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On May 12 2010 01:59 JinMaikeul wrote:
It's not a stigma against competitive gaming so much as it's a stigma for charging people money to teach them how to play a game. This is compounded by the fact that there's no standard by which to measure the credentials of the instructors. Basketball camp is also taken more seriously because basketball is already well established and for those that aren't pursuing it as a profession, it's seen as babysitting to keep your kid out of trouble. You can't compare that with this...
This is so far off base....
First you CAN establish the credentials of the players. Their history in this sport has been well established and proven.
Second every sport is a "game". And every sport has camps charge money.
Seriously look up MMA Training Camps....
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if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
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I think my only question would be about the lodging. From the few vids I've seen from EG, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of sleeping space, especially with another ~15 people+ their computer gear. Are you guys just planning on having people sleep on the floor?
It might be cool to cast a tourney of the people who go on livestream and have have LZ commentate about what they came to the camp wanting to improve and show their progress.
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On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it?
Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts?
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Every single type of serious coaching and training camp is a longterm process. Are you seriously comparing weeks, months or years of training in well established sports to a 3-day stint in a pro-gamer house for a video game that nobody will care about in a decade?
Also no, there is no way to measure their credentials as instructors. Being good at something does not automatically mean you have the ability to teach it. There are plenty of great guitar players. The vast majority would make horrible instructors.
As for the MMA training camp analogy, please find a 3-day training camp that's taken seriously in the MMA industry and I might be inclined to take this analogy seriously...
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On May 12 2010 01:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?
That pretty much sums up your entire post. Just a slew of terrible comparisons. I can't believe you wasted that many words just going from one horrible comparison to the next. Horseback riding can be dangerous and so it would be unwise to learn it yourself. It's nothing at all like learning SC 2.
Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
If someone is going to attend your camp in order to get to Silver then there is something mentally wrong with them.
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On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts?
lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this
because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community
since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right?
what kind of expert am i in this "industry?"
you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching?
im still giggling uncontrollably
...my post count has been brought into this
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On May 12 2010 01:38 atarianimo wrote:
Why is it that even here at TL, the best place for competitive Starcraft, there is still a stigma associated with competitive gaming? If someone was offering a basketball camp for $250, nobody would have a problem with it. Eventually I would like to see Esports taken seriously somewhere other than South Korea, but it simply wont happen if even the most hardcore see it as a joke.
It's most likely seen as a joke as the game is still in beta, the people coaching has yet to prove themselves in SC2 and has never lived as a "pro gamer"(?). If this would happen 1 year after the release of SC2 and with people who have proved to be in the absolute top then I don't think people would find it a joke at least I wouldn't.
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On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this
Check out Rule #6.
Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot.
And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
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On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
Edit because I fail at quotes.
He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond...
Back on topic.
I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part).
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On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
...and you're a forum veteran?
and gamer coaching =/= e-sports
thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA
only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching
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His point was obviously that post count has no correlation to one's knowledge of the industry. Where exactly does RULE #6 refute that?
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On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching
Well if there is no gamer coaching industry, I suppose nobody will sign up.
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Well if I had money to throw away and nothin better to do with it, I'd probably sign up for this with the attitude of going to a fantasy camp...
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I guess most of you against this idea have never played a sport before... because this is exactly what most Football, baseball, basketball, and Soccer sports do.
I've been to numerous 3-4 day camps for Soccer and a few for Football while growing up. You can learn ALOT from working with someone who is better than you at something. Yes, you wont be a pro in 3 days but you can get better. You don't have to be a pro to coach. All of my Soccer coaches and Football coachs at the camps I went to were College level.
I don't see how this is such a big deal. The price is very reasonable. The people hosting it are some of the better gamers in beta, no the best but good. Gosu Gaming has a good history of results.
Why hate on this? I don't understand that. If you don't think it's worth your money, then don't go. I don't think all these negative statements are really justified.
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What I'm hating is not the camp, but the fact that so many people arguing for it are comparing it to legitimate training in established sports to justify their position. This gives people the impression that this is about serious training toward being a professional gamer when it's not. It's essentially a workshop mixed with a fantasy camp for casual players who will probably never be pro-gamers and that's fine so long as you can admit that. I don't believe reminding people of reality is negative. If I said going to Space Camp will not do anything to help you become an astronaut, is that a negative statement? I think I would be helping a few misinformed people save money. Of course anyone else would still be free to go for their own reasons and that's fine so long as they're not going with the wrong impression.
And yes, the price is extremely reasonable.
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Its a good price, if i had an extra 500 dollars to take off work, and and extra 750$ for airfare, and then 250$ for the camp i might consider paying their rent for a month so they dont have to work a low tier job, and i can sleep on the ground for a weekend without gaining any real efficient knowledge since the game is still in its infant form.
oh, also i would sort of like some proof, cause asking for 2 thousand dollars without any sort of indication of where we will lodge, is really shady.
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Stop the hate... If this kinda thing is not for you.. then thats fine.. Leave it at that~ tbh no one cares what surferboi87 thinks.. Blizzard employee's have supported this and so has TL~ like im sure everyone has seen.. this kinda thing is not for everyone but if you guys really going to cry over 250$? You guys should go troll MLG Halo team who makes 2k A PERSON.. YES A PERSON.
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I think it would be a really great weekend with some beer, some stories, and some SC2. I'd go for the fun of it, and being the stellar copper level player that I am (just got my new SC2 computer yesterday), I'm sure I could learn a lot. Heck I just paid about $1,200 for a new comp basically so I could now play SC2, I'd sure pay $250 for an SC2 weekend and sleep on the floor if necessary. Who cares if the trainers aren't the best, or it's in beta, or whatever other hater reason you have. It'll be a nerdilicious great event.
Good luck guys. I will be following your progress. I would sure watch the reality show if you can sell the idea to MTV or another network.
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On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence.
I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills.
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EPT
