Some Thoughts on Supply Drop

On March 27 2010 12:49 Tinithor wrote:
Most people are more concerned with the short term and just survivng and/or killing their opponent instead of trying to win the resource battle when the entire map is mined out.

I don't think its AWFUL but i certainly think the extra units sooner you would get from the mule is more helpful, it will allow you to take more bases and stop the enemy from doing the same.

On March 27 2010 12:51 A3iL3r0n wrote:
Supply drop probably wouldn't be that bad if you had 3 CC's to give you 24 free supply. In general, it's an obvious third to MULE and scan.

On March 27 2010 12:56 Cade)Flayer wrote:
Supply Drop is great when you screw up and hear that dreaded warning about needing more supply though :p

On March 27 2010 12:56 ArvickHero wrote:
I'm sure Supply Drop will be figured into some elaborate 2-base all-in play sometime into the future

On March 27 2010 13:10 Annihilator_ wrote:
Don't you also have to factor in the the minerals your supply depot SCV misses out on when he's building it? Granted its probably like 50 minerals but it's still something.

On March 27 2010 13:13 Tinithor wrote:
Even for like... a timing attack i feel like the extra minerals a mule brings in would be better for getting out more units FAST than the supply drop. I really don't see its uses in high level play (great for new players tho really, cause they already have trouble spending the minerals they have)

On March 27 2010 13:26 ComradeDover wrote:


I guess it's because, contrary to popular opinion, I firmly believe that Blizzard is not dumbing down StarCraft in SC2, and this is making me look for possible high-level applications of Supply Drop. Maybe I'm wrong, and they don't exist, although I'd really like to believe otherwise.

.

On March 27 2010 13:26 ComradeDover wrote:
I guess it's because, contrary to popular opinion, I firmly believe that Blizzard is not dumbing down StarCraft in SC2, and this is making me look for possible high-level applications of Supply Drop. Maybe I'm wrong, and they don't exist, although I'd really like to believe otherwise.
.

On March 27 2010 13:10 Annihilator_ wrote:
Don't you also have to factor in the the minerals your supply depot SCV misses out on when he's building it? Granted its probably like 50 minerals but it's still something. MULE and Scan are still better I think and I'm guessing supply drop is only there for those "oh shit" moments.

On March 27 2010 13:37 RatherGood wrote:


Agreed, and I think you're on the right track. Here's another way to look at it for other people. Every other ability, unit, and building has a purpose in this game. Nothing is designed to be a crutch for low level or incompetent players. Following this logic, why do you automatically assume that Supply Depot is? I mean, that may be the case, I'm certainly not the voice of authority here, but it doesn't follow the trend of the game. I just can't see a team of developers, especially Blizzard, spending half a decade on a game and just deciding that one of the race's core abilities is for inept or forgetful players when the others are not.

I feel like there's something more to it too, I just haven't put much thought into yet as I'm learning all the other mechanics of the game still.

On March 27 2010 13:36 Divinek wrote:
they are dumbing it down, auto mine, auto split, mbs, smart casting, auto surround etc etc.

On March 27 2010 12:42 ComradeDover wrote:
I'm not the greatest player, so my thinking might be completely off here, but...

With regard to macro mechanics, it seems like Supply Drop (If you can call Supply Drop a macro mechanic, I would) seems to be really undervalued. Part of the reason is obvious -- Scan is an old favorite with a myriad of uses and MULES are useful as well, but I can't help but feel there's something to Supply Drop that a lot of people are missing.

Consider a hypothetical scenario that happens all the time in many games featuring a Terran player; You have 50 or more energy on your Orbital Command and have no immediate need to scan. You're also close to being supply capped, and it's time to build a new depot. You can either:
1) Call down a MULE (Which mines about 300 minerals during it's lifetime, right?), have it and your SCVs mine 100 minerals and build a new supply depot. If you do this, total income = (300 - 100) = 200 + whatever your SCVs mine. Of course, you don't actually get any more resources than you would have without MULE -- the amount in the mineral fields remains constant, regardless of how fast you drain it.
2) Use supply drop. Your income remains unchanged, but you now have 100 minerals that you would have spent on supply to spend on something else. Furthermore, unlike MULE which is a benefit with a drawback (faster mining = being mined out faster), the 100 minerals that you "gain" from supply drop are pretty much permanent (unless the target depot is destroyed, obviously). A 2-base terran who's mined out on all his bases who used supply drop will have 100 x (times supply drop used) more minerals worth of stuff compared to one who used MULE.

