EPTPatch 8 Discussion - Page 35
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Dx Fx
Russian Federation85 Posts
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Seku
United States313 Posts
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Marradron
Netherlands1586 Posts
On April 08 2010 07:28 Dx Fx wrote: I'm not sure if someone mentioned it already, but i'm pretty sure they screwed up the coding in Void Ray Not armored: 5,10 + 1 => 8,13. (max upgrade) armored: 4,24 +2,3 => 10,33 . (max upgrade) prepatch: Not armored: 2,4,8(+1)(+1)(+2) -> 5,7,14 armored: 4,8,16(+0)(+1)(+2) -> 9,18,36 I know that in the patch notes is nothing about the upgrades, so they could have reduced the max damage due their higher starting dmg to keep the median the same, but the new dmg system for voidray is screwed up. It shouldn't do 4 dmg vs armored at 1 beam, while doing 5 vs non armored... anyway the 10+15 is not applied as well, but it's using the old system at least somehow... Is not the tooltip just bugged ? It should do 5 versus both armored and unarmored at first beam wile full does 10 + 15 vs armored | ||
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Dx Fx
Russian Federation85 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
slight immortal nerf might have been nice tho. and the voidray nerf is too huge, taking away its 3 attack levels just makes it more boring | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
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RatherGood
Canada147 Posts
On April 08 2010 06:31 Mr.E wrote: No ones gunna go marine medivac and forget marauders because of the extra upgrade. Marine, Medivac, Marauder is so far into the game that this becomes another discussion entirely. Lack of concussive shot changes the way Terran play early game, as did the extra time on Marine and Reactor production. What I'm saying is that if you want to mass Marauders early on with stim and concussive shell, it's more of a time investment, thus it has more of a penalty if it fails. | ||
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unclean
United States8 Posts
On April 08 2010 06:35 FarbrorAbavna wrote: If you would do the math on hydras instead of TT about how they got nerfed you would see that the 10hp nerf is in practice nothing more than t1 units killing hydras in one or two less attacks while t2 and upwards does so in the same amount of attacks as before. What does the nerf do besides making them a tinsy bit easier to kill, force you to actually use more diverse armies than raoch hydra or hdyra ling with some mutas or roaches dispersed inbetween for some fluff. Yes, this, and it will make it so that they actually have to dodge storms. I've seen too many high level games where where zerg players wouldn't even care and just attack move their army right through knowing that the protoss army would melt before they could even touch that last 10hp. Hopefully this changes things up a bit. Great patch, I think this will make quite a few matchups more interesting to watch. I'm not in the beta, but watching idra macro for ten minutes then attack move a glob of roaches and hydras or seeing jinro hitting the maurader button over and over versus a protoss who can do nothing but block off their ramp with forcefields is fucking boring. The void ray change is strange but I think it was made specifically to give P another option versus early marauder rushes, since before it only took something stupid like 3 or 4 marines to take one out. I've seen people use that strategy successfully but it was always by the skin of their teeth. I also have to echo the sentiment that zerg needs a more interesting infestor and another unit that would help them get through the midgame (lurker). If the infested terran ability was replaced with a small AOE heal centered around themselves to make it risky to use in battle, and they were given the ability to burrow after using mind control so that they wouldn't get insta gibbed unless the enemy brought along detection they might be as interesting to use as sentries and ravens. All the nerfs to zerg burrowing really are mystifying to me though as I've never seen a game where it's been used effectively. Does anyone have a replay where it doesn't fail horribly? | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
 And they took our suggestions. ^_^ (and I supported one too. That makes me extra happy) | ||
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Cragamon
Denmark4 Posts
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
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Muxy
7 Posts
I do like how the Zerg players have to utilize creep expanding more as well. | ||
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TwilightStar
United States649 Posts
On April 08 2010 02:43 SoleSteeler wrote: They really should have tweaked the immortal a bit too >_< Honestly I never really saw how immortals were as good as people complain they are... Roach and Marauder were the big ones for me. Unsure as to why they changed Void Ray, they made it a bit more boring, but I dunno. On April 08 2010 07:34 Cragamon wrote: Well I am a Z player and i really really like this patch even though ZvP is gonna be almost imposible.. but still I am just so thrilled that i dont have to invest in so many of those borring borring borring roaches anymore ZvP Impossible? hahah! | ||
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Exteray
United States1094 Posts
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Perseverance
Japan2800 Posts
I am still waiting for them to correct their patch notes and add lurker... | ||
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Zexion
Sweden971 Posts
On April 08 2010 07:25 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: Oh my god please this. At least SCBW hydras are microable. I get raped by storm the way it is with the autocasting. My hydra are so slow i cannot storm dodge! I think that their slow movement is their balance problem. Not to mention they took my 2 favorite units out of the game which are the Mutalisk and Lurker. You cant argue that the mutalisk is in any way the same unit. You just can't micro it efficiently just the same as the new hydra. Really i am feeling that the only unit that micros out of my zerg army is zergling / roach with speed upgrade or burrow / and infestors. Zerg were a very micro intensive race and now its just not and its quite frankly is not fun anymore. I really want it to be but wow have they taken the micro intensity out of zerg with SC2! I would be fine with this patch if the hydra had a speed upgrade to make them a viable harassing unit and i wouldn't be afraid to take on a protoss army with them because i know if i micro right i stand a chance against storm and collosus. But for as expensive as hydra are now and weak and unmicroable it is just frustrating. And here we go again, more talk about wanting the old units back. If you mean that hydras are to return to what they were in SC:BW, wouldn't it screw other things up? If one thing changes in the game, you probably have to make adjustments to other things as well, especially if we are talking about BIG changes such as returning hydras back to the SC:BW version. Don't forget that they are stronger now, but also that you need Lair to get them. No, they're not the same as in SC:BW, but are they really supposed to be? I'm not the best player around here so you might think this is a load of bullshit, but this is at least what I think about bringing old units back into the SC2. I disagree with that, but only to a certain degree of course. But I still think we need to adapt to the new units and their roles instead of whining about the "disappearance of micro" and old units. | ||
