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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
UPDATE WITH NEW DATES
August 4th (a Wednesday) through the 8th (a Sunday) is the new date for our inaugural gosucamp. We figure this is the best time since it is post game release and should be at a time when coaching at this level is most beneficial but also the server is more stable than the beta ever was. Again should blizzard decide to torment us we will refund and accommodate as best as possible. Everyone has been really great through this. Thanks for your continued support!
GOSUCAMP - 250$ to attend
This camp is designed to give individuals the "progamer house" experience. Full immersion training with some of the best RTS gamers in the United States for a long weekend with the end goal of completely revamping, boosting and refining the skills, understanding and overall play level of those that attend. There simply is no replacement for training in person with others that are completely dedicated to giving you the most educational and fun experience possible. GosuCoaching.com is proud to present GosuCamp, a new StarCraft 2 training program that is being offered by four of our coaches, Bryce "Machine" Bates, Kelby "iNkA" Williams, Geoff "iNcontroL" Robinson, and Brent "PsyonicReaver" Schultz in the lovely town of Queen Creek, Arizona.
What can you expect from GosuCamp?
GosuCamp is a 3 day training experience with the best American StarCraft 2 players. You will experience what it is like to live in a ProGamer house and learn all the tips and tricks that enable these players to stay on top. Each day will be 9 hours of lectures, training, and personal one on one time with coaches. This will be a great experience to give you a glimpse into the exciting world of ProGaming.
When is Gosucamp?
The Camp will begin Thursday, June 10th and end Sunday June 13th. Trainees are requested to arrive on Wednesday, June 9th to ensure ample time to recover from travel. Trainees will leave Sunday, June 13th. During your stay at GosuCamp, we will be filming the process so future prospective trainees can know what they are getting into but also so current camp goers can relive the experience. You will be asked to participate in Video Blogs and Interviews. There will also be a cash tournament held on Saturday that will be broadcasted live from the house to an internet stream for all the world to see how the extensive training paid off.
The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking? All of the above? The coaches will work with each person to help them overcome their problems through the course of the morning. Lectures will be given on the basics of the game and how to best utilize your time for this bootcamp. After lunch a review session will be done to determine if the trainee still needs additional advice or if he's ready to move on to another set of goals. Determining efficient build orders? How to have the right army composition? Understanding the purpose of scouting? The coaches will be on hand to help you. Close to the end of the day, there will be a fun inter-Trainee scrim. As a trainee progresses, he may choose how fast or how slow he wants to work on each goal but the coaches DO expect results, they will be watching each Trainee Scrim game closely.
The second day will follow the same review/goal setting. Trainees will scrim vs Coaches at the end of the day.
The third day there will be only a short class session in the morning to help players prepare for the cash tournament.
Schedule [subject to change]
Wednesday
Arrival/Recovery from Travel
Thursday
Wakeup - 9am - 10am
Breakfast - 10am - 10:30am
Introductions/Goals Set/Class Starts - 10:30am - 2:30pm
Lunch - 2:30pm - 3:00pm
Review/Class Starts/Trainee Scrims - 3:00pm - 8:00pm
Dinner - 8:00pm - 8:30pm
Free Time - 8:30pm - Sleep
Friday
Wakeup - 9am - 10am
Breakfast - 10am - 10:30am
Review/Goals Set/Class Starts - 10:30am - 2:30pm
Lunch - 2:30pm - 3:00pm
Review/Class Starts/T's vs C's Scrim - 3:00pm - 8:00pm
Dinner - 8:00pm - 8:30pm
Free Time - 8:30pm - Sleep
Saturday
Wakeup - 9am - 10am
Breakfast - 10am - 10:30am
Last Day Speech/Review/Class Starts/Class Ends/Tournament Starts - 10:30am - 2:30pm
Lunch - 2:30pm - 3:00pm
Tournament Continuation/Tournament Finish - 3:00pm - 8:00pm
Dinner - 8:00pm - 8:30pm
Free Time - 8:30pm - Sleep
Sunday
Goodbyes/Departure
I'm interested, how do I sign up?
Currently we are only accepting 8 Trainees for the first GosuCamp. Each application will be reviewed by the Coaches. You will get an email if you are declined or accepted into the program. If you are declined, don't worry, there will be more Camps in the future for you to participate in. If you are accepted, please ensure your schedule will be clear for the current dates we have selected for GosuCamp to take place on. Communication will continue to find out more about you and if you have allergies/conditions/special requirements, so please keep in contact with us! You must provide your own transportation to Arizona. If you are driving, directions will be given. If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.
Essential Requirements to be considered for Acceptance
A Beta Key. (US is required, other servers are optional to have.)
Must bring your own Computer/Monitor/Mouse/Keyboard.
18+ (Those younger than 18 that want to participate will be reviewed case by case but written consent of your parents must be provided.)
Please email incontrol@gosucoaching.com with a short explanation of who you are, where you are from and why you would benefit most from this program. Please include as much about you as possible.
There obviously will be some questions like pricing, housing arrangements, entertainment etc etc.. but those are left for those that are serious enough to email and inquire. The idea is that we create a fairly regular place that people can travel to where they can receive the kind of training typically reserved for those lucky enough to train in a progamer house or attend high level competitive lans on a regular basis.
In the end, this camp is designed to offer a service to those dedicated to this game and to those that are simply in love with this game. We at gosucoaching.com are really excited. We get to combine our business venture with something that we look forward to each year, competitive lans and training! If you think this kind of camp is something you are interested in, please email us and let us know what questions you have or needs we can fulfill!
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But those players are not the best in America and none of them have ever lived in a progamer house themselves.
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Will players be able to webcam the place, or will there be livestreams of practice matches and such?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 10 2010 17:16 yomi wrote:
But those players are not the best in America and none of them have ever lived in a progamer house themselves.
Yep, hence me saying "some of..." and the house they live in is occupied by 4 competitive SC2 gamers that are on a sponsored team so I will take the liberty to declare that it is indeed a "progamer" house!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 10 2010 17:17 pat965 wrote:
Will players be able to webcam the place, or will there be livestreams of practice matches and such?
Webcamming, recording, taking pictures etc etc.. all those things are fine. We however do have a no fly zone above the house so personal airplanes or helicopters will be asked to remain at home.
We will be offering livestreams of the tourney and perhaps a lesson or two.
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On May 10 2010 17:17 pat965 wrote:
Will players be able to webcam the place, or will there be livestreams of practice matches and such?
Due to the amount of people who will be online at the house I am not sure it would be feasible to have all of them playing and be able to run a livestream off of the same connection, but we will see.
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hmmmm very interesting concept.
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Will people of brown skin tone be able to make it there with out being arrested?
User was warned for this post
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Can I show up to sexually pleasure you guys instead of getting sc training????
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On May 10 2010 17:32 Bigpon86 wrote:
Can I show up to sexually pleasure you guys instead of getting sc training????
yes but that will cost extra
User was warned for this post
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ROfL
Wait how much does this cost?
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This sounds amazing. Welp time to get that job and save up some cash.
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On May 10 2010 17:26 Tomnki wrote:
Will people of brown skin tone be able to make it there with out being arrested?
Will Tomnki Be Able to make it to 100 post's Without being BANNED?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 10 2010 17:41 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:26 Tomnki wrote:
Will people of brown skin tone be able to make it there with out being arrested? Will Tomnki Be Able to make it to 100 post's Without being BANNED?
please read entire OP's before asking q's like that.
I'd love it if you did that outside this thread too <3
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On May 10 2010 17:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:41 Coagulation wrote:On May 10 2010 17:26 Tomnki wrote:
Will people of brown skin tone be able to make it there with out being arrested? Will Tomnki Be Able to make it to 100 post's Without being BANNED? please read entire OP's before asking q's like that. I'd love it if you did that outside this thread too <3
your a Big meanie.
Gl with your camp
User was warned for this post
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That's actually pretty sick, I was thinking about how cool it would be to get a pro house going on for some time in Europe, like a week or something and how beneficial it would be for the players in it. I don't know if 3days will be enough but I wish you good luck with this new adventure, I always love new concepts and ideas and that's the coolest thing I've seen in a while.
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Sounds like a ton of fun, shame I'm a starving undergrad unable to travel 
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 10 2010 17:49 SpiDaH wrote:
That's actually pretty sick, I was thinking about how cool it would be to get a pro house going on for some time in Europe, like a week or something and how beneficial it would be for the players in it. I don't know if 3days will be enough but I wish you good luck with this new adventure, I always love new concepts and ideas and that's the coolest thing I've seen in a while.
Appreciate the kind words sir 
As to the "3 days being enough" of course more is better.. but given the reality of life very few people can afford to take 4+ days off from life and travel to a place where you pay to get trained by RTS gamers! There are some that can obviously, power to them, but this is what we imagine to be the most realistic setup for the time being.
3 days is enough to absolutely sky-rocket an average or lower skilled gamer and it is enough to refine and sharpen as well as boost the above average SC2 gamer.
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Well, I live in the Phoenix area and I'm sure this would be a great time, but I doubt I could afford it.
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Lol its debate camp for gamers. Except only 3 days.
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Sounds like a fun idea worth trying. Pretty brave to attempt something of this magnitude, I hope it goes well, or at the very least, you guys learn enough to try it again in the future.
I hope the community will give you guys support for attempting something like this and not unnecessarily flame and spam this thread. The thread is getting a tad unruly even on the first page.
Good Luck on your endeavor.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 10 2010 18:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Lol its debate camp for gamers. Except only 3 days.
And minus the cocaine, girls, suits and mass smoking.
We do however offer amazing alternative pizza eating methods, 0 sleep giggle fests and more than a little dexter watching.
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sounds like a great idea guys
hope it works out for you. im serious! =D
im from toronto and saving up for my first car so can't really invest in this but i'm looking forward to the blogs/pictures and stories of this event / training=)
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omg this sounds fucking awesome. It'd be worth it just for the experience (if not the training).
Too bad I live on the east coast
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HOLYFUCKINSHIT I WISH I LIVED IN AMERICA
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If this was produced like an MTV reality show, one of the guests would wake up on the first morning to find that someone had shit in his shoe during the night. Then we the audience would feel a rainbow of emotions watching that character try to pay attention to the training and actually improve at SC2 while never being able to figure out which other person in the house had actually done it.
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It should be like Jersey Shore, only with more starcraft and less guidos
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Bet it's going to be lovely, but I'm too too far away!
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On May 10 2010 18:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 18:02 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Lol its debate camp for gamers. Except only 3 days. And minus the cocaine, girls, suits and mass smoking. We do however offer amazing alternative pizza eating methods, 0 sleep giggle fests and more than a little dexter watching.
not even rapist girls? I'm so out.
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On May 10 2010 18:27 Mellotron wrote:
If this was produced like an MTV reality show, one of the guests would wake up on the first morning to find that someone had shit in his shoe during the night. Then we the audience would feel a rainbow of emotions watching that character try to pay attention to the training and actually improve at SC2 while never being able to figure out which other person in the house had actually done it.
I will be much more evil.
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wow crazy, good luck for ur project ^^
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You should make it into a reality show.
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would understand if it was IdrA and the other high profiled gamers.. but this?.. ^^
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that sounds like a lot of fun
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Man why do I live in Europe when stuff like this happen in the US.
Will you guys start something like this in Europe (with top Europe players)?
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BOOOOOOOOOOOTCAMP!
Sounds fun - though I won't be able to attend with living in switzerland n' stuff... ^^'
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for all of you in Europe maybe if this is a success it will encourage someone in Europe to do something similar for you guys
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United States42695 Posts
On May 10 2010 18:55 Nosferatos wrote:
Man why do I live in Europe when stuff like this happen in the US.
Will you guys start something like this in Europe (with top Europe players)?
I think there was one in the Ukraine last year.
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This sounds bloody awesome, I'd be keen because I know you guise are all awesome as. God dammit, living in New Zealand. ;-;
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On May 10 2010 18:50 naniwa wrote:
would understand if it was IdrA and the other high profiled gamers.. but this?.. ^^
Inka, incontrol, and Machine aren't high profile enough for you? I mean cmon man, they may not be as good as IdrA and White-Ra but they're still damn good and definitely strong enough to be able to teach a lot of useful things to 99.9% of the Starcraft population.
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On May 10 2010 19:43 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 18:50 naniwa wrote:
would understand if it was IdrA and the other high profiled gamers.. but this?.. ^^ Inka, incontrol, and Machine aren't high profile enough for you? I mean cmon man, they may not be as good as IdrA and White-Ra but they're still damn good and definitely strong enough to be able to teach a lot of useful things to 99.9% of the Starcraft population.
The OP used "some of the best" when they are none of the best, so I can understand that reaction.
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51455 Posts
omg nerd house is really turning into a pseudo-reality tv show
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I applied. Sounds like fun.
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Looks pretty sick. If you want to really get better, you'll play against anyone better than yourself.
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I'm kinda interested. But I don't think I'd benefit as much as others because I have no plans on becoming a competitive sc2 player.
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Canada5565 Posts
I think it's way a bit too early for this, no one is truly good at the game yet.
The idea is awesome though and I hope I see more of it in the future!
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Is there a reason for not naming price? Is it so people don't flame you for having it be expensive? Should call mtv for this. Might actually watch.
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I wish i was American lol but seems like a nice event you better record it and stream and shit
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On May 10 2010 20:46 CagedMind wrote:
Is there a reason for not naming price? Is it so people don't flame you for having it be expensive? Should call mtv for this. Might actually watch.
This is exactly what I was wondering. Although more along the lines of people flaming the people for paying that price, not so much them for asking it.
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its a trap!
j/k looks really nice i wish i could participate! ^^
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On May 10 2010 19:43 QuothTheRaven wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 18:50 naniwa wrote:
would understand if it was IdrA and the other high profiled gamers.. but this?.. ^^ Inka, incontrol, and Machine aren't high profile enough for you? I mean cmon man, they may not be as good as IdrA and White-Ra but they're still damn good and definitely strong enough to be able to teach a lot of useful things to 99.9% of the Starcraft population.
I totally agree.
I think it's a great idea, from a business standpoint, but also because of the fact that you know it would be a blast hanging around with everyone all in the same house, having tourneys and practice sessions.
The lectures and structured lessons could either be totally awesome at best, or, at worst, a bit on the boring side. But you can guarantee that it will be a pretty fun experience regardless.
Also, who knows, the experience might encourage a new team, or more, to form, based on players' experiences in the training camp. And this would definitely benefit eSports.
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I have zero interest in doing something like this, but the idea is awesome. I support the concept completely. I'm as curious as the others, though. Why not state the price? You'd have to wade through a lot less applications of people who wouldn't be willing to pay the amount required. It'd save a lot of your time.
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I wonder how the conversation will go:
lil' Jonny: Hey mom, can I have $2k?
Mom: What for?
lil`Jonny: I need to go train for my video game, with a bunch of adults i met on the internet. Don't worry they're pro.
Mom: ...
I don't see how one would learn more at this camp than from watching replays, practicing, and reading TL. Perhaps these guys should shut down the strategy section to increase the value of their boot camp
I'm sure the progamer experience and the ability to see your starcraft idols are worth the price of admission.
edit: Is that Naniwa mtwNani? 3-0'd Jinro last zotac. Learn from his zerg FE block lol.
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This is pretty ridiculous and awesome at the same time.
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Will, so korean Pr0Players, could become as good as they are playing at their homes without any coach guide . . .<sarcasm off>
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I would attend, but they won't let me fly over to Arizona with my wooden shoes!  . GL with it...
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wtf, ESPORTS is creating business!
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incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so...
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I like the entrepreneurship part of it and wish you best of luck but seriously I hope no one pays for this.
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Not to be negative but do these things actually work? I have always been against these kinds of things, if you can't get good on your own then you probably won't be able to stay competitive. This is coming from more of an FPS background where I have seen ridiculousness like Gears of War and Halo 3 classes and training. If you don't have the time and skill to put into the game you will never be a top player.
Unless I have this all wrong and people are shelling out all this money just to beat up their friends or whatever, that is fine too and I am sure these types of things work great for that. Have there been any pro gamers that came out of something like this? I can't think of any in any game really. Again not trying to bring this down, just opening up a little discussion.
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Boohoo why isn't this happening in South London
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On May 10 2010 21:35 AmstAff wrote:
incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so...
There's nothing wrong with someone being willing to pay a skilled and well known player to teach them. But there's probably better ways to go about it.
A round trip ticket to Arizona + lodging seems overpriced. Have you guys thought about liability in the case an accident occurs to a minor?
edit: Maybe using video conferences would be a better idea?
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8 lucky nerds will finally lose their virginity...streamed live from ARIZONA
P.S. GL to any Hispanic entrants...bring ID!
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Such a waste of time and money. For 1 the mechanics in starcraft 2 are easy, 2 the strategy is relatively simple, 3 none of these guys are even that good (as in they never actually win anything...).
Its just a giant nerdfest that incontrol is putting together to try and scam people out of their money.
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I had 2 hour lessons with Machine, well worth it imo considering I'd expect to play the game for years and years.
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guys you are aware that is is heavily rumored that SC2 beta will go offline on June 10th....right? I mean...thats gonna screw up a lot of things. You all should wait until retail is out. And push this to August,
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On May 10 2010 22:00 Tinithor wrote:
Such a waste of time and money. For 1 the mechanics in starcraft 2 are easy, 2 the strategy is relatively simple, 3 none of these guys are even that good (as in they never actually win anything...).
Its just a giant nerdfest that incontrol is putting together to try and scam people out of their money.
Yeah, SC2 is such a simple game. I remember when SCBW was big, back in the day, but I knew better. I finally convinced everyone how little strategy was involved, and it died off pretty soon. Good thing Command & Conquer took Korea by storm, and that it has such a lasting impact.
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Don't make the mistake!
It's a huge difference between playing and teaching. The experience is more important. Furthermore i highly doubt that idra is capable of teaching someone.
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United States42695 Posts
On May 10 2010 21:46 Adeeler wrote:Boohoo why isn't this happening in South London
If you pay for my train ticket and put me up for the night I'll teach you for beer and pizza.
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Great to see that business spirit! For people that think this would be a waste of money then don't buy it. Your opinion on what is worth someone elses time and money is completely invalid. I happen to love sherbert, if you hate sherbert its a waste of time and money...hurrrp de derrp The only way this could be a scam is if they don't deliver on their promises of improving someones play. If they do then the relative value of the project is up to each individual buyer, not some random internet opinion.
Good luck guys, I hope it works out for you and your customers are satisfied. Vids of how it goes down could be really interesting too!
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On May 10 2010 17:16 yomi wrote:
But those players are not the best in America and none of them have ever lived in a progamer house themselves.
You dont have to be the best player to be a good coach. take example in soccer , you have sometimes good coaches wich never played in their live competetive soccer but still very good coaches. i think it's the right step in the pro direction, i think it's unfair to critizize people wich are trying to bring a more proffesional approach to the game.
You also learn faster from other people who are committed like these guys are. i dont understand the hostility from some people here . Who are they and they never won a tournament. Do you think in the Korean team houses the coaches are better players then the players they coach? If the coach would be better then the player , he wouldn't be coaching but playing.
A copper league player could coach a platinum player if he knows the game and has the grasp to analyze the mistakes a player does, points them out and makes the other player practice them.
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This might turn out to be quite epic as we get the see the videos of it, question still remains.. is SC2 a difficult enough game to actually be worth using money on to be teached by players who has played the game for 2-3 months? I don't know
Still, it would probably be a pretty entertaining experience to live with these guys for a weekend
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can i just drive up to Queen Creek every day? XD only like 30 minute drive.
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On May 10 2010 18:30 Skypes wrote:
It should be like Jersey Shore, only with more starcraft and less guidos
As someone who lives in New Jersey... This.
'We gave Geoff's nickname a nickname... "The Situation"... because he's always In Control of The Situation. ::cut scene to new Viking Gel and Infestor Mousse products:: '
Good luck fellas! This sounds like an awesome idea :-)
Hopefully this will be a huge success!
I'd apply if I didn't have graduate school classes this summer :-/
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I find it funny that someone who plays beta version of a game for couple of months actually thinks that he is in situtation to ask for money when sharing some tips. From what I´ve seen, all of the teachers there are probably cool guys but this seems kinda ridiculous to me. However I dont know how much money they want and in the end if people who pay for that get better than good for them.
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On May 10 2010 17:41 Coagulation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:26 Tomnki wrote:
Will people of brown skin tone be able to make it there with out being arrested? Will Tomnki Be Able to make it to 100 post's Without being BANNED?
I don't think so, Tim.
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This is a cool idea and im sure you'l get a great turnout, but it feels a little early in the beta to teach people... Waiting till release would be ideal imo.
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On May 10 2010 23:43 BDF92 wrote:
early in the beta to teach people... Waiting till release would be ideal imo.
What they're teaching includes good practice habits, work ethic, how to learn from replays/mistakes, etc. etc. None of it's contingent on balance and there's no real need to wait.
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If i lived in US i would love to sign up!
Any chance of bringing this to Canada?
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Even though I'd say I'm pretty close to the player's levels that would hold this event, I still say that it would be worth it to go simply for all the new knowledge and experience you could acquire on this event. These guys aren't new to the competitive RTS scene and have a better idea of whats going on then 99% of sc2 players.
Unfortunately I have not come across a large sum of money and will most likely not be able to do this fabulous event.
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awww... i wish i live in azn T__T... my gf lives there and im in canada T__T
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Haha, awesome. GL HF with this project, guys.
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Love the idea guys. When I get the money, i might have to look into this
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GL to all those who participate, looks like fun
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Sounds fun ^_^.
It would be awful if the beta ends before those days though.
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On May 11 2010 00:19 Studah wrote:
Sounds fun ^_^.
It would be awful if the beta ends before those days though.
That is a very good point!
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On May 10 2010 21:49 willeesmalls wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 21:35 AmstAff wrote:
incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so... There's nothing wrong with someone being willing to pay a skilled and well known player to teach them. But there's probably better ways to go about it. A round trip ticket to Arizona + lodging seems overpriced. Have you guys thought about liability in the case an accident occurs to a minor? edit: Maybe using video conferences would be a better idea?
the points is that no one can teach you how to macro / multitask. you can only learn it by doing /playing. yes they can tell you to use shortcuts and while fighting to not forget producing, but that are hints for that i wouldnt pay money and that hints wont help you unless you train it yourself.
with his 3 day statement he makes it sound like:
"hey pay me and im gonna make your skill in micro 2 times better and if you want i make your macro 3 times stronger"
its like i would start selling water and would claim that this is special skill water and makes your micro 10 times better and all you have to do is pay me 20$ and drink it.
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On May 11 2010 00:53 AmstAff wrote:
the points is that no one can teach you how to macro / multitask. you can only learn it by doing /playing. yes they can tell you to use shortcuts and while fighting to not forget producing, but that are hints for that i wouldnt pay money and that hints wont help you unless you train it yourself.
with his 3 day statement he makes it sound like:
"hey pay me and im gonna make your skill in micro 2 times better and if you want i make your macro 3 times stronger"
its like i would start selling water and would claim that this is special skill water and makes your micro 10 times better and all you have to do is pay me 20$ and drink it.
In what other discipline can you NOT learn something from someone better than you? People are just not used to seeing coaching in such a new medium. If I told you I was going to tennis camp with Blake for 3 days you wouldn't bat an eye.
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will you guys protect me from the man? i am an illegal immigrant
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It is a neat idea. Hopefully it goes well. It doesn't really matter that it is beta, the stuff that they seem to teach you is pretty generic to the game(and other RTS') and will not change a whole lot from now and release. You cannot be good if you do not have the fundamentals down (Micro/Macro/Multi tasking the two).
Good luck with this!
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Wonderful idea. I really wished i live in the US
To those complaining on the level of the teachers: Just wake up, every single name in the OP's teacher list is legendary.
Good luck & have fun
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I would so completely do this if I wasn't 14. Fuck me.
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I think it's sort of interesting. Even if you went to a lan with better players than you, you're bound to learn some things. But then you don't pay people for the privilege of lanning with them for a weekend so I guess it comes down to the price.
A newbie could probably learn a huge amount with the right kind of hands on training by an experienced player. But then they could also just be the most uncoordinated person in the world and just not being able to physically play.
It's really an unproven method right now. Most people who are good at one kind of video game are good at them all. Maybe they are skills you can't teach if you don't have them. And if you did have them, you probably don't need this since the resources on builds/strategies/decisions are freely available elsewhere.
Needless to say, interesting to see how it works out
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 10 2010 20:24 randomKo_Orean wrote:
so how much is it again?
So why don't you disclose the price?
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needs more slush (zerg coach), huk (toss coach), and cauthonluck (terran coach)
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On May 11 2010 01:27 Pokebunny wrote:
I would so completely do this if I wasn't 14. Fuck me.
but i can't.. you're 14. you need to say "no, no, don't worry, i'm 18". i fall for that one everytime
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On May 10 2010 21:35 AmstAff wrote:
incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so...
This is just a more expensive version of gosu coaching. People seem to be paying for that, a lot of people...
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On May 11 2010 01:37 Ruthless wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 21:35 AmstAff wrote:
incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so... This is just a more expensive version of gosu coaching. People seem to be paying for that, a lot of people...
Don't be such a downer - you can't honestly say it wouldn't be cool to learn tips and tricks to micro around your units, multitask, etc. from a very strong player standing literally over your shoulder.
It probably seems worth it to only a tiny minority of players, but still gotta say i wish I could do it.
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United States42695 Posts
Inc has inspired me to set up a European alternative to this for those of you who would go to Arizona if they could.
Anyone English speaking in Western Europe, if you pay my transport, give me a bed, beer and pizza I will come to you bearing a beta key and teach you to be plat sc2. This includes people who have never played sc2 and just want to try it out. I get to see random places and people with free beer and you get better at sc2.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
A couple things that apparently need to be said:
1. Price is private. I didn't want a 15 page discussion nit-picking the price and what it entails when it really is none of your business. If you are interested in going, we will obviously discuss. It is incredibly modest for a 72 hour crammed coaching session involving a tourney, lodging, food, transportation etc.. so I didn't think it necessary. Frankly I don't think a lot of you should obsess over it since I know for a fact that you aren't interested in participating.
2. Please stop obsessing over "this is a beta." This game will launch with an EXTREMELY similar build to this beta. People who are receiving training or working at the game now are going to benefit. We don't see tourney threads filled to the brim with "this is just a beta, this is retarded" because that would be stupid. So why then, when threads discuss training or (o m g!) receiving compensation to help others train, does this come up? I'd ask that you please try and minimize that discussion since the reasons are already known: A lot of people in the SC community are extremely against paying money for anything in the community.
This isn't the first SC camp to be offered. This will be the most successful SC(2) camp to be given however. Encourage people for once, stop hating. If you have community members so serious they are willing to travel and pay a fee to be trained, great! If you have community members so serious they are willing to organize, and open the doors to their house and coach people for 3 days, great! Why hate?
3. Nope we ain't the best. Nobody said we were. But until you see a house of better SC2 nerds offering the same business I don't see how this is an issue? If you are winning all the SC2 tourneys and we cannot offer you anything then by all means, state as much. To the others, you probably could benefit and should stop being a negative nancy for the "benefit" of others.
4. As a final note, please please please give this plea a ear: We aren't evil. We don't sit around and think about scamming, or giving people less for their money so we can run to the bank and cash our massive checks. We want to do good by the community. We are excited that SC2 has come and is growing our world. Please allow us that opportunity and help us.. it will only help "you" and this community.
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I'd consider it if I didnt live an entire continent away. At the very least just to see all you crazy EG kids I know and love (except Louder, he knows what he did >:[ )
beats the crap out of archery and arts and crafts.
Also people keep in mind that pro teams in north america don't get the financial support they do in Korea. Things like this are productive and creative ways for progamers to use their talents and keep doing what they love. Overall it will help eSports in the west.
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On May 11 2010 00:04 Whiplash wrote:
Even though I'd say I'm pretty close to the player's levels that would hold this event, I still say that it would be worth it to go simply for all the new knowledge and experience you could acquire on this event. These guys aren't new to the competitive RTS scene and have a better idea of whats going on then 99% of sc2 players.
Unfortunately I have not come across a large sum of money and will most likely not be able to do this fabulous event.
lol stop dodging me
User was warned for this post
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I hope this thing turns into a huge success so it can spread to other places... like Canada. ^.~
ESPORTS.
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I still want to know the price. I'm really curious how much something like this might cost.
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On May 11 2010 01:56 Jyvblamo wrote:
I hope this thing turns into a huge success so it can spread to other places... like Canada. ^.~
ESPORTS.
Canadian eSports... We can only hope...
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i'd go even without the sc2 training part just to hang out with some of the nice peeps of TL.net for some nice nerd experiences...
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nice idea behind it, but i think anyone who actually goes for this is kinda of silly ;]
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On May 11 2010 02:12 dahornnn wrote:
nice idea behind it, but i think anyone who actually goes for this is kinda of silly ;]
I dunno if I get into grad school in Phoenix I would consider it.
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will there be others not in arizona?
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Pretty cool idea, I'm sure it will be a lot of fun for whoever is willing to pay/travel.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him.
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Sounds quite fun. I'd totally go if this was in SoCal.
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![[image loading]](http://www.blogto.com/upload/2007/10/apartment590.jpg)
So people are gonna crash with you in your overcrowded apartment to learn how to play a video game somewhat effectively?
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On May 11 2010 02:21 Beyonder wrote:
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him.
Right ^^ because this program is meant for Korean progamers, dont think they mentioned that anywhere hehe
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On May 11 2010 02:33 SeriousGamer wrote:So people are gonna crash with you in your overcrowded apartment to learn how to play a video game somewhat effectively?
great first post..not
seriusly people this is just an offer, if you dont like it just say to yourself, no thanks, and leave the thread, i dont see why there is so much hate. no one is forcing you to do this. wow,
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On May 11 2010 02:21 Beyonder wrote:
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him.
I'm sorry but this is so damn hilarious. Beyond derailing the thread, I think this is meant more for the players entering the scene who would really like to get better, but even watching streams can't seem to help... Then again, I'm sure these guys could teach a Korean gamer the true meaning of America (pizza, beer, etc.)
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On May 11 2010 01:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
We aren't evil.
Bullshit, you guys are EG, and may I remind you what EG stands for? I believe the word Evil stands for the E. Your claim is definite not a fact!
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On May 11 2010 02:21 Beyonder wrote:
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him.
the whole Korean scene will change to attack Assimilators and Cybernetics Cores instead of probes
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Haha this is so good.
EDIT: I can't actually tell if your trolling or not.
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Wow this sounds awesome, gj in arranging this kind of event!
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This sounds sweet, I wish I could attend.
However, what if the Beta closes before the date? I heard somewhere that the EU beta closes on May 27th, so I'd anticipate the US one will follow shortly afterwards.
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On May 11 2010 02:38 rei wrote:Bullshit, you guys are EG, and may I remind you what EG stands for? I believe the word Evil stands for the E. Your claim is definite not a fact!
epic win
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Interesting, I definately live in Phoenix.
Hmmmmm.
I cant tell if this is for newbie players or hardcore players looking to gain an edge.
Incontrol, if I bring some cervezas may I observe for an hour or two????????? on the training day?????
Beer Bitch For the win???
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On May 11 2010 01:43 KwarK wrote:
Inc has inspired me to set up a European alternative to this for those of you who would go to Arizona if they could.
Anyone English speaking in Western Europe, if you pay my transport, give me a bed, beer and pizza I will come to you bearing a beta key and teach you to be plat sc2. This includes people who have never played sc2 and just want to try it out. I get to see random places and people with free beer and you get better at sc2.
lolol how serious are you? :p might be interested when my exams are done :p
Getting to skip the entire "wtf am I doing?" phase might be nice.
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I'm sure Ganfei have posted in this thread.
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First off, I am interested to see how this works out for you guys. I think it's a reasonably neat idea, and perhaps foreshadowing of more and longer versions of the same thing. One thing that does slightly concern me, though we're talking about 18 year olds (whether or not that means adults, I don't know), is the influence that you guys can have over trainees. Essentially, I'll be interested in seeing how exactly you go about coaching various people. There are very subtle cues that you guys can give off that could impact someone in a very negative way (given the context of them respecting you enough to come to your camp). That said, if performed effectively, I can see this as a powerful utility for some players.
Another thing that does surprise me is that 8:30-11:30 is not scheduled time too, going for the full scale progamer house experience. I really think you might have some potential in a 3 day span if you tried to cram *more* of the time with playing than the standard house schedule (which I think is 9 hours) until the last day where people play less. 1. people would develop stamina and have experience playing a LOT of games. 2. When people leave that tournament, they're going to want to go home and keep practicing.
idk, I've got about 8 other ideas, but, this is your thing
Good luck
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very cool idea - what's the price on this looking like though?
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thats so cool  i wish i could go but sadly i have a bunch of crap i gota do, school, work, etc :\
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As someone who runs his own business I wanted to salute your entrepreneurship and wish you the best of luck. I suspect they will have no trouble filling their eight slots. People spend thousands of dollars on golf trips or vegas trips etc doing things they love so it is not that unfeasible that people who love SC would spend money on a trip/experience like this.
Good luck!
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I would but I'm boycotting Arizona because its a fascist state.
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On May 11 2010 02:44 Kojaimea wrote:
This sounds sweet, I wish I could attend.
However, what if the Beta closes before the date? I heard somewhere that the EU beta closes on May 27th, so I'd anticipate the US one will follow shortly afterwards.
We are looking into this, we had no idea it would be closing so early.
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United States42695 Posts
On May 11 2010 02:48 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 01:43 KwarK wrote:
Inc has inspired me to set up a European alternative to this for those of you who would go to Arizona if they could.
Anyone English speaking in Western Europe, if you pay my transport, give me a bed, beer and pizza I will come to you bearing a beta key and teach you to be plat sc2. This includes people who have never played sc2 and just want to try it out. I get to see random places and people with free beer and you get better at sc2. lolol how serious are you? :p might be interested when my exams are done :p Getting to skip the entire "wtf am I doing?" phase might be nice.
100% serious. I wanna do random shit this summer but I'm skint. Apparently being good at sc2 is a marketable skill so I thought I'd put it out there.
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Woah, if I could go I would be just like HyungJung! :D
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i applied for this, even though i live in australia. i feel i'd be a good candidate for this sort of thing. i know my geography will probably ensure that i don't get a look in but you won't see a falling star if you're not looking into the skies, right?
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On May 11 2010 03:07 k!llua wrote:
i applied for this, even though i live in australia. i feel i'd be a good candidate for this sort of thing. i know my geography will probably ensure that i don't get a look in but you won't see a falling star if you're not looking into the skies, right?
are you loaded?
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sadly, no. i'm still interested to see if i'd be a viable candidate, geography aside.
