On May 30 2011 21:44 keeblur wrote: Just because some people are desensitized about the "n word", doesn't mean that it should be thrown around without a care in the world. How would you like it if you knew someone that died in the 9/11 incident, and you heard someone on a stream saying, "die like a 9/11 victim". You'd see a fucking mutiny against that stream.
TV jokes about 9/11 all the time. Family Guy did it, South park did it.. The list goes on.
On May 30 2011 20:23 Eurekastreet wrote:You're from Germany and you're gonna school americans on the usage of fuck and how they lack of creativity for using it ? This is getting more interesting by the minute.
And since when were ad hominem valid arguments?
That's not really an ad hominem, it's a tu quoque.
He's implying that you're being hypocritical because Germany is known for its censorship of hate speech, etc. Obviously it's a dumb argument, but it's not really an attack on you personally.
It's not ad hominem and it's probably not a tu quoque either but you can discuss semantics all you want and correct me about that if you please. You can call my argument dumb all you want while using latin to give you a posture, doesn't change the fact you didn't understand me. I'm not implying he is being hypocritical, it has nothing to do about Germany censorship at all, I don't know why you even go there but if nothing else, this proves that there's a lot of misunderstanding/quick judgments in this whole discussion (on my side too). Still, what I am implying is that, being a french speaking person, I'd find it strange that a german or an american or a korean should come and school me when and how and if I can use the words merde (shit) or putain (whore) in my everyday life or in my stream if I ever had one. That's all there's to it. I'm not advocating their use but you hear them quite often, so much they've almost lost their original meaning and I don't get upset by them anymore. I don't support hate speech either (!), but if some lunatic wants to spew hate, his freedom of speech should be respected, I'll just avoid listening to that person and hopefully most people will do the same and he'll disappear. It's pretty far from the Destiny situation though, I don't see any hate in what he does (but he sure gets a lot of it), his cast is "rated" for 18+, if some people are upset by it, they should just not turn it on. But people advocating "higher standards of speech" just because they are their standards are pretty obnoxious.
On May 30 2011 21:51 Eurekastreet wrote: It's not ad hominem and it's probably not a tu quoque either but you can discuss semantics all you want and correct me about that if you please. You can call my argument dumb all you want while using latin to give you a posture, doesn't change the fact you didn't understand me. I'm not implying he is being hypocritical, it has nothing to do about Germany censorship at all, I don't know why you even go there but if nothing else, this proves that there's a lot of misunderstanding/quick judgments in this whole discussion (on my side too). Still, what I am implying is that, being a french speaking person, I'd find it strange that a german or an american or a korean should come and school me when and how and if I can use the words merde (shit) or putain (whore) in my everyday life or in my stream if I ever had one.
I went there because I assumed you had some sort of point.
So what you're actually saying is that people who speak different languages shouldn't discuss what is and what isn't appropriate to say in another language? Am I getting that right?
This is really not about using vulgar phrases. That was a different thread. This discussion is about whether there are some words that are actually taboo for good reason, not just crude and unsuitable for children.
On May 30 2011 21:09 FunkQue wrote: Do people really think black people call each other "Nigger"?????? Like seriously?
I can't tell if you're trolling or not...have you ever listened to rap music? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N.W.A Or watched Chappelle's Show? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappelle's_Show#Notable_sketches Or any of the other mainstream black cultural outlets that use "nigga" gratuitously on television or radio? Oh wait, I get it, that's the troll: they don't call each other "Nigger", they call each other "nigga"...sigh
Ugh... exactly... If it didn't matter which version was used, then why do they both exists? So back to my question.
I did answer your question, I just did it snarkily. Since the sarcasm and/or point was not understood let me rephrase it. Yes, people really think black people call each other Nigger. Seriously. Because they do. I am shocked that you have had so little exposure to black culture or any representation of it in music, movie, or television.
I really wish DJ Wheat had stopped 'destiny' from talking on that topic. It was really in bad taste.
