• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:16
CET 16:16
KST 00:16
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview3RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion3Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 104
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1235 users

Training Camp in Arizona - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 36 Next All
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 15:07:58
May 11 2010 14:54 GMT
#421
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...
Kegs.aus
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia133 Posts
May 11 2010 14:55 GMT
#422
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Toolshed
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
337 Posts
May 11 2010 15:06 GMT
#423
On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for!

On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious.

Good luck anyway with this project


RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
May 11 2010 15:08 GMT
#424
On May 12 2010 00:06 Toolshed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for!

On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious.

Good luck anyway with this project



In the defense of this thread, gosucoaching is actually quite good, and provided that the pupil has some level of competence in SC2 and other RTS games, gosu can pretty much teach anyone to be better.
Fantus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States14 Posts
May 11 2010 15:25 GMT
#425
On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...

To be fair, Machine made me a high bronze rated player to a mid platinum player in 2 hours. If you understand the game, and hit a wall on how to get better, they can help you through that.
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4339 Posts
May 11 2010 15:25 GMT
#426
On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.

"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750


I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 15:28:01
May 11 2010 15:27 GMT
#427
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.


I actually have the house in my name, and I make sure it's up to female standards. I do have a girlfriend that I have to impress. ^^ (Insert Incontrol quip here: "LOOK GUYZ PSYONIC HAZ GIRLFRIEND!")
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Neak
Profile Joined March 2009
United Kingdom124 Posts
May 11 2010 15:36 GMT
#428
On May 11 2010 23:42 jamesr12 wrote:
I'd say its worth it if you live in the area and dont have to buy a plane ticket, it would be a fun weekend


Indeed
Toast216
Profile Joined April 2010
34 Posts
May 11 2010 15:37 GMT
#429
Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?

Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
May 11 2010 15:39 GMT
#430
What if Blizz takes down the servers for a while during the camp?
shape
Profile Joined December 2009
United States119 Posts
May 11 2010 15:40 GMT
#431
too lazy to read so idk if someone mentioned it but yall should have a like before and after tourny to show improvements from the training
Spidermonkey
Profile Joined April 2010
United States251 Posts
May 11 2010 15:41 GMT
#432
On May 12 2010 00:37 Toast216 wrote:
Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?



Refund, though plane tickets are at your own risk. Buy refundable I guess.

I'm actually planning on signing up for some Gosu Training after launch, I would do it before but I'm worried I would lose to much in the time between Beta Closing and Launch.
~ Richard Trahan
Molkovien
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark59 Posts
May 11 2010 15:43 GMT
#433
The price is quite low, was it anywhere near where i lived i would take the deal. Not like I wouldn't spend the same amount of money on many weekends doing something else silly.
RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
May 11 2010 16:00 GMT
#434
On May 12 2010 00:25 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.

"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750


I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.

I already said in my post that i'm not searching through 20 pages of responses. That is info that should be in post #1
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 16:10:44
May 11 2010 16:01 GMT
#435
On May 11 2010 19:46 Ballistixz wrote:
but the real question is will it be WORTH the price tag there asking for?

basically the stuff they will teach u ins things you can easily learn yourself on your own time. after all how do u think THEY learned? you think some of these top players learned SC from going to countless training camps? no they learned on there own time and with there own skill and you can do the same..


Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?

I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?

In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.

I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.

I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )

Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.

Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
May 11 2010 16:04 GMT
#436
On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days

Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 16:20:35
May 11 2010 16:12 GMT
#437
On May 12 2010 01:04 Jibba wrote:
Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.

This is just a stupid response... The post was speaking to the length of the learning process, not a meaningless debate about cost effectiveness... -_-
atarianimo
Profile Joined June 2007
United States82 Posts
May 11 2010 16:38 GMT
#438
Why is it that even here at TL, the best place for competitive Starcraft, there is still a stigma associated with competitive gaming? If someone was offering a basketball camp for $250, nobody would have a problem with it. Eventually I would like to see Esports taken seriously somewhere other than South Korea, but it simply wont happen if even the most hardcore see it as a joke.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
May 11 2010 16:45 GMT
#439
On May 12 2010 01:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?

I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?

In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.

I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.

I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )

Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.

Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.


For real. Brent is so right here. I don't know what the hell is going on with TL l8ly but everytime someone tries something new and exciting everyone these days is qq'ing.

Would I pay for it if I was trying to become a progamer or just better? Hell yes....

I guess MMA training camps are stupid too. Just get in the cage and figure it out....
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 17:07:03
May 11 2010 16:59 GMT
#440
It's not a stigma against competitive gaming so much as it's a stigma for charging people money to teach them how to play a game that probably won't be a viable profession in 10 years. This is compounded by the fact that there's no standard by which to measure the credentials of the instructors. Basketball camp is also taken more seriously because basketball is already well established and for those that aren't pursuing it as a profession, it's seen as babysitting to keep your kid out of trouble. You can't compare that with this... This is a 3-day program for a game not even released yet. Also there is nothing to suggest that this camp will do anything to further any aspirations you have of being a pro-gamer. If you go, just go for the experience of seeing what it feels like to train like a pro-gamer for 3 days, not under the illusion that this is a major step toward becoming one.
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 36 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12:00
Bonus Cup #1
uThermal533
IndyStarCraft 300
SteadfastSC209
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 533
Lowko480
IndyStarCraft 300
SteadfastSC 209
BRAT_OK 110
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5978
Calm 5325
Rain 3023
Horang2 1533
BeSt 1061
EffOrt 1042
Zeus 572
Rush 409
ggaemo 330
firebathero 272
[ Show more ]
Mong 167
Hyun 122
Mind 98
Aegong 66
zelot 62
Nal_rA 58
Pusan 54
Free 41
Hm[arnc] 40
Shuttle 38
910 35
Barracks 34
JYJ 31
ToSsGirL 27
Sexy 24
HiyA 19
Yoon 19
Terrorterran 15
GoRush 15
SilentControl 14
scan(afreeca) 13
Rock 11
Sacsri 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5098
qojqva2702
syndereN403
XcaliburYe186
Counter-Strike
fl0m1838
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor311
Other Games
Grubby2131
singsing1999
B2W.Neo1363
crisheroes391
Hui .243
Beastyqt225
KnowMe62
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2435
StarCraft 2
WardiTV1133
ComeBackTV 879
Other Games
EGCTV486
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3233
• TFBlade1324
Upcoming Events
AI Arena Tournament
4h 44m
BSL 21
4h 44m
Mihu vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs Sziky
Bonyth vs DuGu
XuanXuan vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs eOnzErG
All-Star Invitational
10h 59m
MMA vs DongRaeGu
herO vs Solar
Clem vs Reynor
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
18h 44m
OSC
20h 44m
BSL 21
1d 4h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 17h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.