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Reminds me of what that one halo 3 team does with their dr. pepper sponsored house, sounds like good times.
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It's a shame you live in Queen Creek. It's the remote wasteland of the Phoenix metro area, and in the middle of June, you're going to be having fun with the 105-110 F temps and nowhere to go without driving an hour back to town.
But Starcraft players don't have fun. They just sit at the computer with the air conditioning blasting, so I guess it all works out in the end.
Do you at least have a swimming pool?
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On May 11 2010 02:40 finalboss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 02:21 Beyonder wrote:
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him. the whole Korean scene will change to attack Assimilators and Cybernetics Cores instead of probes
This, LOL
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I really hope it works out for you guys. Seeing Esports big in the U.S is something i'd love and am waiting to see.
I'm too short on money to even think about trying to participate, but if you guys actually keep this going i'll be sure to sign up at another time.
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Spill the beans, how much are you squeezing these suckers for?
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On May 11 2010 03:19 Liquid.Snakes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 02:40 finalboss wrote:On May 11 2010 02:21 Beyonder wrote:
I'm paying a Korean progamer to go just to see what you're going to teach him. the whole Korean scene will change to attack Assimilators and Cybernetics Cores instead of probes This, LOL
Yeah, this is really funny lol
Nonetheless, I still think they'd do a great job.
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Reminds me of Str8 Camp they do for Halo 3 MLG
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 03:01 Machine[USA] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 02:44 Kojaimea wrote:
This sounds sweet, I wish I could attend.
However, what if the Beta closes before the date? I heard somewhere that the EU beta closes on May 27th, so I'd anticipate the US one will follow shortly afterwards.
We are looking into this, we had no idea it would be closing so early.
The only info out there is they want to close the beta a month early.
release date is july 27
June 10th-12th is NOT a month early.
If it does close we'd refund those that paid and move on to after SC2 launch
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The price being private doesn't make much sense to me. It is a pretty dishonest way to go about doing business as well considering you could be offering different prices to each individual depending on how much you think they'll pay. It must be pretty high if you're not willing to announce it. I don't fault you guys for trying to make money from your hobby but this seems more like a way to take advantage of younger newbs who look up to guys like you (people that are known in the community) than it is an opportunity to get better at the game.
Then again, I've always thought people who spent money on RTS coaching were basically throwing their money away when they can get any information you give them (plus more) for free with 30 minutes of patient googling. It's a pretty clear issue considering if we took a poll of every progamer in the world, how many do you think paid for lessons? I think the people who go will have fun but it's sad to think of the people paying money just so they can hang out with "known" players.
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Korea (South)11580 Posts
so you guys are turning Rekrul and ilnps joke training camp into the real deal?
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Calgary25980 Posts
I can't offer you money, but I can give you unlimited access to my TL account for the 3 days. What do you think?
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ROFL Nerds :D
Get a real job
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Its honestly a fantastic idea, wonder how much the people are going to be paying for this. I live around the area so I could always pretend to be the pizza guy and walk in... "HAY IZ DAT SC2B!? NICE!!"
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Good lord people. Why so much hate. This obviously isn't for everyone, but for a lot of people it would be a great experience. Just becasue you think it is a waste of time/money doesn't mean it won't be for someone else. I think it sounds fun. Good luck with it guys.
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Price revealed at $250.
Surprised.
Good.
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On May 11 2010 03:12 k!llua wrote:
sadly, no. i'm still interested to see if i'd be a viable candidate, geography aside.
I'm sure they'll take anyone who can pay. It's your money on airfare, visa/passport, and whatever fee they charge. From their end it's the same as if you lived down the street.
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If you want to go there to learn a whole lot more about the game, then it's not worth the money it'll probably require.
If you want to go there for 'some of the experience of living in a pro house', hang out and stuff, then go ahead, but I hope you're rich.
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This is just my opinion, but I think that gosucoaching should give tl.net a part of their profits or something, because it's feeding PROFIT from the community of tl.net with their direct advertisements which seems to have little intention of improving the community.
I mean it's direct advertisement for an 'organization' that is meant to make profit, and which isn't really doing anything out of charity. Just because it has 'starcraft' in it's name doesn't mean we should let all the advertisement slide IMO. I'm 100% cool with advertising donations to send a brood war player to WCG or something, I'm cool with advertising tournaments such as ESL, TSL etc but this isn't cool IMO. Now, I don't know how much they're asking for this gosucamp themselves, and how much profit they're planning to make. For all I know it could be a really fair deal, where the hosts make very minimal profit and everyone had a great time, but I seriously doubt that.
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sounds like a pretty sweet idea. How much are you charging?
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Why did they choose to locate this in Arizona? I can't think of a worse place inside the US.
Edit: Racist law, high ambient temperatures, neither on either coast nor in the midwest.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 03:54 Ahzz wrote:
If you want to go there to learn a whole lot more about the game, then it's not worth the money it'll probably require.
If you want to go there for 'some of the experience of living in a pro house', hang out and stuff, then go ahead, but I hope you're rich.
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This is just my opinion, but I think that gosucoaching should give tl.net a part of their profits or something, because it's feeding PROFIT from the community of tl.net with their direct advertisements which seems to have little intention of improving the community.
I mean it's direct advertisement for an 'organization' that is meant to make profit, and which isn't really doing anything out of charity. Just because it has 'starcraft' in it's name doesn't mean we should let all the advertisement slide IMO. I'm 100% cool with advertising donations to send a brood war player to WCG or something, I'm cool with advertising tournaments such as ESL, TSL etc but this isn't cool IMO. Now, I don't know how much they're asking for this gosucamp themselves, and how much profit they're planning to make. For all I know it could be a really fair deal, where the hosts make very minimal profit and everyone had a great time, but I seriously doubt that.
Excuse me. But you know we run 2 weekly tourneys and a weekly showmatch that are ALL geared towards the community right?
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Didn't know David "The Maven" Chicostky played sc2.
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Will you pay the flight from Finland to there?
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On May 11 2010 04:05 Welmu wrote:
Will you pay the flight from Finland to there?
..why even ask this? This is a camp you pay to go to, not the other way around.
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the more sc-player populated colleges and universities should just turn their dorms into this imo
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On May 11 2010 04:00 Zealotdriver wrote:
Why did they choose to locate this in Arizona? I can't think of a worse place inside the US.
Edit: Racist law, high ambient temperatures, neither on either coast nor in the midwest.
It's where most (all?) of them live.
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Anyone thinking of taking up this offer, please do not forget to pack your birth certificate if you are of any other race than Caucasian. Thank you Arizona, for setting the world back 45 years.
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i may just be silly but... couldn't find a price for this...
how much is it?
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Gah Arizona is so far away from Ohio, and I have like zero money right now. If anyone wants to pick be up from Cincinnati and take me there, and pay for whatever of the cost I can't earn/win in the next three weeks, I'm in . I also think you guys should offer followup coaching as part of the deal, assuming the price is high, it wouldn't hurt to give people who came free followup online coaching to help them continue to improve.
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Did that include a night with Machine ?
<3 Machine
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Do any of the coaches play terran?
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On May 11 2010 04:13 RyanRushia wrote:
i may just be silly but... couldn't find a price for this...
how much is it?
Mods need to come down hard for not reading threads, this is a pretty rampant issue.
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Good idea but the timing is, IMO, going to be an issue. The beta could end at anytime and making arrangements to fly to Arizona could be costly to participants if they do not buy cancellation insurance.
I also think you would have more people biting on this opportunity, perhaps 2 or 3 bookings worth of people, if you decided to wait until after official launch. Alot of WoW kiddies are going to be entering the scene looking for an easy way to get the experience and it seems like you could easily capitalize off that customer base. If you think about how much WoW gold gets bought everyday, the money is going to be spent somewhere if SC2 becomes a leading eSport.
As far as not disclosing the cost of such a weekend, I think it is an error. If people have no clue as to the cost, the amount of people becoming interested in the service would be alot lower than if there was at least a ballpark amount known. People have money and want to spend it without the hassle of receiving a "quote", you have to open the avenue for them to spend it on your services.
The last thing is that importing players to your home to play on their SC2 beta key is against the terms of use. A pillar of a good business is following the laws upheld in the country as well as respecting other business's rights to their property.
"1) copy of the Game for your use on one (1) computer which you own or control at your place of residence for the purpose of testing the Game."
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Austin10831 Posts
To be honest, Inc, I think you're inviting more grief than you're avoiding by not disclosing any pricing information. I think by releasing atleast a ball-park figure, you might find that you'll generate more interest instead of less, as those who are unsure about costs will almost certainly assume on the side of a prohibitive number.
I think many people in this thread are looking at this the wrong way. You can't quantify how much something like this will make you "better" at SC2. They're not going to guarantee that you'll be 20% better at micro or 30% faster while macroing. I think the premise of this "camp" is that you'll arrive, get to play SC2 in a unique environment, benefit from the experience of players better than you, and generally have a nice, fun time for a weekend (assuming you have the type of personality that's compatible with the EG guys).
I don't think it is (or atleast, should be) intended as some sort of boot-camp, where they mold you into a super-soldier, but rather more like space camp, where you're not coming out the other end as an astronaut, but just as someone who had an enjoyable experience.
A bunch of you seem to be laughing at the apparent absurdity of the idea, but I'd wager that the vitality of esports could certainly benefit from more people trying some "absurd" ideas.
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Very interesting concept, I really hope you guys can pull this off and make it a regular thing, you seem to be putting a lot of effort into this whole coaching initiative, and seeing it pay off would probably encourage a lot more people to give it a try.
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On May 11 2010 04:25 Rabbet wrote:
Good idea but the timing is, IMO, going to be an issue. The beta could end at anytime and making arrangements to fly to Arizona could be costly to participants if they do not buy cancellation insurance.
I also think you would have more people biting on this opportunity, perhaps 2 or 3 bookings worth of people, if you decided to wait until after official launch. Alot of WoW kiddies are going to be entering the scene looking for an easy way to get the experience and it seems like you could easily capitalize off that customer base. If you think about how much WoW gold gets bought everyday, the money is going to be spent somewhere if SC2 becomes a leading eSport.
As far as not disclosing the cost of such a weekend, I think it is an error. If people have no clue as to the cost, the amount of people becoming interested in the service would be alot lower than if there was at least a ballpark amount known. People have money and want to spend it without the hassle of receiving a "quote", you have to open the avenue for them to spend it on your services.
The last thing is that importing players to your home to play on their SC2 beta key is against the terms of use. A pillar of a good business is following the laws upheld in the country as well as respecting other business's rights to their property.
"1) copy of the Game for your use on one (1) computer which you own or control at your place of residence for the purpose of testing the Game."
About the last point, they are supposed to bring their own PC to the event. I am not sure if this copyright point applies.
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I went to a gas station/convenience store yesterday to buy some cheetos. I asked the store clerk "how much are these cheetos?" He looked at my worn nikes, white hanes shirt with holes in it, and 5 year old blue jeans and stated "50 cents." I thought it was weird that he gave me a look over before stating the price but I chalked it up to me being very attractive and him being a possible homosexual.
I stayed around to look at the magazine section and to possibly entice a date from the store clerk. I always liked pudgy blondes who are bodybuilding hobbyists.
I noticed a well dressed businessman fill up his bmw with premium gas. I remember him because I thought "wow me and him are so different. I'm relaxing and poor and he's hurried and rich. I have no stress and he's loaded with it." He went up to the counter to pay for his gas.
As he was walking out a bag of cheetos caught his eye. It was the same exact kind that I purchased. I thought "wow I guess we have some similarities." The businessman gave the cheetos to the clerk with no care as to price. The clerk immediately said "two fifty please."
Long story short, the clerk was incontrol.
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On May 11 2010 04:33 SeriousGamer wrote:
I went to a gas station/convenience store yesterday to buy some cheetos. I asked the store clerk "how much are these cheetos?" He looked at my worn nikes, white hanes shirt with holes in it, and 5 year old blue jeans and stated "50 cents." I thought it was weird that he gave me a look over before stating the price but I chalked it up to me being very attractive and him being a possible homosexual.
I stayed around to look at the magazine section and to possible entice a date from the store clerk. I always liked pudgy blondes who are bodybuilding hobbyists.
I noticed a well dressed businessman fill up his bmw with premium gas. I remember him because I thought "wow me and him are so different. I'm relaxing and poor and he's hurried and rich. I have no stress and he's loaded with it." He went up to the counter to pay for his gas.
As he was walking out a bag of cheetos caught his eye. It was the same exact kind that I purchased. He gave it to the clerk with no care as to price. The clerk immediately said "two fifty please."
Long story short, the clerk was incontrol.
Borderline offensive but funny nonetheless.
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On May 11 2010 01:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
A couple things that apparently need to be said:
3. Nope we ain't the best. Nobody said we were.
On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
GOSUCAMP
This camp is designed to give individuals the "progamer house" experience. Full immersion training with some of the best RTS gamers in the United States.
Anyhow, besides Incontrol's obligatory self contradiction this actually sounds really neat and if anyone's willing to pay for it I bet it would be a hell of a fun experience.
And go Kwark! Travel the world, living a simple and modest life free of all possessions except pizza and beer while teaching others the way of the Beta.
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On May 11 2010 04:33 SeriousGamer wrote:
I went to a gas station/convenience store yesterday to buy some cheetos. I asked the store clerk "how much are these cheetos?" He looked at my worn nikes, white hanes shirt with holes in it, and 5 year old blue jeans and stated "50 cents." I thought it was weird that he gave me a look over before stating the price but I chalked it up to me being very attractive and him being a possible homosexual.
I stayed around to look at the magazine section and to possibly entice a date from the store clerk. I always liked pudgy blondes who are bodybuilding hobbyists.
I noticed a well dressed businessman fill up his bmw with premium gas. I remember him because I thought "wow me and him are so different. I'm relaxing and poor and he's hurried and rich. I have no stress and he's loaded with it." He went up to the counter to pay for his gas.
As he was walking out a bag of cheetos caught his eye. It was the same exact kind that I purchased. I thought "wow I guess we have some similarities." The businessman gave the cheetos to the clerk with no care as to price. The clerk immediately said "two fifty please."
Long story short, the clerk was incontrol.
Simply beautiful
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On May 11 2010 04:33 SeriousGamer wrote:
I went to a gas station/convenience store yesterday to buy some cheetos. I asked the store clerk "how much are these cheetos?" He looked at my worn nikes, white hanes shirt with holes in it, and 5 year old blue jeans and stated "50 cents." I thought it was weird that he gave me a look over before stating the price but I chalked it up to me being very attractive and him being a possible homosexual.
I stayed around to look at the magazine section and to possibly entice a date from the store clerk. I always liked pudgy blondes who are bodybuilding hobbyists.
I noticed a well dressed businessman fill up his bmw with premium gas. I remember him because I thought "wow me and him are so different. I'm relaxing and poor and he's hurried and rich. I have no stress and he's loaded with it." He went up to the counter to pay for his gas.
As he was walking out a bag of cheetos caught his eye. It was the same exact kind that I purchased. I thought "wow I guess we have some similarities." The businessman gave the cheetos to the clerk with no care as to price. The clerk immediately said "two fifty please."
Long story short, the clerk was incontrol.
I am surprised a gas station clerk could care so much about pricing out the items for the customer instead of letting the computer do the work. Oh and I am glad to hear the BMW driver was putting in the right gas for his car.
I don't know why people are crying about the location. It is their house, it is not like they are a huge company(yet) that can just set up shop in some random town while renting out a building for a weekend(Well they can but the price would be a lot higher). It is a good idea, you won't be an expert but you will also get to witness how they play in person, and learn a thing or two(or more) from them to improve your game.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The price is 250$ as an entry fee.
We will raise this in future camps.
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![[image loading]](http://i25.tinypic.com/4g5gty.jpg)
I'll just leave this here.
All the best to those hosting and those going.
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On May 11 2010 04:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The price is 250$ as an entry fee.
We will raise this in future camps.
lol you gave in, eh? I do think that it's fair to post it.
That's really not a bad price, IMO. If you're serious about getting better in SC2, and if you think that this camp can really improve your skill, that is. Hopefully, people will be able to make the time and money commitments! I think you guys are doing a great thing :-)
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Sounds like a great idea.
I do love the irony of flamers calling them nerds while being members of an SC2 site though. 
Cheers, can't wait for the streams!
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250$ Entry Fee ....
Does that mean there's a 100$ Lodging Fee + 55$ Coaching Fee + 149$ Other Services Rendered Fee + 5% Tax?
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On May 11 2010 04:56 Norway wrote:
250$ Entry Fee ....
Does that mean there's a 100$ Lodging Fee + 55$ Coaching Fee + 149$ Other Services Rendered Fee + 5% Tax?
Learn to math.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:58 Megalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 04:56 Norway wrote:
250$ Entry Fee ....
Does that mean there's a 100$ Lodging Fee + 55$ Coaching Fee + 149$ Other Services Rendered Fee + 5% Tax? Learn to math.
He's afraid that there's other fees along with the $250 entry fee.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Nope. It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.
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250$ is nothing £150 not sure on the exhange rate at the moment for 3 days with a professional. £50 a day, not many people would get out of bed for that.
Great idea guys wish you luck.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 11 2010 04:39 Crissaegrim wrote:I'll just leave this here. All the best to those hosting and those going.
roflwaffles this was awesome, god bless Gary Larson
250 aint bad for any 3day nerd event imo, food and lodging plus they pick you up at the airport?
Sweet deal
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Well, considering this is 72 hours, and Machines hourly rate is $20/hour, I'd say this is a pretty good deal.
Not to mention the experiences you could have.
I mean, I once paid 400 bucks for a train ticket to go to PAX with a couple of my friends in Seattle. You know what we did when we got there? Hung out and played StarCraft: Brood War. This is really quite awesome, in my opinion.
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Yeah. First I didnt like the idea that much. But considering the price its really cool. Seems like they are definitely doing it for the comunity...
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Actually Geoff, we have all meals included in that price. If you don't want to eat our food, you're more then welcome to purchase your own food. We have several stores near us.
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I was going to ridicule you for this initiative by saying stuff like you're leveraging your minor reknown in a tiny community for profit by exploiting the gullible. You're prostituting yourself to the friendless, etc. But now that the price has been revealed, it doesn't seem that bad. Good luck.
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Wish I could go...
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Hell for $250 I'd do it if not for the fact I live on the east coast. Machine is my boy I'd love to sit down and learn from him.
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On May 11 2010 04:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The price is 250$ as an entry fee.
We will raise this in future camps.
For 275$ can I get a chance at machine in the octagon?
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Honestly $250 isn't bad. You get roughly 4 days of gaming. Most 5 day sessions at a Summer Camp run about the same.
6 days at Camp Woodward average about $900, so look at other offers like this before crying foul on the price.
If I wasn't married w/kids I'd probably go. $250 isn't that much and it sounds fun. I also love how people see a little bit about Arizona on CNN and claim that the entire state is racist. For as culturally diverse as these forums are we sure are quick to jump on stereotypes.
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If I lived near I might consider it
and if I had money. I really think it would be a fun and educational experience.
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When I clicked on this thread I thought about the recent article where the journalist pretends to be gay and then goes to a Training Camp to get himself straight that was located on the outskirts of Phoenix.
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On May 11 2010 05:15 HalfAmazing wrote:
I was going to ridicule you for this initiative by saying stuff like you're leveraging your minor reknown in a tiny community for profit by exploiting the gullible. You're prostituting yourself to the friendless, etc. But now that the price has been revealed, it doesn't seem that bad. Good luck.
Dude, I have many friends, and I'm married, but I guarantee you that if I wasn't in the military and I was allowed to just up and leave my state, I would be there in a heartbeat.
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I really love this idea, especially the stream coverage and everything. It's like a small lan fest, where you have good time and you also learn a lot from other gamers. I hope we see more of this in the future.
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Also, I think this could really hit big for eSports in the US. I really think you guys should try to hit up a local news station or something and tell them what you're doing. Anything to get the eSports scene a boost.
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$250 is very reasonable. If I were living in Arizona I would consider. Probably would learn something and if not it would at least be a fun time :p
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What a neat idea, i hope you guys GL
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You should list exactly who is participating. Give us their current level and then show us what they're at post-camp. I'm curious to see if there will be any players who know what they're doing attending.
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On May 11 2010 05:35 willeesmalls wrote:
You should list exactly who is participating. Give us their current level and then show us what they're at post-camp. I'm curious to see if there will be any players who know what they're doing attending.
That is my job as the Cameraman. I'll be documenting the whole thing.
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Calgary25980 Posts
On May 11 2010 04:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The price is 250$ as an entry fee.
We will raise this in future camps.
Seems like a really fair price.
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On May 11 2010 05:21 Spidermonkey wrote:
I also love how people see a little bit about Arizona on CNN and claim that the entire state is racist. For as culturally diverse as these forums are we sure are quick to jump on stereotypes.
We're making fun of the state, not the citizens. Don't make the same mistake you are claiming we are making ;] (Though you guys sure fucked up picking your governor!)
$250 is a fair price in my opinion, I'm sure all the people there will have a good time.
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I wish you guys the best, between this and gosucoaching, I hope you guys succeeds. Which would also be a good indication that starcraft2 will be way more than a game.
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Vatican City State5 Posts
Does the fee include DDR lessons from inControl? :D
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I would certainly love to attend, however the distance is just too great for me. I can't even imagine how much it would cost to fly my rig to Arizona. I would really love to play with some of the top tier players and learn from them, hopefully more of these events occur. Hopefully there is an event on the East Coast I could attend at some point.
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Completely agreed on the price deal: very, very fair. If I could drop life for a week and come, I would, just for the experience. Anyway, hope it goes well.
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$250? Are you kids serious about building a business or not? Don't listen to the criticism about having a high price, you have to relate your price to the value and $250 translates to very little value. I don't get off the couch for $250, let alone have strangers come to sleep in my house, eat my food and give away valuable knowledge. A market is a market, and I do believe there is a market for your services just like there is a market for mine.
If this is just a hobby for you, I understand. If it is just a hobby you are better off just giving the spots away, making people pay for their own meals and having fun with it - because $2000 split between you all is just beans, especially considering your spending a week of your lives to fulfill the program.
You are progamers and I know you to be good at what you do, but if you want some serious business advice PM me and I'll tell you what I think would make your business work.
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On May 11 2010 05:47 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 04:39 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
The price is 250$ as an entry fee.
We will raise this in future camps. Seems like a really fair price.
It is a fair price.
The cost of commuting from wherever someone is will be the real issue.
As much as I think this concept is early and shoudl be done after its retail release, the price is the last thing people should be arguing with.
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Assuming there's 4 pros that would be 500$ each for three days, not amazing but possible and could be a great start.
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On May 11 2010 06:00 Rabbet wrote:
$250? Are you kids serious about building a business or not? Don't listen to the criticism about having a high price, you have to relate your price to the value and $250 translates to very little value. I don't get off the couch for $250, let alone have strangers come to sleep in my house, eat my food and give away valuable knowledge. A market is a market, and I do believe there is a market for your services just like there is a market for mine.
If this is just a hobby for you, I understand. If it is just a hobby you are better off just giving the spots away, making people pay for their own meals and having fun with it - because $2000 split between you all is just beans, especially considering your spending a week of your lives to fulfill the program.
You are progamers and I know you to be good at what you do, but if you want some serious business advice PM me and I'll tell you what I think would make your business work.
![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/dmcja0.jpg)
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On May 11 2010 06:00 Rabbet wrote:
$250? Are you kids serious about building a business or not? Don't listen to the criticism about having a high price, you have to relate your price to the value and $250 translates to very little value. I don't get off the couch for $250, let alone have strangers come to sleep in my house, eat my food and give away valuable knowledge. A market is a market, and I do believe there is a market for your services just like there is a market for mine.
If this is just a hobby for you, I understand. If it is just a hobby you are better off just giving the spots away, making people pay for their own meals and having fun with it - because $2000 split between you all is just beans, especially considering your spending a week of your lives to fulfill the program.
You are progamers and I know you to be good at what you do, but if you want some serious business advice PM me and I'll tell you what I think would make your business work.
Holy internet, batman. Let me guess, you're also a lawyer magician superhero?
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his only regret is that he has boneitis
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Pretty cool and $250 seems super cheap. I was thinking it would be quite a bit more, but as a fairly experimental event this might be fine. I hope this goes well and we see more events like this in the future. Cool shit.
Thinks makes me want to offer private lessons -- you can sleep on my roommates couch and eat their food and I'll teach you SC2 stuff. (not serious)
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United States42695 Posts
On May 11 2010 06:00 Rabbet wrote:
$250? Are you kids serious about building a business or not? Don't listen to the criticism about having a high price, you have to relate your price to the value and $250 translates to very little value. I don't get off the couch for $250, let alone have strangers come to sleep in my house, eat my food and give away valuable knowledge. A market is a market, and I do believe there is a market for your services just like there is a market for mine.
If this is just a hobby for you, I understand. If it is just a hobby you are better off just giving the spots away, making people pay for their own meals and having fun with it - because $2000 split between you all is just beans, especially considering your spending a week of your lives to fulfill the program.
You are progamers and I know you to be good at what you do, but if you want some serious business advice PM me and I'll tell you what I think would make your business work.
lol
Find a guy willing to pay more and I'm sure they'll thank you for it. When most their potential clients are college kids with more important things to spend money on I think $250 is somewhat more realistic. But hey, maybe you know better. Who would be willing to offer $2000 for a spot?
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On May 11 2010 03:02 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 02:48 KlaCkoN wrote:On May 11 2010 01:43 KwarK wrote:
Inc has inspired me to set up a European alternative to this for those of you who would go to Arizona if they could.
Anyone English speaking in Western Europe, if you pay my transport, give me a bed, beer and pizza I will come to you bearing a beta key and teach you to be plat sc2. This includes people who have never played sc2 and just want to try it out. I get to see random places and people with free beer and you get better at sc2. lolol how serious are you? :p might be interested when my exams are done :p Getting to skip the entire "wtf am I doing?" phase might be nice. 100% serious. I wanna do random shit this summer but I'm skint. Apparently being good at sc2 is a marketable skill so I thought I'd put it out there.
hahaha I think I would actually do this if I was still living by myself.
But now I think it would be a bit weird if I told my flat mates "oh yeah btw. this dude from the UK is coming tomorrow to teach me sc2 for some days lulz"
Anyways, people need to stop bitching, 250$ certainly seems like a fair price
And rofl at the "oohhh these people arent that good"
Thats like saying "Why would I take guitar lessons from YOU, shitty Joe Satriani?! Yngwie Malmsteen is a way better guitar player."
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This would be so cool and awesome and just freaking awesome to go to, but flying over to the states, with a PC would cost like a bazillion dollars(
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On May 11 2010 06:07 RANDOMCL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 06:00 Rabbet wrote:
$250? Are you kids serious about building a business or not? Don't listen to the criticism about having a high price, you have to relate your price to the value and $250 translates to very little value. I don't get off the couch for $250, let alone have strangers come to sleep in my house, eat my food and give away valuable knowledge. A market is a market, and I do believe there is a market for your services just like there is a market for mine.
If this is just a hobby for you, I understand. If it is just a hobby you are better off just giving the spots away, making people pay for their own meals and having fun with it - because $2000 split between you all is just beans, especially considering your spending a week of your lives to fulfill the program.
You are progamers and I know you to be good at what you do, but if you want some serious business advice PM me and I'll tell you what I think would make your business work. Holy internet, batman. Let me guess, you're also a lawyer magician superhero?
I'm an HVAC technician.
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On May 11 2010 04:36 Chrispy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 01:48 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
A couple things that apparently need to be said:
3. Nope we ain't the best. Nobody said we were. Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
GOSUCAMP
This camp is designed to give individuals the "progamer house" experience. Full immersion training with some of the best RTS gamers in the United States.
Anyhow, besides Incontrol's obligatory self contradiction this actually sounds really neat and if anyone's willing to pay for it I bet it would be a hell of a fun experience. And go Kwark! Travel the world, living a simple and modest life free of all possessions except pizza and beer while teaching others the way of the Beta.
they said they are the best in the USA, not in the entire beta. please read
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United States42695 Posts
On May 11 2010 06:14 unkkz wrote:This would be so cool and awesome and just freaking awesome to go to, but flying over to the states, with a PC would cost like a bazillion dollars (
If only there were some way it could come to you for the price of a return plane ticket from the UK and food.
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Gotta give them credit; its not like EG is paying them a salary/if they are its probably not big.. So they are trying to come up with other ways to make money for SC, such as that website and this. If I treated SC more like a "career" rather than just a hobby (a hobby that I wish I could quit, need to focus more time on my real career ie Music) then Id do the same thing.
It is somewhat related to guitar lessons I suppose, and I can tell you all that when I was in college for music, I had to pay $50 for an hour lesson, and this wasnt from guys like Satriani or whatever, just the top Jazz guitarists in eastern Canada (so its comparable to how InControl would be to the US). So $250 for a week is not bad at all.
Finding people who are willing to pay any money at all for SC training is the hard part, its not like theres really a chance they can become the next Nony or Idra, and anyone who already has RTS talent probably understands that going there and paying money wont help them to get much better than if they just spent 11 hours a day playing on ladder/vs top players.
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Seems like theres a bunch of players in USA better than these 5.. huk , telecom 2-0'd inc, cauthon, many others..
W/e 250 is worth it if u don't like training alone.
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On May 11 2010 06:26 VarsityUser wrote:
Seems like theres a bunch of players in USA better than these 5.. huk , telecom 2-0'd inc, cauthon, many others..
W/e 250 is worth it if u don't like training alone.
250 is definitely worth it if it includes a man hug from Inc.
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I think the best location for a real "Starcraft Training camp" in north america would be in Montreal, where the old Play/XD's cafe was.. They have probably the best collection of top north american gamers located around there, may not have Nony but its arguable that everyone else in Montreal/quebec/surround areas can compete with any EG member/etc.
It'd be cool to get something going on there, like a house to just practice all day with eachother, not a "pay us money and we'll show you the basics" program.. It could really bolster their play.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
I thought 250$ was really cheap as well when I first heard it.
I hope the the beta duration issues work itself out and that everyone involved has a really good time when it does happen. I can vouch for the fact all these guys are fun to be around and of course skilled gamers. <3
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On May 10 2010 21:35 AmstAff wrote:
incontroll is really trying to make money by doing nothing. lets see how many idiots he will find.
"The first day of training, the coaches will go over with each individual the personal goals they want to accomplish the next three days. Better Macro? Micro? Multi-tasking?"
seriously... i dont know what to say, this is just so...
All these "video gaming coaching" stuff is always a scheme.
This is like a "pretend you are good at SC2" fantasy camp.
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On May 11 2010 00:56 Sent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 00:53 AmstAff wrote:
the points is that no one can teach you how to macro / multitask. you can only learn it by doing /playing. yes they can tell you to use shortcuts and while fighting to not forget producing, but that are hints for that i wouldnt pay money and that hints wont help you unless you train it yourself.
with his 3 day statement he makes it sound like:
"hey pay me and im gonna make your skill in micro 2 times better and if you want i make your macro 3 times stronger"
its like i would start selling water and would claim that this is special skill water and makes your micro 10 times better and all you have to do is pay me 20$ and drink it. In what other discipline can you NOT learn something from someone better than you? People are just not used to seeing coaching in such a new medium. If I told you I was going to tennis camp with Blake for 3 days you wouldn't bat an eye.
see, theres a physical component there, where it makes sense for you to travel there.
What can they do here that they couldn't just tell you online. Practice games? Scrims? Telling you to macro?
A sucker is born every minute though
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On May 11 2010 02:51 Precipice wrote:
First off, I am interested to see how this works out for you guys. I think it's a reasonably neat idea, and perhaps foreshadowing of more and longer versions of the same thing. One thing that does slightly concern me, though we're talking about 18 year olds (whether or not that means adults, I don't know), is the influence that you guys can have over trainees. Essentially, I'll be interested in seeing how exactly you go about coaching various people. There are very subtle cues that you guys can give off that could impact someone in a very negative way (given the context of them respecting you enough to come to your camp). That said, if performed effectively, I can see this as a powerful utility for some players.
Another thing that does surprise me is that 8:30-11:30 is not scheduled time too, going for the full scale progamer house experience. I really think you might have some potential in a 3 day span if you tried to cram *more* of the time with playing than the standard house schedule (which I think is 9 hours) until the last day where people play less. 1. people would develop stamina and have experience playing a LOT of games. 2. When people leave that tournament, they're going to want to go home and keep practicing.
idk, I've got about 8 other ideas, but, this is your thing
Good luck
I'm pretty sure thats because even the coaches don't want to spend all day doing =p
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can ya push it to friday/sat/sun instead of thurs/fri/sat ? :D
jk i'm kinda interested in this.
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On May 11 2010 06:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 00:56 Sent wrote:On May 11 2010 00:53 AmstAff wrote:
the points is that no one can teach you how to macro / multitask. you can only learn it by doing /playing. yes they can tell you to use shortcuts and while fighting to not forget producing, but that are hints for that i wouldnt pay money and that hints wont help you unless you train it yourself.
with his 3 day statement he makes it sound like:
"hey pay me and im gonna make your skill in micro 2 times better and if you want i make your macro 3 times stronger"
its like i would start selling water and would claim that this is special skill water and makes your micro 10 times better and all you have to do is pay me 20$ and drink it. In what other discipline can you NOT learn something from someone better than you? People are just not used to seeing coaching in such a new medium. If I told you I was going to tennis camp with Blake for 3 days you wouldn't bat an eye. see, theres a physical component there, where it makes sense for you to travel there. What can they do here that they couldn't just tell you online. Practice games? Scrims? Telling you to macro? A sucker is born every minute though
A lot of people could figure most things out for themselves. However, I have some friends that I play with that I have given a TON of advice to. They would never have gotten to the level they are at now for months without somebody helping them. People that can't make it to platinum are definitely missing something that could be figured out with a few days at gosu camp.
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Cool event but very costly one
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It sounds like a really cool idea that I'd like to try out (RL gets in the way). For what they're offering the price seems inexpensive.. but it's probably really good to start small to figure things out and work out the kinks.
To respond to an earlier critique, maybe EG could write out / make videos for all the content they want to share... but the advantage, I assume, of having everybody there is that the coaches can physically see what you do, how you do it, etc., and from that make valuable coaching advice specifically tailored to the trainee. I suppose they could sorta do the same thing with webcams, but then they wouldn't get the advantage of the multiple trainees meeting and learning from each other. This sort of vertical and horizontal teaching is really very common, I think. It is what you can't get from general online vids.
I wish GosuCoaching all the best on their first camp
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Hmm I'd like to ask a thing before wasting someone time reading an application that doesn't fit.
Getting an US beta key isn't really a problem, but let's say coming from europe there, I don't know how it works for bringing the pc.Granted I totally could get a laptop that can run sc, that would still be a little troublesome.
