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Think there is a simple solution to this problem: Just as siege tanks do friendly fire damage, make banelings do ff damage when they explode.
This will force the zerg player micro a lot more and not just roll over the marines with one big bunch of banelings.
I (plat) was just on a 13 win streak game as terran and lost game 14 to a zerg.
I have been micro my marines a lot, spreading them out and sacrificing 1 or 2 to blow up the banelings. This game the zerg just made a few too many banelings and it was impossible to manage it.
I think my suggestion of friendly fire explosion would make it require equal micro for the both the zerg and terran in the mm vs ling/baneling fight.
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On March 20 2010 00:37 NOTIP wrote:
Think there is a simple solution to this problem: Just as siege tanks do friendly fire damage, make banelings do ff damage when they explode.
This will force the zerg player micro a lot more and not just roll over the marines with one big bunch of banelings.
I (plat) was just on a 13 win streak game as terran and lost game 14 to a zerg.
I have been micro my marines a lot, spreading them out and sacrificing 1 or 2 to blow up the banelings. This game the zerg just made a few too many banelings and it was impossible to manage it.
I think my suggestion of friendly fire explosion would make it require equal micro for the both the zerg and terran in the mm vs ling/baneling fight.
If two banelings dies it would trigger a chain reaction killing the whole zerg army lol!
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I'm not sure after reading the OP - have you tried using Hellions with their upgrade, both on their own and with the rest of your units?
edit:
If you don't believe me - try to micro 1 baneling with hellion.
Hellions do splash right? Why do you give an example of 1 against 1?
Also don't you need Medivacs anyways? Can some of them be used to rescue your Hellions when they get surrounded?
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On March 19 2010 22:42 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 20:53 raga4ka wrote:On March 19 2010 07:34 Ninja4ever. wrote:On March 19 2010 06:37 mnofstl007 wrote:On March 19 2010 05:40 superstartran wrote:
You're dumb. Speedlings can surround 4 Helions so fast it's not even funny. Sure, if you invested 2k minerals + gas into the attack upgrade, yeah Helions rape Lings. But if you put that many resources into Helions, he's gonna scout it and go into Mutas and rofl all over you.
how? How do you let a slower unit get a surround on you? Even if they manage to kill 4 hellions with attack upgrade (curious how this is 2000 minerals btw care to share your math?) You have doneit at the cost of a LOT of your lings which NEED the 100/100 upgrade to even stand a chance of killing a hellion. Lings without the 100/100 are free food to even a single hellion unless you dont know how to micro a hellion. If a zerg chases a running hellion, it stops and shoots a line of fire straight through all of your lings. Repeat. How can hellions lose to lings? Only way is if a better play is playing Z and the T player isnt micro'ing, but analyzing a scenario in which one is obviously better is useless for balance issues. If he goes mass muta what is keeping ur hellions from killing all of his workers? Also- build marines? they cost 50 minerals and counter Muta's hard. U have a barracks, at least one. If you know "he is going spire" and didnt stop producing hellions an change into a something that can kill muta's...why should u win? And to the person who said u cant micro hellions in a battle... why? And if he is using banelings why would u want ur hellions in the back? From my experience, speedling are faster than hellion. I spend my days microing hellion tvz as it is currently my standart bo and it's REALLY easy for zerg to exchange hellions with speedlings. I'm not a total newb as i'm top 5 platinum, so my micro isn't bad. And btw, no zerg will go straight to muta, they will make just enough roach for your hellion to not do anything, so your argument " but if muta you kill drone lolzor " isn't really valid. And marines won't hard counter mutas, he'll just avoid them and harasse you. Lings aren't really good against large # of hellions . 8 Hellions can kill a shit ton of lings with the upgrade for light damage and micro even 4 or 6 hellions are hard to stop with lings even with speed upgrade . Mass speed lings vs 4 Helions = win for Z.
when you say things like this, it makes people ignore you
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On March 20 2010 03:19 beetlelisk wrote:I'm not sure after reading the OP - have you tried using Hellions with their upgrade, both on their own and with the rest of your units? edit: Hellions do splash right? Why do you give an example of 1 against 1? Also don't you need Medivacs anyways? Can some of them be used to rescue your Hellions when they get surrounded?
hellions are useless vs so many speed ling
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On March 20 2010 04:40 Tarson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 03:19 beetlelisk wrote:I'm not sure after reading the OP - have you tried using Hellions with their upgrade, both on their own and with the rest of your units? edit: If you don't believe me - try to micro 1 baneling with hellion. Hellions do splash right? Why do you give an example of 1 against 1? Also don't you need Medivacs anyways? Can some of them be used to rescue your Hellions when they get surrounded? hellions are useless vs so many speed ling
It's hard to imagine 24 splash damage to be useless you know :/ correct me if I'm wrong but that's Hellion attack versus light targets after it's upgrade at Tech Lab?
edit: nvm uploading a screenshot, I don't see anything changing that in the patch notes
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It surely gives a lot of advantage to zerg in early game but if banellings do no dmg when they die, it will be a big disadvantage for zerg. Banellings are weak in late games as rines gets extra health and the attack upgrade for mm makes alot of difference. personally tvz is my strongest. Also about position it's same as starcraft 1 it depends on how you position and how you attack while your opponent is not prepared. Scout with scv and fight in a good position. don't forget the tanks in tvz(really rapes hydra )
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On March 19 2010 06:59 UdderChaos wrote:
Those of you suggesting hellions are missing quite an important point, hellions costs high minerals as well as marines
lol?