Instead of letting 'destiny' make vague arguments about context, maybe DJ Wheat could have asked destiny exactly what he meant when using the N-word.. and why he felt it was acceptable to use it in a video game.. I am surprised that none of the posts above defending him have asked this question
I would love to see a written statement from 'destiny' on exactly what the N-word means to him when he says it publicly..
Then I would like to see a statement from team Root stating whether they agree with and endorse his views, since he is presenting these views publicly..
Then I would like to see from his sponsors to see if they agree with and endorse his views on the N-word and why it's acceptable to use it...
On May 30 2011 22:19 Rocor wrote: I really wish DJ Wheat had stopped 'destiny' from talking on that topic. It was really in bad taste.
Instead of letting 'destiny' make vague arguments about context, maybe DJ Wheat could have asked destiny exactly what he meant when using the N-word.. and why he felt it was acceptable to use it in a video game.. I am surprised that none of the posts above defending him have asked this question
I would love to see a written statement from 'destiny' on exactly what the N-word means to him when he says it publicly..
Then I would like to see a statement from team Root stating whether they agree with and endorse his views, since he is presenting these views publicly..
Then I would like to see from his sponsors to see if they agree with and endorse his views on the N-word and why it's acceptable to use it...
Destiny went ahead and explained a ton more on his stream yesterday regarding everything. If I have time, I'll see which VOD it's on so people can get a better understanding (otherwise someone can post it up here). Then Debo came on his stream and agreed with him as well, as has been said in this thread.
It's really alarming the amount of people siding with Incontrol even though he's guilty of the same standards he's trying to argue against. It's continually alarming that people are using fallacy after fallacy in their arguments against Destiny since they have no real logical arguments.
The facts need to be faced that not only does one who disagrees with the usage of words not have to watch Destiny's stream (in which all streams now have ratings), but they have to actively and consciously choose which words to be offended by and actually make a stink about it. As I said previously, it's just a stance to gain attention over an issue that's essentially subjective and immaterial.
On May 30 2011 21:51 Eurekastreet wrote: It's not ad hominem and it's probably not a tu quoque either but you can discuss semantics all you want and correct me about that if you please. You can call my argument dumb all you want while using latin to give you a posture, doesn't change the fact you didn't understand me. I'm not implying he is being hypocritical, it has nothing to do about Germany censorship at all, I don't know why you even go there but if nothing else, this proves that there's a lot of misunderstanding/quick judgments in this whole discussion (on my side too). Still, what I am implying is that, being a french speaking person, I'd find it strange that a german or an american or a korean should come and school me when and how and if I can use the words merde (shit) or putain (whore) in my everyday life or in my stream if I ever had one.
I went there because I assumed you had some sort of point.
So what you're actually saying is that people who speak different languages shouldn't discuss what is and what isn't appropriate to say in another language? Am I getting that right?
This is really not about using vulgar phrases. That was a different thread. This discussion is about whether there are some words that are actually taboo for good reason, not just crude and unsuitable for children.
