EPTAccidents, GunZ: The Duel, and StarCraft II - Page 4
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
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Rodiel
France573 Posts
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
Units can no longer be healed or repaired while in transports. I think you have to time the heal/repair with the loading animation properly to pull this off. But no, Blizz fixed it. | ||
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
 I can SS and BF but thats about it not particularly good at aiming then again I played that before like SC so maybe I'l be better now. | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
That doesn't exactly sound like a good idea to me. I do understand what you are trying to get across however, I feel you just used a poor example that is trying to cover up the point that you feel SC2 isn't dynamic enough and things like Blink isn't good enough and that you feel a more faithful copy of Broodwar would of been the better solution. Am I somewhat on the mark? Blink also is an amazing use of units. Individual unit blinking's to save the unit, blinking from main to main on Lost Temple, Scrap Station, blinking back after sniping a unit and taking nothing but shield damage all of that makes Blink a fun and dynamic ability. I am unsure why you even used Blink as an example because if anything it's one of the few "Look at that!' abilities in SC2 that even someone who's never seen the game can appreciate. Ignoring all of this Blizzard makes changes off of what they collect not from the forums. Unless it's a game breaking bug or unit(larva not dieing on cancel) they wait to see how people react to it before they just fix it. Roaches, Immortals and the slow marauder ability all took how long before they nerfed them? They didn't listen to the tears of the forum they waited until they felt "yeah that's a tad too strong" and had the data to support it. Please don't act like this isn't blizzards first walk in the world of programming a game. It's not. Thank you for pointing out this nifty game and it's video's shame it didn't work out better. | ||
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:29 Parnage wrote: I am kind of confused how anyone could seriously agree with this? The entire statement seems to be that Blizzard should have a buggy and exploitable engine for sc2 and then you throw up a FPS with a as people have stated in this thread a very buggy and exploitable engine. That doesn't exactly sound like a good idea to me. I do understand what you are trying to get across however, I feel you just used a poor example that is trying to cover up the point that you feel SC2 isn't dynamic enough and things like Blink isn't good enough and that you feel a more faithful copy of Broodwar would of been the better solution. Am I somewhat on the mark? Blink also is an amazing use of units. Individual unit blinking's to save the unit, blinking from main to main on Lost Temple, Scrap Station, blinking back after sniping a unit and taking nothing but shield damage all of that makes Blink a fun and dynamic ability. I am unsure why you even used Blink as an example because if anything it's one of the few "Look at that!' abilities in SC2 that even someone who's never seen the game can appreciate. Ignoring all of this Blizzard makes changes off of what they collect not from the forums. Unless it's a game breaking bug or unit(larva not dieing on cancel) they wait to see how people react to it before they just fix it. Roaches, Immortals and the slow marauder ability all took how long before they nerfed them? They didn't listen to the tears of the forum they waited until they felt "yeah that's a tad too strong" and had the data to support it. Please don't act like this isn't blizzards first walk in the world of programming a game. It's not. Thank you for pointing out this nifty game and it's video's shame it didn't work out better. The last bit of the post The moral of the story? Game producers don't know what it takes to produce a good, competitive game. An e-sport game. To complicate the matter, they get inaccurate feedback from the community. It seems very, very hard to make a good game "on purpose." It only happens by accident. With exploits. Like strafe-jumping in Quake, Korean style in GunZ, and all the things we've learned about the StarCraft engine over the years. Deliberately programmed in stuff like "blink" simply isn't as amazing as discovered tricks like "muta stack." I'm pretty sure it means that sometimes games are good due to bugs and them trying to make muta stack just doesn't turn out anywhere near as good as it was in the origional SC | ||
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LunarC
United States1186 Posts
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RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On May 10 2010 03:29 Parnage wrote: Please don't act like this isn't blizzards first walk in the world of programming a game. It's not. Thank you for pointing out this nifty game and it's video's shame it didn't work out better. Please don't act so imba pro. The OP states that most "balance" comes from the players themselves as they create new and unique ways to conquer the game. BW being a very good example, for instances Dragoons being attack move did shit all, which is why pros will control the Dragoons individual at times to get the maximimum benefit. I never read anywhere in the OP that Blizzard should release a sketchy, bug filled game on purpose for the benefit of people to come out with their own exploits, just that some exploits in games are use to benefit of competitive players. Nowhere in the post does it even demeanor Blizzard. And individual Blinking is not nearly impressive as Hold Shotting with a stack of Mutas. You try. | ||
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
This is kind of going in a circle, but at what point does a glitch become a feature? Obviously skiing supported the maps and game perfectly and still provided a balanced game (although Tribes 1 and Tribes Classic for T2 was pretty heavily favored for light offense, while T2 was a nice balance.). | ||
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Icx
Belgium853 Posts