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@ Tarson and Strelok: you know about this upgrade and you have tried using Hellions after researching it right?
Otherwise... oh my god there is no micro in this game -____-
On March 20 2010 05:34 dogabutila wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2010 06:59 UdderChaos wrote:
Those of you suggesting hellions are missing quite an important point, hellions costs high minerals as well as marines lol?
ROFL hahahahaha
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I think some cost or build time should be increased. Because after one battle zerg recovers really fast.
Banelings still can be killed by anything: hellion, tanks, maradeurs.
The problem is that zerg gets them very quickly and controls map right away.
Don't nerf it to be useless, nerf it to be hard to get.
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I think they should change banelings to not do all of its damage instantly. Make it do its damage over time so that yes they will still kill everything they do now but it still lets the hit units survive a little longer. Kinda like plague but from rolling balls from hell.
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On March 19 2010 21:39 diehilde wrote:
here is the deal - former top sc1 players get raped by Dimaga over and over again. Since they cant accept someone is just plain better than them, they call imbalance. Good lord ive had more than my fair share of formerly good sc1 players crying about imbalance like a lil baby after they lost to me just because im not a known sc1 player and they feel they have to beat me or else it must be imbalance. (Not saying that about strelok though, he is as mannered as the other ukranians).
Since your post also refers a bit to me; Its ridiculous that Zerg players think they are plainly playing better than any other player. Its just not true; right now Zerg is overpowered and if you play your race right, you shouldn't lose! If you could accept it, I wouldn't even mind losing, but you guys are like : "Hey, learn to play your race; you can easily beat Zerg" when you never tried to play TvZ vs someone who can actually abuse the imbalance yourself.
Edit; I've tried marauder circles around my army; hellions, Tanks, Medivacs with Scvs and scans to spot baneling and drop scvs in the middle to make some of them explode and it works if Zerg isn't aware, but if the Zerg is really good, he'll research burrow and burrow his banelings all over the map and you have to wait for a Raven, gives him chance to
1) expand more than you can
2) mass more since Ravens are expensive
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I find top terran players quite unmanner compared to other races:
Idra, Morrow, Fenix.
They often do not admit that they played worse than opponents when they lose. (But sometimes they do it for fun)
Maybe thats why a lot of terrans cry about imbalance. no offense
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right now Zerg is overpowered and if you play your race right, you shouldn't lose!
Do you play your race right? Do you use all upgrades (like the 1 for Hellions) necessary?
Do you use Medivacs in other ways than just a flying Medics?
Hey it's ok to ignore an upgrade that takes what, 160 seconds and 150 minerals and gas for few games but 600 ?????
I'm still waiting for insight from someone who has used upgraded, 24 splash damage dealing Hellions.
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I'm still waiting for insight from someone who has used upgraded, 24 splash damage dealing Hellions
Do you play your race right? Do you use all upgrades (like the 1 for Hellions) necessary?
do you know what you are talking about?
banelings are not light armor.
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On March 20 2010 07:09 Stimmmed wrote: Show nested quote +I'm still waiting for insight from someone who has used upgraded, 24 splash damage dealing Hellions
Do you play your race right? Do you use all upgrades (like the 1 for Hellions) necessary?
do you know what you are talking about? banelings are not light armor.
Banelings are light;
Modifiers: Light - Biological
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On March 20 2010 07:09 Stimmmed wrote: Show nested quote +I'm still waiting for insight from someone who has used upgraded, 24 splash damage dealing Hellions
Do you play your race right? Do you use all upgrades (like the 1 for Hellions) necessary?
do you know what you are talking about? banelings are not light armor.
They are light. Dunno how you could even think they weren't.
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On March 20 2010 07:09 Stimmmed wrote: Show nested quote +I'm still waiting for insight from someone who has used upgraded, 24 splash damage dealing Hellions
Do you play your race right? Do you use all upgrades (like the 1 for Hellions) necessary?
do you know what you are talking about? banelings are not light armor.
For the love of god I hope you don't have a beta key.
FYI you need to be funny to troll and not get banned for it in the end. Or maybe you are pbu?
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problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy338/beetlelisk/hellionafterupgrade.png)