To some extent yes, I guess I shouldn't think in absolute terms but if I ever wanted to discuss what words I'm allowed to use on my stream - were it in french - and I had strong opinions about being allowed to say whatever I want, any opinion of a non french speaking person about my choice of words would not weigh much in that language-related discussion, for obvious reasons. And imagine for example that the word potato means something totally racist in canadian french and was just the name of a great vegetable in belgian french, do I have to stop using the word potato ? It's slightly different with English since everyone having it as a second language think they're Shakespeare (me included) but the n-word doesn't mean much to me just because when I speak english, I still think and feel the words as they are used in french and the direct translation of that word in french is not "loaded" as it is in english. There's nasty words in french too, which I think are better of not being used (but it's all a matter of context). For that reason, I don't think someone like me (or, say, a german) should be the one to tell an american when or how he can use the n-word (or some other words), of course I can discuss it but it won't have much weight in the discussion and that was my point. Every language and country have their own standards, since Destiny reaches (my assumption) people across the planet (at least from Sweden to Korea) if he starts listening to all the people complaining from across the world about his use of word x or y, he probably can shut down the stream tomorrow (or make a NASL version of it, which is so polished its goddamn boring - and yeah that is my subjective opinion, I guess I'm still entitled to one). Of all the posts in this thread, those that I thought were actually interesting were from gay people (and Debo's opinion on Destiny's stream last night), those are actually educative and if they had been outraged, I guess that, if nothing else, would make me change my mind about "the use of such words in a north american private stream" but so far they seem much more tolerant than the rest of the crowd ; most of the butthurt posts seem to be part of the white noise from the politically correct I-have-a-friend-who-is-a-black-gay-rape-victim-therefore-I-am-better-than-you thought police.
On May 30 2011 21:51 Eurekastreet wrote: It's not ad hominem and it's probably not a tu quoque either but you can discuss semantics all you want and correct me about that if you please. You can call my argument dumb all you want while using latin to give you a posture, doesn't change the fact you didn't understand me. I'm not implying he is being hypocritical, it has nothing to do about Germany censorship at all, I don't know why you even go there but if nothing else, this proves that there's a lot of misunderstanding/quick judgments in this whole discussion (on my side too). Still, what I am implying is that, being a french speaking person, I'd find it strange that a german or an american or a korean should come and school me when and how and if I can use the words merde (shit) or putain (whore) in my everyday life or in my stream if I ever had one.
I went there because I assumed you had some sort of point.
So what you're actually saying is that people who speak different languages shouldn't discuss what is and what isn't appropriate to say in another language? Am I getting that right?
This is really not about using vulgar phrases. That was a different thread. This discussion is about whether there are some words that are actually taboo for good reason, not just crude and unsuitable for children.
To some extent yes, I guess I shouldn't think in absolute terms but if I ever wanted to discuss what words I'm allowed to use on my stream - were it in french - and I had strong opinions about being allowed to say whatever I want, any opinion of a non french speaking person about my choice of words would not weigh much in that language-related discussion, for obvious reasons. And imagine for example that the word potato means something totally racist in canadian french and was just the name of a great vegetable in belgian french, do I have to stop using the word potato ? It's slightly different with English since everyone having it as a second language think they're Shakespeare (me included) but the n-word doesn't mean much to me just because when I speak english, I still think and feel the words as they are used in french and the direct translation of that word in french is not "loaded" as it is in english. There's nasty words in french too, which I think are better of not being used (but it's all a matter of context). For that reason, I don't think someone like me (or, say, a german) should be the one to tell an american when or how he can use the n-word (or some other words), of course I can discuss it but it won't have much weight in the discussion and that was my point. Every language and country have their own standards, since Destiny reaches (my assumption) people across the planet (at least from Sweden to Korea) if he starts listening to all the people complaining from across the world about his use of word x or y, he probably can shut down the stream tomorrow (or make a NASL version of it, which is so polished its goddamn boring - and yeah that is my subjective opinion, I guess I'm still entitled to one). Of all the posts in this thread, those that I thought were actually interesting were from gay people (and Debo's opinion on Destiny's stream last night), those are actually educative and if they had been outraged, I guess that, if nothing else, would make me change my mind about "the use of such words in a north american private stream" but so far they seem much more tolerant than the rest of the crowd ; most of the butthurt posts seem to be part of the white noise from the politically correct I-have-a-friend-who-is-a-black-gay-rape-victim-therefore-I-am-better-than-you thought police.
I scrolled to the last sentence, which made me realize you are a complete troll so I didn't read anything else.
If you think about it for a second, haven't this been up to debate before? Remember rock and roll? Same shit happened. All the political correct people came out crying because of the faul language and offensive shit on stage, does it really matter that much?