Still, even on paper, it seems like option 1 is a no-brainer, right? You get 200 minerals you wouldn't have had before, and I grant that in many cases you could find many uses for those more immediate 200 minerals, including make more CCs/workers to expo with, or units to help secure more expos. But that can't last forever, and from what I've noticed other races are far better at expanding than Terran is. By the time you reach that point, though, you're pretty much done making supply depots...

I guess what I'm getting at is I'm questioning if Supply Drop is really quite as bad as people make it out to be in the long run. Can someone smarter than me shed some light on this? Am I totally misguided here?

On March 27 2010 14:15 SichuanPanda wrote:
But I digress, the two uses I usually think of are as follows:

1. If you used SD early game you could effectively negate the supply from your wall depots. In other words, you have 3 wall depots, and you build your fourth depot at a relatively safe location in your base. Once its done you use SD on it and build your fifth depot and subsequently SD it. At this point your opponent attacks you, you hold off the attack but lose a wall depot (or two). If you did not SD your fourth and fifth depots you potentially could have to build more supply depots, either that or be to close to the cap to properly macro. By using SD on the other hand you can easily rebuild your wall depots, and continue production.

2. Once a game reaches the late-game phase, and you have 3 or 4 bases with 2 or 3 Orbital Commands (or four if a Fortress isn't applicable) and your supply cap is maxed out you can use Supply Drop to:

i. Conserve the minerals from the last remaining expansion by not wasting money on building Supply Depots in the event that one of your outlying bases gets destroyed.

Also in late game on smaller maps you can:

i. Use Supply Drop to go from 140 or so pop to max, as soon as your high-tech production/eco is ready - thus getting an army faster

On March 27 2010 14:20 blipster8 wrote:
Certainly near the start of the game, MULE is awesome because you really want money NOW. If it's useful at all, I'd say supply drop would be used later on, where the "create 100 minerals from nowhere" benefit outweighs the "give me less money in the next 30 seconds" drawback. But yeah, depending on the game I can definitely see supply drop being useful in later game play.

On March 27 2010 13:54 0neder wrote:

So people with non-korean hands are stupid? I fail to see how physical limitations make someone 'dumber' than a BW vet with 300 APM.

A better interface isn't dumb, it's smarter. The only valid point you have there is the smart casting. Auto surround existed in BW, the AI just wasn't as good. The others are just sensible improvements.

On March 27 2010 14:38 Divinek wrote:
But supply drop seems like one of those rarely used things, that will only have it's niche in strange or really long games somehow. Like you know if you're base trading and someone kills all your depots but you have like a bazillion minerals anyways and need an army up asap and things like that.

On March 27 2010 14:52 Divinek wrote:
It's rarely used because good players can build depots on time and figure having instant vision of anywhere on the map or a super scv is alot better.

i can't see why it would be a mistake to use them so rarely because, why should they be used over those two other awesome abilities? There would really need to be concrete implementations of it over theory crafting

On March 27 2010 14:41 ComradeDover wrote:


Obviously it's rarely used. Even a casual observer could tell you that much, but that I'm trying to get at why it's rarely used, and if it's a mistake to be using them quite so rarely in the first place.

On March 27 2010 15:11 Funchucks wrote:

I think it's just that MULEs are cooler and easier to understand. The advantages of calling down supply are subtle. I expect supply drops to feature regularly in optimized build orders, since they give you a minute+ timing advantage.

One way to think of it is that, building 3 permanent SCVs with the time and money you save by supply dropping is obviously more profitable on any timescale than making one MULE which will disappear in 90 seconds. MULEs without pumping SCVs doesn't make sense (with obvious exceptions, such as not needing supply or being saturated).

On March 27 2010 13:45 P00RKID wrote:
A good use of a supply drop: When the enemy targets and kills off some of your supply depots, dropping you into Red supply, it is better to use Supply drop so you don't have a stall in Unit Production. Sure, you could use mule, and wait for SCVs to build more supply depots, but if you NEED those units SOONER than LATER, supply drop is your fast fix. No need in having extra money from the mule if you can't spend it from supply block.

On March 27 2010 15:15 ComradeDover wrote:


I suppose you're right. I guess I'll just wait for people to optimize their builds before I start seeing more supply drops. It's nice to see I'm not the only one that isn't a supply-drop hater, though.