On May 10 2010 23:34 Fizban140 wrote: This is kind of going in a circle, but at what point does a glitch become a feature? When developers start implementing it as a feature of the game. Look at what happened with quake, the strafejumping/bunnyhopping was originally just a bug, but it got accepted as being "standard", being in every quake game after it, even getting "improved" in Q4 with the sliding thing, other games such as painkiller/warsow also implementing. Blizzard doesn't have to make a buggy engine just to hope that some things will break. But they could have taken a very close and good look at the sc1 engine and seen what good things it has done (such as the moving shot) and have implemented it. (For the next one who posts, OMG it's a new game, new micro, new ways): Starcraft 2 is the successor of starcraft 1, why take out things that has made starcraft1 the e-sports game it is today? Why not take those few things that made the game so good, and reimplement them instead of making them easier? I mean do you know what would have happened if ID software never added strafejumping again with the motto "it's a new game, youll find new stuff, learn to adapt", then Q3 would never have been the esports that it is/has been today. | ||
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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s031720
Sweden383 Posts
With the division system in place (or rather a system that would work better at distinguishing diffrent skilllevels) aswell as with the limitation of smurfing, much of this is already in place. The casual gamer should no longer be in danger of beeing dominated by someone much better utilizing techniques that is way beyond the casual players skilllevel. Left to implement are the actual features, but as stated, they can not be arbitrary, not gimmicky, not to much effort for to little gain, but not to much gain either, etc etc. In other words, meaningful MICRO. Someone mentioned phoenixes and the new move-shoot mechanic as an exampel of how Blizzard listens; but to me its a blatant exampel of Blizzard NOT understanding what is needed to give the game depth. They are focusing on width, for economical reasons one would imagine, but if they want an esport with the lifespan of BW, they need to focus equally on depth aswell. Well see, im not giving up hope. Because I believe that Blizzard actually wants to achieve something more than just a cash-cow. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
Also, this is a perfect example of a community not knowing much about making a great game, yet having massive confidence in their own opinions. You see it in every game with an old, "hardcore" fanbase. I was listening to the Idle Thumbs podcast and Jake Rodkin, who's a game designer of adventure games, made this point brilliantly. That feedback (whether on the forums or whatever) from the dedicated community is usually a symptom. When the community complains about something and suggests some fix (usually the most unimaginative fix that panders directly to them), the game designer should treat this suggested fix as a symptom to be solved, not a cure to be implemented. In other words the community is good at knowing something is wrong, but its terrible at fixing it. | ||
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AmstAff
Germany949 Posts
On May 09 2010 22:54 craaaaack wrote: Nice read, I fully agree. YES SO RIGHT!!! Blizzard dont get it, that more spells/spellcasting isnt the "micro" we want and need. we need things like patrol/hold micro to make the units more effective. | ||
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ymirheim
Sweden300 Posts
On May 11 2010 01:01 AmstAff wrote: YES SO RIGHT!!! Blizzard dont get it, that more spells/spellcasting isnt the "micro" we want and need. we need things like patrol/hold micro to make the units more effective. There are a hell of a lot of people who claim to speak for the "we" in the starcraft 2 community. | ||
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laste
Bulgaria242 Posts
The game's success isn't due to the unique play style the glitches provide but in fact, their difficulty.I played GunZ for years and the more advanced moves(combination of moves) are OBSCENELY difficult to pull off even randomly when training, let alone in an actual fight. The game is in a really bad shape, it has major flaws but they can't really change or improve anything since the essence of the game is based on these glitches. The only thing that keeps it going is its solid community. Difficulty: Thats what made GunZ fun and unique. Its the reason I still enjoy playing quake3 like nothing else after 10 years - because I can log on to quakelive and occasionally get schooled by someone thats simply better than me. Theres a challenge involved that no features, graphics, ACHIEVEMENTS, or anything else can replace. Its the reason Call of Duty12345678 sucks so much - the first time I entered the game I went on a 30 frag kill spree - the game is boring and based on luck almost entirely. Theres piles of other random content just to keep you busy but essentially, the game isn't all that challenging. Its the reason why MMOs like Lineage2 are better than World of Warcaft (I feel like I'm gonna get torched for this one  ). In L2, while being the absurd grindfest cheater heaven that it is, once you reach endgame you get to enjoy exciting pvp pretty much all of the time, giant alliance battles and never ending political conflicts. While in WoW, you just raid the same bosses over and over and over again just you can gear up for the next bosses that will arrive on the next patch/expand along with 10 new levels. Sure theres a million other things to do but I really feel those are there more to keep you occupied or are like prerequisite to raiding/whatever than actually to challenge you or to have fun with.That being said I really fear SC2 is going the wrong way so far, from this point of view at the very least. Wouldn't it be awful if the final release of the game was just a dumbed down version of Broodwar with shiny new features/graphics/content? If I was blizzard I'd focus more on getting the challenge part into the game, rather than facebook chat intergration, this way it will take longer for people to master it. Because when you challenge people creativity and determination sparks in the best of them, leaving out the ones that aren't up for the challenge, and quality is produced. But if you rely on features, repetitive and easy gameplay the only thing you would be producing is zombies that generate $2 million for a few hours buying a virtual horse. | ||
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LunarDestiny
United States4177 Posts
What the game taught me was you only need 1 sword and 2 shotguns to kick some serious butt. | ||
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
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