• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:55
CET 04:55
KST 12:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy4ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13
Community News
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool21Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win32026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Serral: 24’ EWC form was hurt by military service Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?
Tourneys
[GSL CK] #2: Team Classic vs. Team Solar 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] #1: Team Maru vs. Team herO RSL Season 4 announced for March-April PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever
Brood War
General
JaeDong's form before ASL Gypsy to Korea BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BSL Season 22
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6814 users

Training Camp in Arizona - Page 22

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 36 Next All
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 15:07:58
May 11 2010 14:54 GMT
#421
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...
Kegs.aus
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia133 Posts
May 11 2010 14:55 GMT
#422
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Toolshed
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
337 Posts
May 11 2010 15:06 GMT
#423
On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for!

On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious.

Good luck anyway with this project


RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
May 11 2010 15:08 GMT
#424
On May 12 2010 00:06 Toolshed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!

IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for!

On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious.

Good luck anyway with this project



In the defense of this thread, gosucoaching is actually quite good, and provided that the pupil has some level of competence in SC2 and other RTS games, gosu can pretty much teach anyone to be better.
Fantus
Profile Joined April 2010
United States14 Posts
May 11 2010 15:25 GMT
#425
On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..

Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...

To be fair, Machine made me a high bronze rated player to a mid platinum player in 2 hours. If you understand the game, and hit a wall on how to get better, they can help you through that.
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4341 Posts
May 11 2010 15:25 GMT
#426
On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.

"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750


I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4341 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 15:28:01
May 11 2010 15:27 GMT
#427
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

Show nested quote +
On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.


I actually have the house in my name, and I make sure it's up to female standards. I do have a girlfriend that I have to impress. ^^ (Insert Incontrol quip here: "LOOK GUYZ PSYONIC HAZ GIRLFRIEND!")
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Neak
Profile Joined March 2009
United Kingdom124 Posts
May 11 2010 15:36 GMT
#428
On May 11 2010 23:42 jamesr12 wrote:
I'd say its worth it if you live in the area and dont have to buy a plane ticket, it would be a fun weekend


Indeed
Toast216
Profile Joined April 2010
34 Posts
May 11 2010 15:37 GMT
#429
Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?

Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
May 11 2010 15:39 GMT
#430
What if Blizz takes down the servers for a while during the camp?
shape
Profile Joined December 2009
United States119 Posts
May 11 2010 15:40 GMT
#431
too lazy to read so idk if someone mentioned it but yall should have a like before and after tourny to show improvements from the training
Spidermonkey
Profile Joined April 2010
United States251 Posts
May 11 2010 15:41 GMT
#432
On May 12 2010 00:37 Toast216 wrote:
Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?



Refund, though plane tickets are at your own risk. Buy refundable I guess.

I'm actually planning on signing up for some Gosu Training after launch, I would do it before but I'm worried I would lose to much in the time between Beta Closing and Launch.
~ Richard Trahan
Molkovien
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark59 Posts
May 11 2010 15:43 GMT
#433
The price is quite low, was it anywhere near where i lived i would take the deal. Not like I wouldn't spend the same amount of money on many weekends doing something else silly.
RoosterSamurai
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan2108 Posts
May 11 2010 16:00 GMT
#434
On May 12 2010 00:25 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:
On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:
On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.

On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.

Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.

"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750


I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.

I already said in my post that i'm not searching through 20 pages of responses. That is info that should be in post #1
Psyonic_Reaver
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4341 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 16:10:44
May 11 2010 16:01 GMT
#435
On May 11 2010 19:46 Ballistixz wrote:
but the real question is will it be WORTH the price tag there asking for?

basically the stuff they will teach u ins things you can easily learn yourself on your own time. after all how do u think THEY learned? you think some of these top players learned SC from going to countless training camps? no they learned on there own time and with there own skill and you can do the same..


Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?

I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?

In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.

I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.

I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )

Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.

Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
So wait? I'm bad? =(
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
May 11 2010 16:04 GMT
#436
On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days

Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 16:20:35
May 11 2010 16:12 GMT
#437
On May 12 2010 01:04 Jibba wrote:
Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.

This is just a stupid response... The post was speaking to the length of the learning process, not a meaningless debate about cost effectiveness... -_-
atarianimo
Profile Joined June 2007
United States82 Posts
May 11 2010 16:38 GMT
#438
Why is it that even here at TL, the best place for competitive Starcraft, there is still a stigma associated with competitive gaming? If someone was offering a basketball camp for $250, nobody would have a problem with it. Eventually I would like to see Esports taken seriously somewhere other than South Korea, but it simply wont happen if even the most hardcore see it as a joke.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
May 11 2010 16:45 GMT
#439
On May 12 2010 01:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?

I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?

In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.

I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.

I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )

Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.

Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.


For real. Brent is so right here. I don't know what the hell is going on with TL l8ly but everytime someone tries something new and exciting everyone these days is qq'ing.

Would I pay for it if I was trying to become a progamer or just better? Hell yes....

I guess MMA training camps are stupid too. Just get in the cage and figure it out....
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
LegendaryZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1583 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-05-11 17:07:03
May 11 2010 16:59 GMT
#440
It's not a stigma against competitive gaming so much as it's a stigma for charging people money to teach them how to play a game that probably won't be a viable profession in 10 years. This is compounded by the fact that there's no standard by which to measure the credentials of the instructors. Basketball camp is also taken more seriously because basketball is already well established and for those that aren't pursuing it as a profession, it's seen as babysitting to keep your kid out of trouble. You can't compare that with this... This is a 3-day program for a game not even released yet. Also there is nothing to suggest that this camp will do anything to further any aspirations you have of being a pro-gamer. If you go, just go for the experience of seeing what it feels like to train like a pro-gamer for 3 days, not under the illusion that this is a major step toward becoming one.
Prev 1 20 21 22 23 24 36 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
Code For Giants Cup LATAM #5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 6259
Artosis 344
Sexy 47
Dewaltoss 45
ggaemo 43
Bale 40
-ZergGirl 36
Leta 32
Noble 23
Icarus 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm137
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 669
Counter-Strike
Fnx 1442
C9.Mang0318
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox510
Mew2King122
amsayoshi1
Heroes of the Storm
Trikslyr60
Other Games
CosmosSc2 12
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick849
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream143
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta35
• practicex 15
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki24
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo996
• Rush570
Other Games
• Scarra1907
Upcoming Events
KCM Race Survival
6h 5m
Protoss vs Terran
WardiTV Team League
8h 5m
Big Brain Bouts
13h 5m
LetaleX vs Babymarine
Harstem vs GgMaChine
Clem vs Serral
Korean StarCraft League
23h 5m
RSL Revival
1d 6h
Maru vs Zoun
Cure vs ByuN
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 11h
BSL
1d 16h
RSL Revival
2 days
herO vs MaxPax
Rogue vs TriGGeR
BSL
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Sharp vs Scan
Rain vs Mong
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soulkey vs Ample
JyJ vs sSak
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
hero vs YSC
Larva vs Shine
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Team League
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.