[D] Marauders - Page 29

On April 07 2010 00:22 suejak wrote:

I mean, if they get lots of marauders early, you'll just have to dodge and weave with your zealot worker harass or focus on defense until you get charge. Sounds like standard strategy-game fare to me...

On April 07 2010 04:51 RPGabe wrote:
Would reducing Marauder range to 4 (instead of 6) solve some of these issues?

• This would make it much more difficult for them to kite Roaches.
  
• They'd have to run forward to fight immortals and colossus, which would endanger them significantly.
  
• They would become less effective against Hydras, Tanks and Thors.
  
• They would tank better for Marines (by naturally moving in front of them)
  
• They could still kite Zealots, but Stalkers could now kite them potentially.
  
• Focus fire would be tough for large groups because they wouldn't all be able to easily reach the same target.
  

Remember what changing goons from 4 range to 6 did? Let's do it in reverse.

On April 07 2010 02:34 Daerthalus wrote:
Without going full circle again, I think that Terran players are simply spoiled. You get a unit you can mass all game long, that barely requires any micro vs protoss ground units, and that can be healed and stimmed. I don't blame you, If zerg or protoss had a unit like that, we'd build nothing else either. The end result is that you narrow your strategic vision to why build A,B or C when D is always better. Maybe A,B, and C are all balanced units and combined with E and F you'd have a very good army, BUT nooo...D (aka Marauders) are limiting your vision you never get to thinking about E and F cuz the thought process never gets past USE D.

You want a Bio tanking unit, that also harasses, kites, slows and blows up buildings. Make a choice. Get a slowing unit for support, or a tanking unit to tank and beat on armor.

100 HP is still more than 2x a Marine, 8+12 Damage is the same dps vs armored as before, and u still have slow to kite banelings, zealots and other units around.
125 HP, 10+10, but no slow...u end up with a Bigger Badder Marine that hit armored unit hard but that loses to cheap masses of units.

I for one am not against Terran receiving other buffs or undoing some marine/reactor nerfs should a Marauder nerf take place, but we shouldn't assume that is it absolutely required.

On April 07 2010 04:50 Plexa wrote:
Outside of hard Marauder rushes, I'm starting to think there isn't a problem at all here. There's enough stuff for Protoss to fight semi-evenly against Terran thanks to feedback and whatnot.

On April 07 2010 01:57 MorroW wrote:

great pos except its not true
-drops?
ive never seen any terran ever going fast drop against toss, why would u do it? how can this be effective. scratch this off the list because fast drop by terran is just as likely and just as effective as a fast drop by toss (which ive seen alot more of)
bunker rush? same here, ive never seen a bunker rush. a bunker takes 30 seconds to make and scvs got 45 hp. even if bunker rush was possible it would include in the proxi rax so it wouldnt qualify as 2

so in effective rushes (that qualify imo)
PvT:
+ Show Spoiler +

TvP:
+ Show Spoiler +

if u remove academy
PvT:
+ Show Spoiler +

TvP:
+ Show Spoiler +

and this is my point


totally agree. this is the problem i have with marauders, ever since patch 6 they took the thunder away from the marines totally



the problem is whenever marauders get charged they can just back for 2-3 seconds and zealot wont get an attack off and they r back to square 1. zealots themselves cant touch the marauders in a battle like this without flank or high numbers that causes ai issues to the marauders, the charge doesnt do squat even if it wasnt slowed

On April 07 2010 04:51 RPGabe wrote:
Would reducing Marauder range to 4 (instead of 6) solve some of these issues?

• This would make it much more difficult for them to kite Roaches.
  
• They'd have to run forward to fight immortals and colossus, which would endanger them significantly.
  
• They would become less effective against Hydras, Tanks and Thors.
  
• They would tank better for Marines (by naturally moving in front of them)
  
• They could still kite Zealots, but Stalkers could now kite them potentially.
  
• Focus fire would be tough for large groups because they wouldn't all be able to easily reach the same target.
  

Remember what changing goons from 4 range to 6 did? Let's do it in reverse.