I'm really interested in this, I didn't take the lessons for sc:bw from incontrol since I had a pretty early beta access, and decided to focus on that, but this seems awesome.Plus I kinda already had a plan to come somewhere in US this summer...So enlighten me, usually if you need to bring heavy stuff there how it works? I know I'll probably won't be accepted anyway. still asking, got nothing to lose really.(Know that my pc is a full tower+ 24'' screen so that is a bit troublesome to move around, I have an old machine, but I don't think it'll ever run smooth sc2...)
I hope if that isn't feasible someone here in europe starts something like this, I'm getting involved in promoting e-sports here where I live but atleast I need to not suck too much, or either people won't take me serious.Plus I really love starcraft *_*
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On May 11 2010 06:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:
see, theres a physical component there, where it makes sense for you to travel there.
What can they do here that they couldn't just tell you online. Practice games? Scrims? Telling you to macro?
A sucker is born every minute though
There are tons of things that u can do in person much faster than u could online, and its overall more efficient. You can show some1 how to have better keyboard/mouse control as well, which u can't really do online at all.
IMO practicing IRL is significantly better than online and its also a lot more fun.
The only thing I would be concerned about is becoming overly dependent on help from others to grow and improve. At some point, you have to be able to identify your own faults, create your own builds and exploit your opponents weaknesses without being explicitly told by someone how to do these things. This is only for top level play though.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On May 11 2010 01:36 ilnp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 01:27 Pokebunny wrote:
I would so completely do this if I wasn't 14. Fuck me. but i can't.. you're 14. you need to say "no, no, don't worry, i'm 18". i fall for that one everytime
LOLOL
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On May 11 2010 06:54 Bad_Attitude wrote:
Hmm I'd like to ask a thing before wasting someone time reading an application that doesn't fit.
Getting an US beta key isn't really a problem, but let's say coming from europe there, I don't know how it works for bringing the pc.Granted I totally could get a laptop that can run sc, that would still be a little troublesome.
I'm really interested in this, I didn't take the lessons for sc:bw from incontrol since I had a pretty early beta access, and decided to focus on that, but this seems awesome.Plus I kinda already had a plan to come somewhere in US this summer...So enlighten me, usually if you need to bring heavy stuff there how it works? I know I'll probably won't be accepted anyway. still asking, got nothing to lose really.(Know that my pc is a full tower+ 24'' screen so that is a bit troublesome to move around, I have an old machine, but I don't think it'll ever run smooth sc2...)
I hope if that isn't feasible someone here in europe starts something like this, I'm getting involved in promoting e-sports here where I live but atleast I need to not suck too much, or either people won't take me serious.Plus I really love starcraft *_*
Honestly flying from Europe to this event seems like a little much, I would just buy their coaching off gosucoaching.com if you are interested. If it was part of a much longer trip and when they had more established camps or w.e, but traveling across the world for this to a new country as part of a summer vacation is a little out there.
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On May 11 2010 06:41 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 00:56 Sent wrote:On May 11 2010 00:53 AmstAff wrote:
the points is that no one can teach you how to macro / multitask. you can only learn it by doing /playing. yes they can tell you to use shortcuts and while fighting to not forget producing, but that are hints for that i wouldnt pay money and that hints wont help you unless you train it yourself.
with his 3 day statement he makes it sound like:
"hey pay me and im gonna make your skill in micro 2 times better and if you want i make your macro 3 times stronger"
its like i would start selling water and would claim that this is special skill water and makes your micro 10 times better and all you have to do is pay me 20$ and drink it. In what other discipline can you NOT learn something from someone better than you? People are just not used to seeing coaching in such a new medium. If I told you I was going to tennis camp with Blake for 3 days you wouldn't bat an eye. see, theres a physical component there, where it makes sense for you to travel there. What can they do here that they couldn't just tell you online. Practice games? Scrims? Telling you to macro? A sucker is born every minute though
When I was getting into WoW Arena I had some friends who's 5s team was top 10 on Bloodlust. They tried to explain things to me over vent, and I got better, but when I went up to spend the weekend with them and they were able to see me play... well they were able to give me better advice.
Seeing how someone types moves their hands, what they watch on the screen, it's all so much different than just watching them play in game.
It's fine if you don't like this idea. However there have been "computer" summer camps for 20 years. Don't be so quick to hate or judge. When I was 10, some 20 years ago, my parents paid $300 for me to spend a week at computer camp. The camp counselors knew less about computers than I did and no one thought it strange at the time.
Look at Camp Woodward. 10 years ago no parent would have sent their kid off for a week to learn how to skate or bmx better. Now, even at $1000 for 6 days, it is a huge success. No matter what you feel about this business venture it is a positive step for eSports and making it popular in the US.
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Good luck getting ahold of them =P
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Just wanted to post my two cents since I can't go through all 13 pages atm. Seems like a great idea for those that want to do it and have the money to spend. If people enjoy themselves and get some knowledge then there's really nothing wrong with it. People have blown money on way worse things.
My only concern would be the date you guys chose. It's probably been said in this thread but, beta is going to end at some point and people seem to think that it'll be on June 11th for a variety of reasons including the start of the World Cup at that point. It would truly suck if beta were to end on the first day of the camp. I just think you guys might be cutting it a bit too close. I'd try to get on the horn with Blizzard and find a definite date to the end of beta.
Wish you guys luck
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
For those that can't make this one: We will do more in the future. This is our experimental run.
I am thoroughly excited. I look at that schedule and nearly laugh since I know we won't be going to sleep by 12 or w/e, we obviously will continue playing until 4 am.. that is how lans work. Additionally, we will have an amazing time. SC nerds are the best people to hang with and doing this with an added emphasis on training is going to be amazingly fun for everyone involved.
I appreciate all the kind words btw.
These kind of things always polarize a lot of people. I've been doing "this" for what, almost a year now, and people still assume that I am scamming or bad because I lose sometimes. I'd like you to find a student that hates my guts or thinks they were robbed. You have a sample pool of some 200+ people LITERALLY that have taken multiple hours with me and done my training. If you can find one that thinks it's a complete waste I will be impressed.
Please give these things a chance and encourage the growth.
We are already being contacted by sponsors who want to turn this into an expo like event in the future where there are prizes, swag etc.. pretty neat.
This community can help us grow it or it can spend time nit-picking and hating on the entrepreneurs.
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yeah it's a bit troublesome but really, I like the idea, and I can do that totally.Hell I could even get there, buy a pc, and just sell it again there to not bring it back again, only that seems a bit extreme.You know, I never spend money on anything(I mean anything, sometimes I cut even off from food, I just take what it's necessary to survive) so spending some shitload crazy amount of money to do silly things on the other side of the world could be nice once in a lifetime.
Also on the "practical part" I thought on the online coaching, but I think "de visu" it's always better.You know, when I'm here I tend to think "I should be using more than 4 control groups" but then, who cares, I just smash noobs in gold league, and still not improve, because no one is really there helping with that.
also I've never been there and I'd love to move there to work if every plan I have here fails.I live in italy, in the infamous L'Aquila, so basically I'm the land of nowhere, after an earthquake, and trying to get some e-sports work here, and generally in italy, maybe a good vacation there to see how things works could help...but yeah I'll say it again, I really REALLY hope someone does something like this here in europe.Or that I find a way to get there, and be accepted in the camp :D.
(sorry If sometimes I seem to post without a coherent logic but I'm kinda K.O. today...)
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I'm one of the people who applied. Since I see a lot of people going "you can just do this by yourself at home for free", I figured I'd toss in why.
I was lower-platinum in the past resets when I was laddering (gold this reset, but barely played ladder). So I'm not going there expecting to get insanely better or any thing. Someone said something to the extent of "this could be done with a weekend of eight hour gaming sessions with good players" and they're probably right. However, of the 14~ people I play SC2 with, none are really better than me. So that's not always an option for people.
Even with that aside, even if I don't get better at all, that's not really my main interest. This simply sounds fun. $250 + airfare isn't THAT much. I have no other obligations on those dates. Even if this is little more than a glorified LAN party with special guests, that sounds like $250 worth of entertainment. If I get a bit better at SC2 in the process, all the better. If I don't, it'll have been a more interesting experience than sitting at home playing SC2 by myself.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I've addressed the date issue a number of times but I guess I will do it again, sure it could end on that day, and that would suck, we think given school schedules/weekend timing that this date is fine because Browder has said "1 month before the launch" which is july 27th, so June 12th should be fine for the end of our camp.
If they close out the beta 15 days early we'd do the best we could to handle only having 3 days of a 4 day camp o-O but I think we'd manage.
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Think; this is almost free money for them. It doesn't really matter what price. They were going to be play SC most of the day anyways lol
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Will Hyungjoon be there?! :O
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No replys to my beer bitch offer
TT
What if im the food runner???
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I've got nothin' but love for the nerd house, I wish i could go..What happened to Psyonic? I haven't seen or heard from him in forever.
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Interesting idea, but I get burned out after about 8-10 hours of playing (usually saturday) that I don't touch the game till evening on Sunday.
This is not for the weak of heart.
Price is pretty reasonable, too, considering a 3 day room WITH food can run you around 200 bucks.
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On May 11 2010 03:42 Legendary- wrote:
Its honestly a fantastic idea, wonder how much the people are going to be paying for this. I live around the area so I could always pretend to be the pizza guy and walk in... "HAY IZ DAT SC2B!? NICE!!"
I feel like the pizza guy trick won't work on Psyonic.
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I wish you guys at EG, the best of luck. I am sure many people will like what you guys are doing and may even try to do something similar. I look forward to some of the recordings, I hope none of you guys go drinking though...lol...It would be funny to see a full house of nerds, drunk off their ass. XD
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On May 10 2010 18:55 Nosferatos wrote:
Man why do I live in Europe when stuff like this happen in the US.
Will you guys start something like this in Europe (with top Europe players)?
lots of exclusive things happen in europe too that we americans get left out of :/
i just can't think of anything atm! hehe :p
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On May 11 2010 07:09 PanzerDragoon wrote:
Think; this is almost free money for them. It doesn't really matter what price. They were going to be play SC most of the day anyways lol
I don't watch movies in theaters because the movie plays whether I'm there or not.
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This is an awesome idea. Priced to be fairly accessible too. Hoping this is a great success and that there will be more to come in the future.
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good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative
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On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative
tbh I would never go if it was a bunch of 'progamers'. This way you can go, enjoy yourself, get drunk a lot and party for 3 days. Plus play a bunch of starcraft. That's almost worth $250 by itself. The 'expertise' etc or whatever is just gravy.
I was fully expecting this to be $450 or so.
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this is a great troll job. if its not one its the worst idea ever or at least pretty damn bad timing.
which one of you "pro gamers" hasnt been stomped out cold in a serious competition that will be at this house?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative
Where do we call ourselves progamers?
@Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people?
Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day.
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I'm not going to apply, but only because of the distance and the price involved with travel. However, if this were in my state or even an adjacent state, I'd be jumping at the chance. I don't even really care if I get better in the long run, just having the experience for such a modest price would be reason enough for me. My IRL friends don't play StarCraft, they have no idea what it's like. Being able to share that with people my age and eat pizza and get drunk and bullshit with each other for a few days would just be great.
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United States33392 Posts
On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day.
Ummm...
On May 10 2010 17:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Yep, hence me saying "some of..." and the house they live in is occupied by 4 competitive SC2 gamers that are on a sponsored team so I will take the liberty to declare that it is indeed a "progamer" house!
yeah
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On May 11 2010 07:52 JoshSuth wrote:
I'm not going to apply, but only because of the distance and the price involved with travel. However, if this were in my state or even an adjacent state, I'd be jumping at the chance. I don't even really care if I get better in the long run, just having the experience for such a modest price would be reason enough for me. My IRL friends don't play StarCraft, they have no idea what it's like. Being able to share that with people my age and eat pizza and get drunk and bullshit with each other for a few days would just be great.
This. I've worked on my friends for like the past year gradually getting them into RTS. What happened? Most don't care and would rather jump at God of War 3, SSF4, or some other thing. Just being able to be around a bunch of other nerds who love this stuff to death is why I come to TL and why I'd go to the camp (but I would wanna get better in the long run ^_^)
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This is quite possibly the most awesome camp I have ever heard of. Don't think I can make it though. :[
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 08:00 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. Ummm... Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Yep, hence me saying "some of..." and the house they live in is occupied by 4 competitive SC2 gamers that are on a sponsored team so I will take the liberty to declare that it is indeed a "progamer" house! yeah
I guess that was bad wording on my part. I was calling the house a progamer house because competitive gamers live together on the same sponsored team and are training for competition. I don't actually call the gamers themselves progamer but I can see why that'd be misleading.
Once again waxangel your intelligence blasts through my shadey attempts at tom foolery! You caught me exploiting the good people! I in fact all this time wanted people to think I view myself as a non progamer while secretly hiding my desires to be a self proclaimed progamer through strenuous connections with what we call our living situation!
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On May 11 2010 04:10 Terakin wrote:
Anyone thinking of taking up this offer, please do not forget to pack your birth certificate if you are of any other race than Caucasian. Thank you Arizona, for setting the world back 45 years.
feel free to leave america then, this is also a federal law
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The flame responses in this thread absolutely amaze me. The real amazing thing is that TL lets it go on.
TL.net pounds into us new people, "Contribute to the SC Community." Contribute, Contribute, Contribute. These Gosucoaching guys are working to bring SC community out of the internet universe and into some tangible meetups. Can no one else see that if this is successful then it could grow into something? If run right and often, it could garner sponsors and attention, and maybe even bring money into the esports community.
Now, these guys went out on a huge limb with their own time and reputations to try something relatively new to contribute to the SC community and half the threads are about how they aren't 'good enough', nitpicking cost and logistics, and trying to shoot things down.
I just wonder when people trying to contribute might get a little leeway from the community, and wonder when TL might put a few slap downs on haters and people not contributing.
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wow $250 is a great price - best of luck on this new venture!
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Braavos36375 Posts
I really see nothing wrong with this and why people are so negative. If its too much money, don't pay it. I think the gosucoaching guys in general have done a good job of staying on the right side of the "spam/advertise" line. That's why this thread isn't closed.
As for the actual $250 being worth it or not, thats your call. Its not my place (or yours) to tell other users how to spend their money. If they think its worth it, its worth it. That's all that matters really.
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$250 for a weekend of SC including food and board sounds like a really good deal to me if you're in driving distance. Best of luck!
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Will the gosucamp videos be posted for the TL community to see them?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 08:42 ss6290 wrote:
Will the gosucamp videos be posted for the TL community to see them?
Yep all content generated will be made public.
Reps, videos, interviews, blogs etc etc.. we may even broadcast lessons if we can get them filmed correctly.
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On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day.
People also buy Gucci Mane "Music"
From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds.
That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful.
But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can.
Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own.
I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all.
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On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day.
No surprise considering there are those seminar/camps for people bad with women to become PUAs. And those guys paid anywhere from $200-1000 for those things.
Fool and his money are soon parted.
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Awesome idea, looking forward to watching the videos and content coming out of the first timers. Best of luck!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all.
BINGO
Who else is offering this?
Also lets dispense with the modesty I've been sporting for a bit here.
EG is the best in the USA. There are a few that are in or around our level and they are great. They aren't on a team together and they aren't going to keep up. We are the premier SC2 team and we will only get better because we will put in more time and effort than anyone else in the US. We all qualify for nearly every tourney we compete for and we do fairly well. We lose, we look bad and we bm sometimes. We also win, look amazing and do great things too.
If you love RTS games being trained by people who have won national championships, qualified in top 4, or are up and coming (inka) then we are a good choice. If you want to holdout for that IdrA daycamp that is scheduled to take place in November of 2007 on the 45th day then by all means, shoot for that.
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this sounds pretty sweet. i live pretty close but i don't have a beta key (argh). or 250 dollars.
you should all be aware though that it's usually HOT AS FUCK in arizona in june. just sayin'.
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Yeh to the guys complaining, I really dont think this camp is for like, actual decent players.. Anyone who is even platinum could probably learn just as much by just playing more games and analyzing their own replays for 10 hours a day, so I see this more for like copper/silver league people.
Unless its one of those people who would like the discipline of being in that kind of situation, like I feel I would benefit/really boost my training if I was in a house with others playing on a strict time schedule, but I doubt I would go for anything like this. There needs to be some REAL "training houses" and what I mean by that is people who all have goals to becoming the top players in North America, living under one roof with a pretty strict schedule and practicing their builds/strategies/etc til they are perfect, much like the korean houses.. Not a house where its just 4 guys saying "ok, make sure to build more scvs, etcetc"..
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.)
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Interesting idea, though not for me.
One perk you could add is allow everyone who does it access to a section of your gosu site, and just upload a ton of replays for these privledged people to watch. Like forever, a few replays a day/week from all the coaches. Kinda a benefit after the sessions are over. Or something like that... you know, something a little more tangible.
Just a thought.
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On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all.
It's pretty hard to take this GreggSauce guy seriously.
He's the same troll who posted in the HDH Invitational thread the results of the + Show Spoiler +White-ra vs Tasteless match (placed this in a spoiler tag in case you haven't seen the results of the round of 16
On topic, this is great news. Yet another step in the right direction for e-sports. I remember as a kid going to basketball and soccer training camps in the summer to learn from the best and you're hard pressed to find a better team in the US than EG. Glad to see this on the horizon.
Just remember to charge a cancellation fee and setup a LLC (Limited Liability Company) so you can deduct expenses (cell phone, internet, computers, training material, etc.). In the views of the IRS (US tax man) you don't even have to be profitable to deduct all of your expenses.
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man this soudns really tempting, but $250 is kinda out of my price range ^^;
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$250 for a weekend full of instruction for a hobby is a super good deal, especially with a 2:1 student:teacher ratio. Can't believe people are bashing this. Really look forward to seeing this business develop.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
A lot of you guys need to relax. If this was 2006/7 i'd be the first person to tell inc there is no market for this and that they need to jump off the Esports bandwagon. However, theres a TON of new players/lurkers who im sure would love the chance to take part in this. I think it's easy to brush this off as a money grab, because you either talk to these guys regularly or "know" them online but when im sitting eating a burger with inc/machine at blizzcon and some kid walks up to get a picture with them, it's quite obvious that this is a good idea.
Good Luck - and pix please.
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On May 11 2010 09:06 sword_siege wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all. It's pretty hard to take this GreggSauce guy seriously. He's the same troll who posted in the HDH Invitational thread the results of the + Show Spoiler +White-ra vs Tasteless match (placed this in a spoiler tag in case you haven't seen the results of the round of 16 before it was streamed by HD & Husky. On topic, this is great news. Yet another step in the right direction for e-sports. I remember as a kid going to basketball and soccer training camps in the summer to learn from the best and you're hard pressed to find a better team in the US than EG. Glad to see this on the horizon. Just remember to charge a cancellation fee and setup an LLC (Limited Liability Company) so you can deduct expenses (cell phone, internet, computers, training material, etc.). In the views of the IRS (US tax man) you don't even have to be profitable to deduct all of your expenses.
Incontrol responded and agrees with the meat of what I said.
EDIT- Although to be honest, who wasn't like "what the hell is Machine/Incontrol doing" when they watched the videos? To me it looked like both players were completely winging it. I'm not interested in "hating" on this or whatever, just voicing my opinion.
I wasn't a troll, it was in spoiler text, which is why its there.
and even then, 99% of people knew what was going to happen in that match. I don't post stuff to get a reaction out of people therefore I'm not really a troll.
If you're upset Tasteless lost and you clicked that SPOILER text that was appropriately labeled and found out he got annihilated before you got to see it well, in my opinion thats on you.
When I went to see Iron Man 2, I walked by someone at work who was explaining what happened at the end before the movie came out. I chose to not listen to him and I enjoyed the end of the movie.
You could've done likewise
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On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Yeh to the guys complaining, I really dont think this camp is for like, actual decent players.. Anyone who is even platinum could probably learn just as much by just playing more games and analyzing their own replays for 10 hours a day, so I see this more for like copper/silver league people.
Unless its one of those people who would like the discipline of being in that kind of situation, like I feel I would benefit/really boost my training if I was in a house with others playing on a strict time schedule, but I doubt I would go for anything like this. There needs to be some REAL "training houses" and what I mean by that is people who all have goals to becoming the top players in North America, living under one roof with a pretty strict schedule and practicing their builds/strategies/etc til they are perfect, much like the korean houses.. Not a house where its just 4 guys saying "ok, make sure to build more scvs, etcetc"..
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.)
Maybe you never heard of EG.Grubby? (wc3 elite)
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I think this is an awesome idea you guys, this kind of thing has fostered TONS of great poker players, I don't see why it would be any different for SC2!
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Valhalla18444 Posts
Good luck with this, guys! Anyone who puts the cash down will undoubtedly get their money's worth, these are awesome guys & talented players
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F all the haters. Looking forward to the pictures.
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On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.)
You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon).
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gah i need to fly out and live cast 72 hours straight
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Good idea! Hope it's succesful!
Too bad it's such a long drive (granted not as long as some) from where I am at or I would likely sign up. It would be an 18 hour trip, going none stop.
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Won't beta end by the time this starts?
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If anyone Gold or below applies and is rejected, there are plenty of people on TL who can get you to platinum. If you ask nicely for their time or offer a small fee I'm sure they'd be happy to.
You only need a modicum of intelligence and willingness to play 2 hours a day.
Edit: SPECIAL OFFER! silver/gold to platinum in 1 week! pm me for price:-D
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On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon).
both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded...
he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM"
notice the bold? you fail.
User was warned for this post
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On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail.
They are on contracts...
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On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all.
My god, still this retarded "they are not the best players in the world" argument.
So I assume I shouldnt go to basketball training, because my coach is not Larry fucking Bird.
I shouldnt take guitar lessons, because my guitar teacher isnt Carlos Santana.
I shouldnt go to physics because my teacher isnt Stephen Hawkins.
It's just such a dumb argument,
also fyi, someone who is good at something isnt automatically good at teaching it, and I know that at least incontrol is pretty good at it.
Also wtf does "anyone with decent search skills" mean?
Like what are you searching for?
For guides on the internet? Replays?
Sure they are helpful and also necessary to improve but they wont improve your skill nearly as fast as training by a top player.
And yes btw, these guys have actual contracts which state they are not allowed to talk about their salary.
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Can I come and just watch? I'll do dishes or something. I'm in Phoenix D:
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On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail.
oh christ... get over yourself
its an awesome idea and most people who are willing to pay for this will be able to learn something from them because they are obviously alot better than most people who plays starcraft
and 250dollars is really not alot all things considered
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And to all the haters... please stop the trolling its not like they are making any major profit on this.
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On May 11 2010 10:18 aycheff wrote:
Can I come and just watch? I'll do dishes or something. I'm in Phoenix D:
That'd be nice, I live in Chandler but I bet they wont let anyone watch. Its gonna be too crowded, plus they will be sharing strats and secrets that we didn't pay for.
Business as usual.
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Good luck. Certainly an interesting idea and to see it taken seriously will, I'm sure, make this a 100 page thread in no time. Hope it works out and everyone's happy.
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On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon).
those arent the SC division..
The SC division does NOT have a player like Grubby (arguably best Orc player in the WORLD). therefor, I am curious. Thats all.. I want to know SPECIFICALLY if the people who are hosting THIS "TRAINING CAMP" are "salaried" .. I know about Grubby, (actually i didnt know he was still with EG, thought he woulda went back to MYM now that they are back, I havent been following war3 scene for years).. But it still does not discredit my point, which is about the SC2 squad.
But I know I wont get an answer; as most teams say "We have our contract that we can't disclose salary negotiations", yet 9 times out of 10, the US teams who are sponsored come out and say after they leave that they were not getting anything or not getting what they are promised.
That is why im curious, as far as I know, theres not many US/North American teams that are salary based, if any (esp at the moment).. so I thought it was a legitimate question, esp when they are getting customers to pay them for this "training camp" and using that as a marketing point for themselves.
You can make the argument that EG isnt even the top North American SC2 team at the moment, with Root Gaming putting up impressive results lately. Along with other teams. So I am curious. Their SC squad is not world-beaters like Grubby and their CS team, therefor theres a HUGE difference. I have been in two teams now that have had excellent salaried CS squads, yet BW/War3 teams were not paid. Its not like just because they have Grubby, to expect that Inka and Machine are getting the exact same setup as Grubby does.
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Wow great idea, although I live in CA, and I'm only 15, but if I lived in Arizona and I was 18 I would go for sure.
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On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept.
hi pick-up artists
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If I had a ride from Ohio to Arizona and 250 dollars I would definitely apply for this, sure, none of them might be the absolute best in the usa, but then again, Effort isn't the best brood war zerg player, but hes still way better than I am at zerg...all four of them are awesome players, I think that you can learn much more at a camp then by watching replays, especially with one on one coaching by all four of them -your getting input that will help you improve your mechanics and gameplay far beyond your current level. I also believe that starcraft 2 does take some mechanics, especially for some specific strategies and heavy harassing/multitasking builds. Besides this, who wants to miss out on an awesome tl meetup like this ? Three days in an environment geared towards competitive starcraft 2... I can see the perks for sure. And good luck with getting the sponsors for the expo thing, that would be a huge step for esports in the united states!
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:hi pick-up artists
Please tell me you've gone to one.
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Braavos36375 Posts
To all the negative posters, if it fails, it fails. What is the problem? I don't think EG is misrepresenting themselves because of some technicalities with the word "progamer" nor are they somehow scamming people to strike it rich -- the price isn't really that high.
I think people on TL are big boys and can decide for themselves whether they want to go to this camp or not.
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On May 11 2010 10:38 Skyze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, theres VERY FEW teams outside of Korea that do this, and I dont think EG is one of them, so if they are using that as part of their marketing to get people to enroll and it is untrue, that isnt very cool. People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). those arent the SC division.. The SC division does NOT have a player like Grubby (arguably best Orc player in the WORLD). therefor, I am curious. Thats all.. I want to know SPECIFICALLY if the people who are hosting THIS "TRAINING CAMP" are "salaried" .. I know about Grubby, (actually i didnt know he was still with EG, thought he woulda went back to MYM now that they are back, I havent been following war3 scene for years).. But it still does not discredit my point, which is about the SC2 squad.
Exactly my point
On May 11 2010 10:24 UbiNax wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:13 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 09:42 NzaR wrote:On May 11 2010 09:01 Skyze wrote:
Im also curious to know if EG actually has their players on a contract/"paid" basis, because as most of us know, /u]. I know teams in the recent past had "deals in place" that fell apart, involving many of the US guys, so it'd be nice to get a clarification on that for people who do not understand the "sponsored" aspect. I mean, with Revolution Sports Gaming right now, we have tons of sponsors like BAWLS and Puretrak and many more, yet at this time we do not have any "salaried" players (altho in the past, different story.) You write too much but know so little. EG is a very well known team, and anyone that follows the e-sports scene know it or at least heard of it. EG's CS division won WCG USA last year, and their WC3 division has Grubby who is one of the three most titled players in the world (the other two are Sky and Moon). both you and LZ as well as anyone else that responds to this is missing the most important part of this which completely makes your guys' responses look retarded... he says this "...People might actually believe they are being paid a salary to play SC for a living, yet the only team outside of korea that I believe has that happen right now is MYM" notice the bold? you fail. oh christ... get over yourself its an awesome idea and most people who are willing to pay for this will be able to learn something from them because they are obviously alot better than most people who plays starcraft and 250dollars is really not alot all things considered ---- And to all the haters... please stop the trolling its not like they are making any major profit on this.
Get over myself? I'm not saying anything about my self worth, so please don't bring it up thanks.
I'm not hating or trolling, I'm stating my opinion. I think its horrible timing on their part and a bad decisions because of that. Trolling would be along the lines of "OMG Team EG = Noobs, pay $ to learn from scrubs, rofl i'm #1 plat" none of that came from me.
On May 11 2010 10:17 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 08:46 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 07:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On May 11 2010 07:38 St3MoR wrote:
good luck with your project, but well, is it just me that finds annoying that you call yourselves progamers? call me old fashioned but i think of another thing when i think of a progamer
anyway as said before, good luck with the initiative Where do we call ourselves progamers? @Greggsauce: Who hasn't been stomped out of a tourney? WHat are you even driving at, do we need to be the best to put on a camp for people? Evidently not. I've received over 30 applications in the first day. People also buy Gucci Mane "Music" From what I gather the EG crew is a strong team of very likable guys. The majority of people that'd be interested in this either have a decent sum of money laying around, or just want to hang out with some high profile nerds. That's about it. its not quite exploiting people since they definitely don't NEED to be coached in order to play, but its somewhere in the gray area, not really helpful, not really useful. But all I'm really saying is if I was to spend a decent sum of money being trained by someone to get better at what I want to improve on... I will choose the best damn person I can. Charging $250 probably isn't "too" much, but anyone with decent search skills could do way better on their own. I just don't currently see the plusses to this at all. My god, still this retarded "they are not the best players in the world" argument. So I assume I shouldnt go to basketball training, because my coach is not Larry fucking Bird. I shouldnt take guitar lessons, because my guitar teacher isnt Carlos Santana. I shouldnt go to physics because my teacher isnt Stephen Hawkins. It's just such a dumb argument, also fyi, someone who is good at something isnt automatically good at teaching it, and I know that at least incontrol is pretty good at it. Also wtf does "anyone with decent search skills" mean? Like what are you searching for? For guides on the internet? Replays? Sure they are helpful and also necessary to improve but they wont improve your skill nearly as fast as training by a top player. And yes btw, these guys have actual contracts which state they are not allowed to talk about their salary.
First off, the SC2 team isn't salaried unless it changed after the recent Incontrol inverview with husky where he basically says he's broke and his only job is at gamestop....
secondly, "anyone with decent searching skills" means exactly what you said. Of course being trained by someone may be beneficial to a lot of people, but in all honesty, its not too useful right now for two reasons.
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet.
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On May 11 2010 10:55 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept. hi pick-up artists Please tell me you've gone to one.
OH HI, I was just pointing out this is the same idea
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And for the reading-impaired people, if you read back 2-3 pages ago, I said this whole idea is a GOOD IDEA, and the $250 price is reasonable for what they are asking. I pay that in 5 hours of guitar lessons, so a full weekend of SC knowledge is worth it to someone who wants it.
I just wanted to find out if they were backing up some of the claims they said themselves, im not arguing they are a bad team, def one of the top in north america, but they shouldnt say certain things if its not true, just to get more customers.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 11 2010 11:02 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:55 Kennigit wrote:On May 11 2010 10:45 avilo wrote:On May 10 2010 17:23 DJay_ wrote:
hmmmm very interesting concept. hi pick-up artists Please tell me you've gone to one. OH HI, I was just pointing out this is the same idea
Yup, and they are EXTREMELY profitable lol.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
greggsauce would you be shocked to learn that despite our "recent performance" (laughable, we played other TOP players and lost/won but apparently that makes us average platinum players) we are STILL better than 99% of people in the USA? Yep. Hate to burst your bubble but you can name maybe 4-5 other USA SC2 players that are currently around our skill level but nobody that is run away better save for IdrA and he is in korea + he loses games to us as well.
You are rapidly approaching uncommunicative levels when you assert things based on me saying I was broke in an interview and "recent performance" when we h ad louder take 4th in the NA invitational, Machine helped close out the USA vs Canada showmatch winning 2-0 vs their best players, Inka clobbering ZOTAC's recent runner up Jinro 2-0, Lzgamer a weekly tourney champion and myself who ain't too shabby either. But I am not going to continue this argument because I have experience, hard facts and names and you have generalities and the end goal of dirtying this thread up with garbage.
Consider this my last indulgence.
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This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\
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I don't mind the $250, but 9 AM?!?!? :O
EDIT: I was just kidding, I would totally do this if I lived in the area. Good luck to everyone who applies! Can't wait to see the videos and stuff that comes out of this.
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On May 11 2010 11:10 Rubyiris wrote:
This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\
Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more.
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On May 11 2010 11:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
greggsauce would you be shocked to learn that despite our "recent performance" (laughable, we played other TOP players and lost/won but apparently that makes us average platinum players) we are STILL better than 99% of people in the USA? Yep. Hate to burst your bubble but you can name maybe 4-5 other USA SC2 players that are currently around our skill level but nobody that is run away better save for IdrA and he is in korea + he loses games to us as well.
You are rapidly approaching uncommunicative levels when you assert things based on me saying I was broke in an interview and "recent performance" when we h ad louder take 4th in the NA invitational, Machine helped close out the USA vs Canada showmatch winning 2-0 vs their best players, Inka clobbering ZOTAC's recent runner up Jinro 2-0, Lzgamer a weekly tourney champion and myself who ain't too shabby either. But I am not going to continue this argument because I have experience, hard facts and names and you have generalities and the end goal of dirtying this thread up with garbage.
Consider this my last indulgence.
you didn't burst my bubble at all. technically I am better then 99% as well
it'd be safer to say you're probably around 99.998% and not 99%
Not dirtying up much of anything, sorry you're not "broke," you're just hustling gosucoaching in any topic you go into while working at gamestop.
I said its BAD timing, and probably a bad idea anyway. thats it. Remove head from whatever crevasse you stuck it in and realize what I wrote before typing back to me about it.
Considering the amount of trolling that already happened in the thread I'm surprised you're even going after the one that really isn't trolling.
Wasn't there a closed topic about you attacking the wrong thing? There could be a connection here.
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You guys don't have to respond to these naysayers.
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it's like saying that if you go to university you have to go to Harvard, otherwise it's worth nothing
I don't see how people can say things like coaching being completely useless for platinum players simply based on personal experience.
I could learn everything I learn at school and so much more through the Internet, but I still go; human interaction and guidance is important to some degree. I'm not convinced by the whole 'training with the pros rather than training with the college team' thing; which famous, successful coach have you heard of that was also a famous, successful player? I can't even think of one. That afaik no one has come out and said 'these guys suck don't take their offer' suggests that they know what they're doing. You don't have to be the best player to be the best teacher, or even a good player to be a good teacher. We like Day[9] even though he's not a top-tier player, while I doubt that Idra would get many viewers.
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Greggsauce I guarantee you I am not as skilled as any of the guys hosting this camp. I also guarantee you that I can completely rape you 1v1 any time. Stop trying to make yourself look like a big bad starcraft 2 player, or pm me for a game.
User was warned for this post
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lol, you're such a bully "newguy"
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These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions.
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sup w/ the house in queen creek? that's a pretty awful part of the valley, you guys own the house or renting or what?
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On May 11 2010 11:23 Redmark wrote:
it's like saying that if you go to university you have to go to Harvard, otherwise it's worth nothing
I don't see how people can say things like coaching being completely useless for platinum players simply based on personal experience.