Thanks, everybody. Especially you Funchucks. :D

On March 27 2010 15:16 lepape wrote:


Another good use that might work would be to insta rebuild your wall-in, as soon as your opponent kills the first depot to save a few more seconds. (For example, versus a baneling rush)

On March 27 2010 15:21 Tinithor wrote:
The problem is that the supply drop isn't really a + timing advantage

On March 27 2010 17:01 3nickma wrote:
How does the Calldown Supply mechanic actually work? Haven't tried it since I play Zerg.

Does it have to be used ón already built Supply Depots, or can you make it anywhere?

If you could toss 'em around freely I could see some very interesting uses. Like putting them up in expansions so you don't have to scan to see if an expo is being taken, or if you want to immidiatly stop your opponent from landing his CC at his natural

On March 27 2010 17:05 ComradeDover wrote:


It has to be cast on an existing Supply Depot, and gives it a permanent visual change and status buff which provides an extra 8 supply, but doesn't change hp/armor/anything else. I think it takes a second or two to take effect after casting, but nothing too major.

On March 27 2010 17:22 3nickma wrote:


Oh okay Them it doesn't matter. Maybe that should be changed? Think a cool idea in a TvT would be to engage an keep the opponent busy whole dropping a Supply Depot in his main for scout Maybe a little enemy coloured blip on the minimap would be noticeable. Otherwisw just make sure there's so enemy units to kill it and it would work like an unseen Changeling

But all that doesn't matter anyway as it is now.

On March 27 2010 17:48 MeruFM wrote:
Supply drop is absolutely a very high level play item. Their arguing with KESPA and trying to make it the premiere E-sports game shows their dedication.
I feel like the fact that it doubles as a low level crutch is just a plus for blizzard.

One hypothetical example would be fast expanding. While a mule can gather mineral faster, a command center up 2 SCV build times faster is better in the long run.

On March 27 2010 15:04 nujgnoy wrote:
I know that to be 100% efficient you would use calldown supply because it's value for free. But ideal efficiency isn't always practical efficiency.

For example, two players begin a game
A begins with 7 patches and start with 1000 minerals
B begins with 8 patches and start with 0 minerals

Obviously it would be better ot begin as A because having the money NOW lets you use it for quicker development. Sure, the extra patch is worth 1500 and 500 more, so B would be better off in the long run, but A would dominate early game. The faster development would let him probably secure another expansion = more money. A can FE. Or, he can take map control with macro which will allow him to take expansions. Or, he can tech faster.

This is an exaggerated example, but one that shows why having faster money albeit lesser overall might be more beneficial than having more money at a slower pace.

I would say it's a mistake to use it early on, because supply is not as valuable in the early game where unit production rate is low. It might be more beneficial later in the game when 1. unit production rate is higher and 2. Overall income is higher so 270 income is relatively small.

On March 27 2010 17:57 Tinithor wrote:
I honestly do NOT see how supply drop would be good in any sort of timing push. More money from mules means more units which is what a timing push is all about right? Maybe if at the very end right before you pushed you would use it for that last few minerals right before your attack but that seems about it.

On March 27 2010 18:04 TheYango wrote:
2) Your opponent has the army advantage and map control--something like supply drop which takes so long to pan out its advantage doesn't help you. You need immediate resources to win a battle and fight your way back into the game before your opponent's advantage becomes insurmountable.

On March 27 2010 18:04 avilo wrote:
no offense...but there is no choice. You mule, or save for scans.
supply drop = you are in copper league.
mule = you are in platinum league

On March 27 2010 18:18 ComradeDover wrote:


Because if you supply drop, the benefits kick in immediately, and last forever. You get your free supply depot right then and there, which means you're not taking an SCV off minerals to build it and not spending 100 minerals. Those are 100 minerals you have at the instant you make the decision to use supply drop. Those immediate 100 minerals can immediately be put to use buying marines or hellions or upgrades or whatever.

On the other hand, the MULE gives you more minerals over time, and eventually stops working and has to be-cast to be sustained. The 240-300 minerals you'll get during the 120 second lifespan of the MULE can't be put to use immediately on casting. It's an investment that needs time to pay off.