On April 07 2010 05:02 Killmour wrote:



Sorta, I've been playing a bunch of random lately and when I random Terran If I don't try out some wild build I just make 3 rax with lab and rally to the enemy base and do stupidly well.

I think the real issue is its a hard counter unit with a micro ability that removes the counters from it. It has both systems, the hard counter and the micro counter. No other unit really does that.

It would be great if more units had a micro able ability that made them counter things instead of just + damage to whatever. The big problem is you cant have both, and to be honest the micro on marauders is not very apm heavy anyway, you click a few times and you've snared every unit in the front line, blocking everything behind it, then you snare the ones that move around, and they block the ones that are no longer snared now.

2 marines dps is greater on armor and light then 1 maruder stimmed or unstimmed
and alot better vs light.

On April 07 2010 05:17 Daerthalus wrote:


First of all you can't really say that with certainty. Marine DPS is heavily affected by the ARMOR value of their target. 3 units with 20DPS compared to 10 units with 6. Sure vs 0 armor they are equal but vs 2 armor your 3@20 units deal 54 DPS and your 10@6 deal 40 DPS.

Peoples issues with Marine's are not their DPS vs armored or light vs Marauders. The issue is the Marauders can kite many units while still dealing good damage. Fast attack speed does much less for your dps when you're moving compared to slow attack speed.

Example: Shoots 1/s does 10 damage vs shoots 1/2s deals 20 damage. Same DPS but if u move for 1s every 2 seconds. Your 1/s units deal 10/3s and ur 2s unit deals 20/3s. See the difference. The extra dps the marine have would be lost when you micro them away from incoming melee units. And most people would rather face 5 zealots with 4 Marauders than with 10 Marines, since you lose ZERO Marauders to Zealots, but you'd lose some marines.

On April 07 2010 05:41 FREEloss_ca wrote:
^Because this is starcraft, and when you introduce 'tank' units, like in Wc3, the game play slows down.

I think both the Marauder and the Roach need to have their counters softened. By doing this:

-The Roach becomes more viable as a harassment unit, giving you more purpose to utilize its burrow-movement abilities, as opposed to it just being an A-Move-GG unit. Now this unit can be used as a means of worker harassment and ambushing, as opposed to it being your necessary I.W.I.N unit; this will now give hydralisks, zerglings, banelings, and mutalisks a more definitive role in the Zerg arsenal.

-The Marauder will exist for the purpose of its slow effect alone, as opposed to it existing currently for the sole purpose of it countering Roaches and Stalkers. You remove the need to have it for its terrible, terrible damage, and instead have it FOR the slow effect. With its role no longer being to PEW PEW everything, its now no longer a necessity to have, and instead fits in as a support-dps unit, providing decent damage, and a helpful slow effect.

We need to change the roles of both these units, and then we will change the boring dynamics of Terran and Zerg game play.

On April 07 2010 05:49 Killmour wrote:
I just wish they could come out and say what their plan is on the whole thing. If things stay the way they are things will be pretty boring. It will be possible to not mass a-move those units, but it won't be nearly as viable.

On April 07 2010 05:48 suejak wrote:
Nahh, just make charge zealots and speedlings immune to slow. Problem solved.

On April 07 2010 05:51 FREEloss_ca wrote:


As the Roach and Marauder situation stands now, it CANNOT go live IMO. It needs to be fixed. It's going to be bad for the game, especially at high level competitive play.

On April 07 2010 05:07 xnub wrote:


2 marines dps is greater on armor and light then 1 maruder stimmed or unstimmed

and alot better vs light.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=t8Z5bsJL0-2LyqHW1DWUAYA&output=html

On April 07 2010 05:52 xnub wrote:



Does not fix the early game for toss does for zerg makes it fine. But ya toss still will ahve the same problem they allready go right for speed somtimes they can't get it intime before they get overrun by marauders. This is why i say just make them plain immune to slow all melee units or just the 2 tier 1 units.

You could say make the charge upgrade faster or somthing but hard to make it super fast were it is and also it really does make them much stronge vs rines to so ya don't need that till mid/late game. Don't want to make the zealots to stronge