I could learn everything I learn at school and so much more through the Internet, but I still go; human interaction and guidance is important to some degree. I'm not convinced by the whole 'training with the pros rather than training with the college team' thing; which famous, successful coach have you heard of that was also a famous, successful player? I can't even think of one. That afaik no one has come out and said 'these guys suck don't take their offer' suggests that they know what they're doing. You don't have to be the best player to be the best teacher, or even a good player to be a good teacher. We like Day[9] even though he's not a top-tier player, while I doubt that Idra would get many viewers.
But my latter points already clarified this, if you were learning at a college for business for free, would you spend money to get the same material from a different college, or would you spend money to go to harvard business? keeping in mind that a career in business is your ultimate goal with this. The answer is obvious.
Theres also a large difference between training a player, and coaching a team, both of which break the comparison. Won't go there.
Day9 is an excellent commentator. He's very analytical, entertaining, and understands SC1 and 2 in a way most people don't. however, I wouldn't even know of his show if it cost me any amount of money to watch it.
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On May 11 2010 11:30 Mr.E wrote:
These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions.
Would you go to phoenix and pay $250 in order to do so? Do you use their GosuCoaching? Because they do it there.
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On May 11 2010 11:38 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:30 Mr.E wrote:
These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions. Would you go to phoenix and pay $250 in order to do so? Do you use their GosuCoaching? Because they do it there.
What is your purpose in this thread? You are doing nothing besides spamming to increase your post count ><
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On May 11 2010 11:38 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:30 Mr.E wrote:
These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions. Would you go to phoenix and pay $250 in order to do so? Do you use their GosuCoaching? Because they do it there.
I'll play along:
Yes I would, I would like the go down to AZ cause I have extra disposable income and would like to be a better player + have fun experience with other SC2 players, both players a lot better than me and some around my level. I think in person + full day training sessions will help me many multitudes more than just using gosucoaching.
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On May 11 2010 11:48 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:38 GreggSauce wrote:On May 11 2010 11:30 Mr.E wrote:
These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions. Would you go to phoenix and pay $250 in order to do so? Do you use their GosuCoaching? Because they do it there. I'll play along: Yes I would, I would like the go down to AZ cause I have extra disposable income and would like to be a better player + have fun experience with other SC2 players, both players a lot better than me and some around my level. I think in person + full day training sessions will help me many multitudes more than just using gosucoaching.
I'm just having a discussion here, I don't care if my post count is locked at 0 its irrelevant.
and that question was to Mr. E, who is a very good player in his own right. The fact that you said yourself those players are much better then you disqualifies you from my question... lol
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Most people are probably negative/skeptical about this because really there are no SC2 progamers right now, regardless how talented or not talented EG is or however they want to hype themselves .
Saying they are better than 99% of usa is an exaggeration imo, there are a lot a lot of other good players as well, and it being beta, nothing is fleshed out strategy wise. But these guys have strong SC background (OBVIOUSLY).
my personal opinion: EG is very good, but no where near LEVELS above other top usa gamers that others could not offer the same type of service.
with that being said, other top players are not offering this type of thing apparently, so what would be wrong with going to EG since they are offering it?
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ROFL.
ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THIS CAMP IS THE BIGGEST NERD EVER ROFL
fucking fail seriously
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On May 11 2010 11:38 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:30 Mr.E wrote:
These players are some of the best there are right now. That statement is undeniably true. As a #1 plat player, I would love to have these players analyze my play and give their opinions. Would you go to phoenix and pay $250 in order to do so? Do you use their GosuCoaching? Because they do it there.
K. You dont feel that you need this. Great, now get out of the thread, you have made your point. The EG guys are undeniably top players, and judging by the continued traffic they get for lessons and such, they are pretty good at teaching too. Learning on your own works, but some people dont learn as fast or just like to have friends who are better players to learn with so they can learn faster.
Just because you learn best in one method, or dont see yourself ever doing this, fine, dont. You aren't going to convince people who would not to. So please stop cluttering the thread and go about your life.
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On May 11 2010 11:51 avilo wrote:
Most people are probably negative/skeptical about this because really there are no SC2 progamers right now, regardless how talented or not talented EG is or however they want to hype themselves .
Saying they are better than 99% of usa is an exaggeration imo, there are a lot a lot of other good players as well, and it being beta, nothing is fleshed out strategy wise. But these guys have strong SC background (OBVIOUSLY).
my personal opinion: EG is very good, but no where near LEVELS above other top usa gamers that others could not offer the same type of service.
with that being said, other top players are not offering this type of thing apparently, so what would be wrong with going to EG since they are offering it?
If you run the numbers, 99% is actually a huge understatement.
With around 25k+ people on the US beta servers at any particular minute, and probably upwards of 100k beta testers in US in total, it's pretty obvious that they're far above the 99th percentile of players.
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That's quite epic. I'll be in phoenix in that time period, but I can't play for beans at all and don't have the money floating around. Still EPIC. Demand youtube footage of it :D
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On May 11 2010 11:51 GSP wrote:
ROFL.
ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THIS CAMP IS THE BIGGEST NERD EVER ROFL
fucking fail seriously
ROFL.
ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT MAKING POINTLESS POSTS LIKE THIS IS THE BIGGEST RETARD EVER ROFL
fucking fail seriously
EDIT: Needed to remove punctuation to make my post consistent with this piece of crap. Love 10 post count noobs posting worthless bullshit like this.
User was warned for this post
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Doesn't seem you could accomplish much in a short 3 days. :T
You'd need some back to back sessions to really improve.
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Sounds like it'd be fun, but I definitely wouldn't spend money to do this. Perfect time to announce this with the influx of newbies and all.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 12:03 Shenron wrote:
Doesn't seem you could accomplish much in a short 3 days. :T
You'd need some back to back sessions to really improve.
I like the way you think my man.
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On May 11 2010 12:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 12:03 Shenron wrote:
Doesn't seem you could accomplish much in a short 3 days. :T
You'd need some back to back sessions to really improve. I like the way you think my man.
Yeah. although help is useful nolifing is better at times.
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On May 11 2010 11:56 im a roc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:51 GSP wrote:
ROFL.
ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THIS CAMP IS THE BIGGEST NERD EVER ROFL
fucking fail seriously ROFL. ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT MAKING POINTLESS POSTS LIKE THIS IS THE BIGGEST RETARD EVER ROFL fucking fail seriously EDIT: Needed to remove punctuation to make my post consistent with this piece of crap. Love 10 post count noobs posting worthless bullshit like this.
100 posts does not make you any better. just ignore these people, they will be banned quickly anyways.
On a more serious note this sounds like a great camp but I think 7 day camps run better than 3 day camps. its also pretty expensive for 3 days at $250
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United States33392 Posts
to quote a reliable source
"Queen Creek is a shithole.. literally there's miles of dairy farms so it smells like cowshit in addition to being 110+ degrees, it's pretty much the worst part of the Phx area in pretty much the worst time of year. The whole idea could hardly be any stupider"
just trollin'
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I've got to say this is just such + Show Spoiler +
All you seem to try to do is make money off of teamliquid.
Incontrol i'm disgusted with you as of late.
edit: And it's not as though i don't think people will pay for this, and wouldn't continue to in the future. It just seems straight up exploitative to me.
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man, i wish i was over 18 with 250 dollars, not including airfare.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 12:14 ghermination wrote:I've got to say this is just such + Show Spoiler +All you seem to try to do is make money off of teamliquid. Incontrol i'm disgusted with you as of late. edit: And it's not as though i don't think people will pay for this, and wouldn't continue to in the future. It just seems straight up exploitative to me.
If you pay me 500$ I will tone it down.
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On May 11 2010 12:10 Waxangel wrote:
to quote a reliable source
"Queen Creek is a shithole.. literally there's miles of dairy farms so it smells like cowshit in addition to being 110+ degrees, it's pretty much the worst part of the Phx area in pretty much the worst time of year. The whole idea could hardly be any stupider"
just trollin'
well queen creek does suck a whole lot of dicks, but it isn't so far away from tempe/chandler/scottsdale that you can't have a good time there. but yeah the dairy farms are everywhere
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Oh man how I wish this were in Orlando, Florida! Will probably just pay for some gosucoaching.com online over the summer once I save up a few dollars.
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Sounds kinda expensive. Paying $250 so I can slave away at SC2? I guess the real buy here is the coaching and focused environment and all that jazz. $250 is kinda pricey for just a weekend though.
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WTB 250 dollars plz..
Orlando never seems to have anything =(
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It seems pretty exploitive and unethical to me.
Obviously people in lower leagues could gain all the information they need to get to platinum just on the forums. There isn't anything special about constantly building workers and massing on three production facilities or 2 hatches. People who are in platinum are smart enough (about the game) to know that there are so many obvious leaks in everyone's plays atm that hearing about them from 'pros' won't be much of a difference than fixing them yourself.
Anyway, your game would be better off if u spent that $250 on a better chair so u feel more comfortable playing -.-
If someone can point out what the EG guys can teach a copper to gold level player that the forums can't, my mind would be blown away. Don't get me wrong, I bet they are all nice guys and I love Lz's stream and all, but taking advantage of newbies isn't very nice!
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this reminds me of the time dudey tried to run a pro gaming camp scam.
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I'm actually considering. I've got nothing better to do over the summer, god knows I have enough money....
be cool to hang out and make friends.
INC - cutoff date to register?
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On May 11 2010 12:24 Onea wrote:
Oh man how I wish this were in Orlando, Florida! Will probably just pay for some gosucoaching.com online over the summer once I save up a few dollars.
I used to live less than an hour away from Orlando for like... 20 yrs ;o
There is also a Florida LAN soon:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=122713
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i hate how people think that it's their right to get extensive help from all the pros, and that the top level players are totally satisfied with 'winnin da tourneyz cuz i'm da best'. Its fine to be a bit surprised that video game help is actually *worth* money, because it is a relatively new concept, but really guys, come on.
Everything that people want is worth money in this world, that's the point of money, it's CURRENCY. It's a MEDIUM FOR TRADE.
And as e-sports grows, the market for this type of thing will grow as well, I'm calling it now. In fact, any of you would be lucky to get this kind of deal a few years from now.
Innovators in history have always been looked down upon, these thread-shitters are no different. Anyhow my praise to the EG crew, this seems awesome and I hope you have great successes with this. You guys are really the people making e-sports flourish!
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Great idea! More events (and more types of events) is great for SC2.
For those of you who say $250 is a lot: consider the time and effort to put it together, and that multiple people will be working the event. There are 4 coaches, each working about 12 hrs a day for 3 days. That's 144 man-hours (which doesn't even count set-up, organization, cleanup, etc, which is a huge amount of time). 8 campers at $250 each is $2000. That works out to $13.89 dollars an hour for the coaches (again, this doesn't include the set-up and clean-up). That's not terrible, but it sure isn't great. I think $250 is a very fair price.
Note to inControl: you might want to contact Bliz to get their sanction or whatever for the event (if you haven't already), because they own the IP.
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wtf I live in Queen Creek.. no1 else does. No1!
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good luck with this! imma laugh my ass off if the trainees kick your arse.
but really good luck and look forward to watching the vids.
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On May 11 2010 11:51 GSP wrote:
ROFL.
ANYONE WHO IS EVEN THINKING ABOUT GOING TO THIS CAMP IS THE BIGGEST NERD EVER ROFL
fucking fail seriously
People actually try to use "nerd" as a put down on a SC forum? Really? Dude you've lost any ability to use that just by being on this site, let alone registering and posting. NERD.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 11 2010 12:10 Waxangel wrote:
to quote a reliable source
"Queen Creek is a shithole.. literally there's miles of dairy farms so it smells like cowshit in addition to being 110+ degrees, it's pretty much the worst part of the Phx area in pretty much the worst time of year. The whole idea could hardly be any stupider"
just trollin'
Thankfully we won't be taking nature walks or sitting in the yard playing lawn darts. This is a SC2 camp so the surrounding infrastructure should have very little impact on us. Also believe it or not, hot weather in the summer happens in lots of places. Thanks though for your help, in the future we will move this camp to our vacation home in the pacific islands.
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lol... sorry but this is... -_________-
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On May 11 2010 13:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 12:10 Waxangel wrote:
to quote a reliable source
"Queen Creek is a shithole.. literally there's miles of dairy farms so it smells like cowshit in addition to being 110+ degrees, it's pretty much the worst part of the Phx area in pretty much the worst time of year. The whole idea could hardly be any stupider"
just trollin' Thankfully we won't be taking nature walks or sitting in the yard playing lawn darts. This is a SC2 camp so the surrounding infrastructure should have very little impact on us. Also believe it or not, hot weather in the summer happens in lots of places. Thanks though for your help, in the future we will move this camp to our vacation home in the pacific islands.
Even if you guys did that, someone would have SOMETHING to complain about (probably the heat still) :o
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Pacific islands are so humid. Everyone's computer will get moisture damage!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
also I heard it is distracting with how gorgeous the water is I heard this from a reliable source btw. Stupidest idea ever
just trolling
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Fun Idea, but I feel like you guys will have trouble finding people who can not only travel but bring their own PC's... Unless they are in the pheonix area. Getting PC's through an airport would suck, they would almost certainly be screened and or smashed in luggage. Also it seems to me it would work way better with lan >< (lol blizz), a single connection might be strained unless you plan on playing only 1 game at a time. Still, If I Could get time off work and find a cheap flight I would consider it.
Good luck guys!
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On May 11 2010 13:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 12:10 Waxangel wrote:
to quote a reliable source
"Queen Creek is a shithole.. literally there's miles of dairy farms so it smells like cowshit in addition to being 110+ degrees, it's pretty much the worst part of the Phx area in pretty much the worst time of year. The whole idea could hardly be any stupider"
just trollin' Thankfully we won't be taking nature walks or sitting in the yard playing lawn darts. This is a SC2 camp so the surrounding infrastructure should have very little impact on us. Also believe it or not, hot weather in the summer happens in lots of places. Thanks though for your help, in the future we will move this camp to our vacation home in the pacific islands.
This. Why are people complaining about the weather? Here in AZ we pump AC 24/7 so unless you are a smoker and need your smoke break prepare to sweat for 5 minutes. As someone who has lived in Queen Creek, the stars are so beautiful at night time, you'd really enjoy it. Consider it part of the $250 you shell out. Plus, in the middle of QC there are a lot of cool things to do ( some bars and stuff out there), plus, everything you need from Fillibertos, Mcdonalds, Wal Mart, etc all on Rittenhouse / Ocotillo.
EXPERIENCE new things, a new place, and most importantly, nerding it up in SC2 with 11 other nerds. :D
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Thanks for posting the price. Considering it covers housing and food, that's actually really cheap.
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what do these guys do for a living? are they in college?
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This is really ambitious of you guys gl with it.
lol did machine really get a warning for this comment? That's a bit silly imo.
On May 10 2010 17:32 Machine[USA] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:32 Bigpon86 wrote:
Can I show up to sexually pleasure you guys instead of getting sc training???? yes but that will cost extra User was warned for this post
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On May 11 2010 13:49 Jonoman92 wrote:This is really ambitious of you guys gl with it. lol did machine really get a warning for this comment? That's a bit silly imo. Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:32 Machine[USA] wrote:On May 10 2010 17:32 Bigpon86 wrote:
Can I show up to sexually pleasure you guys instead of getting sc training???? yes but that will cost extra User was warned for this post
I got warned for telling someone to read bold text. mods be crazy
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lol, this reminds me of the book "the game", where they made a house for pickup artists, and gave weekend seminars
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On May 11 2010 14:02 GreggSauce wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 13:49 Jonoman92 wrote:This is really ambitious of you guys gl with it. lol did machine really get a warning for this comment? That's a bit silly imo. On May 10 2010 17:32 Machine[USA] wrote:On May 10 2010 17:32 Bigpon86 wrote:
Can I show up to sexually pleasure you guys instead of getting sc training???? yes but that will cost extra User was warned for this post I got warned for telling someone to read bold text. mods be crazy wait til the kraken is unleashed.
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2629 Posts
I find this idea unique and bold, considering the divided opinion on the camp itself, so I would like to share a few points I was thinking about throughout the day. (Bare with me here, I just got home after a 16 hours school/work day).
Firstly, what prompted Team EG to start this ? Apart from entrepreneurship and an attempt to broaden eSports prospective sphere of influence, has Team EG truly consider that the camp will help boost Starcraft as a means of MTV-esque show ? Giving back to the community is one thing, but plunging your heads into an unorganized, lack of commitment cash cow is another. I, as well as many others that have posted, look forward to Team EG's performance not only as gosucoaching experts, but pro gaming and its professionalism. It is highly possible that the turn out of this event will not be something that you guys and the community are expecting. I'm positive that will bring down not only your reputation as a well-known and respected professional gaming group, but of any future Starcraft-related events. (+ the bandwagon of mockery and ridicule ) I trust you consider the consequences, and that not only are your asses on the line, but possibly the future of e-Sports. (I apologize for that, perhaps it was a little over the top..) Also, I am simply disgusted at the fact that posts before discredit Team EG's performances in recent events. I find it useless to talk anymore about it, as their credentials as a positive influence to the community can be found everywhere on the forums. Now, about the event itself.
I'm talking from a more business-like perspective, so please forgive me for mistaking anything. I suppose that this is your test run for later camps and eventful promotions in the near future. If so, what does the $250 cover ? I understand if you don't want to disclose that information. The reason why I bring it up is because it's possible for you to throw out a promotion for a "student" who is starting out with starcraft, perhaps a bronze/silver leaguer, and then transform him into "zomg rank 2 plat". That would definitely be an eye-catcher. Waive the fee, or lessen it, but advertise that well until it runs dry. I know that other details are meant for private negotiation between your group and the applicant, but throwing a sample of the selection process and documenting a selected few would encourage discussion among forum-goers, getting important feedback and comments. I also find that it is quite enjoyable as well, seeing how most of us would like to be in the shoes of the pupil.
I'm really tired so I'm just gonna wrap this up. I personally find it a bit early in this stage of the game to be offering a service like this, simply because things aren't set in place yet. The idea is solid, the execution is yet to be determined, but in the long run, I hope not only the trainees benefit from this, but gosucoaching as well. The TL community can try to be a little more supportive about this, rather than useless bashing on how greed consumes EG. Keep your opinions to yourselves. Next time inControl makes a poll on "do you think this is a good idea ?", we'll come back to your apeshit pessimism. I applaud all of you who are taking part in this, as a fellow sympathizer of eSports. I wish you the best of luck
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On May 11 2010 15:01 kino.heezy wrote:
what does the $250 cover ?
Their time and expertise. When you go to a doctor and he does a physical exam for you but you don't need any prescriptions or tests it's not like you are just like "well, guess I don't gotta pay cya laterzzz."
You are paying for their hard earned knowledge. Gamers=doctors pretty much or lawyers, etc.
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By the way, I don't know why you guys are confusing this... this isn't a team EG event, this is a Gosucoaching event. The fact that most of the staff are in EG is pretty much inconsequential.
Really awesome I hope this works out greatly and is a lot of fun!
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Isn't there something like Str8 camp? Halo training camp. This isn't anything new, just a new game.
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Why are so many people hating on this? I think it's a great idea, though the cost is a little too steep for what I would personally pay, but the idea is sound. And for the people saying this is just too "nerdy" - really? How is going to call someone out for being a nerd going to have any effect on a SC forum? There's no real difference between this and going on any type of sports training camp.
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Except a sports training camp is usually a summer camp that lasts several weeks and gets your kids out of the house and exercising.
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i hope you dont get tasered
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Cool idea - reasonable price too, especially considering that it covers food. Despite what all the trolls in this thread might be saying, you guys are staying pretty modest and I've got to respect you for that. Good luck with the camp, I'm sure everyone involved will have a good time nerding it up and playing non-stop SC2.
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Love the idea. Wow, I want to see how this turns out.
Great idea guys! GL with the camp.
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Don't know how anyone can argue the price lol, 250 is beyond fair. For a 4 day trip to hang out with like-minded people and learn a lot about a hobby we all love. The halo 3 team that does something similar charges 10x that amount (literally) I believe. This seems like a great deal,
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Sounds like the "life experience" part of this might be worth more than the "increase your SC 2 skills" part, though of course getting better at SC 2 if you're serious about it is a great thing too. Honestly, there are plenty of people who pay outrageous amounts of money for "life experiences" in other areas, and $250 is not in any way outrageous for food, lodging, and a grand time with some of the best US SC 2 players around.
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well 250$ is pretty fair I must admit. I don't have as much of a problem with this event anymore, gl hf.
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I'm just reading through a few more pages and wow I can't believe how much hate you guys are giving. If its not your thing than don't do it. We have teamliquid meet ups and tournaments where everyone chips in a few bucks for a games or two worth of fun, like I said the halo 3 team that does this charges aroudn 2250 dollars I believe for a weekend, I don't see how everyones saying this is overpriced and stupid, if its not your thing then its not your thing but I'll be you all anything that they could raise the price and still be booked easily. 250 dollars is a great price if I were at all in the AZ area I would love to participate.
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If this ends up happening (which it sounds like it will, but you never know), I might have a solution for the high costs / risks / hassels of the trainees bringing their own computers. My family has a shipping business in Seattle, and we get a 72%-off discount on our UPS shipments. I'd be willing to forward the computers to the training location using that account, which would make shipments from most places in the U.S. about $30-$40 (mostly depending on the size of the monitor / how you package it). I'd imagine that's cheaper than what you'd pay to bring it on an airplane, plus you can insure the equipment in case it breaks.
Just figured I'd offer this, as a sorta've "give-back" to the community that I've enjoyed for so many years. If anyone's interested, just PM me with the originating and destination addresses, along with the dimensions and weight of the box(s) you're using. You can just pay me with paypal, and I'll email over the .pdf labels to use on the box. From there you'll have to drop it off at a UPS store, or snag a passing driver. It's about a day for every 200 miles using UPS, so figure that into your lead-time.
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I have a shitty laptop I'd bring with me instead of my whole rig. Even putting costs aside, getting two huge boxes* in addition to your normal luggage on and off the plane would be a huge pain. SC2 is pretty darn forgiving if you run it on low settings. Bring along your normal keyboard & mouse to use on the laptop, and I think that would be good enough to get you through a weekend.
*You know baggage handlers aren't going to be careful, so you'd need considerably large boxes to properly pack. Especially if your smallest monitor is 24".
If you're driving there, I'd definitely bring your tower. I mean, why not? If you're flying though, I think you'd be better off getting a cheap laptop instead. Heck, it's probably be cheaper in many circumstances.
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you have everything in america
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Also, speaking from a business standpoint, the profits from the $250.00 per person will probably be largely reduced by their costs. In fact, I doubt they've actually gone through and itemized what it will actually cost them to feed and house their guests, because if they have then they're either going to be providing ramen noodles and a spot on the floor to sleep, or they've got someone at the house that works at Pizza Hut that can grab food for free at the end of his shift. 6-7 pizzas per day (rather conservate for 12 gamers, but...), plus a couple of cases of pop or beer, is around $85.00. If they're going to do barbeques, or a couple of special meals, those costs are even higher. So that's a very conservative $340.00 off the top.
If they're purchasing any of the infrastructure required for this event, then they're going to be making even less money. Even if they get lucky and find a couple big tables or desks off of Craigslist for nothing, they've still got to spend the money to go get them. They'll also need to provide chairs, sleeping materials (at least sleeping bags and pillows) and connectivity. Having run a few lans, they'll most likely have to buy at least a few surge protectors, and probably an extra router and some ethernet cables as well. I'd guesstimate these costs at around $250-$300, depending on if they're just planning on using extra blankets, or if they're going to be providing new sleeping bags.
Honestly, if you take out the costs associated with something like this (increased power / water bill, required equipment, food and housing), the "trainers" are probably only coming away with $350.00 each if the advertised four trainers each take an equal cut. That's $87.5 per day. Not extravagant at all, in my opinion. Basically, it's a little more than you'd make as a burger slinger at McDonalds, and a good deal less than you'd make as a waitress at a relatively busy truck stop.
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A real cute initiative!
This can be the start of progaming outside korea? XD
However i like how incontrol & co are trying to morph their preferite hobby into a work!
The major issue her eis that sc2 is a new game..so how can you say that you are good enough to teach someone at this stage of the game (think about the changes between patches, the new build going on day by day)
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On May 11 2010 11:51 avilo wrote:
Most people are probably negative/skeptical about this because really there are no SC2 progamers right now, regardless how talented or not talented EG is or however they want to hype themselves .
Saying they are better than 99% of usa is an exaggeration imo, there are a lot a lot of other good players as well, and it being beta, nothing is fleshed out strategy wise. But these guys have strong SC background (OBVIOUSLY).
my personal opinion: EG is very good, but no where near LEVELS above other top usa gamers that others could not offer the same type of service.
with that being said, other top players are not offering this type of thing apparently, so what would be wrong with going to EG since they are offering it?
platnium division is the top 10% in north america
being top 1% is like what, 1500< in ladder?
sorry =[
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this sounds pretty damn fun obviously and is a interesting idea, but the real question is will it be WORTH the price tag there asking for?
i see alot of ppl saying "250$ for a weekends worth of SC2 knowledge will be very worth it!" or something similar. but i must ask the question how is it worth it? your paying 250$ to learn things YOU ALREADY KNOW. what can they teach u that isnt on guides of this site or others? its not like they are going to teach you anything new unless your a brand spanking new player to the SC universe.
and lets say they do teach you something new. your still going to need to practice this on you own once the training camp finishes and you wont jump from say copper lvl player to gold/plat player in just 3 days time.
basically the stuff they will teach u ins things you can easily learn yourself on your own time. after all how do u think THEY learned? you think some of these top players learned SC from going to countless training camps? no they learned on there own time and with there own skill and you can do the same.
im not telling anyone how to spend there money because its there money, but all im saying is your paying to "learn" things that you already know. the only difference is someone is going to baby feed that knowledge to u in person.
but i guess what im talking about will only account for the ppl that have been playing and following the SC scene for years and been playing on sc2 beta for months now. the newer players or players that just cannot get good on there own skill will probally benefit from this the most. in which case gl to u guys.
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On May 11 2010 10:58 GreggSauce wrote:
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet.
1. I watch streams, I watch them quite a lot, nony,lz, psyonic, attero, goatrope, pimpmoo, ryan, sen, artosis...
What this means is that I get a basic understanding of what builds are good etc., then I can go and try to copy that,
but it's not close to someone playing with you and pointing out every single mistake you've made. Also the understanding you get by watching that is, like I said, only very basic and a lot of the time you wont even understand why they go for the things they go for, unless they commentate a lot, which out of all those players only ryan and sometimes pimpmoo does.
2. Yeah I'd pay to be trained by the pro's, and I do think that being one of the best 25 players in the country can be considered pro (if you dont think they are then you're just delusional).
What I would not do is to refuse to be trained by anyone who is not THE best coach in the world.
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I haven't played sc for about 8-9 years. I joined sc2 beta. I was silver at first then easily became 1400 platinum. Getting to platinum is not hard, nor do I think that paying for sc2 lessons would get you into the competitive scene. This is just my opinion of course but I just struggle to understand how hard is it for someone to improve his abilities by himself in sc2 so that they resort to paying for it.
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On May 11 2010 20:30 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 10:58 GreggSauce wrote:
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet. 1. I watch streams, I watch them quite a lot, nony,lz, psyonic, attero, goatrope, pimpmoo, ryan, sen, artosis... What this means is that I get a basic understanding of what builds are good etc., then I can go and try to copy that, but it's not close to someone playing with you and pointing out every single mistake you've made. Also the understanding you get by watching that is, like I said, only very basic and a lot of the time you wont even understand why they go for the things they go for, unless they commentate a lot, which out of all those players only ryan and sometimes pimpmoo does. 2. Yeah I'd pay to be trained by the pro's, and I do think that being one of the best 25 players in the country can be considered pro (if you dont think they are then you're just delusional). What I would not do is to refuse to be trained by anyone who is not THE best coach in the world.
watch and view your own replays. you should be able to learn what you did wrong just by simply viewing the game u played.
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On May 11 2010 21:01 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 20:30 7mk wrote:On May 11 2010 10:58 GreggSauce wrote:
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet. 1. I watch streams, I watch them quite a lot, nony,lz, psyonic, attero, goatrope, pimpmoo, ryan, sen, artosis... What this means is that I get a basic understanding of what builds are good etc., then I can go and try to copy that, but it's not close to someone playing with you and pointing out every single mistake you've made. Also the understanding you get by watching that is, like I said, only very basic and a lot of the time you wont even understand why they go for the things they go for, unless they commentate a lot, which out of all those players only ryan and sometimes pimpmoo does. 2. Yeah I'd pay to be trained by the pro's, and I do think that being one of the best 25 players in the country can be considered pro (if you dont think they are then you're just delusional). What I would not do is to refuse to be trained by anyone who is not THE best coach in the world. watch and view your own replays. you should be able to learn what you did wrong just by simply viewing the game u played.
Please, I've played on iccup before, I'm a platinum player and recently went on a 12 game win streak, I'm not a hardcore noob, of course I watch my replays.
And when people do that then sure they will find mistakes they should have done differently, but there will a) be things you might not spot b) things you will not be aware of that they are wrong to do, because you dont have the extensive knowledge that these guys have.
Like in my practice session with incontrol he pointed out that in one of the games we played, it was a huge mistake to build an immortal instead of going for colossi even faster. I wouldn't even have thought about that if he hadn't pointed that out.
That's just one example of many.
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Canada5565 Posts
Whatever people say, it is definitely not overpriced ~
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I have a few questions about this whole deal, and sorry if it's been posted, but i'm not looking through 20 pages of responses to find things that should be in the first post.
1) Is food cost included in the $250?
2) Will you be picking people up from the airport?
3) How hygienic/clean is this house, anyway? I'm sure this isn't actually a house specifically owned by gosucoaching, it probably just belongs to incontrol and machine.
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On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though.
On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport.
Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.
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On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though. Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport. Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.
"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750
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You could learn equal or more by watching Day9
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On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9
Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while.
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It's a nice idea hope it works out
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"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750
you should read the first post seriouslly man there were your two first questions answered and there is a schedule with lune breakfast dinner so it`s in no way vague.
anyway GREAT IDEA and for food and room quiet cheap, would attend if i hadn`t to fly from europe^^
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I just can't imagine anyone paying that much to get better at a video game, and its not like its gonna make you a top player anyways, just a little bit better. How can it be worth like 300$
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On May 11 2010 22:41 MagicUnicorn wrote:Show nested quote +"We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750 you should read the first post seriouslly man there were your two first questions answered and there is a schedule with lune breakfast dinner so it`s in no way vague. anyway GREAT IDEA and for food and room quiet cheap, would attend if i hadn`t to fly from europe^^
My first two questions were not answered, YOU should go re-read the first post. Just because there is an allotted time slot for breakfast/lunch/dinner doesn't mean that they're going to be providing it for you...
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On May 11 2010 22:45 Tinithor wrote:
I just can't imagine anyone paying that much to get better at a video game, and its not like its gonna make you a top player anyways, just a little bit better. How can it be worth like 300$
If people paid 10$ for an hour of coaching with inc (who is a damn good teacher, and understands RTS games and startcraft VERY well, no matter what people may say about his skill level/ability to play the game) then im sure there are some who would pay 300 for 3 days of coaching from 3 good players with lots of experience in a progamer house setting
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On May 11 2010 22:45 Tinithor wrote:
I just can't imagine anyone paying that much to get better at a video game, and its not like its gonna make you a top player anyways, just a little bit better. How can it be worth like 300$
Well in all honesty, if I didn't have to buy a plane ticket, I would probably do this training camp, mostly for fun, and experience.
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On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while.
How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp?
Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else.
stop bashing, the idea is cool and original.
Like it, sign up
dont like it, dont sign up
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Wow I'm so impressed these guys came up with this, such great entrepreneurs!!! I wish it were something I could take advantage of however I live way too far away to be possible and go to 2 colleges at the same time, just like most others who would love to go have important things holding them back like that. Anyway props to the inventors and I wish ya the best of luck for starting this! I hope there's a lot more in the future!
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On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up
The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this.
An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc.
The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary.
I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway.
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On May 11 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this. An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc. The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary. I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway.
Maybe after sc2 comes out if I'm practicing for tourneys or something I might use their gosucoaching site, $20 an hour isn't bad, lessons on musical instruments cost about the same.
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So $250 to learn a game that the "coaches" themselves don't know everything about? Little pricey for me in that case. Maybe after the game comes out and actually gets competitive and if those people gain success in it.
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On May 11 2010 23:17 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this. An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc. The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary. I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway. Maybe after sc2 comes out if I'm practicing for tourneys or something I might use their gosucoaching site, $20 an hour isn't bad, lessons on musical instruments cost about the same.
I would really recommend it. It's a lot of fun, and you will get much better in areas you want to work on if you use it. That's not to say that you couldn't eventually achieve the same level of skill by simply practicing, but not everybody has time to go to school, come home, and play SC2 all day. Some of us (me) are going to college AND working a job, and have a girlfriend, too. So gosucoaching is a good alternative.
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This is a very reasonable price. At $250 that's something that's very tempting if for no other reason than to just meet people in the scene and see what it's like to play with people that take SC so seriously. I was honestly thinking they would be trying to charge $1000. Very interesting, this is definitely enough value for the cost.
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I'd say its worth it if you live in the area and dont have to buy a plane ticket, it would be a fun weekend
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good luck with your project
I believe it is a good idea
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I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..
Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...
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I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!
IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!
IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for!
On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious.
Good luck anyway with this project
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On May 12 2010 00:06 Toolshed wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 23:55 Kegs.aus wrote:
I hope this doesnt turn into a real life game of CLUEDO!!!!
IT WAS GEOFF WITH THE CANDLESTICK IN THE DINING ROOM!!!!!!!!!!!!! Uham, that'd be something I would easily pay 250$ for! On a serious note, I don't see why anyone would pay so much money (you could buy 5 copies of SC2 for same money) to get some informations you can grab in no time via the internet for free. Being teached does NOT mean that you will get better. I also don't think that it is possible to establish a progamerlike surrounding when machine, inka or Incontrol are around. I mean ... you guys are way to funny to be serious. Good luck anyway with this project
In the defense of this thread, gosucoaching is actually quite good, and provided that the pupil has some level of competence in SC2 and other RTS games, gosu can pretty much teach anyone to be better.
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On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days. It seems like it'd be way too short to acheive any meaningful performance gains. Also I find it odd that you're advertising and running this camp before the game is even finalized and released. For the reasons stated above, you'll have to understand why I have trouble taking this seriously, at least as a training program. Seems more like Space Camp to me..
Whatever the case, I look forward to seeing the results from the people who decide to go. Oh and for the people complaining about the price, it's fair in that they're taking about $80 a day for food, lodging and their entire day...