I think you're right, here's Zappa on Crossfire in 1986:
On May 30 2011 21:51 Eurekastreet wrote: It's not ad hominem and it's probably not a tu quoque either but you can discuss semantics all you want and correct me about that if you please. You can call my argument dumb all you want while using latin to give you a posture, doesn't change the fact you didn't understand me. I'm not implying he is being hypocritical, it has nothing to do about Germany censorship at all, I don't know why you even go there but if nothing else, this proves that there's a lot of misunderstanding/quick judgments in this whole discussion (on my side too). Still, what I am implying is that, being a french speaking person, I'd find it strange that a german or an american or a korean should come and school me when and how and if I can use the words merde (shit) or putain (whore) in my everyday life or in my stream if I ever had one.
I went there because I assumed you had some sort of point.
So what you're actually saying is that people who speak different languages shouldn't discuss what is and what isn't appropriate to say in another language? Am I getting that right?
This is really not about using vulgar phrases. That was a different thread. This discussion is about whether there are some words that are actually taboo for good reason, not just crude and unsuitable for children.
To some extent yes, I guess I shouldn't think in absolute terms but if I ever wanted to discuss what words I'm allowed to use on my stream - were it in french - and I had strong opinions about being allowed to say whatever I want, any opinion of a non french speaking person about my choice of words would not weigh much in that language-related discussion, for obvious reasons. And imagine for example that the word potato means something totally racist in canadian french and was just the name of a great vegetable in belgian french, do I have to stop using the word potato ? It's slightly different with English since everyone having it as a second language think they're Shakespeare (me included) but the n-word doesn't mean much to me just because when I speak english, I still think and feel the words as they are used in french and the direct translation of that word in french is not "loaded" as it is in english. There's nasty words in french too, which I think are better of not being used (but it's all a matter of context). For that reason, I don't think someone like me (or, say, a german) should be the one to tell an american when or how he can use the n-word (or some other words), of course I can discuss it but it won't have much weight in the discussion and that was my point. Every language and country have their own standards, since Destiny reaches (my assumption) people across the planet (at least from Sweden to Korea) if he starts listening to all the people complaining from across the world about his use of word x or y, he probably can shut down the stream tomorrow (or make a NASL version of it, which is so polished its goddamn boring - and yeah that is my subjective opinion, I guess I'm still entitled to one). Of all the posts in this thread, those that I thought were actually interesting were from gay people (and Debo's opinion on Destiny's stream last night), those are actually educative and if they had been outraged, I guess that, if nothing else, would make me change my mind about "the use of such words in a north american private stream" but so far they seem much more tolerant than the rest of the crowd ; most of the butthurt posts seem to be part of the white noise from the politically correct I-have-a-friend-who-is-a-black-gay-rape-victim-therefore-I-am-better-than-you thought police.
I scrolled to the last sentence, which made me realize you are a complete troll so I didn't read anything else.
"I took a speed reading course and read 'War and Peace' in twenty minutes. It involves Russia." Woody Allen
If you're offended by stuff, avoid it. Dont watch it and ignore it. He dosen't impose himself upon others, he offers a stream with harsh langauge, you chose to watch.
And inc didn't make good arguments. He kept hammering the same line over and over again about catering to the 0.00001% of the population that is always on the lookout for a reason to become angry and refuses to accept any explanation than their own subjectively construed reality as absolute truth (It doesn't matter that you didn't mean it that way. In my dictionary that word is offensive and carries a set objective meaning), while Destiny argued against them. The only way inc rebuted Destiny (and Wheats) arguments were "I see what you did there", "(condescending laughter) I can't believe I'm hearing this" and "are you serious?!".
Uh, not really. Incontrol rebutted the context argument repeatedly, while Destiny responded only by repeating himself about context and making vague statements about transparency and sincerity. It's funny that you only said "Destiny argued against them" without elaborating. You clearly only heard what you wanted to hear.
EPT