That's part of what's been discussed in the thread so far. Supply drop = immediate 100 minerals, MULE = more than 100 minerals over the next 2 minutes. I'm sure there are several points where 100 minerals now are better than 300 minerals eventually, especially since MULE isn't giving you anything you won't get at one point or another. The thing is, it also has to coincide with a time you would be normally be building a supply depot at to gain this benefit.



What the fuck?

On March 27 2010 18:18 ComradeDover wrote:
That's part of what's been discussed in the thread so far. Supply drop = immediate 100 minerals, MULE = more than 100 minerals over the next 2 minutes. I'm sure there are several points where 100 minerals now are better than 300 minerals eventually, especially since MULE isn't giving you anything you won't get at one point or another. The thing is, it also has to coincide with a time you would be normally be building a supply depot at to gain this benefit.

On March 27 2010 18:18 ComradeDover wrote:

What the fuck?

On March 27 2010 18:39 Tinithor wrote:
AGAIN, the more money from mules over time will be more usefull 99% of the time even for timing pushes EXCEPT for right before you are about to attack to crank out those last few units.

On March 27 2010 18:18 ComradeDover wrote:


That's part of what's been discussed in the thread so far. Supply drop = immediate 100 minerals, MULE = more than 100 minerals over the next 2 minutes. I'm sure there are several points where 100 minerals now are better than 300 minerals eventually, especially since MULE isn't giving you anything you won't get at one point or another. The thing is, it also has to coincide with a time you would be normally be building a supply depot at to gain this benefit.

On March 27 2010 18:18 ComradeDover wrote:


What the fuck?

On March 27 2010 18:52 USn wrote:
tbh I don't know why this thread is still even open.

On March 27 2010 19:18 MeruFM wrote:
I guess I didn't make myself clear.

Supply drop = 2 seconds -50 energy
Supply depot = 30 seconds -100 money.
Mule = 90 seconds, -50 energy, +270 money, -30 money from scv that could be mining

Situations with 50 energy in the command center
Situation 1: Mule drop
0:00 - Supply depot start building (-100 net mineral) (23/26supply)
0:00 - Mule drop
0:30 - Supply depot finish building (26/34supply), [Mule for 30 seconds - scv building 30 seconds]= (-40 net mineral)
0:43 - Mule 43 seconds (0 net mineral)
1:00 - Mule 60 seconds (50 net mineral)
1:30 - Mule 90 seconds (140 net mineral)

Situation 2: Supply drop
0:00 - Nothing happening (23/26 supply)
0:28 - Supply drop (26/26)
0:30 - Supply drop complete (26/34 supply)
1:00 - Nothing
1:30 - Nothing

After 1 minute 30 seconds, mule build gains 140 more mineral.
BUT for about 43 seconds, the supply drop has the mineral advantage.
I refuse to believe that there is no use in that 43 seconds of mineral advantage. Building an extra CC in that time is just an example that would be beneficial. 43 seconds means you get a 2nd orbital command 43 seconds earlier, have 2 SCV advantage for the entire game. I'm not going to do anymore number crunching but I hope this gives a bit of insight into why I think it's not a completely lost ability in anything above copper.

A somewhat more minor point is that since you only need to drop the supply when you get capped at 26, you get an extra 28 seconds to ponder if that energy might be better used for a scan.

On March 27 2010 19:24 Divinek wrote:


but is the overall 43 seconds of advantage significant? How big of a mineral gain do you have over that time period, obviously for the latter half it's almost nothing. And negating that for an extra 140 minerals only a little bit later is ridiculous. That's like suiciding units or losing a building early, that can be game changing.

On March 27 2010 18:04 avilo wrote:
no offense...but there is no choice. You mule, or save for scans.
supply drop = you are in copper league.
mule = you are in platinum league

On March 27 2010 19:17 Rabiator wrote:
Supply drop is not really "100 immediate minerals" but rather not needing to pay for supply. So it might be feasible right at the start to call down supply on the first depot and build a barracks faster instead. Sure the Mule is a good choice as well, but the speed gain from being able to increase supply AND added production facilities might be worth it. It just needs someone to make it work.

On March 27 2010 19:18 MeruFM wrote:
After 1 minute 30 seconds, mule build gains 140 more mineral.
BUT for about 43 seconds, the supply drop has the mineral advantage.
I refuse to believe that there is no use in that 43 seconds of mineral advantage. Building an extra CC in that time is just an example that would be beneficial. 43 seconds means you get a 2nd orbital command 43 seconds earlier, have 2 SCV advantage for the entire game. I'm not going to do anymore number crunching but I hope this gives a bit of insight into why I think it's not a completely lost ability in anything above copper.