To be fair, Machine made me a high bronze rated player to a mid platinum player in 2 hours. If you understand the game, and hit a wall on how to get better, they can help you through that.
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On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though. On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport. Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females. "We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750
I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.
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On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though. Show nested quote +On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport. Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females.
I actually have the house in my name, and I make sure it's up to female standards. I do have a girlfriend that I have to impress. ^^ (Insert Incontrol quip here: "LOOK GUYZ PSYONIC HAZ GIRLFRIEND!")
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On May 11 2010 23:42 jamesr12 wrote:
I'd say its worth it if you live in the area and dont have to buy a plane ticket, it would be a fun weekend
Indeed
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Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?
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What if Blizz takes down the servers for a while during the camp?
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too lazy to read so idk if someone mentioned it but yall should have a like before and after tourny to show improvements from the training
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On May 12 2010 00:37 Toast216 wrote:
Didn't get time to read the entire thread, but what happens if the beta stops before this?
Refund, though plane tickets are at your own risk. Buy refundable I guess.
I'm actually planning on signing up for some Gosu Training after launch, I would do it before but I'm worried I would lose to much in the time between Beta Closing and Launch.
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The price is quite low, was it anywhere near where i lived i would take the deal. Not like I wouldn't spend the same amount of money on many weekends doing something else silly.
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On May 12 2010 00:25 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 22:24 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:03 Z-R0E wrote:On May 11 2010 05:08 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
It costs 250$ to attend + whatever you spend on travel and your own food. We will provide some meals though. On May 10 2010 17:13 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
If you are flying, please let us know your flight arrival and flight number, someone will pick you up at the airport. Don't have a quote to answer #3. I'm assuming it's up to typical male standards, but would likely be appalling to most females. "We will provide some meals" Is too vague for me lol. Overall it sounds to me like this camp, overall, would wind up costing around $500-750 I've already posted that we are providing ALL meals. PLEASE read responses made by those who will be at the event.
I already said in my post that i'm not searching through 20 pages of responses. That is info that should be in post #1
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On May 11 2010 19:46 Ballistixz wrote:
but the real question is will it be WORTH the price tag there asking for?
basically the stuff they will teach u ins things you can easily learn yourself on your own time. after all how do u think THEY learned? you think some of these top players learned SC from going to countless training camps? no they learned on there own time and with there own skill and you can do the same..
Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?
I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?
In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.
I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.
I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )
Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.
Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
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United States22883 Posts
On May 11 2010 23:54 JinMaikeul wrote:
I'm curious to see how much a person could possibly improve in only 3 days
Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.
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On May 12 2010 01:04 Jibba wrote:
Far, far more than you could improve by buying a new mouse, pad and keyboard, which cost half as much as the camp.
This is just a stupid response... The post was speaking to the length of the learning process, not a meaningless debate about cost effectiveness... -_-
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Why is it that even here at TL, the best place for competitive Starcraft, there is still a stigma associated with competitive gaming? If someone was offering a basketball camp for $250, nobody would have a problem with it. Eventually I would like to see Esports taken seriously somewhere other than South Korea, but it simply wont happen if even the most hardcore see it as a joke.
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On May 12 2010 01:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
Or what about Basketball? Who needs coaches. I can stand in the court and shoot the ball all day. I'll figure it out in my own time. I mean, it's not like there are coaches in the NBA. All those players are professionals that don't need help anymore to figure out what they lack in their game. Or what about those StarCraft: BroodWar Korean gamers? They don't need coaches. Flash is already the best, what else is there to learn or prepare for?
I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?
In reality. Many people can't learn things on their own about some things. Some have natural talent for certain things and that is why there are super stars/geniuses but then you have those that just work hard AND learn from the best in any way possible.
I know I was terrible at SC:BW until I started getting help from the EG guys. Even you Ballistixz. I'm sure there are things you have no idea how to do and probably don't want to put in the time to learn on your own. For example: What if you wanted to learn how to write HTML? Pretend you're back in the early days of computing and there were no guides or coaches for HTML. What if all the guides you could find were just like our SC2 forums here on TL? Rampant OP's from people with 3 posts claiming X or Y unit is imbalance. If there was a tutor that said: "Hey, for $5 I can teach basic HTML coding." Would you jump at the chance or tell him to fuck off because he's only out to get your money and isn't really interested in helping you.
I worked on a dude ranch during my last year of High School. You would get some of these rich folks that thought they knew how to ride horses and they would bounce around all over the place, endangering themselves and the horse, due to their real lack of ability to ride the horse but they would REFUSE riding help (Which they ALREADY PAID FOR) because they didn't want to look like they didn't know what they were doing. Some of them were smart people though and accepted my help and would tip me extra even though I would explain to them they had already paid for the training but they were grateful for the extra help. (Training I got from my Dad who got it from John Lyons at a week long training camp. God, my Dad is so dumb for going to a training camp and paying a huge sum of money to learn how to do something he could have learned on his own, right? -_- )
Anyways, the basic point is. There are hobbies some people want to learn how to do and understand they won't be the next Tiger Woods or Micheal Jordon. They just want to have a hobby they can do well at, have fun with, and relax to have a good time. To release stress, not cause it because they don't know what they are doing. Why else do we play flag football, or soccer, or little league baseball, or StarCraft? I know I have no desires of grandeur of being a great SC2 player but I know I am a great teacher at helping people. You can ask my CPL team how much time I spent with them before I moved here to Arizona and if they improved at all. I wasn't anything higher then C+ Protoss on Iccup, but I still helped them with basic flaws in their gameplay.
Now look at Incontrol, Machine, Inka, Louder, and LzGamer. They were the top USA players for StarCraft and now they are looking to share their game experiences from not only SC:BW but using their natural talent for SC2 they are looking to help those that want to get better at that game. Look at the guestbooks on the website and see if we are wasting people's time or money. Many of them only want to be able to beat their friends and that's it. Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
For real. Brent is so right here. I don't know what the hell is going on with TL l8ly but everytime someone tries something new and exciting everyone these days is qq'ing.
Would I pay for it if I was trying to become a progamer or just better? Hell yes....
I guess MMA training camps are stupid too. Just get in the cage and figure it out....
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It's not a stigma against competitive gaming so much as it's a stigma for charging people money to teach them how to play a game that probably won't be a viable profession in 10 years. This is compounded by the fact that there's no standard by which to measure the credentials of the instructors. Basketball camp is also taken more seriously because basketball is already well established and for those that aren't pursuing it as a profession, it's seen as babysitting to keep your kid out of trouble. You can't compare that with this... This is a 3-day program for a game not even released yet. Also there is nothing to suggest that this camp will do anything to further any aspirations you have of being a pro-gamer. If you go, just go for the experience of seeing what it feels like to train like a pro-gamer for 3 days, not under the illusion that this is a major step toward becoming one.
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On May 12 2010 01:59 JinMaikeul wrote:
It's not a stigma against competitive gaming so much as it's a stigma for charging people money to teach them how to play a game. This is compounded by the fact that there's no standard by which to measure the credentials of the instructors. Basketball camp is also taken more seriously because basketball is already well established and for those that aren't pursuing it as a profession, it's seen as babysitting to keep your kid out of trouble. You can't compare that with this...
This is so far off base....
First you CAN establish the credentials of the players. Their history in this sport has been well established and proven.
Second every sport is a "game". And every sport has camps charge money.
Seriously look up MMA Training Camps....
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if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
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I think my only question would be about the lodging. From the few vids I've seen from EG, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of sleeping space, especially with another ~15 people+ their computer gear. Are you guys just planning on having people sleep on the floor?
It might be cool to cast a tourney of the people who go on livestream and have have LZ commentate about what they came to the camp wanting to improve and show their progress.
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On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it?
Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts?
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Every single type of serious coaching and training camp is a longterm process. Are you seriously comparing weeks, months or years of training in well established sports to a 3-day stint in a pro-gamer house for a video game that nobody will care about in a decade?
Also no, there is no way to measure their credentials as instructors. Being good at something does not automatically mean you have the ability to teach it. There are plenty of great guitar players. The vast majority would make horrible instructors.
As for the MMA training camp analogy, please find a 3-day training camp that's taken seriously in the MMA industry and I might be inclined to take this analogy seriously...
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On May 12 2010 01:01 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:
I grew up on a 70 acre horse ranch. My dad was a horseback riding teacher. People would pay to ride a horse properly. Why didn't they just get a horse and just learn how to ride it? You can basically learn yourself on your own time, right?
That pretty much sums up your entire post. Just a slew of terrible comparisons. I can't believe you wasted that many words just going from one horrible comparison to the next. Horseback riding can be dangerous and so it would be unwise to learn it yourself. It's nothing at all like learning SC 2.
Some just want to get to Silver and be content there. Not everybody wants to be the best, they just want to understand and enjoy a great game.
If someone is going to attend your camp in order to get to Silver then there is something mentally wrong with them.
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On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts?
lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this
because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community
since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right?
what kind of expert am i in this "industry?"
you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching?
im still giggling uncontrollably
...my post count has been brought into this
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On May 12 2010 01:38 atarianimo wrote:
Why is it that even here at TL, the best place for competitive Starcraft, there is still a stigma associated with competitive gaming? If someone was offering a basketball camp for $250, nobody would have a problem with it. Eventually I would like to see Esports taken seriously somewhere other than South Korea, but it simply wont happen if even the most hardcore see it as a joke.
It's most likely seen as a joke as the game is still in beta, the people coaching has yet to prove themselves in SC2 and has never lived as a "pro gamer"(?). If this would happen 1 year after the release of SC2 and with people who have proved to be in the absolute top then I don't think people would find it a joke at least I wouldn't.
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On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this
Check out Rule #6.
Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot.
And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
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On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
Edit because I fail at quotes.
He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond...
Back on topic.
I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part).
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On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it
...and you're a forum veteran?
and gamer coaching =/= e-sports
thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA
only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching
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His point was obviously that post count has no correlation to one's knowledge of the industry. Where exactly does RULE #6 refute that?
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On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching
Well if there is no gamer coaching industry, I suppose nobody will sign up.
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Well if I had money to throw away and nothin better to do with it, I'd probably sign up for this with the attitude of going to a fantasy camp...
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I guess most of you against this idea have never played a sport before... because this is exactly what most Football, baseball, basketball, and Soccer sports do.
I've been to numerous 3-4 day camps for Soccer and a few for Football while growing up. You can learn ALOT from working with someone who is better than you at something. Yes, you wont be a pro in 3 days but you can get better. You don't have to be a pro to coach. All of my Soccer coaches and Football coachs at the camps I went to were College level.
I don't see how this is such a big deal. The price is very reasonable. The people hosting it are some of the better gamers in beta, no the best but good. Gosu Gaming has a good history of results.
Why hate on this? I don't understand that. If you don't think it's worth your money, then don't go. I don't think all these negative statements are really justified.
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What I'm hating is not the camp, but the fact that so many people arguing for it are comparing it to legitimate training in established sports to justify their position. This gives people the impression that this is about serious training toward being a professional gamer when it's not. It's essentially a workshop mixed with a fantasy camp for casual players who will probably never be pro-gamers and that's fine so long as you can admit that. I don't believe reminding people of reality is negative. If I said going to Space Camp will not do anything to help you become an astronaut, is that a negative statement? I think I would be helping a few misinformed people save money. Of course anyone else would still be free to go for their own reasons and that's fine so long as they're not going with the wrong impression.
And yes, the price is extremely reasonable.
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Its a good price, if i had an extra 500 dollars to take off work, and and extra 750$ for airfare, and then 250$ for the camp i might consider paying their rent for a month so they dont have to work a low tier job, and i can sleep on the ground for a weekend without gaining any real efficient knowledge since the game is still in its infant form.
oh, also i would sort of like some proof, cause asking for 2 thousand dollars without any sort of indication of where we will lodge, is really shady.
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Stop the hate... If this kinda thing is not for you.. then thats fine.. Leave it at that~ tbh no one cares what surferboi87 thinks.. Blizzard employee's have supported this and so has TL~ like im sure everyone has seen.. this kinda thing is not for everyone but if you guys really going to cry over 250$? You guys should go troll MLG Halo team who makes 2k A PERSON.. YES A PERSON.
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I think it would be a really great weekend with some beer, some stories, and some SC2. I'd go for the fun of it, and being the stellar copper level player that I am (just got my new SC2 computer yesterday), I'm sure I could learn a lot. Heck I just paid about $1,200 for a new comp basically so I could now play SC2, I'd sure pay $250 for an SC2 weekend and sleep on the floor if necessary. Who cares if the trainers aren't the best, or it's in beta, or whatever other hater reason you have. It'll be a nerdilicious great event.
Good luck guys. I will be following your progress. I would sure watch the reality show if you can sell the idea to MTV or another network.
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On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this
Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence.
I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills.
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On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching
More so than you are.
Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo.
I personally think this training camp is a bit much for me, but it's a good idea. There have been tons of other video game camps that ask for prices much more exorbitant than $250. It's perfectly reasonable considering food and lodging is being included.
And how is gamer coaching not an industry? The pro teams in Korea have COACHES. Yes, that's right gamer coaches. Just because it's not big here in the US doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Fucking ignorant.
Yea, this camp probably won't help you go pro, but how many people who have gone to 3-4 day soccer and basketball camps went pro themselves? It's simply supposed to be a fun, enlightening experience. If it's too expensive or just too much for you then fine. State your opinion and move on. No need to stay in this thread to flame and troll.
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On May 11 2010 21:18 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 21:01 Ballistixz wrote:On May 11 2010 20:30 7mk wrote:On May 11 2010 10:58 GreggSauce wrote:
1. only lower level players will benefit from this right now, but lower level players need babysitting, which can EASILY be done through streaming of some sort, human interaction isn't necessary, just a streaming with a mic.
2. i'm not that great of a player, before I started goofing off I was just shy of the top 100 US rankings and judging from their recent performance theres absolutely nothing I could learn from them. Which is the case for probably all "real platinum" players. by real I mean players that understand the concepts in SC2 and don't just do a few unit combo's for each matchup and scream imba whenever it doesn't work.
With this, the sweet spot will probably be silver/gold players with good mechanics but poor strategies/timings, this would probably be mostly strong CoH/DoW II players where timing windows don't really exist.
and to your first comment about "being trained by the best"
What if you were a college basketball player looking to improve yourself in order to reach the pros would you pay good money to train with another college team, or would you pay money to be trained by the pro's?
the same logic can be used on everything you said. in the end my initial argument was that this is poorly timed considering the level of play they've recently shown, which isn't up to par yet. 1. I watch streams, I watch them quite a lot, nony,lz, psyonic, attero, goatrope, pimpmoo, ryan, sen, artosis... What this means is that I get a basic understanding of what builds are good etc., then I can go and try to copy that, but it's not close to someone playing with you and pointing out every single mistake you've made. Also the understanding you get by watching that is, like I said, only very basic and a lot of the time you wont even understand why they go for the things they go for, unless they commentate a lot, which out of all those players only ryan and sometimes pimpmoo does. 2. Yeah I'd pay to be trained by the pro's, and I do think that being one of the best 25 players in the country can be considered pro (if you dont think they are then you're just delusional). What I would not do is to refuse to be trained by anyone who is not THE best coach in the world. watch and view your own replays. you should be able to learn what you did wrong just by simply viewing the game u played. Please, I've played on iccup before, I'm a platinum player and recently went on a 12 game win streak, I'm not a hardcore noob, of course I watch my replays. And when people do that then sure they will find mistakes they should have done differently, but there will a) be things you might not spot b) things you will not be aware of that they are wrong to do, because you dont have the extensive knowledge that these guys have. Like in my practice session with incontrol he pointed out that in one of the games we played, it was a huge mistake to build an immortal instead of going for colossi even faster. I wouldn't even have thought about that if he hadn't pointed that out. That's just one example of many.
so your going to pay 250$ + other hidden fees (like food/plane ticket price/gas price/etc) for someone to point this out to u even tho u could have found it out with enough practice of testing your builds?
ever heard of the saying called "practice makes perfect"? but that is you, im not going to tell u or anyone else how to spend there money. but it really is a waste if you consider all the useful things you can buy with that 250$. especially since even if u do go to this training camp and become good its not going to reward you in return. once the money u spend is gone its gone. not like your going to compete in any tourneys and win thousands of dollars because u went to a 3 day training camp lol.
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On May 11 2010 23:17 Newguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this. An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc. The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary. I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway. Maybe after sc2 comes out if I'm practicing for tourneys or something I might use their gosucoaching site, $20 an hour isn't bad, lessons on musical instruments cost about the same.
I don't know where you live, but 20$ an hour for musical instrument lessons is a HUGE steal where I live. Average is 50-60$ here :o or even more
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On May 12 2010 03:46 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 23:17 Newguy wrote:On May 11 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this. An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc. The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary. I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway. Maybe after sc2 comes out if I'm practicing for tourneys or something I might use their gosucoaching site, $20 an hour isn't bad, lessons on musical instruments cost about the same. I don't know where you live, but 20$ an hour for musical instrument lessons is a HUGE steal where I live. Average is 50-60$ here :o or even more
Dude...where do you get lessons? I want $20 an hour lessons. :[
In the past mine were all like $60+ an hour.
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On May 12 2010 03:46 Pokebunny wrote:
I don't know where you live, but 20$ an hour for musical instrument lessons is a HUGE steal where I live. Average is 50-60$ here :o or even more
Thats what I was thinking, private lessons for activities are usually 50+/hour.
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I tutor high school and college mathematics at $70/hour; the price these guys are charging is an amazing offer. I'd take it in a heartbeart if I weren't busy with graduate school!
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On May 12 2010 03:38 Lz wrote:
Stop the hate... If this kinda thing is not for you.. then thats fine.. Leave it at that~ tbh no one cares what surferboi87 thinks.. Blizzard employee's have supported this and so has TL~ like im sure everyone has seen.. this kinda thing is not for everyone but if you guys really going to cry over 250$? You guys should go troll MLG Halo team who makes 2k A PERSON.. YES A PERSON.
On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:
More so than you are.
Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo.
I personally think this training camp is a bit much for me, but it's a good idea. There have been tons of other video game camps that ask for prices much more exorbitant than $250. It's perfectly reasonable considering food and lodging is being included.
And how is gamer coaching not an industry? The pro teams in Korea have COACHES. Yes, that's right gamer coaches. Just because it's not big here in the US doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Fucking ignorant.
Yea, this camp probably won't help you go pro, but how many people who have gone to 3-4 day soccer and basketball camps went pro themselves? It's simply supposed to be a fun, enlightening experience. If it's too expensive or just too much for you then fine. State your opinion and move on. No need to stay in this thread to flame and troll.
Quoted both these for truth. The EG members are well known and DAMN good players. Maybe this is for you, maybe it's not. But stop with the flaming and trolling, that's not what TL is about...
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On May 12 2010 03:52 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:38 Lz wrote:
Stop the hate... If this kinda thing is not for you.. then thats fine.. Leave it at that~ tbh no one cares what surferboi87 thinks.. Blizzard employee's have supported this and so has TL~ like im sure everyone has seen.. this kinda thing is not for everyone but if you guys really going to cry over 250$? You guys should go troll MLG Halo team who makes 2k A PERSON.. YES A PERSON. Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:
More so than you are.
Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo.
I personally think this training camp is a bit much for me, but it's a good idea. There have been tons of other video game camps that ask for prices much more exorbitant than $250. It's perfectly reasonable considering food and lodging is being included.
And how is gamer coaching not an industry? The pro teams in Korea have COACHES. Yes, that's right gamer coaches. Just because it's not big here in the US doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Fucking ignorant.
Yea, this camp probably won't help you go pro, but how many people who have gone to 3-4 day soccer and basketball camps went pro themselves? It's simply supposed to be a fun, enlightening experience. If it's too expensive or just too much for you then fine. State your opinion and move on. No need to stay in this thread to flame and troll. Quoted both these for truth. The EG members are well known and DAMN good players. Maybe this is for you, maybe it's not. But stop with the flaming and trolling, that's not what TL is about...
This.
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Ugh if i didnt have my finals that week i would so take off those 3/4 days to do this!
These guys r really awesome, saw em in person during WCG 2009 finals.
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its about post count amirite?
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This is pretty awesome and I would totally do it if I could afford going to AZ and paying the (very inexpensive) $250.
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On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo.
lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me
respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts
i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy
and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down"
... you either are, or you arent
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On May 12 2010 03:38 Lz wrote:
Stop the hate... If this kinda thing is not for you.. then thats fine.. Leave it at that~ tbh no one cares what surferboi87 thinks.. Blizzard employee's have supported this and so has TL~ like im sure everyone has seen.. this kinda thing is not for everyone but if you guys really going to cry over 250$? You guys should go troll MLG Halo team who makes 2k A PERSON.. YES A PERSON.
Fair enough.
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On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:
lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me
respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts
i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy
and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down"
... you either are, or you arent
I'd go and list the things I have done for the SC community but I don't have that much time.....
Seriously go back to gg.net
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On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent
not to mention TL has very little impact on the esports community outside of 1 very small aspect of it.
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For those of you who don't like the idea, there's no need to spend your day convincing others who DO like they idea that they're wrong, or that we (we as in gocucoaching.com) are wrong.
The simple fact is: gaming is a hobby like anything else. People pay money for music lessons, golf lessons, personal trainers, and items in world of warcraft or lineage, and so on. Maybe you're not one of those people. Maybe you think everything in the universe should be freely given or that people should always pursue a free option to a paid solution. That's fine. But do everyone else a favor and keep your negativity to yourself. Whether you troll the thread or not, the camp will happen
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On May 12 2010 03:46 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 23:17 Newguy wrote:On May 11 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:55 phamou wrote:On May 11 2010 22:34 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 11 2010 22:33 Tinithor wrote:
You could learn equal or more by watching Day9 Well...No. There is no substitution for practice, but I think for six hundred dollars, I would rather just stay at home (continue going to work) And keep hiring gosu coaches to help me once in a while. How much is gosucoaching compared to the camp? Good idea, I think it could benefit everyone that wants to be good at a game. Each person its hobby, and I do believe since Starcraft 2 will probably be the best game for the next 10 years (just like starcraft), 250$ at the beginning of the release will allow the participants to be good and enjoy starcraft even more. Its a good investment (10 years of being good, owning people online and feel more confident for 250$). It also gives you experience of a daily pro gamer, how he lives, etc, allows you to travel to a new place. Basically its just like going to a trip to Vegas or anywhere else. stop bashing, the idea is cool and original. Like it, sign up dont like it, dont sign up The difference between the camp and gosucoaching.com is that when you hire a coach, it's strictly 1 on 1, not 3-4 on 8. Anyway, I'm not bashing the camp, I like the idea, i'm just not going to travel out to arizona and spend like 600 dollars on this. An hour with a pro coach averages about $20 on gosucoaching.com, not including the computer, active internet connection, etc. The camp costs $250 + plane ticket (for sake of ease, let's say that costs $100 for a person anywhere in the lower 48.) + food expenses (Let's say they buy you dinner on your last day, leaving you to buy food the other days.) +$50. Plus most normal people are going to have to take off time from work to do this, and that cost can vary. I think it would be a lot of fun, but it's really not as convenient for the 18+ gamer... And anyone under 18 would never be allowed to do this anyway. Maybe after sc2 comes out if I'm practicing for tourneys or something I might use their gosucoaching site, $20 an hour isn't bad, lessons on musical instruments cost about the same. I don't know where you live, but 20$ an hour for musical instrument lessons is a HUGE steal where I live. Average is 50-60$ here :o or even more
Exactly. The lessons on an hourly basis are already extremely cheap. I've been told by literally dozens of people they would pay more. But we like to keep it priced where it's extremely affordable and at the same time, worth our time and effort. So we're not gouging anyone. The camp is sick cheap. I used to go to summer tennis camps for 4 days that cost $1000 a pop and only included 4 hours per day of actual instructor led education.
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I agree with louder.
I would have just made a poster graphic with all the info and contact information, then just closed comments for the thread.
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im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low.
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i hope you guys pick some dedicated applicants, half the people prob will just wanna fuck around lol
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Rofl, this is the funniest post I've seen in a long time. My first reaction was, "who the hell would pay for this?" but after giving it a little though I started to think of the calibur of people I play on the NA ladder and I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in this. I don't think it will make a big difference on anyones skill and I'm not sure that the house should be called a "pro" house, but nevertheless I hope you guys make money off of it and I guess it could be a pretty cool experience assuming you guys work to help whoever signs up.
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On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low.
Agreed! No one's ever made any money off of their hobbies before. For example, there are no cash tournaments for poker, nor will there ever be.
/sarcasm.
Dude, there are even cash tournaments for Pokemon, Magic, and Yu-Gi-Oh cards...
And StarCraft 2 is still in the beta stage and there are already cash tournaments that give thousands of dollars to the winners! It can become really big, especially in the United States. If you're really interested in it, this camp won't hurt.
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Thats what I was thinking, private lessons for activities are usually 50+/hour.
I've been moonlighting as a upper level math tutor for $30 an hour but all my work is done online which is nice. I just think that helping someone in SC2 isn't much different than math. You learn to get better at SC by playing games and learning from those experiences and in math you do problems and learn from them. Tutoring is about pushing people in the right direction which is very easy and pays very good for the small amount of effort involved.
I do like seeing e-sports being more and more commercialized though. I'd like an ESPN for e-sports in america.... some day before i die. :D
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On May 12 2010 04:04 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:
lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me
respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts
i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy
and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down"
... you either are, or you arent
I'd go and list the things I have done for the SC community but I don't have that much time.....
...oh
i did not know, sir
im so sorry, i'll be on my way now
+ Show Spoiler +you clearly deserve more respect than you'll ever give
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On May 12 2010 04:14 starcraft911 wrote:
Rofl, this is the funniest post I've seen in a long time. My first reaction was, "who the hell would pay for this?" but after giving it a little though I started to think of the calibur of people I play on the NA ladder and I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in this. I don't think it will make a big difference on anyones skill and I'm not sure that the house should be called a "pro" house, but nevertheless I hope you guys make money off of it and I guess it could be a pretty cool experience assuming you guys work to help whoever signs up.
You might be surprised what regular lessons can do for individual skill level. I have a number of students who jumped from copper/bronze to silver/gold within 3-4 lessons online.
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hm interesting idea, i've heard of martial arts seminars but i never really heard of any video game learning seminars.
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On May 12 2010 04:17 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Agreed! No one's ever made any money off of their hobbies before. For example, there are no cash tournaments for poker, nor will there ever be. /sarcasm. Dude, there are even cash tournaments for Pokemon, Magic, and Yu-Gi-Oh cards... And StarCraft 2 is still in the beta stage and there are already cash tournaments that give thousands of dollars to the winners! It can become really big, especially in the United States. If you're really interested in it, this camp won't hurt.
like i said, THINK before you make such wild claims. think of your chances to get that money. its a tournament meaning there will only be a few ppl to get that cash which isnt even alot of money. since its a tournament there will be loosers and those loosers will get shit.
wining cash PRIZES is nothing to live off of. like i said, your chances of gaining money at all is low since your chances of winning these tournaments is low. and even if you do win the money u get is not that significant.
but gullible ppl will always be gullible. go enter one of the many SC2 tournaments they have running and try to figure out your chances of even getting in even the semi finals of said tournament. once you do that figure out the chances of you getting to the semi finals or finals for each tournament after that.
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You might be surprised what regular lessons can do for individual skill level. I have a number of students who jumped from copper/bronze to silver/gold within 3-4 lessons online.
I was actually considering tanking my placement matches last reset so I could enter the Silver Stars tournaments you guys put on.
With that said I'm not sure how much I'd benefit from online lessons. I mean generally I know what I do wrong. I'm bad at remembering to expand creep, I sometimes have poor unit placement/battle locations, I forget to inject larvae every 40 seconds ... Though I guess you guys get paid for your little tricks to help guys like me.
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On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low.
Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy.
/end sarcasm
Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport.
People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it.
Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician.
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This is a steal if people are interested in lessons. Str8 Rippin (Halo team) had their str8 camp and they charged well over a grand per person for the weekend and people actually bought it. The difference between this and that is that Starcraft is more complex than halo and you can learn a lot more in a weekend of sc2 than halo 3. Though at the time, the Str8 Rippin was the #1 team and they had a sick setup at their house.
^good post above me as well.
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On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent
I'm not asking you to roll over for me. I'm askign you to roll over for the OP and stop trolling his thread.
Yea, I'm no veteran (read: less than 1k post) and not well-known, but the OP sure as hell is. Respect that or gtfo.
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On May 12 2010 04:22 billyX333 wrote:...oh i did not know, sir im so sorry, i'll be on my way now + Show Spoiler +you clearly deserve more respect than you'll ever give
I give plenty of respect where do. Don't believe me than ask any of the following people whom will tell you I am as respectful as can be:
Lz, Machine, Inka, Louder, Artosis, QXC, Sheth, Drewbie, Catz, Nony, well ANY player I have ever worked with, which is about every American SC2 progamer out there....
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On May 12 2010 04:25 Louder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:14 starcraft911 wrote:
Rofl, this is the funniest post I've seen in a long time. My first reaction was, "who the hell would pay for this?" but after giving it a little though I started to think of the calibur of people I play on the NA ladder and I'm sure a lot of people would be interested in this. I don't think it will make a big difference on anyones skill and I'm not sure that the house should be called a "pro" house, but nevertheless I hope you guys make money off of it and I guess it could be a pretty cool experience assuming you guys work to help whoever signs up. You might be surprised what regular lessons can do for individual skill level. I have a number of students who jumped from copper/bronze to silver/gold within 3-4 lessons online.
Yea so many lower end players lack a lot of basic knowledge that if they knew they would jump up a league or 2, having some1 almost 24 hours a day you can ask questions and get thorough advice from is really really gonna help there play, 3 nights at a decent hotel is like what 200$ or a little over 200$? I'm usually skeptical about these things but you will defiantly get your moneys worth, its like some sick starcraft vacation or something lol
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Wow...I guess broke college students are really bitter about money? I don't know how people can complain about the cost. It's bizarre. At the very least, it has to shave off time from your self training, which is probably worth it for people who have jobs but still want to be somewhat competitive.
I think this is cool, but...
Arizona in the summer? Ugh. If your A/C breaks your PR is going to nosedive.
I think getting people to bring their own computers is a pretty large barrier. Do you have the funds to scrape up a bunch of $100-200 computers to run on low settings?
Can your grid handle it? Remember Power Outage.
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On May 12 2010 04:32 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent I'm not asking you to roll over for me. I'm askign you to roll over for the OP and stop trolling his thread. Yea, I'm no veteran (read: less than 1k post) and not well-known, but the OP sure as hell is. Respect that or gtfo.
ive always had great respect for incontrol
i always watched him haypro and mondragon reps once upon a time
doesnt mean im not going to throw in my opinion about a sc2 gaming camp and how it will be perceived (currently)
because i respect the op doesnt mean im going to pretend i like this idea
i love this caste system on steroids being more perpetuated by people like you than actual veterans
"go back to gg.net" "...or gtfo" "lol go back to useast" "go back to channel clan x17"
wtf seriously
i havent taken any jabs at anyone in particular, just until some dude thinks hes the tl.net jesus and feels he has carte blanche to walk over everyone he perceives to be of inferior stature
using something as trivial as post count to prove his point somehow
...seriously, grow up
On May 12 2010 04:33 iCCup.Diamond wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:22 billyX333 wrote:...oh i did not know, sir im so sorry, i'll be on my way now + Show Spoiler +you clearly deserve more respect than you'll ever give I give plenty of respect where do. Don't believe me than ask any of the following people whom will tell you I am as respectful as can be: Lz, Machine, Inka, Louder, Artosis, QXC, Sheth, Drewbie, Catz, Nony, well ANY player I have ever worked with, which is about every American SC2 progamer out there....
thats where you and me differ
i give respect to everybody
you dont earn respect from me, you lose it
..seriously, imagine if a pro gamer had made the comments i did, you wouldnt be speaking
thats whats sad about you, your ego, and your personality
you only show your true colors when you think you're of greater stature
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On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low.
Lol at that last statement. How many kids play football growing up and make it to the NFL?
I don't think this camp, as stated a hundred times before, is designed for you guys to become the #1 player in the world, its for the fun times and the experience while also learning about a game that we all love.
The argument here that its not worth is completely unjustified and stupid, 250 dollars is literally 3-4x less than what I expected. They will sell out weekends upon weekends if they want to whatever the price is.
The argument that people are doing this for an unreleased game is equally stupid. How many thousands of dollars worth of prize money has been given out in tournaments for this game that has been out for 3 months? Released or not, this game is popular and people will support it.
If Blizzard gave their approval for this, then why would blizzard pull the plug on the beta, if the organizers for this camp already probably gave info to blizzard on it.
Stop being so negative guys, but if you insist on trolling, go to mlgpro.com and search "str8 camp" and blow your load to that camp. On a shittier game. That costs 10-12x as much.
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On May 12 2010 04:30 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy. /end sarcasm Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport. People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it. Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician.
i never said it was easy. being good at anything is never easy, you have to work up to it. but the thing is you are paying 250$ for someone to tell you "build your pool you hatch at 14 build your pool at 13" "macro more dont let your macro slip". yes that is VERY helpful im not denying that fact, but why pay 250$ + other hidden fees for someone to tell you that? you can learn that just by watching your replays. hell post your replays in a thread saying you need help on certain things and i bet someone will help point that out to you for free.
or better yet if you are willing to pay money for coaching at all why not go try gosucoaching? its hella cheaper then the camp atleast for the same exact thing. you will be paying for the exact same thing but for a cheaper price. the only difference with the camp is that it will be in person.
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On May 12 2010 04:47 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:30 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy. /end sarcasm Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport. People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it. Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician. i never said it was easy. being good at anything is never easy, you have to work up to it. but the thing is you are paying 250$ for someone to tell you "build your pool you hatch at 14 build your pool at 13" "macro more dont let your macro slip". yes that is VERY helpful im not denying that fact, but why pay 250$ + other hidden fees for someone to tell you that? you can learn that just by watching your replays. hell post your replays in a thread saying you need help on certain things and i bet someone will help point that out to you for free. or better yet if you are willing to pay money for coaching at all why not go try gosucoaching? its hella cheaper then the camp atleast for the same exact thing. you will be paying for the exact same thing but for a cheaper price. the only difference with the camp is that it will be in person.
Right. And those sports camps and music camps do so much more than just "here's how to place your foot when kicking" and "here's how to play this part."
The difference is that it will be in person and it will be in a more fostering environment for SC. You can't deny that it'll be easier to concentrate on just playing SC when you're at SC camp than when you're sitting at home with piles of homework next to you or a television playing reruns. Also having someone help you in person is much MUCH better than over the internet. Have you ever had anyone try to teach you how to play music or play a sport via AIM? I doubt it and if you have, it can' have been as successful as face-to-face, in-person coaching.
