EPTPatch 6 Notes - Page 14
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
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bendez
Canada283 Posts
o Pathing has been improved so units can now properly block ramps and choke points. NOOOOOOO no more speedling rush through the wall  heheGreat patch. Very satisfied with the changes. | ||
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G4MR
United States371 Posts
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theon.vbn
United States5 Posts
Also keep in mind - Reactor build time used to be 40, not 25 (pre-patch 2). Seems like Blizzard doubled back on that decision... | ||
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Chen
United States6344 Posts
On March 26 2010 10:12 machinus wrote: 1. SCVs should have at least 50 health. anything less than 48 is completely pointless, as scv all-in rushes vs toss would have almost the exact same strength. 50 hp=4 hits from zeals, the exact same as a 60 hp zlot. | ||
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Funchucks
Canada2113 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
REST OF TERRAN BUFFS WTFFF NOOOOOOOOOOO omfg, how did they not touch the marauder at all. That fucker needs to be changed. oh, damn instead of making zerg detection better, they made protoss detection on par. That still doesn't help zerg vs dark templar though. The build time and cost of dark shrine helps a little.. nice, a stalker buff The bling change i like, Seemed like they were too worthless versus anything other than marines. wow the regen nerf on roaches is fucking huge. Now ling/muta might actually be more valid strat. | ||
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
1) this is a beta. the developer may throw some over-nerfs/over-buffs in to see how it effects the game. (when something is underpowered, it's far easier to balance the unit by OVER-buffing and then scaling back, then it is to 'guess the perfect number'. When you're CLOSE to that perfect number but not directly on the perfect number, it takes longer to uncover what's imbalanced). It's similar with overpowered units. When a unit is overpowered, everyone makes it, and everyone makes a lot of it. They're skill with the unit will increase (regardless of its stats). By nerfing it harder than is needed (ie: getting it to a threshold where it's hard to use despite increased familiarity with it), you're better able to measure how far it needs to come back up. 2) none of you know what the fuck you're talking about. you cannot play ~1k matches of a game like Starcraft/Starcraft 2, and have any where close to the skill/experience needed to proximate a hypothesis. Hell, before Bisu came around, many people considered PvZ 'highly imbalanced'. I guarantee the likes of Nal_rA, Reach, and Kingdom were better at SC1 at that time than you are now at SC2. Give it some time. Your opinions are important, but put them forth with a bit of humility - take a moment to acknowledge how ignorant you are. edit - i'd like to point out that i'm not speaking as a player who thinks he's better than you at sc2, but as a game developer who's been in the industry for 4 years - Balance Design in particular. | ||
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DeMusliM
United Kingdom401 Posts
ZvT largely consisted of MMM + ravens/tanks vs ling/baneling/hydra/infestors The fights consisted of marines getting fungal growthed, and being blown up (banelings running around the marauders, then clicking a+move onto the marines) - i automatically assumed that blizz recognised that the matchup was pretty tough for terran to handle. Even without infestors, the zerg could attack+move the terran army, except the banelings and just hunt down the marines (if the marines pulled back, it would leave the marauders to fight the hydras, which would probaly leave the terran in a vulnerable state anyway). Now, the way i see this nerf is - it means that banelings rather than having to avoid the marauder wall (it was the best way of beating zergs who a+moved - running the marines back and letting him blow up the marauders to prevent major losses, and only minor) it means that a+moving everything, including the banelings isn't half as ineffective. Personally i really dislike this change - it gives zerg less reason to micro in fights, but purely concentrate on where to fungal growth. The fact fights are becoming less micro orientated (yes, the baneling buff does decrease the need for micro) i am gradually becoming more skeptical of Blizzard's future plans with this game. I don't believe the patch has looked at the right things - while yes the marine/scv rush was nerfed vs protoss, sure - i don't believe it's helped protoss at all. The more reliable Marauder expo strategy was buffed (less gas cost, faster starports) and stalker buffing won't make a difference vs marauder but will probaly be less effective (same damage vs armoured, 8+6 10+4, but less with upgrades) slower immortal, and more cost on observers. I can only see this further swaying the matchups in favour, of what they were already in favour of. Protoss will lose to Terrans more frequently, and Terrans will further struggle vs Zergs. Obviously my main gripe is with the Baneling buff, but also the reactor nerf (this wasn't even part of any of the "scv/rine rush"), personally it just feels as if blizz really want to remove all micro factors in this game, and just turn it into a a+move slugfest. Not impressed at all... | ||
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DragonDefonce