On March 28 2010 07:43 RatherGood wrote:
Some of you guys are thinking in absolutes hen you haven't fully thought this through. A lot of good arguments have been made for and against it, with most of them being largely ignored with absolute, completely definitive statements that it has no use.

This game is based around timing attacks, you can't argue this point. The Supply Depot can give you a timing advantage. Therefore, unquestionably, it has uses in timing attacks. Just because you can't think of a specific timing attack to use it in doesn't make it worthless.

I really, really don't want to break its uses down into hypothetical situations because we could argue about those all day, but the point is that if you make a a really decisive, well timed attack against your opponent, the more power you can put into the attack at that particular time, the better off you will be. There are times in the game where a time advantage is more important than a gradual mineral advantage. If you can hurt the other player's economy more, their tech more, or their whatever more, would you really rather have an extra few minerals?

Think about the extra minerals in a specific period of time as an offensive tool. As Day9 said in one of his casts, it'll take the longest time before people really figure out these timing attacks in Starcraft 2. Therefore, it'll take time before people figure out how to really use Supply Depot as it gives you a timing advantage, but that's only useful if you know where the windows of opportunity are.

On March 27 2010 21:30 streamofhonour wrote:
you guys are ony talking about the advantages of the SD and ignoring the bad side of it. imo i think the sd is a double edged sword to the terran. it is a permanent investment that cannot b removed once used. if your SD'ed depots were destroyed, you would have to build 2 more depots to cover the drop in supply. And also, do note that once the SD'ed depots are destroyed, thats essentially 50 mana lost forever in the game - mana that could allow you to gain a MULE and have an econ boost or a scan which could give u vital scouting info

its too risky to use SD as an alt to MULE at the moment, but i do foresee uses where it could potentially benefit the terran more then the other 2

On March 27 2010 23:29 Zeke50100 wrote:
It's a matter of preference. This is only the 32839th thread about t >.>

On March 28 2010 07:51 Tinithor wrote:
A mule mines the minerals for the depot in like 30 seconds. Like i said earlier in the thread, it will be better for timing attacks about 90% of the time except for like RIGHT before you attack in order to get 1 last round of units and thats about it.

On March 28 2010 07:51 Tinithor wrote:
A mule mines the minerals for the depot in like 30 seconds.

On March 28 2010 08:48 Funchucks wrote:

...and then you have to wait 30 seconds for the depot to build, and you have to take an SCV off the production line to do it.

As I previously explained, supply drop can pay off 100 minerals in savings over 30 seconds before you have the energy to use it, plus the savings of not taking an SCV off the mineral line (which I had guessed was around 50 minerals, but is probably closer to 25-30).

I made the example previously that under some circumstances, you could use the savings to build 3 extra SCVs, with 2 finished and put to work before you even have the energy to call a MULE, and gaining 3 SCVs to keep forever is generally better than 1 MULE that lasts 90 seconds.

There are obviously many circumstances where MULEs are the best choice, but if you can't see that supply drop is the best choice in other circumstances, you're just refusing to think.

On March 28 2010 08:48 Funchucks wrote:
I made the example previously that under some circumstances, you could use the savings to build 3 extra SCVs, with 2 finished and put to work before you even have the energy to call a MULE, and gaining 3 SCVs to keep forever is generally better than 1 MULE that lasts 90 seconds.

On March 28 2010 08:56 Tinithor wrote:


Like i said its useful when you lost some supply depots , forgot them , or RIGHT before you are about to timing push (cause that extra one hundred minerals will let you queue right then.

On March 28 2010 19:59 Unentschieden wrote:
Supply drop protects your Depos. Not by increasing Armor or HP but by making them a bad Target. Terrans have to expose their Depos for walling and destroying them would normally be a good deal for your opponent. If you are in the red Supply Drop is FAR better than MULE especially if it wasn´t a hit-and-run. Thats why Depos are "harrassmentproof" unlike Overlords.

On March 29 2010 07:33 ninjafetus wrote:
He's saying that Supply Depots are a less attractive target than overlords and pylons because you can use supply drop to avoid being supply blocked. I don't know how true it is, but that's his logic.