I can draw a similar parallel to music lessons or simple recreational or school team sports coaching and music/sports camps. Why do people go to music/sports camps when mere lessons or recreation/school coaching is much cheaper or even free? For the reasons I stated above. A SC camp will (if this is run right and I'm willing to give benefit of doubt) focus on primarily SC and the environment will also encourage SC training. A music/sports camps do the exact same thing. The only difference is that music/sports camps are more socially accepted in Western culture than video games.
Like I said in my first post on this thread, it may not be for everybody. I love music and have been playing the violin for over 15 years, but I would never go to a music camp because it's too much for me (both money-wise and just the idea of playing music 24/7 for a week...ugh). Same with this. I love SC but I'm just not dedicated enough to want to do this. But I see no reason why this camp is a bad idea (unless it's run badly) outside of the fact that it's just not as culturally acceptable as sports and music camps.
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how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
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On May 12 2010 05:02 Kizu wrote:
how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
*facepalm*.... seriously what is going on in this thread?
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On May 12 2010 04:41 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:32 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent I'm not asking you to roll over for me. I'm askign you to roll over for the OP and stop trolling his thread. Yea, I'm no veteran (read: less than 1k post) and not well-known, but the OP sure as hell is. Respect that or gtfo. ive always had great respect for incontrol i always watched him haypro and mondragon reps once upon a time doesnt mean im not going to throw in my opinion about a sc2 gaming camp and how it will be perceived (currently) because i respect the op doesnt mean im going to pretend i like this idea
You dont' have to pretend to like the idea. But you don't have to flame or troll either.
Re-read your first post in this thread and tell me that wasn't disrespectful.
And btw, I never told you to go back to gg.net or any of that shit; that was someone else. I just told you to show more respect or gtfo + Show Spoiler +.
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On May 12 2010 05:02 Kizu wrote:
how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
Then why the hell are you posting here? Shouldn't you not be wasting your time reading about SC2 and using your valuable free time playing and practicing the game? I'm sure the only reason the elite level players are elite is because they put in 5x more games than the average Silver player.
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On May 12 2010 04:28 Ballistixz wrote:
but gullible ppl will always be gullible. go enter one of the many SC2 tournaments they have running and try to figure out your chances of even getting in even the semi finals of said tournament. once you do that figure out the chances of you getting to the semi finals or finals for each tournament after that.
Did it ever occur to you that people pay professionals and tutors to actually TEACH them basic and advanced strategies (whether it's in academia or sports or other hobbies) because of a genuine interest in something... NOT because they think they'll make a future career out of it?
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I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
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You'd probably gain a lot more applicants and attention if you open a camp in SoCal in the future =O Asian central.
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On May 12 2010 05:02 Kizu wrote:
how do you name yourselves to be the best of sc2 players given the game is still in beta stage and there will be many changes and balances coming out in the future. and 250$ for what?? build orders and food? because everything else about the game is achieved though experience practice, not just some "gosu" gamer telling you what to do.
You obviously have -1 understanding of what actually makes a player good at RTS :D
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
That's nonsense. So much of the value of lessons is the interactivity and being taught actual mechanics. You don't get that watching podcasts, no matter how amusing and entertaining they may be.
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
I agree 100%
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On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills.
yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know
i didnt say I would make fun of these people and not give the respect to players coming out of this camp
I was trying to say I predict and foresee others doing this
its a regularly occurring human response
people get an ego boost for having the "i did it myself, you dont deserve what i busted my ass for" attitude
I can foresee somebody, who wins/loses against somebody who may become good from this camp, saying somethin sarcastic and idra-like
"congrats, go back to gosu coaching training camp"
and sports are far different from starcraft
+ Show Spoiler +if you develop poor technique at an early age, it becomes muscle memory
example: low release point for a quarter back, slow release
low release point for a basketball shooter
poor dribbling, poor layup technique, poor tackling technique
all the fundamentals need to be learned at an early age
and advanced coaching comes down to advanced mistakes that you may know are mistakes
but only a reputable coach would be able to spot it
example: not a consistent arm slot for a pitcher
camps also help you get stronger and faster through repeated drills
sports are based on physical technique and physical strength
e-sports are based on finger/hand speed + intellect/experience, not something you can make immediate improvements on IMO
is somebody playing zerg going to work on his 1a2a3a 4sh 5sh technique?
sports are played in real life
e-sports are played on the internet
everything can be analyzed through replays
thats just my opinion, not flaming anybody else
User was warned for this post
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
well said
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Damn why is everyone hating on these guys. The benefit of one-on-one coaching is they can tell you exactly what YOU are doing wrong. Day[9] and other in-depth commentators like that tell you what THEY did wrong. Sure they may be one in the same but there is no replacement for individual coaching. It's like learning the guitar. There are tons and tons of resources online, tons and tons of tutorials online. I guarantee you you'll learn the guitar faster with a real instructor personally.
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On May 12 2010 05:29 Kuo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I agree 100%
Well, isnt this their first camp? I guess we can just allow them to prove us wrong. Instead of debating, why don't we just see if this is a success or not? They are not bringing 200 people to camp, he clearly said 8 people out of the whooolleeeeee TL community.
so it might be desastrous for the 8 people, or it could be a success. Let the camp go on and i think we should all comment AFTER. However, if it worked for Halo and other games AND in korea. I am pretty sure those who applied are aware that they will not turn pro or probably don,t have the intention to turn professional sc2 player (if you are in bronze and aren't even good enough to learn yourself then you know you will never be a pro sc2 player). However, I am sure this camp is to entertain, show the basics and just HAVE FUN.
People pay for golf lessons to have a good swing. THey don't want to turn pro, but it is their hobby and they would enjoy more if they were good/better at it. this can be compared to sooo many other camps i dont see why you guys are all complaining about
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On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one
You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity.
And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries.
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On May 12 2010 05:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity. And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries.
reading comprehension? i detected some serious sarcasm, seeing as how over the top your response was
Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER . ^--sarcasm
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billyX333 wrote:
thats where you and me differ
i give respect to everybody
you dont earn respect from me, you lose it
..seriously, imagine if a pro gamer had made the comments i did, you wouldnt be speaking
thats whats sad about you, your ego, and your personality
you only show your true colors when you think you're of greater stature
::clap, clap, Clap, Clap, CLAP, CLAP::
That sums up the problem with the Starcraft gaming community pretty succinctly. But I guess it's a natural progression as you basically take the most ridiculed portion of society (nerds) and give them a structure onto themselves (Starcraft skill). It's only natural that the top players, and by extension the people that are friends with them, to act elitist and angry as it is basically an escape to an area where they are finally the top and not the bottom. It's also only natural that the nerds who are still at the bottom of yet another totem poll would want to gain rep and skill by doing this camp.
And by the way, everyone who has a hardon for post count is an idiot...anyone can spam posts. Rule #6 is pretty stupid also. Respect veterans? These veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers like everybody else (with extensive and obvious exceptions), this need not be a rule if mods do a good job. Take a look at SomethingAwful forum rules, they are far superior. The number of posts from people who do not read the entire thread, just flat agree with the first well known person to post, or flat troll the OP is out of control. Useless, low content posts should be banned with impunity. Posts from people who are asking the same question answered 30 times in a thread should be banned. Telling someone to stfu because you have more posts than them should result in a ban. I agree with people saying they don't want to read an entire 45 page thread to find one answer but if you stick to those rules the threads will be much shorter because you get rid of the bullshit.
With those rules in place we would have a 10 page thread on our hands and I still would never have heard of iCCup.Diamond (but props for everything you've done for the community LOL).
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On May 12 2010 05:47 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 05:32 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the hall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Apparently, you don't need assistance in anything, EVER. Congratulations, but sometimes people could use help or guidance from professionals. That's why there exist trainers, tutors, and coaches, for every type of academic subject, activity, and sport in existence. I assume you never went to school, and just taught yourself everything instead of learned from teachers. You surely had no parents either; you made it on your own, living solely by your own survival skills. lol i didnt even see that response you assumed you know me, im the perfect guy to respond to this yes actually i did teach myself damn near everything i know i thought myself trig through calc III, chem and physics i tediously went through 2 SAT books, and i did 24 practice tests attempting to get a perfect score i dropped out sophomore year of highschool and went to homeschooling but, parents didnt teach me anything, i did i tediously analyzed textbooks for 12-14 hours every day for weeks at a time; did all the exercises and compared my work with solutions manuals thanks for setting me up for that one You shouldn't have dropped out of school; they teach you reading comprehension skills there. The first few lines were aimed towards the fact that despite the fact that YOU may be able to do things on your own successfully, other people may rather ask for a helping hand from a seasoned veteran who has already studied the inner workings of an appealing activity. And as someone who tutors SAT prep for mathematics, I can tell you firsthand that SAT books are great resources, but using books AND working with tutors 1-on-1 and getting actual feedback and talking with a professional is a thousand times better. That's why we have teachers and not just libraries. reading comprehension? i detected some serious sarcasm, seeing as how over the top your response was
Still not sarcasm: Learning on your own + Professional help >>> Learning on your own.
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wow this sounds perfect!!! Too bad I'm located in central Minnesota
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Learning on your own is definitely better, but I know a lot of people that don't understand how to learn on their own. Teaching the pups at GosuCamp how to learn from their own replays and mistakes should probably be something discussed. I think the biggest problem that gold or lower players have is they don't know how to look at high level replays and assess their own problems correctly.
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Why are SCII Lessons worthwhile?
-Starcraft II is a hobby
-People enjoy hobbies and want to improve at them so they can enjoy them more
-Camps and lessons help people improve
-People spend money to go to camps and lessons (money is just an approximation of how much something is valued anyway, people value different things differently, some people spend millions on art, no one is trying to convince them that they are being scammed)
-People enjoy camps and lessons
-And thus the world is good
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I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield.
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On May 12 2010 06:18 OPSavioR wrote:
I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield.
I'm sure it will depend upon each individual's specific level, and I doubt they want to give away too much information ;-)
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On May 12 2010 06:21 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:18 OPSavioR wrote:
I guess they will go through basics like ... wall in with factory to not get baneling busted , bring a probe to your push so you can warp in units fast to the battlefield. I'm sure it will depend upon each individual's specific level, and I doubt they want to give away too much information ;-)
There isn't really that many "secret things" to do to gain a large advantage, there's plenty of obvious things that most people know about but ignore due to either lack of mechanics or laziness.
edit: the camp is about personally seeing and interacting with top players, learning about the game, developing mechanics (I'm sure there will be some kind of training exercises specifically for certain parts of your game eg. macro challenge), timing ( the number two thing people lack), and having loads of fun and a memorable experience.
I don't think they have many "secrets" that you couldn't just google or look for on TL, but I think right now the experience is well worth it if not under priced.
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We had no intention of driving people away with the price at 250$. For those people who think the price is unreasonable I don't think you understand what all go's into making this camp happen. With the cost's of tables, chairs, food, electricity, water, a new switch, also paying for iNcontrol's flight out here I think that the cost is very reasonable. We are also planning on saving some of the money from each camp to slowly purchase new computers so eventually it will not be a bring your own computer event. Then all you guys would have to pay after entrance fee is just the travel. I honestly went into this with NO intention for ripping people off, we are just looking to make a little money doing the things that we love to do. We put out a basic schedule so that everyone has an idea of what they are getting themselves into. For the people who are highly skeptical I just recommend waiting. Their will be video of the event, we wont be hiding anything. We started gosucoaching a couple months ago and I just started thinking to myself, "hey this coaching is going so well, what if we were able to coach people in person?" We have what no one else in the US has at the moment, a house full of dedicated starcraft 2 nerd's with no life who would not mind having people come over to coach. Yes people can learn through online lessons, but their are a couple more advantages to offline coaching that online cannot offer. For three days everyone will be fully submerged in a house of dedicated starcraft 2 players. Even through three days of practice and the ability to converse and analyze in person some of the best starcraft 2 player's that the game has to offer at the moment should be enough to satisfy most people. We just hope you guys enjoy it, and hopefully we will have many more in the future.
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I know everyone has to earn an income, but i don't like the way this is going.
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On May 12 2010 06:29 Brad wrote:
I know everyone has to earn an income, but i don't like the way this is going.
Towards high level players being able to earn an income using the same skills that they practice so hard on? That's a horrible future, we wouldn't want that. Then the players might practice more and be even better! Let's put an end to this.
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On May 12 2010 06:29 Machine[USA] wrote:
We had no intention of driving people away with the price at 250$. For those people who think the price is unreasonable I don't think you understand what all go's into making this camp happen.
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried giving private lessons for StarCraft? I assume it's not too different than math or tennis tutoring, and you could make $50-100 per hour if you advertise properly and word gets out that you know your shit. (What's the cost of GosuCoaching?) Quite frankly, everyone here who isn't bashing you guys for doing this, thinks that $250 is amazingly cheap. Food for thought next time around, since you guys are dedicating more than 15 hours of hardcore tutoring (not to mention room and board and food and everything else), which means you're really charging like... less than 20 bucks per hour of focused improvement. I suppose it was just to test to the waters.
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Would sign up if i was in the area.
Pricing is kind of cheap, considering you are supplying meals. It sucks that people have to bring their own computer though, that makes this tough.
Really though, people are paying like 10$ an hour of actual coaching here, which is a great price for private coaching. Especially considering it's a what, 2:1 student:coach ratio?
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i dont see why some ppl r against this. seems like a totally legit and awesome idea. these guys has been coaching for quite a while now and its legit and most ppl seem to end up thinking it was worth the money, so its not some scam... go if u wanna go stay if u think its too expensive. gosucoaching.com is a great example of ppl making esports bigger and better
my personal opinion on this is if u wanna become a top player and is not very good atm. then just play and u will learn, thats how everyone else did. and if u dont have time to become a great player on ur own then u wont keep on high level as the new patches and new strats come and when the overall bar gets higher u cant keep up unless u keep paying ppl money to make u better. but if u just wanna learn more about the game and not become a hardcore gamer i think this sounds like a perfect deal
i might start teaching for money too but i think im too bad for that xd its rly fun tho
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Everyone trolling this thread - please stop, people making money off of teaching others how to improve on a hobby is not the first time in history. BELIEVE IT OR NOT !
Sure you can use the argument that its only a beta, but these guys are still very experienced rts players and know what it takes to become a good player.
Remember that you're paying for more than the actual lessons as shown - food, place to stay etc, but last but not least the experience.
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honestly 250 is nothing for 3 days of training, especially with the hours you're putting in. I'm sure many will be trying to attend this.
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On May 12 2010 02:43 Kralic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it Edit because I fail at quotes. He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond... Back on topic. I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part).
your honestly going to argue with an iccup admin? Get Out.
edit: and dont bring my post count into this, im a lurker not a poster. besides 69 > all
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tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha...
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On May 12 2010 06:52 Sky.Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 02:43 Kralic wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it Edit because I fail at quotes. He has been registered at this site longer than you Diamond... Back on topic. I support this intiative, if you go to a fantasy camp to get better at something you usually do. Most camps do not have the best pro's in the field but they do have people a lot better than the people attending the camp and do learn something and take away the experience and knowledge(for the most part). your honestly going to argue with an iccup admin? Get Out.
Nice contribution to the thread. I was stating a fact that the person who he claimed was not a forum vet had actually made his account before Diamond made his. I do not know how that is arguing. I have not hurt Diamonds feelings(well that shouldn't have) I did not call Diamond anything bad... So I don't get why you are so hurt over the fact I stated.
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On May 12 2010 05:47 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +billyX333 wrote:
thats where you and me differ
i give respect to everybody
you dont earn respect from me, you lose it
..seriously, imagine if a pro gamer had made the comments i did, you wouldnt be speaking
thats whats sad about you, your ego, and your personality
you only show your true colors when you think you're of greater stature
::clap, clap, Clap, Clap, CLAP, CLAP:: That sums up the problem with the Starcraft gaming community pretty succinctly. But I guess it's a natural progression as you basically take the most ridiculed portion of society (nerds) and give them a structure onto themselves (Starcraft skill). It's only natural that the top players, and by extension the people that are friends with them, to act elitist and angry as it is basically an escape to an area where they are finally the top and not the bottom. It's also only natural that the nerds who are still at the bottom of yet another totem poll would want to gain rep and skill by doing this camp. And by the way, everyone who has a hardon for post count is an idiot...anyone can spam posts. Rule #6 is pretty stupid also. Respect veterans? These veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers like everybody else (with extensive and obvious exceptions), this need not be a rule if mods do a good job. Take a look at SomethingAwful forum rules, they are far superior. The number of posts from people who do not read the entire thread, just flat agree with the first well known person to post, or flat troll the OP is out of control. Useless, low content posts should be banned with impunity. Posts from people who are asking the same question answered 30 times in a thread should be banned. Telling someone to stfu because you have more posts than them should result in a ban. I agree with people saying they don't want to read an entire 45 page thread to find one answer but if you stick to those rules the threads will be much shorter because you get rid of the bullshit. With those rules in place we would have a 10 page thread on our hands and I still would never have heard of iCCup.Diamond (but props for everything you've done for the community LOL).
If you don't like the idea of post count being important then you're at the wrong site. If you think the forum veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers and you don't like the idea of respecting them you're at the wrong site. If you think the rules at SomethingAwful are superior, you're at the wrong site. If you think you know who deserves to be banned and you're not a mod you're at the wrong site. If you don't like the elitist totem pole that is TL then you're at the wrong site.
Yes, you can spam posts, but it's highly unlikely that someone's going to spam up 1k post and not have ever posted anything worthwhile.
Bottom line: If you don't like the rules then YOU'RE AT THE WRONG SITE.
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On May 12 2010 06:31 stormtemplar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:01 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 03:44 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:45 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:38 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:15 billyX333 wrote:On May 12 2010 02:10 iCCup.Diamond wrote:On May 12 2010 02:09 billyX333 wrote:
if anybody actually got good through this 'training camp'
their name would permanently live in the wall of shame
no body would give them any respect, and people would constantly refer to it as a joke
no good gamer with any dignity would do this Wow can you tell me the winning lottery numbers for the upcoming week while ur at it? Seriously please tell me what kind of expert you are in this industry and how you KNOW this info in your 100 posts? lol what? i think its absolutely hilarious that you'd bring my POST count into this because i don't care to offer my opinion frequently as you clearly makes me less informed on the community since post count reflects time spent in the community and posts read as well, am i right? what kind of expert am i in this "industry?" you mean this non-existent industry of gamer coaching? im still giggling uncontrollably ...my post count has been brought into this Check out Rule #6.Yes, post count does mean something around here. it means actually a hell of a lot. And the industry is E-Sports. Google it ...and you're a forum veteran? and gamer coaching =/= e-sports thats like analogizing dick's sporting goods with the NBA only sporting goods actually is an industry, unlike gamer coaching More so than you are. Does anyone ever read the TL forum rules anymore? It doesn't matter what you think. It doesn't matter if you think post count has no correlation to the topic at hand. It matters to TL. If you don't like it, gtfo. lol i'm not going to roll over for everybody with a higher post count than me respecting forum veterans =/= respecting every single guy with more posts i know who i'd consider veterans, and its neither you nor that other guy and i dont think about who is "more of a veteran than another guy, therefor the lesser veteran should bow down" ... you either are, or you arent Look, your on TL.net right now, and my friend, Lzgamer, Iccup.diamond, And another guy with more posts than you told you to quit it. Its not your job to decide what does or doesn't go round these here parts. So shut up.
sorry i didn't realize i was posting in the wild wild west, sheriff
wont happen again
and what are you insisting i quit, again?
am i not allowed the same respect solely because of post count? disagreeing and debate not allowed round these parts?
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Calgary25980 Posts
On May 12 2010 06:54 NightOne wrote:
tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha...
If they played it right, started an LLC, claimed the trip as a shareholders' meeting, charged and paid tax on the $250 and claimed the expenses as business expenses they probably would come out farther ahead than not declaring the income. Especially since you could make the case that the house, and hence the majority of the rent and utilities, were for the business.
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On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this.
I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate.
Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell.
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On May 12 2010 07:00 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 06:54 NightOne wrote:
tax-free if u dont report this as "income" ! haha... If they played it right, started an LLC, claimed the trip as a shareholders' meeting, charged and paid tax on the $250 and claimed the expenses as business expenses they probably would come out farther ahead than not declaring the income. Especially since you could make the case that the house, and hence the majority of the rent and utilities, were for the business.
You're a fucking mind reader
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On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell.
the thing about poker coaching is they dont teach you necessarily what to think, they teach you how to think
you can can apply the concepts,insights and critical analyses yourself
there are far too many unique situations in poker
which is why i think listening to commentary would be of greater use
you will learn to apply concepts to separate situations by yourself
if you learn to critically analyze your own play on your own, you'd be better served for the future IMO
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I love the idea. if only it were here in California...and was free =D
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On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell.
I think the thing is, if people have such a strong desire to become one of the top players these hours of coaching will be nothing in comparison of what needs to be done. If you cant improve on your own this camp will only do good for the first few weeks. Then you will be stuck again not knowing how to get forward and again you will seek help from coaching and stuff. This will never last in the long run.
There are people who got help from others pointing out flaws who ended up being top players, but none of these payed for it. This is because the amount of time you need to put into helping a player cant be covered by paid lessons.
Of course, as long as people are willing to pay, Gosucoaching should continue, but I get the feeling that they are blowing things out of proportion and giving players hope of getting really good by trying to cheat their way up to the top (not putting in the hours required).
My advice for everyone who wants to become really good is to start out by playing the game for the joy rather than playing to become a progamer. I wont say everyone, but pretty close to all the top gamers today started out with gaming because they had a lot of fun playing and in the end they just happened to become good players.
As with everything, I dont think people realize how much time it actually takes to become the very best at something.
So in conclusion, if you want to spend some money and hang out with other starcraft players go ahead, but you should not expect to become a top player with this method.
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On May 12 2010 07:10 billyX333 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell. the thing about poker coaching is they dont teach you necessarily what to think, they teach you how to think you can can apply the concepts,insights and critical analyses yourself there are far too many unique situations in poker which is why i think listening to commentary would be of greater use you will learn to apply concepts to separate situations by yourself if you learn to critically analyze your own play on your own, you'd be better served for the future IMO
Billy, no one is denying your right to an opinion. The problem is this isn't the appropriate forum to voice it. We get that you wouldn't pay for the training but there are hundreds of others that happily will. Do us all a favor and create your own thread about how to train yourself and leave this thread for those that want to train.
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sigh.. if someone wants to go to the camp let them go.. u dont have to blatantly discourage others from trying something new..
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On May 12 2010 07:30 ZpuX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell. I think the thing is, if people have such a strong desire to become one of the top players these hours of coaching will be nothing in comparison of what needs to be done. If you cant improve on your own this camp will only do good for the first few weeks. Then you will be stuck again not knowing how to get forward and again you will seek help from coaching and stuff. This will never last in the long run. There are people who got help from others pointing out flaws who ended up being top players, but none of these payed for it. This is because the amount of time you need to put into helping a player cant be covered by paid lessons. Of course, as long as people are willing to pay, Gosucoaching should continue, but I get the feeling that they are blowing things out of proportion and giving players hope of getting really good by trying to cheat their way up to the top (not putting in the hours required). My advice for everyone who wants to become really good is to start out by playing the game for the joy rather than playing to become a progamer. I wont say everyone, but pretty close to all the top gamers today started out with gaming because they had a lot of fun playing and in the end they just happened to become good players. As with everything, I dont think people realize how much time it actually takes to become the very best at something. So in conclusion, if you want to spend some money and hang out with other starcraft players go ahead, but you should not expect to become a top player with this method.
agree with this post, the price is reasonable and its worth it if you just want to hang out with these guys whom seem to be pretty cool guys to hang with. But to actually become a top player this isn't going to do much you will like improve from copper to silver in 3 days then what? If you never had the drive initially to care and practice enough to do that yourself, its only harder to move up from silver to gold etc. So unless you keep paying for these...
however if you feel being silver/1 league higher at the game is much more fun than copper then i guess its worth it..
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
why the HELL are you guys babbling about becoming a top gamer or w/e? Read the first friggin paragraph of the OP.. it isn't even close to ambiguous for what we are offering and it has NOTHING to do with "becoming a top gamer."
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On May 12 2010 07:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
why the HELL are you guys babbling about becoming a top gamer or w/e? Read the first friggin paragraph of the OP.. it isn't even close to ambiguous for what we are offering and it has NOTHING to do with "becoming a top gamer."
I guess I am just being ignorant, but I dont see the different between copper and silver, or even copper and low/mid platinum... "completely revamping, boosting and refining the skills" seems to be a lot more than just moving up one league on battle net.
But as I already said, I am just giving my view on taking lessons at a computer game. Of course people will voice their opinion when something like this comes up in a discussion forum.
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On May 12 2010 08:13 ZpuX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
why the HELL are you guys babbling about becoming a top gamer or w/e? Read the first friggin paragraph of the OP.. it isn't even close to ambiguous for what we are offering and it has NOTHING to do with "becoming a top gamer." I guess I am just being ignorant, but I dont see the different between copper and silver, or even copper and low/mid platinum... "completely revamping, boosting and refining the skills" seems to be a lot more than just moving up one league on battle net. But as I already said, I am just giving my view on taking lessons at a computer game. Of course people will voice their opinion when something like this comes up in a discussion forum.
Why the fuck would I pay for these guitar lessons when I know I wont become any Jimi Hendrix??
Imean I'll never become a top guitarist taking lessons from this teacher but atleast i'll learn some songs, isn't that worth it?
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On May 12 2010 07:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
why the HELL are you guys babbling about becoming a top gamer or w/e? Read the first friggin paragraph of the OP.. it isn't even close to ambiguous for what we are offering and it has NOTHING to do with "becoming a top gamer."
But guys, I refuse to pay you all seven million dollars, because there's no way you can guarantee that I'll become as good as Jaedong... and besides, I can teach myself everything all on my own, which is why I frequently go on sites like TeamLiquid.net and ask a lot of questions!
Oh wait, did I pretty much sum up all of the bullshit strawman arguments that everyone is posting in this thread? I love how haters decide to not read the original post and then voice their ignorant, irrelevant opinions -.-'
Don't worry fellas, there are some of us who actually have a brain ;-)
And advertising this service is an awesome idea. Those who disagree with the service should simply not use it.
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Really cool idea. My minor suggestion would be to change it to a 5 day camp, and take half the day off of the third or forth day to go do something unrelated to starcraft.
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On May 12 2010 08:30 4iner wrote:
Really cool idea. My minor suggestion would be to change it to a 5 day camp, and take half the day off of the third or forth day to go do something unrelated to starcraft.
That's a major suggestion IMO :-/
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Do you have an application deadline? Sounds interesting, dunno why so many people are giving you negative feedback about it.
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If you don't like the idea of post count being important then you're at the wrong site. If you think the forum veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers and you don't like the idea of respecting them you're at the wrong site. If you think the rules at SomethingAwful are superior, you're at the wrong site. If you think you know who deserves to be banned and you're not a mod you're at the wrong site. If you don't like the elitist totem pole that is TL then you're at the wrong site.
Yes, you can spam posts, but it's highly unlikely that someone's going to spam up 1k post and not have ever posted anything worthwhile.
Bottom line: If you don't like the rules then YOU'RE AT THE WRONG SITE.
So you're the dude on Fox News that tells us to get out of the country if you don't like one or two policies, aren't you? The world isn't entirely teenage black and white logic, my little friend. Is this the only website you visit? Wow...
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On May 12 2010 07:30 ZpuX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 07:04 Magulina wrote:On May 12 2010 05:16 MYM.Testie wrote:
I would strongly suggest people who are thinking about taking this offer up just listen to Day[9] dailies instead. I dislike this business model coming to Starcraft. This method of teaching will not greatly improve your skills.
It may be fun as an event if you are interested in this, but it is not an ideal place to progress your skillset as a player.
In the end it all depends on what you want to take from this. I don't agree with this at all. There are both a lot of poker instruction videos, and poker coaches out there. Both is great for your game, however if you get a coach the coach can focus on you and find your weaknesses much faster, things that you might not see yourself. So with a coach you'll improve at a much faster rate. Starcraft and poker are very similar in many ways, so I definately think this applies to starcraft aswell. I think the thing is, if people have such a strong desire to become one of the top players these hours of coaching will be nothing in comparison of what needs to be done. If you cant improve on your own this camp will only do good for the first few weeks. Then you will be stuck again not knowing how to get forward and again you will seek help from coaching and stuff. This will never last in the long run. There are people who got help from others pointing out flaws who ended up being top players, but none of these payed for it. This is because the amount of time you need to put into helping a player cant be covered by paid lessons. Of course, as long as people are willing to pay, Gosucoaching should continue, but I get the feeling that they are blowing things out of proportion and giving players hope of getting really good by trying to cheat their way up to the top (not putting in the hours required). My advice for everyone who wants to become really good is to start out by playing the game for the joy rather than playing to become a progamer. I wont say everyone, but pretty close to all the top gamers today started out with gaming because they had a lot of fun playing and in the end they just happened to become good players. As with everything, I dont think people realize how much time it actually takes to become the very best at something. So in conclusion, if you want to spend some money and hang out with other starcraft players go ahead, but you should not expect to become a top player with this method.
everyone starts somewhere. there are plenty of people that simply don't know what step goes next to get better. it is, yes, a lot of time to be really good at starcraft (or anything). but it's not just time. saying it's "just time" is a cop out of the weak. it takes a certain amount of *quality* time, and some people simply just don't know what the hell you do or what the hell you think to get better.
time you spend with a coach is simply extra valuable time. but, even if, say, 1 hour is worth 10 hours -- 10 hours doesn't make you a 'top player' -- then youre looking at hundreds, thousands of hours. coaching just helps
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On May 12 2010 08:22 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 08:13 ZpuX wrote:On May 12 2010 07:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
why the HELL are you guys babbling about becoming a top gamer or w/e? Read the first friggin paragraph of the OP.. it isn't even close to ambiguous for what we are offering and it has NOTHING to do with "becoming a top gamer." I guess I am just being ignorant, but I dont see the different between copper and silver, or even copper and low/mid platinum... "completely revamping, boosting and refining the skills" seems to be a lot more than just moving up one league on battle net. But as I already said, I am just giving my view on taking lessons at a computer game. Of course people will voice their opinion when something like this comes up in a discussion forum. Why the fuck would I pay for these guitar lessons when I know I wont become any Jimi Hendrix?? Imean I'll never become a top guitarist taking lessons from this teacher but atleast i'll learn some songs, isn't that worth it?
Well you are not spending 72+ hours in the same house with your teacher who claims to be close to someone of Jimi Hendrix level either. And ofcourse it's up to each of his own to decide whether it is worth the money, but how are we not free to argue for which method is the best?
Incontrol and the others created this place having in mind it would stir up a discussion about the gain of taking lessons. Sure they might lose some potential costumers, but the others who still take lessons will probably be encouraged to take more lessons. This because they will probably have even more faith in the words of incontrol when he is able to defend their arguments on this topic.
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As long as they sound the fire alarm at 2 AM and make all the trainees do 1n1 LT with each other, with the winners allowed to go back to sleep and the losers keep playing until they win.
And film every minute of it...
In their PJs...
It will be a succsses!!
P.S. Someone has to randomly scream out "PLAY-GUUUU!!!" during the entire show.
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The last two times I've seen the word "revamping":
On an infomercial for a shitty product, and on a forum for a shitty product.
I'll train anyone who PM's me for less than 12/hr@ paypal. I know for a fact I'm better than several of the players "Coaching" this 'camp'. I just got the beta last week and and constantly reviewing all current tournament, league, and various other replays for strategic influence. I play protoss and terran and can probably teach zerg up to a 1700~ish rating.
I'll be making a forum later but PM if interested. Don't waste your hard earned money on traveling to someone elses comfort zone to let them take use of you. All the training you need can be done via a schedule of playing, reviewing replays, and analyzing deep traits in your game.
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It's a very good idea in my eyes. I would totally do this,but the whole situation with having to bring your own PC is very cumbersome.
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On May 12 2010 09:15 VarsityUser wrote:
The last two times I've seen the word "revamping":
On an infomercial for a shitty product, and on a forum for a shitty product.
I'll train anyone who PM's me for less than 12/hr@ paypal. I know for a fact I'm better than several of the players "Coaching" this 'camp'. I just got the beta last week and and constantly reviewing all current tournament, league, and various other replays for strategic influence. I play protoss and terran and can probably teach zerg up to a 1700~ish rating.
I'll be making a forum later but PM if interested. Don't waste your hard earned money on traveling to someone elses comfort zone to let them take use of you. All the training you need can be done via a schedule of playing, reviewing replays, and analyzing deep traits in your game.
Thank you VarsityUser! This sounds awesome, so awesome that I want to do this in person. When and where can we meet?
But wait, I've heard of a rumor that someone else is offering to do this in person for me like I asked. I wonder where that thread is on Teamliquid?!
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On May 12 2010 09:15 VarsityUser wrote:
The last two times I've seen the word "revamping":
On an infomercial for a shitty product, and on a forum for a shitty product.
I'll train anyone who PM's me for less than 12/hr@ paypal. I know for a fact I'm better than several of the players "Coaching" this 'camp'. I just got the beta last week and and constantly reviewing all current tournament, league, and various other replays for strategic influence. I play protoss and terran and can probably teach zerg up to a 1700~ish rating.
I'll be making a forum later but PM if interested. Don't waste your hard earned money on traveling to someone elses comfort zone to let them take use of you. All the training you need can be done via a schedule of playing, reviewing replays, and analyzing deep traits in your game.
Seriously doubt that
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On May 12 2010 09:02 MMMig wrote:
As long as they sound the fire alarm at 2 AM and make all the trainees do 1n1 LT with each other, with the winners allowed to go back to sleep and the losers keep playing until they win.
And film every minute of it...
In their PJs...
It will be a succsses!!
P.S. Someone has to randomly scream out "PLAY-GUUUU!!!" during the entire show.
I lol'd at that. I like the idea though. Winners get to go back to sleep.
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Guys lets all pay 250 dollars to listen to a full time pizza delivery driver (machine) spew knowledge on how to A click with zerg.
After that you can stare at a wall for 30 minutes before you realize it is actually incontrol talking in his semi-cocky point of view about absolutely nothing. Ever notice how in Ultimate Gamer he got the wallflower card?
Yeah and then you can listen to kelby who should have no short supply of dave/dinos sperm in his mouth talk about how he weighs 145 lbs.
Price: 250 dollars + lodging + food+ drinks + boredom
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On May 12 2010 09:15 VarsityUser wrote:
The last two times I've seen the word "revamping":
On an infomercial for a shitty product, and on a forum for a shitty product.