United States790 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On March 26 2010 11:14 Attica wrote: It used to take 9 banelings to kill a marauder. That's 450/225 to kill one unit. I think blizzard just wanted them to be a little more cost efficient vs armored units. I think the DT nerf was an adjustment to the scv nerf because now they 1 shot scvs. People keep saying that about the DT nerf, but that's not really how DT's work. Either you detect them and they're useless, or you don't and they kill everything you have. If you have a DT in your mineral line, who cares if they one or twoshot your workers, you're dead =P Also: banelings do splash damage so that's not exactly a fair comparison. I don't think banelings should ever be "cost efficient" against armored units. If banelings were cost efficient against marauders AND marines then ..well damn =P. That being said marauders will still soak up alot of banelings so I'm hoping it won't make too much of a difference. | ||
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shruburb
18 Posts
On March 26 2010 11:21 Feefee wrote: If you have a DT in your mineral line, who cares if they one or twoshot your workers, you're dead =P One shotting workers means you don't get alerts.. | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
It's not that they are afraid dark temps are suddenly becoming more powerful vs. terran, the race with the built-in always going to get scan option and cheapest tower/turret option. I mean in BW and SC2 Z and P always had to put up with Dark Templar threats and never had an uhoh button in a scan or a worker that yelled help in SC/BW b/c- it didn't one shot die. It is that they want to test certain things and want to take dark templars out of the picture for this patch. I have a feeling, without Dark Templar as a quick (OK, not quick... zero) threat, they are looking if Protoss can manage vs Terran if they go non-robo tech. Or at least less dependent on robo. Then again immortals are still juicy... so I dunno. But the obvious dynamics that are changed/things they are testing: a. Protoss don't have to worry about SCV/Marine rushes, but do have to worry about bunkers and/or marauders. This patch is testing zealot strength vs certain Terran builds and Marauder strength against all Protoss builds. b. Protoss harass has a chance of killing workers who aren't 60 HP tanks. Colossi can still one shot drones/probes, but SCVs still take 2 shots, so it's not that. Blink harrass? Ummm... I can't see it happening but OK maybe in some insane build on the perfect map. Zealot/HT drop? Yeah, probably. Or just general drops with warp-ins. c. Colossus can't one shot marines. So you may expect more High Templar play. They want to test if Protoss can genuinely advance to mid and/or late game by going mostly all gateway tech. The observer nerf (which is horrible IMO, Protoss always have the worst time scouting early and mid game) also decreases the urge to go Robo tech. d. Just how strong Marauders are in general. e. If Protoss can hang vs. Mutas with the new stalker. That's why no Phoenix buff. Yet. f. If Zerg will use banelings more in general. g. How good ghosts should be. h. Terran mech builds. Oh, and I called that SCV 45 HP change over a decade ago. More to the point I've been playing a ton of Terran lately in SC2, and I think that the drop is absolutely fine... even expected. The only thing bad that could come of the SCV nerf is if they really do die too easily while creating buildings. If so the fix should be that they aren't targetable when building, *except* when building bunkers, to avoid overpowered bunker rushes. Or hell take half damage while building non-bunkers... with the new fancy engine that should be easy. Although their repair speed has been nerfed so hugely from SC/BW, I'm not horribly worried about a bunker rush being overpowered at a glance. Except we still have salvage as Terran. -evil grin- | ||
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On March 26 2010 11:22 shruburb wrote: One shotting workers means you don't get alerts.. Even in SC2? Are you sure about that? Not that that would change in any way by a longer dark shrine build time either^^; | ||
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eNtitY~
United States1293 Posts
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r4j2ill
Canada111 Posts
tho factory cost is sweet for helliions those reactor is pretty uncalled for | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
On March 26 2010 11:21 Feefee wrote: People keep saying that about the DT nerf, but that's not really how DT's work. Either you detect them and they're useless, or you don't and they kill everything you have. If you have a DT in your mineral line, who cares if they one or twoshot your workers, you're dead =P Also: banelings do splash damage so that's not exactly a fair comparison. I don't think banelings should ever be "cost efficient" against armored units. If banelings were cost efficient against marauders AND marines then ..well damn =P. That being said marauders will still soak up alot of banelings so I'm hoping it won't make too much of a difference. 1 hit from a DT can be huge. Let's say they get 4 hits off pre-patch before you pull away your SCVs, bring back your forces, and throw down a scan. That's 2 SCVs lost, + the SCVs lost during the action. Post-Patch, if they get 4 hits off, that's 4 SCVs dead. It kills TWICE as many SCVs before you can do something about it. When looking at larger scales, it's even more noticable. What if they DT rush both your expansion and your main? What if multiple DTs are dropped, doubling the rate of attack? As for banelings, you've got to admit they were absolutely terrible against Marauders. If you were using Marines and met Banelings, you could transition to Marauders relatively quickly, nullifying any further damage. With the buff, you can't do that without feeling SOME pain. Also, look at it in conjunction with the Reactor build time increase; there will no longer be as many Marines on the field, reducing the Baneling's potential. The solution? Make it not absolutely suck against Marauders, which will be seen comparatively more than pre-patch, relative to Marines. | ||
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Freezard
Sweden1019 Posts
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Mora
Canada5235 Posts
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
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