On March 29 2010 07:50 Funchucks wrote:
Plus, if you want to use supply drop to quickly substitute for lost depots, you're going to spend a lot of time sitting on valuable OC energy instead of using it to gather or save minerals, which is a considerable expense in and of itself.

On March 27 2010 13:36 Divinek wrote:

they are dumbing it down, auto mine, auto split, mbs, smart casting, auto surround etc etc. But that's not the point, supply drop really would be only useful for bad players, though that's a pretty large application right there isnt it. MULE and scan are just better in every way, supply drop can't ever be used in some high level way except for maybe some all in build where this gives you extra supply really fast...even then im sure a MULE would give you the same thing if you just build a supply depot with the resources you get on top of everything else.

On March 29 2010 12:58 Archerofaiur wrote:
Im a big fan of buffing Calldown Supply. Obviously you cant just increase the supply as that just makes it overlap more with the MULE. Instead I would vote for something like this

Calldown Supply
+8 Suppply
+4 Armour






I would diversify Calldown Supplys use as both a Supply Block lifesaver and as Wall Builder. Combined with the Engeneering Bay +2 upgrades for buildings there is the potential to make Depots Walls really hard to break through (1+2+4=8 armour!) :D

On March 29 2010 13:48 DragonDefonce wrote:
I reckon someone will come up with an early pressure build that utilizes supply drops in the near future

On March 29 2010 14:49 ComradeDover wrote:


+4 armor is way too huge. imagine trying to break a supply wall with zerglings or marines or something

and 1+2+4 is only = 7.

On April 05 2010 06:44 Black Octopi wrote:
How about if they change it to a bunker drop? I don't mean add spaces or armor to a bunker, I mean literally drop a bunker anywhere. /just kidding

On March 27 2010 12:56 Cade)Flayer wrote:
Supply Drop is great when you screw up and hear that dreaded warning about needing more supply though :p

On April 06 2010 10:39 peckham33 wrote:
i'm guessing you are one of the medium level players who has yet to learn there are no features blizz puts in games that don't have a comonly useable function. all the abilities have a use at every level of the game once you have them avalable.

On April 05 2010 14:35 peckham33 wrote:
1. some people have no clue what they are talking about. suply drop dubbles how many supply a single depot provides not adding a free depot like some of you seem to think. this just shows you how little we really know.

On April 05 2010 14:35 peckham33 wrote:
2. you need to remeber there is a campain comeing with this and that may raise SDs importance and our knolage of it.

On April 05 2010 14:35 peckham33 wrote:
(probally missspelled it).

On April 06 2010 11:09 ComradeDover wrote:


lol. Of course it doesn't provide with a free new supply depot. But doubling the supply on a current depot has the same effect a buying a whole new one. It's not literally what happens, but the effect is just about the same.



Doubtful, but even if this is true, SD would be relegated to SP-only, and that would be a sad fate for such a great abilitiy.



Just a bit.

On April 06 2010 11:57 peckham33 wrote:
I ussually put a side note of some kind when i spell something as closs as my memory lets me but i think it is wrong since my computer dosen't have internet spellcheck and i don't know how to get it.

On April 06 2010 11:57 peckham33 wrote:I ussually put a side note of some kind when i spell something as closs as my memory lets me but i think it is wrong since my computer dosen't have internet spellcheck and i don't know how to get it.

On April 09 2010 12:48 ComradeDover wrote:
The ability gives you something free where normally you would have to pay for it. I refuse to accept that the only use for supply drop is as a crutch for nublets.

On April 09 2010 20:50 ghen wrote:



If I'm coming in your base with an immortal drop, you know the first thing I'm going to is that browner depot. Instant supply block.

A dead mule that finished half it's mining is a much better situation to be in than instantly losing 16 supply.

On April 12 2010 10:46 Kinmaul wrote:
Mule is 50 energy and worth ~270 minerals. Apply a little math and we can see that it is worth 5.4 minerals per energy. If the total cost of a depot is 150 minerals (100 cost + 50 mining time) then it's only worth 3 minerals per energy. Now if we reduced the energy cost of supply drop to 30 energy it's worth 5 minerals per energy. Much more reasonable, in fact I might make a post on the b.net suggestion forums.