I'll train anyone who PM's me for less than 12/hr@ paypal. I know for a fact I'm better than several of the players "Coaching" this 'camp'. I just got the beta last week and and constantly reviewing all current tournament, league, and various other replays for strategic influence. I play protoss and terran and can probably teach zerg up to a 1700~ish rating.
I'll be making a forum later but PM if interested. Don't waste your hard earned money on traveling to someone elses comfort zone to let them take use of you. All the training you need can be done via a schedule of playing, reviewing replays, and analyzing deep traits in your game.
This camp's training session alone is for 9 hours a day, over the course of 3 days. That's 27 hours of hardcore SC2 training. That means that even without room and board and food being factored in to the $250 cost, these guys are charging less than $10/hour on strategy alone. So you're actually charging more than they are.
Plus, nobody knows who you are, whereas these guys actually have a reputation for being good. Of course, advertising your own business isn't a bad thing, but you don't need to hijack this thread to do it.
Make your own thread, that way people can troll there and annoy the hell out of you too ;-)
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On May 12 2010 09:51 VarsityUser wrote:
Guys lets all pay 250 dollars to listen to a full time pizza delivery driver (machine) spew knowledge on how to A click with zerg.
After that you can stare at a wall for 30 minutes before you realize it is actually incontrol talking in his semi-cocky point of view about absolutely nothing. Ever notice how in Ultimate Gamer he got the wallflower card?
Yeah and then you can listen to kelby who should have no short supply of dave/dinos sperm in his mouth talk about how he weighs 145 lbs.
Price: 250 dollars + lodging + food+ drinks + boredom
Admins, can you warn him or put a temp ban on him for douchebaggery?
I don't know if I'm allowed to ask you guys to ban people (sorry if it's against the rules- I looked and didn't see anything against it), but he's a really crappy troll who's clearly being malicious for no reason.
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On May 12 2010 09:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 09:51 VarsityUser wrote:
Guys lets all pay 250 dollars to listen to a full time pizza delivery driver (machine) spew knowledge on how to A click with zerg.
After that you can stare at a wall for 30 minutes before you realize it is actually incontrol talking in his semi-cocky point of view about absolutely nothing. Ever notice how in Ultimate Gamer he got the wallflower card?
Yeah and then you can listen to kelby who should have no short supply of dave/dinos sperm in his mouth talk about how he weighs 145 lbs.
Price: 250 dollars + lodging + food+ drinks + boredom Admins, can you warn him or put a temp ban on him for douchebaggery? I don't know if I'm allowed to ask you guys to ban people (sorry if it's against the rules- I looked and didn't see anything against it), but he's a really crappy troll who's clearly being malicious for no reason.
While not exactly your wish it's in the same veign with a dash of lol http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124873
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Incontrol and the others created this place having in mind it would stir up a discussion about the gain of taking lessons. Sure they might lose some potential costumers, but the others who still take lessons will probably be encouraged to take more lessons. This because they will probably have even more faith in the words of incontrol when he is able to defend their arguments on this topic.
**mind explosion**
fucking Scandinavians and their cheap university, being all smart and shit.
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On May 12 2010 10:21 sword_siege wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 09:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 12 2010 09:51 VarsityUser wrote:
Guys lets all pay 250 dollars to listen to a full time pizza delivery driver (machine) spew knowledge on how to A click with zerg.
After that you can stare at a wall for 30 minutes before you realize it is actually incontrol talking in his semi-cocky point of view about absolutely nothing. Ever notice how in Ultimate Gamer he got the wallflower card?
Yeah and then you can listen to kelby who should have no short supply of dave/dinos sperm in his mouth talk about how he weighs 145 lbs.
Price: 250 dollars + lodging + food+ drinks + boredom Admins, can you warn him or put a temp ban on him for douchebaggery? I don't know if I'm allowed to ask you guys to ban people (sorry if it's against the rules- I looked and didn't see anything against it), but he's a really crappy troll who's clearly being malicious for no reason. While not exactly your wish it's in the same veign with a dash of lol http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124873
Heh saw that ^-^
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Braavos36375 Posts
On May 12 2010 09:15 VarsityUser wrote:
The last two times I've seen the word "revamping":
On an infomercial for a shitty product, and on a forum for a shitty product.
I'll train anyone who PM's me for less than 12/hr@ paypal. I know for a fact I'm better than several of the players "Coaching" this 'camp'. I just got the beta last week and and constantly reviewing all current tournament, league, and various other replays for strategic influence. I play protoss and terran and can probably teach zerg up to a 1700~ish rating.
I'll be making a forum later but PM if interested. Don't waste your hard earned money on traveling to someone elses comfort zone to let them take use of you. All the training you need can be done via a schedule of playing, reviewing replays, and analyzing deep traits in your game.
I suspect the people paying for this camp are doing it in large part for the social experience of having fun in a house full of gamers for three days. It sounds like a lot of fun. If they wanted to only get better, they can do the individualized coaching that those guys already offer.
That said, I don't feel you're doing the right thing by coming into a thread, posting about your own coaching business to undercut someone else. Imagine if we let everyone do that..
Random blog:
"I know this blog is great, but I just wrote a blog too, check out my blog!!"
Tourney thread:
"The HDH invitational is great, but check out the ICCup tournament! It's going on soon!!!"
Random stream:
"Forget this stream, he sucks! Check out my stream its way better!!"
You are allowed to voice your opinion and state your criticism civilly, but what you posted is not appropriate. Keep your own coaching advertising to your own threads.
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Braavos36375 Posts
On May 12 2010 09:51 VarsityUser wrote:
Guys lets all pay 250 dollars to listen to a full time pizza delivery driver (machine) spew knowledge on how to A click with zerg.
After that you can stare at a wall for 30 minutes before you realize it is actually incontrol talking in his semi-cocky point of view about absolutely nothing. Ever notice how in Ultimate Gamer he got the wallflower card?
Yeah and then you can listen to kelby who should have no short supply of dave/dinos sperm in his mouth talk about how he weighs 145 lbs.
Price: 250 dollars + lodging + food+ drinks + boredom
Okay just saw this, you have a nerdrage issue with the users that run this camp, keep your personal vendettas out of TL.net, goodbye.
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This is possibly the funniest thread I've ever read. So much feelings about this matter.
The mods have allowed the thread to be open. Obviously they have no problems with the team marketing this here at TL.
If the takers know what they are getting into and have the cash to spare, I think it's a great thing for both parts, and I think they could have a lot of fun during those few days aswell.
I would personally never do it but that is from a lot of different reasons that hasn't been mentioned in this thread.
GL to you all ^^;
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btw, theres not anything to do in Queen Creek. its the BFE of phoenix valley.
the closest locations of entertainment is Mesa/Tempe (specifically). i live in the valley and would have loved to be here, but ill be out of town for the summer. :-(
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If I had the money I'd fly up from Canada, pay my fees, and help teach these guys! It's an awesome idea guys, keep it up.
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On May 12 2010 08:41 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +
If you don't like the idea of post count being important then you're at the wrong site. If you think the forum veterans are 25 year old nerd ragers and you don't like the idea of respecting them you're at the wrong site. If you think the rules at SomethingAwful are superior, you're at the wrong site. If you think you know who deserves to be banned and you're not a mod you're at the wrong site. If you don't like the elitist totem pole that is TL then you're at the wrong site.
Yes, you can spam posts, but it's highly unlikely that someone's going to spam up 1k post and not have ever posted anything worthwhile.
Bottom line: If you don't like the rules then YOU'RE AT THE WRONG SITE.
So you're the dude on Fox News that tells us to get out of the country if you don't like one or two policies, aren't you? The world isn't entirely teenage black and white logic, my little friend. Is this the only website you visit? Wow...
I actually hate Fox News (Glenn Beck makes me wanna punch something). But you exactly prove my point. This isn't the only gaming website on the internet. If you don't like how it's run there are plenty of other sites you can visit. You come to this site because you like what it offers (i'm assuming); you're a guest of this site and must therefore abide by the rules. Like they said in the TL commandments, it's their site and it's a private site. Meaning it's their rules and you have to follow whether you like it or not. How would you like it if I went to your house and started breaking your rules for your house like, iunno, jumping on your bed with shoes on or w/e pisses you off.
If you don't agree with TL rules, that's totally fine, but it's too bad for you because while you're here, you still have to abide by them.
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Have you guys considering doing something exactly like this but completely online?
For someone like myself who is middle class, this program is very attractive but is simply inaccessible.
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Let's all pay real money to get good at a game... It's easy to get (fairly) good at on your own (im 1600 plat, 54-26, and i played one week of BW in my life, and WC3 until i got my 25 win icon ^^, Didnt take any coachingg. Not saying i'm good,just saying that for how short i've played and researched, its proven that you dont NEED coaching to be good) I think this is a bit of a scam TBH, but meh, who am i to judge.
Heres a hint: Watch ALOT of pro replays, watch some day[9] Daily's, get some practice partners, review your replays and pick out where you went wrong.
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Emailed! I heartily look forward to a reply, ^.^
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On May 11 2010 11:15 GogoKodo wrote:Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more.
How exactly is 250$ cheap? =\
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On May 12 2010 12:05 BigDates wrote:
Let's all pay real money to get good at a game... It's easy to get (fairly) good at on your own (im 1600 plat, 54-26, and i played one week of BW in my life, and WC3 until i got my 25 win icon ^^, Didnt take any coachingg. Not saying i'm good,just saying that for how short i've played and researched, its proven that you dont NEED coaching to be good) I think this is a bit of a scam TBH, but meh, who am i to judge.
Heres a hint: Watch ALOT of pro replays, watch some day[9] Daily's, get some practice partners, review your replays and pick out where you went wrong.
I'm pretty sure Gosucoaching's aim is not to be just "good". When I consider taking gosucoaching I'm thinking about actual competitive settings in tournaments, not some battle net ladder that anyone can do well on.
I'm #1 in my plat division and at a decent rating and sometimes play vs known players, but I don't consider myself to be "good". I would think that gosucoaching is offering their service for high level starcraft players who want to take part in tournaments and play at a higher level. There is no way that their experience wouldn't be helpful for someone who wants to truly play at a competitive level.
You can do 1 cheasy strat, or just learn one build and play it over and over again on the ladder. You don't have to deal with pressure, or anything that competitive at the 1600 bracket.
My friend who is GOD AWFUL at RTS and was E in iccup is in plat. You may be in plat but there is gameplay far above what you could even imagine. I really think people have to understand the level of skill difference in plat...
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On May 12 2010 12:30 Rubyiris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:15 GogoKodo wrote:On May 11 2010 11:10 Rubyiris wrote:
This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\ Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more. How exactly is 250$ cheap? =\
9 solid hours of coaching per day for three days... 27 hours of coaching total... they're charging less than $10/hour for their services (and this completely ignores the coverage of food, room, and board). How many other tutoring services charge $10/hour?
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Most professional seminars cost $200-$500 for between 1.5 to 8 hour courses. I've been to LAN party's (they're a ton of fun) and aside from that met a couple of these guys and I'm sure everyone who went would have a blast, not to mention the improvement to their SC2 skills. Consider it a bargain because the price will likely go up in future camps.
Kudos to you guys this is a great idea and I wish you success!
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when will ppl finaly learn that being in plat means litteraly shit all, i have seen so many plat users just all in and cheese play to try and get to the top and still epicaly fail
on topic
kudos to those at gosucoaching for trying to get some love and effort into the new sc2 community
gl with all ur future plans/events
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:-/ not going to be able to make it out this time. Timing is bad because i'm needing to fly out to CO for a week in july and I wont have enough money to do both.
I hope it goes well so you guys can do another camp.
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+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2010 12:30 CheAse wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 12:05 BigDates wrote:
Let's all pay real money to get good at a game... It's easy to get (fairly) good at on your own (im 1600 plat, 54-26, and i played one week of BW in my life, and WC3 until i got my 25 win icon ^^, Didnt take any coachingg. Not saying i'm good,just saying that for how short i've played and researched, its proven that you dont NEED coaching to be good) I think this is a bit of a scam TBH, but meh, who am i to judge.
Heres a hint: Watch ALOT of pro replays, watch some day[9] Daily's, get some practice partners, review your replays and pick out where you went wrong. I'm pretty sure Gosucoaching's aim is not to be just "good". When I consider taking gosucoaching I'm thinking about actual competitive settings in tournaments, not some battle net ladder that anyone can do well on. I'm #1 in my plat division and at a decent rating and sometimes play vs known players, but I don't consider myself to be "good". I would think that gosucoaching is offering their service for high level starcraft players who want to take part in tournaments and play at a higher level. There is no way that their experience wouldn't be helpful for someone who wants to truly play at a competitive level. You can do 1 cheasy strat, or just learn one build and play it over and over again on the ladder. You don't have to deal with pressure, or anything that competitive at the 1600 bracket. My friend who is GOD AWFUL at RTS and was E in iccup is in plat. You may be in plat but there is gameplay far above what you could even imagine. I really think people have to understand the level of skill difference in plat...
I couldn't agree with you more there chease.
And Bigdates, being only a 1600 platinum player, i don't think you are in any position to be making those claims and giving people your protips.
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I live in the outside USA so can't really sign up but hey
Just wanted to make a post still, to let you guys know i really like the idea and wish you the best of luck! That w eone-day may see a recruit winning a big tourney.
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haters gonna hate
lots of people dont like seeing others succeed where they themselves fail in life
its called tall poppy syndrome
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On May 12 2010 04:30 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy. /end sarcasm Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport. People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it. Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician.
Except you can actually make a living as a no name defensive lineman. Only the top 10-20 pro gamers in the WORLD ever make enough to even support themselves playing starcraft. (and all of them are in korea)
They also work much harder than any other job in the world. What other jobs can you think of where you practice 14+ hours a day in order to make minimal money? Its just a BAD decision to try and do.
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On May 12 2010 22:44 Tinithor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:30 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy. /end sarcasm Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport. People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it. Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician. Except you can actually make a living as a no name defensive lineman. Only the top 10-20 pro gamers in the WORLD ever make enough to even support themselves playing starcraft. (and all of them are in korea) They also work much harder than any other job in the world. What other jobs can you think of where you practice 14+ hours a day in order to make minimal money? Its just a BAD decision to try and do.
And there will come a day when video games gets its own muhammad ali, but if people enjoy what they're doing why does money matter?
Esports has been around such a short time in comparison to other sports, or things like math, music etc.
It's pretty easy to see that it will eventually take off.
This sounds like a really cool idea taking a step in that direction.
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Why is it every time someone tries to do something to turn SC into a career ppl start qq'ing?
Last I checked in Korea they have SC camps where you go learn to play SC better. Where is all the outrage about them?
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I don't know why people are getting so political about this? Granted, I couldn't afford this camp because I live so far away, but this could be a relatively ground breaking advance in the field of gaming. If only gosu coaching could open up more camps at other places across the country, then the name of affordable pro-gaming camps (and yes, they get paid to game, they are progamers) would be established.
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On May 12 2010 23:07 RoosterSamurai wrote:
I don't know why people are getting so political about this? Granted, I couldn't afford this camp because I live so far away, but this could be a relatively ground breaking advance in the field of gaming. If only gosu coaching could open up more camps at other places across the country, then the name of affordable pro-gaming camps (and yes, they get paid to game, they are progamers) would be established.
Very good point sir
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This is exactly what Camp Woodward went through about 10 years ago when it was started up. Now I'm going to assume some of you know what that is, and I'll assume some of you are shut in nerds who never leave your room, or watch ESPN.
A few years back some "pro" Extreme Sport athletes put together a camp for people to get better at BMX Freestyle, and Skate Park/Vert. Very few people EVER make it professional doing Extreme Sports. So why would parents PAY to send their kids to this camp? Because their kids loved the activity and wanted to be around other people who were good and loved it too.
Today Extreme Sports are held with the same respect as all other contemporary sports. While I don't think E-Sports will reach that I can see it being on par to Poker or Scrabble Tournaments which are often broadcasted on ESPN.
This is why you were suppose to take history in school. You can predict the future by learning from the past.
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It's really hard for a bunch of nerds creating their own progamer hosue to make money off their own part time jobs, if i did have the 250$ i would seriously go, i might of even donated it just cuz i want to see progaming go far, and put some money in tournament prize pools.
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The first page of this thread made me shed a tear cause of all these user warnings, i haven't laughed this much in a while
Good luck with the camp
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On May 12 2010 23:42 Spidermonkey wrote:
This is exactly what Camp Woodward went through about 10 years ago when it was started up. Now I'm going to assume some of you know what that is, and I'll assume some of you are shut in nerds who never leave your room, or watch ESPN.
A few years back some "pro" Extreme Sport athletes put together a camp for people to get better at BMX Freestyle, and Skate Park/Vert. Very few people EVER make it professional doing Extreme Sports. So why would parents PAY to send their kids to this camp? Because their kids loved the activity and wanted to be around other people who were good and loved it too.
Today Extreme Sports are held with the same respect as all other contemporary sports. While I don't think E-Sports will reach that I can see it being on par to Poker or Scrabble Tournaments which are often broadcasted on ESPN.
This is why you were suppose to take history in school. You can predict the future by learning from the past.
Why would you assume that people that aren't meat-head jocks that spend all day fondling other football players in an open field, and reciting no-homo for the hundredth time in an hour, and watching ESPN religiously are "shut-in nerds" ? Your exaggeration only goes to show your ignorance. Think before posting, please...
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On May 12 2010 11:56 CheAse wrote:
Have you guys considering doing something exactly like this but completely online?
For someone like myself who is middle class, this program is very attractive but is simply inaccessible.
Yes, we have some ideas we've discussed. The logistics are actually much more challenging to do this completely online but we'll be trying some new things in the not so distant future.
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On May 13 2010 00:21 Louder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 11:56 CheAse wrote:
Have you guys considering doing something exactly like this but completely online?
For someone like myself who is middle class, this program is very attractive but is simply inaccessible. Yes, we have some ideas we've discussed. The logistics are actually much more challenging to do this completely online but we'll be trying some new things in the not so distant future.
I'll be your first student! See if we can get me out of Silver !!!! lol
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On May 13 2010 00:17 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 23:42 Spidermonkey wrote:
This is exactly what Camp Woodward went through about 10 years ago when it was started up. Now I'm going to assume some of you know what that is, and I'll assume some of you are shut in nerds who never leave your room, or watch ESPN.
A few years back some "pro" Extreme Sport athletes put together a camp for people to get better at BMX Freestyle, and Skate Park/Vert. Very few people EVER make it professional doing Extreme Sports. So why would parents PAY to send their kids to this camp? Because their kids loved the activity and wanted to be around other people who were good and loved it too.
Today Extreme Sports are held with the same respect as all other contemporary sports. While I don't think E-Sports will reach that I can see it being on par to Poker or Scrabble Tournaments which are often broadcasted on ESPN.
This is why you were suppose to take history in school. You can predict the future by learning from the past. Why would you assume that people that aren't meat-head jocks that spend all day fondling other football players in an open field, and reciting no-homo for the hundredth time in an hour, and watching ESPN religiously are "shut-in nerds" ? Your exaggeration only goes to show your ignorance. Think before posting, please...
LOL, man i'm pretty sure that you just took that one sentence really really personally, and failed to read the rest of the post :o
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On May 12 2010 12:30 Rubyiris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:15 GogoKodo wrote:On May 11 2010 11:10 Rubyiris wrote:
This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\ Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more. How exactly is 250$ cheap? =\
dont worry thats probably incontrols smurf talking ^^
just kidding altho it would be a classic move :D
i agree with previous posters on the part that i see absolute no different between copper players to gold. platinum says something at least. this is all gonna be better (hopefully) when sc2 comes out for real
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On May 12 2010 12:30 Rubyiris wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2010 11:15 GogoKodo wrote:On May 11 2010 11:10 Rubyiris wrote:
This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\ Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more. How exactly is 250$ cheap? =\
Because look at it this way, Str8 Rippin (Halo 3 Pro Team) charged $1200 for a weekend of the same thing EG is offering.
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On May 13 2010 00:33 EnderW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 00:17 RoosterSamurai wrote:On May 12 2010 23:42 Spidermonkey wrote:
This is exactly what Camp Woodward went through about 10 years ago when it was started up. Now I'm going to assume some of you know what that is, and I'll assume some of you are shut in nerds who never leave your room, or watch ESPN.
A few years back some "pro" Extreme Sport athletes put together a camp for people to get better at BMX Freestyle, and Skate Park/Vert. Very few people EVER make it professional doing Extreme Sports. So why would parents PAY to send their kids to this camp? Because their kids loved the activity and wanted to be around other people who were good and loved it too.
Today Extreme Sports are held with the same respect as all other contemporary sports. While I don't think E-Sports will reach that I can see it being on par to Poker or Scrabble Tournaments which are often broadcasted on ESPN.
This is why you were suppose to take history in school. You can predict the future by learning from the past. Why would you assume that people that aren't meat-head jocks that spend all day fondling other football players in an open field, and reciting no-homo for the hundredth time in an hour, and watching ESPN religiously are "shut-in nerds" ? Your exaggeration only goes to show your ignorance. Think before posting, please... LOL, man i'm pretty sure that you just took that one sentence really really personally, and failed to read the rest of the post :o
Yea. I guess it's easier to argue one sentence in a paragraph than the point I was making. I love how I gave two examples of people and he assumed he was the shut in nerd.
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On May 13 2010 00:39 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 12:30 Rubyiris wrote:On May 11 2010 11:15 GogoKodo wrote:On May 11 2010 11:10 Rubyiris wrote:
This is a cool idea, but 250$? :\ Ya, that is pretty cheap, they could probably be charging more. How exactly is 250$ cheap? =\ dont worry thats probably incontrols smurf talking ^^ just kidding altho it would be a classic move :D i agree with previous posters on the part that i see absolute no different between copper players to gold. platinum says something at least. this is all gonna be better (hopefully) when sc2 comes out for real
I'm not a smurf
Though that's probably exactly what a smurf would say.
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just watch youtube vids, VODs, and practice alot. save urself 250 bucks
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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On May 13 2010 02:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
also eat breakfast.
and brush your teeth
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United States42695 Posts
On May 13 2010 02:28 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:And Stay in School! + Show Spoiler +and I D.A.R.E. you to stay off drugs.
To get good? Drop school imo. Like Terran, he got pretty gosu.
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On May 13 2010 02:38 KwarK wrote:To get good? Drop school imo. Like Terran, he got pretty gosu.
lol did he drop out school?
dont wanna go offtopic but what ever happened to gosi terran, once the beta came i heard nothing at all about him
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On May 12 2010 22:44 Tinithor wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2010 04:30 Ryuu314 wrote:On May 12 2010 04:10 Ballistixz wrote:
im still so very amazed at people trying to compare coaching to a video game compared to tutoring for being a math major or a professional football/basketball player. its just unbelievable how gullible and stupid people are.
you can make millions being a pro football player during there career and having a math tutor opens so many doors for you to have a successful life. musical tutors is the same, lots of money to be made in the music industry. stop trying to compare it because it is not the same...
the chances of you making any money at all playing starcraft is insanely low. Oh and becoming a pro football player or musician is soooo easy. /end sarcasm Yea, tutoring math or something is much more realistic, I'll give you that. However, exactly how different is this camp from any other "training camp" for sports or music? I've been to soccer camps myself and I can tell you right now I'm nowhere near becoming a soccer pro. Why'd I go then? Because I love soccer and I love playing the sport. People dont' go to these things because they think it'll help them go pro (usually). People go to these thigns because they love the activity and enjoy playing/doing it. Really dude, how much easier do you think becoming a pro sports player or professional musician is than being a pro gamer anyways? Even if you become a pro football player, the chances of you becoming a big name QB is much smaller than simply becoming some no-name defensive lineman. If you use music as an example, you really have no idea how freaking hard it is to actually make a good living off of music. You're either the best (read: yo-yo ma/ itzhak perlman status) or you barely scrape by on music alone. The chances of becoming a successful progamer is pretty much the same as becoming a successful sports player or musician. Except you can actually make a living as a no name defensive lineman. Only the top 10-20 pro gamers in the WORLD ever make enough to even support themselves playing starcraft. (and all of them are in korea) They also work much harder than any other job in the world. What other jobs can you think of where you practice 14+ hours a day in order to make minimal money? Its just a BAD decision to try and do.
not a very good living, though. once your run is over (which is pretty short) you're pretty damn poor if you weren't that famous. or take for example, minor league baseball players. there's no denying they're really good, better than 99% of the population, but they're just not top tier quality and so once their run is over, they fade into obscurity w/out all that much money.
professional musicians do three things throughout the day: eat, sleep, and practice. it's a LOT of work and similarily, only the biggest names ever make a good living off of it. the rest of them have to find another job or give lessons.
i'm not saying going pro for gaming is a good idea. i'm just pointing out that this camp is really not all that different from music and sports camps except for the fact that it's not as culturally accepted in the West.
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On May 13 2010 02:43 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 02:38 KwarK wrote:On May 13 2010 02:28 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:And Stay in School! + Show Spoiler +and I D.A.R.E. you to stay off drugs. To get good? Drop school imo. Like Terran, he got pretty gosu. lol did he drop out school? dont wanna go offtopic but what ever happened to gosi terran, once the beta came i heard nothing at all about him
Yeah good question. JUAN WHERE IS YOU?
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If I wasn't a poor college student I would totally jump on this. Sounds awesome.
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On May 13 2010 02:28 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:And Stay in School! + Show Spoiler +and I D.A.R.E. you to stay off drugs.
thats terrible advice for people who want to get good
uppers and dropping out is your only way of going bonjwa.
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shouldnt there be a faq asking what if Beta is closed at the time of the camp?
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On May 13 2010 05:06 anch wrote:
shouldnt there be a faq asking what if Beta is closed at the time of the camp?
probably should be a faq
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On May 13 2010 05:06 anch wrote:
shouldnt there be a faq asking what if Beta is closed at the time of the camp?
Or you could, you know...read the thread where its been answered a few times already
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
5 people paid and registered, 3 more pending.
We won't be reading over/taking any more applications for this camp but we WILL be doing future camps so if this is something you didn't get in on please be patient, there will be more opportunities.
That being said I am waiting to hear from about 300 more people if they think...
A. The price is reasonable.
B. If this will help at all.
C. If we are qualified to help anyone since we aren't the best ever.
D. If we are exploiting everyone.
E. If Day9 dailies are the equivalent.
I've only heard from 500 people or so on these subjects and I know TL is frequented by 40k people a day or so.. please don't get lazy on this!
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Wow, this thread is full of jealous and angry nerds who just absolutely can`t see how much more FUN (!!) it can be to learn about something you love in a camp atmosphere rather than sitting alone in front of your PC all summer ...
Yes, you can take online SC lessons, yes you can watch replays on your own, yes you can. But, even for a nerd, it can be really FUN to socialize with other nerds, totally immerse yourself in the world you love (SC), and learn something along the way ...
When I was a teenager I was practicing taekwondo (not on any serious level). And our whole group went to a training camp for 2 weeks, near a beautiful lake. We did have 2 training sessions per day but, of course, this camp didn`t make anyone a black belt or anything ... it was just a very FUN break in our summer, where we learned a lot and had a great time and made good friends.
Camps are meant to be FUN. And a little educational. And, yes, all camps cost something. Give these people a break and let`s see how it turns out and what they can make of it ... good luck with the camp.
edit://
(not sure if you was being sarcastic about this or not ... will answer anyway ;p)
A. Seems very reasonable, since it includes room and board.
B. It should.
C.To teach others you need to be a good teacher and like/want to teach, not be the best at the subject matter. Hockey coaches are not ex-superplayers, are they?
D. Lol ... no.
E. No. But you should require your campers to start watching them to make sure they are doing at least something to bring their skill up on their own
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On May 13 2010 08:15 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
5 people paid and registered, 3 more pending.
Out of curiosity, is that three more applicants you're waiting to hear back from, or three more applicants left to choose?
As for the questions:
A. The price is reasonable.
Yes.
B. If this will help at all.
For 99.9% of people, yes. I suppose if IdrA or someone went it might not help them much.
C. If we are qualified to help anyone since we aren't the best ever.
Yes.
D. If we are exploiting everyone.
No, quite the opposite. After paying for infrastructure (tables, pillows,etc) I have to wonder just how little you'd actually be pocketing.
E. If Day9 dailies are the equivalent.
Nothing is equivalent to in-person training on any thing. Sure a person can better from D9Ds, and in-person training isn't required to improve, but the two can't really be compared.
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A. Yes. The only problem is the travel costs (which you can't control obv.)
B. Yes, not only will it help you a lot with starcraft 2, but the experience should also be really cool.
C. Yes, in fact I think it would actually be possible to help people better than you, for example someone could be really good at macro/micro but lacking in their game sense.
D. Lol.
E. No, Day 9 can't provide personal advice to everyone.
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I'm nowhere near Arizona (more like Rio de Janeiro, Brazil), but I do think this camp will be great.
If I were close, I would attend, but not with a "I gotta learn SC2 at all costs with this thing!" mindset even though I'm a fairly competitive gamer - I just think the opportunity to meet, play, and trade opinions with these guys and many others players is something that make the money and time spent on this camp worth it.
People will definitely leave with great experiences and possibly new friends. To silver-gold players you could also possibly leave the camp playing much better, although I'm not sure if a plat player would benefit as much in terms of increasing skill.
Hope everything goes well to all involved.
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On May 13 2010 03:08 Louder wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2010 02:43 MorroW wrote:On May 13 2010 02:38 KwarK wrote:On May 13 2010 02:28 Psyonic_Reaver wrote:And Stay in School! + Show Spoiler +and I D.A.R.E. you to stay off drugs. To get good? Drop school imo. Like Terran, he got pretty gosu. lol did he drop out school? dont wanna go offtopic but what ever happened to gosi terran, once the beta came i heard nothing at all about him Yeah good question. JUAN WHERE IS YOU?
The last I remember of GosiTerran was some thread where he nerd-raged and Chill banned him, he might not be back for a while.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Camp is full!
This camp's roster is complete. We will do future camps so if you did not get in on this one please look forward to future opportunities!
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I'm pretty close by, I'd check it out if I weren't so lazy.
Good luck, have fun!
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The crew at GosuCoaching probably are better than 95+% of people playing on the USA server. However I really don't think the skill gap between top USA players and good platinum players is that large at all. Saying something like, "We take games off Idra," would mean a lot more if this was Starcraft, where the gap between good players and top players was massive, I think in SC2 there isn't that large of a difference at all.
If you're going for the experience, then I guess it's worth $250, I haven't seen other people offering this. If you're going because you get to practice and train with top players, then I think that sounds better than it actually is, because you would probably benefit just as much if you played a lot of games and discussed replays with other good platinum players.
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On May 15 2010 06:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Camp is full!
This camp's roster is complete. We will do future camps so if you did not get in on this one please look forward to future opportunities!
Super cool! Looking forward to seeing pix and vids!
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Wish I'd have known it was only $250 when you first posted it! I'm only 20 miles away too
You should do another for the week after
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I'm glad you guys booked it this fast. Haters gonna hate, but they can't deny that this is going to work. As for the coaches there being better than 95%? Its surely higher than that since they're all on top of platinum league divisions, and theres tens of thousands of people in the beta lol more like 99.95% or so
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Sounds like a great deal of fun since it is only a 5 hour drive or so from SoCal. But unfortunately I have to start working full time to pay the bills so I can't go :O
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A. The price is reasonable.
As long as the food is good ^_^
B. If this will help at all.
I think it can but the only issue I have wth this kinda camp is that, can you guys really get alot of learning done in 3 days - I think a 5 day camp would make more sense! Im sure the first day will be jet lag city and everyone(even with everyone having one rest day) is just getting to meet eachother etc. Then before you know it the camp is over/
C. If we are qualified to help anyone since we aren't the best ever.
Of course your qualified, you already do it anyway with payed lessons!
D. If we are exploiting everyone.
Hell no, this is no more exploitive than online lessons.
E. If Day9 dailies are the equivalent.
Depends on the person, for me watching day9 + all the tournys is alot of learning to take in ^_^
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On May 18 2010 02:14 Vexx wrote:http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24915043027&sid=5000Show nested quote +We’d like to let all of our StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty beta test participants know that the first phase of the beta test will be coming to an end in all regions on Monday, May 31. The beta test will be unavailable for several weeks while we make some hardware and software configuration changes in preparation for the final phase of the beta test and the release of the game. We plan to bring the beta test back online for a couple of weeks prior to the game’s launch to complete our testing. We’ll have more details to share about when this final beta-testing phase will begin at a later date.
We’d like to thank all of our beta-test participants for your enthusiasm, dedication, and valuable feedback during the beta test, and we look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the StarCraft II beta test as the game’s July 27 launch approaches.
I wonder if Blizzard was cackling fiendishly as they read this thread.
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Hows this gonna happen if the beta is going down for a few weeks on may 31st
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On May 18 2010 02:28 Nfinite wrote:
Hows this gonna happen if the beta is going down for a few weeks on may 31st
i believe they said the camp would be cancelled and they would refund everyone.
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On May 18 2010 02:18 Hold-Lurker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2010 02:14 Vexx wrote:http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=24915043027&sid=5000We’d like to let all of our StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty beta test participants know that the first phase of the beta test will be coming to an end in all regions on Monday, May 31. The beta test will be unavailable for several weeks while we make some hardware and software configuration changes in preparation for the final phase of the beta test and the release of the game. We plan to bring the beta test back online for a couple of weeks prior to the game’s launch to complete our testing. We’ll have more details to share about when this final beta-testing phase will begin at a later date.
We’d like to thank all of our beta-test participants for your enthusiasm, dedication, and valuable feedback during the beta test, and we look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on the StarCraft II beta test as the game’s July 27 launch approaches. I wonder if Blizzard was cackling fiendishly as they read this thread.
Lol!!
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On May 18 2010 02:28 stockton wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2010 02:28 Nfinite wrote:
Hows this gonna happen if the beta is going down for a few weeks on may 31st i believe they said the camp would be cancelled and they would refund everyone.
Good to hear. Unfortunate timing by Blizz
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this sounds fun.$250 to me is a reasonable price. but people that live in out of state would end paying x2 or more in the end because of transportation and etc to get there and back. so for me it would cost me over $600+ which i dont think is reasonable for the 3 day event. if i lived in arizona it would be different story. EG should stop acting like there the best sc2 players in america because all of you are overrated seriously. But i support u guys doing these stuff/gosucoaching.com trying to make the sc2 community more active.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Yeah I am contacting everyone who paid. We obviously need to reschedule etc.
Unfortunate but this is how a beta is.
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At least Blizzard told us in (a little) advance, so there is time for you guys to reschedule.
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On May 18 2010 03:12 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Yeah I am contacting everyone who paid. We obviously need to reschedule etc.
Unfortunate but this is how a beta is.
What are you guys gonna do? Refund, or postpone?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Both.