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TerranUp16
United States88 Posts
On April 08 2010 05:52 go4it wrote: I fully disagree. Terran could switch to rines + tanks against roaches, you wanna say that this will not rape Roaches? Maybe, if youre micro is really bad.. Checking the effectiveness of Marines v Roaches is ofc the first thing I'm going to be doing but Marines melted to Roaches previously and I don't see these changes altering that much at all- and that's not at all a matter of micro. On April 08 2010 05:52 PanzerDragoon wrote:Jesus christ, the BETA has been out like a month, and we're back to "will never be a true e-sport". If the game is skillful and interesting to watch, it will be an e-sport. I think TheLittleOne games proved that given the right players, both are true. TheLittleOne's games interested me certainly, but I've also seen his strategies crushed as easily as they have dominated. They're very interesting diversions, much like the kinds of really interesting TvZ builds that Fantasy regularly hauls out, but I don't see them being anywhere near the kind of standard play that would define the game and its status as a spectator sport. As for it being beta, that means absolutely nothing if Blizzard doesn't leverage that fact to make serious changes to push the game in the direction it needs/they want it to go to reach the kind of success they want, then it being in "beta" means absolutely nothing. It's notable to mention Dawn of War 2 here, a game which came into beta interestingly until much of what made the game unique was nerfed into boredom by release. The game comes out and gets some applause for its different approach to singleplayer but gets hammered for its lackluster MP. About five months pass (and I think Ebbert had been dished off to Blizzard by this time) and Relic comes out with a beta patch, 1.5 "There is Only War" and it's like a complete re-imagining of the game and its balance and the utility of its units. It completely brings back what gave the game potential and more importantly makes it incredibly fun. Fast-forward to today and the recently-released Chaos Rising, while it introduced a few balance issues that will hopefully be addressed in 2.2, largely improved the game significantly yet again, making it yet more fun and plenty deeper. Problem is, the game is still fighting against demons it incurred on vanilla launch day. Because the design and balance of the units and the meta-game were at the time quite less than desirable, players and critics alike dismissed it quickly and because there was no apparent potential induced that the issue was likely the "lack of base-building and macro". Looking at the game now, those are not issues at all and actually are very nice design components that grant the game a ton of micro depth and which have it require plenty of micro-oriented multi-tasking compared to SC/SC2's focus of a more even split between macro and micro multi-tasking, and despite there only being one true base structure, DoW 2 has quite sufficient macro components to grant it plenty of depth and a proper meta-game (many of those macro-components have just been streamlined and relocated from what traditional RTS players are used to). However, despite that the game's MP has more or less been fixed, anyone who hasn't bothered with the game in a bit won't even realize that even if given a precise breakdown of what was fixed because they're still of the opinion that it's the lack of base-building that was the primary issue. Applying the above two paragraphs to StarCraft 2, the current specific issue seems to be that the Roach, Marauder, and Immortal are harming SC2's meta-game and unit balance while more specifically the massing of Roaches and/or Marauders currently makes the game quite un-fun and not very entertaining to watch. These are the real issues, but the larger, perceived issues that stem from these are that there is no/little micro depth in SC2, that it's all about blob versus blob, that it's a game of hard counters (even though the relationships between MOST units is that of soft counters), etc... And those are things that SC2 could carry to its grave if those issues are not addressed. However, SC2 is helped a bit by in large terms staying nearer to SC1 in terms of core gameplay mechanics whereas Dawn of War 2 was a major departure from Dawn of War 1 and from just about all other RTS games (it even featured many significant departures from Company of Heroes, its most immediate predecessor), so I think SC2 has a better shot as a "second chance" if it does manage to fix its underlying issues. Nonetheless, I don't think it's a situation Blizzard or anyone else really wants SC2 to have to be in at any point... | ||
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JSH
United States4109 Posts
On April 08 2010 07:44 Exteray wrote: Is Concussion Shell the ability to have slow down effect? Yes it is Just saw Orb do a proxy Void Ray rush still won xD | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12071 Posts
On April 08 2010 07:25 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: Oh my god please this. At least SCBW hydras are microable. I get raped by storm the way it is with the autocasting. My hydra are so slow i cannot storm dodge! I think that their slow movement is their balance problem. Not to mention they took my 2 favorite units out of the game which are the Mutalisk and Lurker. You cant argue that the mutalisk is in any way the same unit. You just can't micro it efficiently just the same as the new hydra. Really i am feeling that the only unit that micros out of my zerg army is zergling / roach with speed upgrade or burrow / and infestors. Zerg were a very micro intensive race and now its just not and its quite frankly is not fun anymore. I really want it to be but wow have they taken the micro intensity out of zerg with SC2! I would be fine with this patch if the hydra had a speed upgrade to make them a viable harassing unit and i wouldn't be afraid to take on a protoss army with them because i know if i micro right i stand a chance against storm and collosus. But for as expensive as hydra are now and weak and unmicroable it is just frustrating. If you're having alot of speed problems, could you creep tumour where you think you're going to be fighting? Then you would get the speed boost from the creep right? Atleast I think that's right anyway. | ||
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deth
Australia1757 Posts
Marauder nerf was good, thor buff good, tank buff fails to address the actual problem with the unit, void ray change good. | ||
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