On April 12 2010 10:46 Kinmaul wrote:
Mule is 50 energy and worth ~270 minerals. Apply a little math and we can see that it is worth 5.4 minerals per energy. If the total cost of a depot is 150 minerals (100 cost + 50 mining time) then it's only worth 3 minerals per energy. Now if we reduced the energy cost of supply drop to 30 energy it's worth 5 minerals per energy. Much more reasonable, in fact I might make a post on the b.net suggestion forums.

On April 12 2010 11:05 TossFloss wrote:


You disregard the time value of money. 270 minerals now is worth more than 270 minerals evenly distributed over 90 seconds into the future. For your model to make any sense, the mule minerals must be discounted by some factor.

On April 12 2010 11:55 fulmetljaket wrote:
i personally feel that supply drop was meant to be used towards the mid-late game, when you already have an expo, or possibly two. once you have so many minerals coming in, it seems pointless to throw mules in, as you are starved for gas, not minerals.

this does however give you supply at a momnents notice, if you get a few depots killed, you can call in a supply drop for the loss. it also makes you not have to lose worker minerals to build time.

thats just my opinion tho... instead of building depots from 140-150 supply up to 200 supply, you can just use your supply drop to save time and money.

On April 12 2010 11:17 Funchucks wrote:

That doesn't work either, since Starcraft isn't a business where your only goal is to mine minerals, and there are investors to borrow money from and investments to invest money in.

There is no simple way to compare the value of X minerals now to Y minerals later, you can only look at what you could use those minerals for at the time you get them.

On April 14 2010 01:54 Toran7 wrote:
Seems like a huge Zerg problem is overlord sniping, I can imagine that a static defenseless building like a supply dept could be sniped just as easily with clever drops and some unconventional harass.

On March 27 2010 13:13 Tinithor wrote:
Even for like... a timing attack i feel like the extra minerals a mule brings in would be better for getting out more units FAST than the supply drop. I really don't see its uses in high level play (great for new players tho really, cause they already have trouble spending the minerals they have)

On April 14 2010 02:59 metasonic wrote:
^ i thought this had to be done ^

full

On April 16 2010 09:27 Thrill wrote:
It should just add more HP to the building, not a huge buff.

On April 16 2010 09:23 EntSC wrote:
This is a bit random, but if a MULE gives 300 minerals, and a CC provides supply, plus can be lifted when an expo becomes secure enough to take, is there any worth in building spare CCs back in the main base and giving them the orbital upgrade to increase MULE production? They pay for themselves in a single mule over a supply depot, and the only cost is the extra time to build, the 300 mineral opportunity cost whilst you're recouping it through the first MULE, and the fact that you're using up more resources from the mineral patches (but if you can strip mine that much faster it might really help with securing expansions). Just a thought.

On April 18 2010 03:58 peckham33 wrote:
400? where did the 400 come from? mule maxes at just over 300 if done perfectly. supply drop saves 100. so the only 400 i see is the difference in what you gain/save, which doesn't match what you are saying.

On April 18 2010 07:17 caution.slip wrote:



if Starcraft were a game where getting economy is all that mattered then sure, you can build OCs in the back of your base. But why? Why not just build the OC at your expansion so you can get an OC (and the mules/supply) along with 8 new mineral patches and 2 new geysers

If you wanted to use a second OC just for more mules/supply drop/scan then you're investing 550 minerals in something that takes a long time to set up, and won't pay itsself off immediately. Which means you're out 4 marauders or 8 marines whatever else could have saved you when toss came knocking on your door

On April 16 2010 09:45 MidKnight wrote:


Reducing supply depot HP by 100, but having supply drop increase hp by 200-250 and 1 armor might create an interesting tension between all 3 OC abilities.
You might require to use SD to wall-off more safely instead of an early mule, for example

On April 16 2010 09:23 EntSC wrote:
This is a bit random, but if a MULE gives 300 minerals, and a CC provides supply, plus can be lifted when an expo becomes secure enough to take, is there any worth in building spare CCs back in the main base and giving them the orbital upgrade to increase MULE production? They pay for themselves in a single mule over a supply depot, and the only cost is the extra time to build, the 300 mineral opportunity cost whilst you're recouping it through the first MULE, and the fact that you're using up more resources from the mineral patches (but if you can strip mine that much faster it might really help with securing expansions). Just a thought.

On May 21 2010 11:50 Pigsquirrel wrote:
I don't know if anybody has tried it yet, and I haven't seen it mentioned in any of these threads, but, can it be used to break the 200 supply cap.
Probably no, but best to leave no stone unturned.