We are postponing the camp and giving full refunds to everyone that paid and doesn't want their money going towards the next camp.
Everyone has been really nice and understandable about it thus far.
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Very bad luck on the beta going down for those weeks but I applaud you guys for putting this off and I hope you get to do one before beta ends (and more once we go live).
Kudos!
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Ahhh I have to wait longer for fun vids of the first training camp. Dang I was looking forward to those =\
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On May 18 2010 05:45 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Both.
We are postponing the camp and giving full refunds to everyone that paid and doesn't want their money going towards the next camp.
Everyone has been really nice and understandable about it thus far.
So i'm assuming the people that paid will get first dibs on the next available gosu camp?
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so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
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Get TLO and DeMuslim etc to make a europe camp :D
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On May 18 2010 23:54 finalboss wrote:
so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
Sure your opinion on a subject that doesn't even remotely concern you is so important. oh well.
GL for the camp tho, it's a really nice initiative and it should inspire more people to do it all around the world
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 18 2010 23:54 finalboss wrote:
so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
Don't take it personal bud. We don't know you from adam and we don't take every random warning 100% serious and start canceling stuff.
Camp is going to be rescheduled and we will give 1st priority to those that paid. So if they can go they will.
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On May 18 2010 23:54 finalboss wrote:
so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
Dude your warning is not a bomb threat. You didn't link to any blizzard thread posting an end date of beta. No one had any reason to listen to you or believe you, so many people troll that its impossible to tell whether the boy who cries wolf actually saw a wolf.
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well i can't just straight up say "i know people in blizzard who are going to cut it early", nobody believes that shit
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On May 18 2010 23:54 finalboss wrote:
so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
You are one of thousands of people that on a daily basis says "The beta will end at date xx". There was no way to tell that you were more "correct" than all the other people. If we put you all together at least one of you should be correct since you all cover every day, and every month for the next 5 years of the potential ending of Beta. You weren't right about the date, you just happened to be one of the thousands of people who guessed the right date.
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On May 18 2010 23:54 finalboss wrote:
so basically when i warned you guys early on that beta was going to be gone before the camp came about, you didn't even remotely listen. oh well.
ur a pop-tard
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living in the UK sucks.
wait, are there any uk training camps planned?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
UPDATE IN OP
August 4-8th will be our first Gosucamp. Same rate, model etc.. just new dates. Posts game release this will prove to be the best way to kick off the game release!
If you are interested/available for these new dates follow the OP and send in your app to the email listed. We DO have spots available.. as to how many I am not sure, need to hear back from those that are already paid and make sure this date jives with them. We 100% do have at least 3 spots available however so send in the apps!
GL
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hey incontrol i know your from spokane, is there any consideration of doing one in the northwest? just thought id ask.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On May 28 2010 04:30 Destro wrote:
hey incontrol i know your from spokane, is there any consideration of doing one in the northwest? just thought id ask.
If I could find a way to house multiple cpus I'd do it np. I will think on this.. let me know if you have ideas on that too.
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On May 28 2010 04:31 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 04:30 Destro wrote:
hey incontrol i know your from spokane, is there any consideration of doing one in the northwest? just thought id ask. If I could find a way to house multiple cpus I'd do it np. I will think on this.. let me know if you have ideas on that too.
Beyond renting a house for the weekend through traditional means,
it could also be beneficial to have discount for a trainee who offers accommodations large enough for the event for the week (assuming set up and take down is more than just the wednesday through sunday)
Just an idea of course.
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Can't wait, i'm stoked. Going to be a fun week boys
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Just curious, Im about to move to scottsdale. I dont want to come and stay with u guys but can I just come lan?
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Sign me up. I can't think of a better way to spend $250 than to give it to a group of un-accredited "teachers" with 0 real-life experience in teaching anything to any one. This goes against the entire purpose of why I (and many others) play games: as recreation, not as a 2nd school. It is also insulting to consider how you seek to exploit your prowess at a popular game in order to make money off of those who are seeking to improve.
Here's a hint for any one vaguely considering attending this camp: Every resource you need to become better at SC2 is right at your finger tips, for free. Log on to b.net, and start playing games. Repetition and exposure to a variety of different players and strategies is what you need to develop the motor neuronal connections and cognitive thinking reflexes play and adapt more appropriately to win games of SC. Sitting in a lecture delivered by an adolescent/early 20s some one who spent the better half of their teen years playing computer games is not going to help you improve more quickly or reveal to you any secret knowledge that you couldn't get by 1. digging around sc forums or 2. playing sc in the comfort and freedom of your own home.
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man, i wish Mondragon, Koll and TLO would do something similar in germany.
That would be so awesome !! Anyways, i can´t go because my helicopter is at repair for the next 2 month
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wow LilClinkin you said the smartest thing I think anyone ever has on any of these forums t_t
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I just wanna now do you guys mind if we smoke there?
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lilclinkin,
I think of many worse ways of spending $250. Also, no one is forcing you to do this. You act like they offered you help and then surprised you with a bill. And you have no idea whether or not these guys have teaching experience so you're just making shit up just to be insulting. You also generalize hugely at saying "i play games as recreation". Again, that's "you". Whether or not someone wants to play for fun or just compete is irrelevant if they deem this experience to be worth the money. And these guys aren't seeking to exploit anyone, douchebag. They are lessons like lessons in anything else. Go tell the millions taking golf lessons they should just read and play to get better.
I don't know if you're just bitter that you can't afford things or jealous about people skilled enough at something to offer lessons but there was absolutely no reason for you to post here and it's only been a display of ignorance.
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I think people should help each other instead of hoard information and try and sell it. Especially this early in the game stage development. Whatever these people teach you will not be useful one year, or even half a year from now. There will be many patches after release to balance and fix the game and the strategies as we know it today will no longer work tomorrow.
Another thing that bothers me is that these people, while good at the game, are not any better than players that exist and are willing to answer your questions for free. Day9 for example is always open to questions and always answers your questions. His expertise is arguably even more valuable than what team eG has to offer.
Anything that these players know can already be found in existing archives. There are many replays, commentaries, casted tournament VODs already out there. While these teachers can correct your posture by slapping your wrists every time you slouch, I assure you, that if you were hard working enough to earn $250 you are hard working enough to look up how to sit-up straight on wikipedia. Aka, you are hard working enough to save your $250 for something more worthwhile and watch your own replays, do your own analysis and read up on your own homework.
$250 is at least 12+ hours of labour for any of us average gamers either in University or high-school or what-not. Imagine paying yourself $250 and spending 12 hours on game play analysis and see how far you go. If that still does not help then I'm not sure you'll benefit from these players advice.
I have nothing wrong with people offering to the community and I understand that most of the time, services are not free. I have no problem with people making money off of this. What I do have a problem with is that, the people that are spending $250 on something like this may end up regretting because most of the time in this exact situation, you can teach yourself much better than anybody else can teach you.
gl hf.... hopefully those that end up going will share with the rest of the community what secrets these players have that will make you a great player and provide feedback for future customers as to whether or not this is a good or bad product.
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On May 28 2010 20:15 Paramore wrote:
What I do have a problem with is that, the people that are spending $250 on something like this may end up regretting because most of the time in this exact situation, you can teach yourself much better than anybody else can teach you.
You can't really have a problem with that dude. People are free to spend their money how they see fit. I think most people that read this share your sentiment, and do not pay for these services, but there are those who do.
It's really not fair to critique this unless you can say without a doubt that the people running this are giving customers the shaft. For all I know, these trainers could give invaluable tips that are better taught in person and thus the services are great for those who pay.
Imo, don't let this bother you. The OP is posting an offer for services and your role is either to accept or decline. If you don't like it, then move on.
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On May 28 2010 20:01 epik640x wrote:
lilclinkin,
I think of many worse ways of spending $250. Also, no one is forcing you to do this. You act like they offered you help and then surprised you with a bill. And you have no idea whether or not these guys have teaching experience so you're just making shit up just to be insulting. You also generalize hugely at saying "i play games as recreation". Again, that's "you". Whether or not someone wants to play for fun or just compete is irrelevant if they deem this experience to be worth the money. And these guys aren't seeking to exploit anyone, douchebag. They are lessons like lessons in anything else. Go tell the millions taking golf lessons they should just read and play to get better.
I don't know if you're just bitter that you can't afford things or jealous about people skilled enough at something to offer lessons but there was absolutely no reason for you to post here and it's only been a display of ignorance.
I disagree. As opposed to him stating his opinion, you're the one that's actually flaming and I'd rather read his post than yours (why you calling people douchbags?).
No, he's not the only person play games for recreation actually. But you are right, golf lessons have anything to do with starcraft when his point is that the value of the service is low because the replays, discussions and competition is available for free. That's exactly how golf is too, right?
I'm not going to rain on their parade but I do agree with lilclinkin. I'd even go so far as to suggest that this is the product of WoW. A bunch of gamers who have now forgotten or never knew what a normal gaming community is like. Where they don't evaluate each other based on how much they can gain by associating together. At the end of the day, I think it is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. If $250.00 is for socializing purposes, make some fucking friends have a weekend lan. If $250.00 is for "classes in SC2" then lilclinkin is absolutely right about the free resources.
But what do I know? I'm just some jealous dude that runs a business that actually provides value to the customer they couldn't get for free online.
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United States42695 Posts
On May 19 2010 04:43 funk100 wrote:
living in the UK sucks.
wait, are there any uk training camps planned?
Yes, earlier in the thread I made an offer to come to peoples' houses and make them suck less in exchange for expenses, pizza and beer.
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On May 28 2010 20:28 Sultan.P wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 20:15 Paramore wrote:
What I do have a problem with is that, the people that are spending $250 on something like this may end up regretting because most of the time in this exact situation, you can teach yourself much better than anybody else can teach you.
You can't really have a problem with that dude. People are free to spend their money how they see fit. I think most people that read this share your sentiment, and do not pay for these services, but there are those who do. It's really not fair to critique this unless you can say without a doubt that the people running this are giving customers the shaft. For all I know, these trainers could give invaluable tips that are better taught in person and thus the services are great for those who pay. Imo, don't let this bother you. The OP is posting an offer for services and your role is either to accept or decline. If you don't like it, then move on.
I think anyone can have a problem with that because of his opening sentence:
"I think people should help each other instead of hoard information and try and sell it."
This is cheapening the community. Sure, your reasoning is fine and they can do what they want if people want to spend their money. But this affects the community as a whole, not just them and their clients. Whether they can do it is obvious: yes. Whether they should and whether its adding value to the community is a whole other issue.
This is a bit silly to be honest. You take a look at a few events that lead up to this and it might make a bit of sense. But you step back and realize that outside of this circle, this "service" is ridiculous. These events may be:
- WoW's terrible community and shitty guilds that promote this sort of exploitation and share it with other games (Bnet)
- SC2's tedious ass gameplay that makes these "classes" possible.
SC2 is a game (supposedly) and this whole thread and debate is depressing. This isn't the kind of community we should be encouraging. It's just a little thing now, but these little things add up and add up until the community is complete shit not just here or now but in future games for future players.
But anyways, make sure to bring your papers with you if you do sign up just in case the Arizona police violate your 4th amendment.
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On May 28 2010 20:01 epik640x wrote:
lilclinkin,
I think of many worse ways of spending $250. Also, no one is forcing you to do this. You act like they offered you help and then surprised you with a bill. And you have no idea whether or not these guys have teaching experience so you're just making shit up just to be insulting. You also generalize hugely at saying "i play games as recreation". Again, that's "you". Whether or not someone wants to play for fun or just compete is irrelevant if they deem this experience to be worth the money. And these guys aren't seeking to exploit anyone, douchebag. They are lessons like lessons in anything else. Go tell the millions taking golf lessons they should just read and play to get better.
I don't know if you're just bitter that you can't afford things or jealous about people skilled enough at something to offer lessons but there was absolutely no reason for you to post here and it's only been a display of ignorance.
I know no one is forcing me to accept this offer. But I'm sure there are people whose eyes lit up at the suggestion without actually realising what a scam this is. Thus, I feel the need to call the BS siren. If I was a mod on these forums I would actually ban the OP for using tl.net as an out-let to freely advertise this "service" for their own profiteering gain. Why are you welcoming these sort of people who profess to possess abundances of knowledge and skill about a game that we all freely discuss and share advice on, yet they aren't willing to reciprocate unless we pay a price? Please do not use the argument that they are "giving up their time" to teach us, as we ALL give up our time every minute we spend playing starcraft or discussing it on these forums.
Everyone plays games for recreation. The only people who don't are pro-gamers, as they are paid to do it. Those pro-gamers were previously recreational players as well, before it became their job. Recreational does not exclude competition. Please learn the definition of a word before you use it as a point for debate.
Finally, comparing this $250 service to a golfing lesson is absurd, for obvious reasons. Why does the service cost $250 anyway? What does this include? Is the accommodation included? Is food and drink included? Whose hardware do I use? Do I have to bring my own? How much additional is it going to cost just to arrive at the destination? What sort of legal responsibility do these guys owe to me for paying them this service? If I was to become injured during these 3 days under circumstances due to their negligence, who is going to be responsible?
Why should any one have to lay down $250 (without knowing exactly what this fee entails, or why it is set at that price) for a service which doesn't seem to require any over-head compensatory costs, is unaccredited, unproven, and is abundantly available FOR FREE? Why pay a single cent to these guys when you can log on to bnet at any time and play SC from the comfort of your own home without having to adhere to some strangely fabricated regiment? Why would you pay $250 to meet these guys when you can pay $2/hour to go to your local LAN with your friends and meet countless other people who share your passion for gaming and play SC or any other game on offer?
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On May 29 2010 00:41 LilClinkin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 20:01 epik640x wrote:
lilclinkin,
I think of many worse ways of spending $250. Also, no one is forcing you to do this. You act like they offered you help and then surprised you with a bill. And you have no idea whether or not these guys have teaching experience so you're just making shit up just to be insulting. You also generalize hugely at saying "i play games as recreation". Again, that's "you". Whether or not someone wants to play for fun or just compete is irrelevant if they deem this experience to be worth the money. And these guys aren't seeking to exploit anyone, douchebag. They are lessons like lessons in anything else. Go tell the millions taking golf lessons they should just read and play to get better.
I don't know if you're just bitter that you can't afford things or jealous about people skilled enough at something to offer lessons but there was absolutely no reason for you to post here and it's only been a display of ignorance. + Show Spoiler +
I know no one is forcing me to accept this offer. But I'm sure there are people whose eyes lit up at the suggestion without actually realising what a scam this is. Thus, I feel the need to call the BS siren. If I was a mod on these forums I would actually ban the OP for using tl.net as an out-let to freely advertise this "service" for their own profiteering gain. Why are you welcoming these sort of people who profess to possess abundances of knowledge and skill about a game that we all freely discuss and share advice on, yet they aren't willing to reciprocate unless we pay a price? Please do not use the argument that they are "giving up their time" to teach us, as we ALL give up our time every minute we spend playing starcraft or discussing it on these forums.
Everyone plays games for recreation. The only people who don't are pro-gamers, as they are paid to do it. Those pro-gamers were previously recreational players as well, before it became their job. Recreational does not exclude competition. Please learn the definition of a word before you use it as a point for debate.
Finally, comparing this $250 service to a golfing lesson is absurd, for obvious reasons. Why does the service cost $250 anyway? What does this include? Is the accommodation included? Is food and drink included? Whose hardware do I use? Do I have to bring my own? How much additional is it going to cost just to arrive at the destination? What sort of legal responsibility do these guys owe to me for paying them this service? If I was to become injured during these 3 days under circumstances due to their negligence, who is going to be responsible?
Why should any one have to lay down $250 (without knowing exactly what this fee entails, or why it is set at that price) for a service which doesn't seem to require any over-head compensatory costs, is unaccredited, unproven, and is abundantly available FOR FREE? Why pay a single cent to these guys when you can log on to bnet at any time and play SC from the comfort of your own home without having to adhere to some strangely fabricated regiment? Why would you pay $250 to meet these guys when you can pay $2/hour to go to your local LAN with your friends and meet countless other people who share your passion for gaming and play SC or any other game on offer?
Maybe because the people at GosuCoaching are amazing and to meet them is an honor?
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On May 10 2010 18:05 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
We do however offer amazing alternative pizza eating methods, 0 sleep giggle fests and more than a little dexter watching.
i would go just for those reasons. it sounds sooo fun and amazing. maybe if i win the lottery sometime soon i will attend .
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I think it is totally ridiculous that you guys are coming into Incontrol's thread and basically flaming each other over whether or not his offered service is worthwhile. It's been proven time and again that the in-house training experience is by far the best way to improve your skill, and you need look no farther than the Korean pro teams to see evidence of that. Furthermore, Incontrol and the other Gosucoaching members have long been respected members of the community, and have shown themselves to be a valuable resource on the road to improving skill if you are willing to pay the price.
Frankly, I don't know why it's acceptable to flame the service in it's own thread. Would you walk into a gym and yell at the members that they should be running on their own rather than paying a membership fee?
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psyonic reaver?!?! have u seen his analysis of sc1 games? please. Maybe its 3 of the best north american players + 1 friend who commentates
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What? Flaming before the first camp even happened?
If you think it is a bad deal, then you don't buy it, however this is most obviously a legitimate offer.
I personally wouldn't go (even if I was in the US), because I like to learn by myself, and I don't like this kind of camp in general (and I think they're inevitably a bit on the expensive side). However there's a lot of people who could use this to its fullest; and I commend these guys for having the innitiative of starting such a risky and complicated business.
Also, I think it is pretty obvious that it is in TL's interest to have these services be announced in their forums.
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Sounds great, but cannot attend it, hv fun u guys!
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On May 28 2010 15:57 LilClinkin wrote:
Sign me up. I can't think of a better way to spend $250 than to give it to a group of un-accredited "teachers" with 0 real-life experience in teaching anything to any one. This goes against the entire purpose of why I (and many others) play games: as recreation, not as a 2nd school. It is also insulting to consider how you seek to exploit your prowess at a popular game in order to make money off of those who are seeking to improve.
Here's a hint for any one vaguely considering attending this camp: Every resource you need to become better at SC2 is right at your finger tips, for free. Log on to b.net, and start playing games. Repetition and exposure to a variety of different players and strategies is what you need to develop the motor neuronal connections and cognitive thinking reflexes play and adapt more appropriately to win games of SC. Sitting in a lecture delivered by an adolescent/early 20s some one who spent the better half of their teen years playing computer games is not going to help you improve more quickly or reveal to you any secret knowledge that you couldn't get by 1. digging around sc forums or 2. playing sc in the comfort and freedom of your own home.
Surely, you've already read this entire thread and recognized how useless posts like yours are? It's tutoring, just like in any activity or subject. While you *could* just read stuff online and watch replays, getting one-on-one tutoring services from people who are well-known for being good at their specific subject is always going to be much better. This has always been the case, whether it's tennis lessons, math tutoring, or even learning to improve in a video game. If this WASN'T the case, then teachers WOULDN'T have a job. Students would file into a classroom and read books all day, without having instructors.
And if you don't like what they're doing, then you don't need to go to the camp. Bad-mouthing them isn't necessary; clearly plenty of people are interested in it.
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On May 29 2010 03:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 15:57 LilClinkin wrote:
Sign me up. I can't think of a better way to spend $250 than to give it to a group of un-accredited "teachers" with 0 real-life experience in teaching anything to any one. This goes against the entire purpose of why I (and many others) play games: as recreation, not as a 2nd school. It is also insulting to consider how you seek to exploit your prowess at a popular game in order to make money off of those who are seeking to improve.
Here's a hint for any one vaguely considering attending this camp: Every resource you need to become better at SC2 is right at your finger tips, for free. Log on to b.net, and start playing games. Repetition and exposure to a variety of different players and strategies is what you need to develop the motor neuronal connections and cognitive thinking reflexes play and adapt more appropriately to win games of SC. Sitting in a lecture delivered by an adolescent/early 20s some one who spent the better half of their teen years playing computer games is not going to help you improve more quickly or reveal to you any secret knowledge that you couldn't get by 1. digging around sc forums or 2. playing sc in the comfort and freedom of your own home. Surely, you've already read this entire thread and recognized how useless posts like yours are? It's tutoring, just like in any activity or subject. While you *could* just read stuff online and watch replays, getting one-on-one tutoring services from people who are well-known for being good at their specific subject is always going to be much better. This has always been the case, whether it's tennis lessons, math tutoring, or even learning to improve in a video game. If this WASN'T the case, then teachers WOULDN'T have a job. Students would file into a classroom and read books all day, without having instructors. And if you don't like what they're doing, then you don't need to go to the camp. Bad-mouthing them isn't necessary; clearly plenty of people are interested in it.
Very true. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter how much people flame these guys, it's abundantly clear that they have more than enough people interested. You need look no farther for proof of this than their application process. They are interviewing applicants and choosing the ones they think will benefit the most, which makes it clear that they have a limited number of seats, and way too many applicants.
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On May 29 2010 03:14 BillyMole wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2010 03:01 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 28 2010 15:57 LilClinkin wrote:
Sign me up. I can't think of a better way to spend $250 than to give it to a group of un-accredited "teachers" with 0 real-life experience in teaching anything to any one. This goes against the entire purpose of why I (and many others) play games: as recreation, not as a 2nd school. It is also insulting to consider how you seek to exploit your prowess at a popular game in order to make money off of those who are seeking to improve.
Here's a hint for any one vaguely considering attending this camp: Every resource you need to become better at SC2 is right at your finger tips, for free. Log on to b.net, and start playing games. Repetition and exposure to a variety of different players and strategies is what you need to develop the motor neuronal connections and cognitive thinking reflexes play and adapt more appropriately to win games of SC. Sitting in a lecture delivered by an adolescent/early 20s some one who spent the better half of their teen years playing computer games is not going to help you improve more quickly or reveal to you any secret knowledge that you couldn't get by 1. digging around sc forums or 2. playing sc in the comfort and freedom of your own home. Surely, you've already read this entire thread and recognized how useless posts like yours are? It's tutoring, just like in any activity or subject. While you *could* just read stuff online and watch replays, getting one-on-one tutoring services from people who are well-known for being good at their specific subject is always going to be much better. This has always been the case, whether it's tennis lessons, math tutoring, or even learning to improve in a video game. If this WASN'T the case, then teachers WOULDN'T have a job. Students would file into a classroom and read books all day, without having instructors. And if you don't like what they're doing, then you don't need to go to the camp. Bad-mouthing them isn't necessary; clearly plenty of people are interested in it. Very true. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter how much people flame these guys, it's abundantly clear that they have more than enough people interested. You need look no farther for proof of this than their application process. They are interviewing applicants and choosing the ones they think will benefit the most, which makes it clear that they have a limited number of seats, and way too many applicants.
Right, and the price is RIDICULOUSLY cheap. $250 for the entire weekend, which includes 27 hours of tutoring services. That's less than $10/hour!
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On May 28 2010 20:48 Vexx wrote:
I think anyone can have a problem with that because of his opening sentence:
"I think people should help each other instead of hoard information and try and sell it."
This is cheapening the community. Sure, your reasoning is fine and they can do what they want if people want to spend their money. But this affects the community as a whole, not just them and their clients. Whether they can do it is obvious: yes. Whether they should and whether its adding value to the community is a whole other issue.
Problem with this train of thought is that it's completely subjective: You think people should do whatever but you can't control these decisions, and you shouldn't be able to.
A poster mentioned above that it has been proven that these types of services increase gameplay skill dramatically, which is what these ppl are paying for. Taking his word in good faith, I really see no problem with these top players selling their "know how" to ppl willing to pay. The seller is happy, the buyer is happy and everything is great. I don't understand why you think that these lessons should be posted for free - whether you acknowledge it or not this is labor produced by the trainer and does have a price, and a low one at that.
Furthermore, you say that this cheapens the community and affects it as a whole, but I'm not so sure. Besides not really being able to understand what you're trying to say, wouldn't this increase the pool of better players in SC2 and therefore enhance quality gameplay? Wouldn't this be better for the community?
The only way that you're position can be successful is if no one decided to purchase these services, but it's obvious that there are people willing to do this. End of story. You may think it's ridiculous that these kind of services are available, but that's your opinion. It's like saying Kaplan shouldn't offer it's services for test taking preparations because, in the end, you can discover the common trends by looking at previous exams and you can also learn all the material tested by studying other books.
Concluding, if you don't like the offer then don't accept it. Even if this does "cheapen" the community (which is not really explained how and could possibly have the opposite effect), there's really nothing you CAN do about it as there are people who are willing to buy the service. People really need to stop hating, just because you think the service is lame, this does not put you in a position to dictate what the substance of a contract for services should be between two parties.
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On May 29 2010 09:34 Sultan.P wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2010 20:48 Vexx wrote:
I think anyone can have a problem with that because of his opening sentence:
"I think people should help each other instead of hoard information and try and sell it."
This is cheapening the community. Sure, your reasoning is fine and they can do what they want if people want to spend their money. But this affects the community as a whole, not just them and their clients. Whether they can do it is obvious: yes. Whether they should and whether its adding value to the community is a whole other issue.
Problem with this train of thought is that it's completely subjective: You think people should do whatever but you can't control these decisions, and you shouldn't be able to. A poster mentioned above that it has been proven that these types of services increase gameplay skill dramatically, which is what these ppl are paying for. Taking his word in good faith, I really see no problem with these top players selling their "know how" to ppl willing to pay. The seller is happy, the buyer is happy and everything is great. I don't understand why you think that these lessons should be posted for free - whether you acknowledge it or not this is labor produced by the trainer and does have a price, and a low one at that. Furthermore, you say that this cheapens the community and affects it as a whole, but I'm not so sure. Besides not really being able to understand what you're trying to say, wouldn't this increase the pool of better players in SC2 and therefore enhance quality gameplay? Wouldn't this be better for the community? The only way that you're position can be successful is if no one decided to purchase these services, but it's obvious that there are people willing to do this. End of story. You may think it's ridiculous that these kind of services are available, but that's your opinion. It's like saying Kaplan shouldn't offer it's services for test taking preparations because, in the end, you can discover the common trends by looking at previous exams and you can also learn all the material tested by studying other books. Concluding, if you don't like the offer then don't accept it. Even if this does "cheapen" the community (which is not really explained how and could possibly have the opposite effect), there's really nothing you CAN do about it as there are people who are willing to buy the service. People really need to stop hating, just because you think the service is lame, this does not put you in a position to dictate what the substance of a contract for services should be between two parties.
Since when was it a problem to post your opinion on a forum? Isn't the whole purpose of a forum to exchange ideas/opinions on different topics? If you disagree, then explain why you disagree. Don't attack the fact that his post was an opinion.
If the above posters felt like they were obligated to warn people of their thoughts on the camp, then they have every right to do that. It's not like TL.net is owned and moderated by eG.
And following in a similar spirit, Kaplan/Princeton Review/etc. ARE essentially scams. They prey on parents that believe that spending thousands of dollars on "test-taking tricks" will get their kids into better colleges. And yes, that is my opinion and completely subjective. Take of it what you will.
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Wow alot of people seem to be upset that these guys are making some money off their knowledges and playing aiblity.
This is good for e-sports.
If people want to pay 250$ to go to a sc2 camp, then whats the problem?
Some people are such downers lol.
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Have they checked into the legal matter of running a camp? I wouldn't suspect if only adults are going to be there that it would have little regulations but if kids, you may run into trouble if someone found out you don't have the requirements. I can't speak for Arizona regulations but from past camps I attended when I was younger there was some things they couldn't/had to do (then again that was with around 150 kids).
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Hmm, here are my thoughts:
1: People form strong opinions on this site on things they have no business believing in so strongly
2: I don't think some of you understand or are even aware of coaching for video games
3: 250 is not just cheap, it's ridiculously cheap. 4 days of intense instruction on anything costs more than that.
4: I have overwhelming respect for these guys for starting this program. Not only for the entrepreneur spirit, but for the good this could do for e-sports in the US.
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That being said, I have to give an anecdote that might make the need for coaching more clear. When I moved into my dorms freshman year of college (2001), I was roomies with a guy who had a lot of friends back home that were hardcore counterstrike/starcraft players. One of his friends came to visit once, and crashed on our couch for a week. He was a member of the GS team and was familiar with high level coaching and how to practice a competitive game. So, he naturally started "coaching" me on my starcraft and counterstrike. I can't fully explain to you how fast I learned in that 1 week. It was absolutely ridiculous! The week immediately after he left, my roommate and I went like 50-2 on 2v2 bloodbath, and people started accusing me of aim-hacking in counterstrike. Rebuilding my fundementals, and learning how to think about games made me a better player for the rest of my gaming days in the future. I'm totally confident that there was no way in hell I would have learned those things on my own. Since that week, none of my friends have ever been better than me at any game we play. No matter if it's starcraft, or tiger woods golf, or modern warfare 2, or poker, or backgammon, it doesn't matter. Bottom line is, theres only so much you can teach yourself.
I know there's a lot of stuff on strategy and tactics available on the web (day[9], tl, etc.), but that's not what coaching is. Having someone standing over you and coaching you cannot be substituted. High level strategy is based on the assumption that you are doing the other 95% of the game correctly; thats because starcraft is very hard. If you want proof, just look at sports: there's no level of competition in any sport where athletes aren't being coached. Nobody gets anywhere without a coach in any sport. Luckily, people are a lot better at sports than we are at starcraft 2, so we can still get by if we're self taught. But if you can get coaching, it's almost unfair how much it helps.
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wow, all of you who are complaining about $250 for a weekend of coaching are pretty ridiculous.
While it's true that almost everything anyone can teach you is available if you are determined enough to look for it, the problem isn't the lack of information. The main purpose of education isn't giving out information that you can't find anywhere else, it's actually LIMITING the amount of information flow so that you can digest it.
Let me put this into perspective, lots and lots of people take music lessons. Only a very very small minority of these are ever going to be 'professional' or use their skills beyond a recreational level. It's arguable that you can everything about playing a piano from books, the internet, youtube videos and the like, but yet, piano lessons generally run around $50 an hour, compared to this, $250 for a weekend is nothing.
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I 115% agree with trogdor
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United States10774 Posts
This is really sick, haha. I'd be so down to go if I had the time/opportunity. Good luck.
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as a small example, look at hyungjoon's show...he goes from being a complete incompetent fool (extractor costing 125 according to him) to essentially being able to beat Gas...then again, he was going for months, but the point remains that a cram session with top or near top tier players for 4? days straight is pretty damn instructive. I can understand some people questioning this, but overall this is wholly a positive benefit for sc2, especially in NA where such things are a rarity indeed.
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This is a really cool idea and if I had the money (T.T) I would definitely go. Are you guys planing to do this on an annual basis because next year probably would be much more viable.
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This is awesome and you guys shouldn't give a second thought to the haters.
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Ya know, i'm a full time worker, software engineer. I also have an active social life on the weekend, I don't play as much as I want to. I haven't touched a RTS in about 6 years(that being bw )
I loved sw:bw and i never even thought about going competitive back then. Until sc2.
Build order, economy, expand 1 ahead of the enemy are things I read about, but made more sense when explained by an actual pro verbally(over vent)
When i picked the game up for beta a few months ago, i was better than most. I got placed in silver league, but i couldn't get out of it though. So i found TL and with it gosucoaching.com.
Machine is zerg and i'm a zerg player, so i picked him to get coaching from. I've done two( 2hr) sessions with Machine and I grew exponentially after the first session imo. Up until the most recent patch i was rank 7 in Diamond league.
If I'm not winning any tournys, like i want to be, i'm goin to this camp. spending 240 isn't alot to me if it helps me pursue my goal of participating with the best( and maybe even beating them )
Just my two cents.
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Screw the haters, what you guys are doing is awesome for e-sports.
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Hi, just wondering if there is a video/picture preview of the last camp you guys had. Something like a promo vid to turn my attention to this kind of thing. I am unsure if you guys do because I am not going to stream through 35 pages of this thread....thank you.
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On June 08 2010 14:15 JohnUCrazy wrote:
Hi, just wondering if there is a video/picture preview of the last camp you guys had. Something like a promo vid to turn my attention to this kind of thing. I am unsure if you guys do because I am not going to stream through 35 pages of this thread....thank you.
They don't. This is the first time that they are doing this.
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lol @ you fools hating on these guys trying to make a living doing what they love. you're a bunch of fucking clowns and you're awful at rts anyways so it's pretty hard to fathom how you can even have an opinion on if it's worth it.
i know all of these guys and they've spent years refining skills that apply across all rts, not only starcraft. they definitely will improve anyone with the extra time and cash and it'll be a really fun time in general.
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
Balloon training camp for SC2 camp?I like the barter/trade system.
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I would totally do this but im only 15 and I doubt my mom would let me stay in a house with a bunch of college pro gamers lol
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Man I just got back from my golfing lessons. Can you guys believe, they were almost 80$ an hour. And GET THIS: my golf instructor wasn't even the best golfer in America! Can you freaking BELIEVE THAT? Apparently he isn't even on the PGA Tour! It's just unreal he has the audacity to attempt to make a living doing this kind of thing. He is completely RUINING the game of golf. What a sellout.
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On June 30 2010 10:30 Cell.cell wrote:
Man I just got back from my golfing lessons. Can you guys believe, they were almost 80$ an hour. And GET THIS: my golf instructor wasn't even the best golfer in America! Can you freaking BELIEVE THAT? Apparently he isn't even on the PGA Tour! It's just unreal he has the audacity to attempt to make a living doing this kind of thing. He is completely RUINING the game of golf. What a sellout.
This is a bunch of malarkey. It makes me sick to think this kind of shit can happen! I would demand a refund unless he provides Tiger Woods cause obviously he is the only person in the world qualified enough....
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On June 30 2010 10:30 Cell.cell wrote:
Man I just got back from my golfing lessons. Can you guys believe, they were almost 80$ an hour. And GET THIS: my golf instructor wasn't even the best golfer in America! Can you freaking BELIEVE THAT? Apparently he isn't even on the PGA Tour! It's just unreal he has the audacity to attempt to make a living doing this kind of thing. He is completely RUINING the game of golf. What a sellout.
haha, so great
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Wish I could attend arghhh Really great initiatives guy im sure it's going to be a blast once the videos start showing up all over the interweb
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ill pay all of you $400 to come to me? eh? eh?
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GL with the camp i hope it goes well, perhaps someday there will be an australian equivelent =D
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You guys can remove the requirement of a beta key now since its scheduled for post release Hopefully I can come to one of these in a year or two!
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Just as an update we have 9 paid and ready to go to this camp.. original plan was 8 but we allowed an extra due to extenuating circumstances.
That said we will be having another camp.. probably september. Already have 3-4 people who have spoken for those slots. We will be raising the price as the first camp is very much so a test-run where we figure out the kinks / gain experience etc etc.
Anyways we are thoroughly excited and you can all expect some good coverage of the camp!
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EPT
