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On March 20 2010 07:51 DeMusliM wrote:
problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras.
I agree, and not even that works if the zerg does it right.
TvZ = impossible if it's just not something we're not getting :/
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On March 20 2010 07:53 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:51 DeMusliM wrote:
problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras. I agree, and not even that works if the zerg does it right. TvZ = impossible if it's just not something we're not getting :/
Its as any Terran player stated by now, there are counters to everything that Zerg can throw at you, but they are either too expensive , or too late in tech or just too hard to pull off.
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On March 20 2010 07:51 DeMusliM wrote:
problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras.
Listen to this guy. His series vs Dimaga on ESL shows the best play against banelings I have seen so far. Not by using gay countering units but by having the better micro.
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On March 20 2010 22:34 Slunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:51 DeMusliM wrote:
problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras. Listen to this guy. His series vs Dimaga on ESL shows the best play against banelings I have seen so far. Not by using gay countering units but by having the better micro.
I have pretty good control over my units with using marauders as shields, but if your opponent abuses Zerg he'll have creep all over the map when your push with massive amounts of marauder/marine/medivacs hit and he can engage from a lot of angles. Also 'speed banelings' on creep are insane, if you mix a few lings in them and add mutas, Terran is totally fucked. A game or more exactly a certain match up shouldn't be about someone being able to somehow pull a miracle in micro to give him a chance in winning.
It should be possible to win without the perfect control / split.
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On March 20 2010 05:34 beetlelisk wrote:@ Tarson and Strelok: you know about this upgrade and you have tried using Hellions after researching it right? Otherwise... oh my god there is no micro in this game -____- Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 05:34 dogabutila wrote:On March 19 2010 06:59 UdderChaos wrote:
Those of you suggesting hellions are missing quite an important point, hellions costs high minerals as well as marines lol? ROFL hahahahaha
Try using Hellions and Patrol Micro. Hellion attack animation is ridiculously long and speed lings are ridiculously fast. Unless you reach a critical number of Hellions they get owned by mass speedlings. Once the lings reach the Hellions they die so fast, and only hit one ling at a time. Failsauce. I hope Blizzard will fix Hellion animation, as that is what is really holding that unit back ;/
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On March 20 2010 22:34 Slunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 07:51 DeMusliM wrote:
problem with hellions vs banelings, due to their fairly short range (or by short, i mean long annimation time) by the time the shots been fired the baneling was around close, thus meaning your helions take a huge hit.
Only thing i've found affective so far is good marauder/rine micro vs a flock of banelings/lings - everything else is just not cost effective or good vs other units such as roachs or hydras. Listen to this guy. His series vs Dimaga on ESL shows the best play against banelings I have seen so far. Not by using gay countering units but by having the better micro.
thanks ! :D
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On March 20 2010 22:40 G.s)NarutO wrote:
I have pretty good control over my units with using marauders as shields, but if your opponent abuses Zerg he'll have creep all over the map when your push with massive amounts of marauder/marine/medivacs hit and he can engage from a lot of angles. Also 'speed banelings' on creep are insane, if you mix a few lings in them and add mutas, Terran is totally fucked. A game or more exactly a certain match up shouldn't be about someone being able to somehow pull a miracle in micro to give him a chance in winning.
It should be possible to win without the perfect control / split.
So, if he abuses zerg, why dont you just abuse terran? Terran has dropships by default and zerg is pretty spreadout if he has 3 or 4 bases. Just one idea, terran has a lot of possibilities.
Terran never was an easy race to play. You have the strongest army in the game, but also the most demanding one to use, just like in Broodwar. As a solid terran player you rarely use to worse players, but also rarely win against better. Deal with it or switch races.
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by having better micro isnt a counter
if u wanna balance this game u wanna count both races having just as good micro, not that terran has to micro better than zerg lol
in sc1 it was insanely hard for both t and z to micro
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I don't get that whole DMG vs certain Unit-types anyways - it's so unnecessary or just way too strong.
Small Units like Zerglings/Marines get owned by AoE of maybe Hellions, Banelings or Collossi anyways, so why the extra damage on top of that? -,,-°
This hard-counter-system is so annoying and forces you into playing certain Units, instead of being creative...
I would understand maybe a little bonus-dmg from certain Units against Buildings or Bigger Units, but in a very moderate way. But AoE Dmg that does more Dmg to small/light Units, who get more hits from one shot anyways (just because more of them are in the AoE) - that's just stupid.
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On March 20 2010 23:06 MorroW wrote:
by having better micro isnt a counter
if u wanna balance this game u wanna count both races having just as good micro, not that terran has to micro better than zerg lol
in sc1 it was insanely hard for both t and z to micro
Starcraft is known and loved for the different ways the races work. Consequently different tasks and abilities are required to play different races. For example, you cannot say protoss is too easy because they don't have to ballance unit and worker production like zerg has to, etc..
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On March 20 2010 23:26 Slunk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2010 23:06 MorroW wrote:
by having better micro isnt a counter
if u wanna balance this game u wanna count both races having just as good micro, not that terran has to micro better than zerg lol
in sc1 it was insanely hard for both t and z to micro Starcraft is known and loved for the different ways the races work. Consequently different tasks and abilities are required to play different races. For example, you cannot say protoss is too easy because they don't have to ballance unit and worker production like zerg has to, etc..
Maybe you should try Terran before talking big. MorroW, me, DeMusliM, LucifroNNN and every other Terran agrees that its insanely difficult (NOT IMPOSSIBLE) to win vs an abusive Zerg. You tell me to abuse my race and point out that I should use medivacs. You know what? - I did. The Zerg army is so mobile and medivacs are slow; speedlings will be ready for defence in no time.
I tried to use a medivac with 4 marauders to snipe the queen and head back to my base, but its just not worth the effort. Please put more thought into something before judging other players abilities.
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Sorry, if it sounded like I judged other players, but to me, terran is a special race. I am used to thinking of terran playes as those with balls. Maybe you are right and all races should have equal requirement in terms of skill, but then again, this would mess with the basic idea of the terran army being a glass cannon.
And by the way, yes, I tried terran and yes I sucked horribly, but this is just another point why I respect good terran players so much.
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I don't mind if playing Terran is hard and I don't mind if my army is actually a glass cannon, but right now you can't gain advantage by abusing the map for example. Good Terran players always had to move their army and gain a positional advantage, at least in TvP. In TvZ it was a huge gain if you move around, because Zerg couldn't know where you attack.
In Starcraft 2 you can barely scout without wasting your energy (MULE) but I agree that sometimes information are worth more than minerals. You also can't move out and gain map control, since you are in the defending spot against a Zerg with speedlings/banelings. If the Zerg abuses his abilities (i.e burrow for burrowed banelings) you can't even move out without wasting scans/having a raven.
Things I'd like to see:
- 30% speed advantage for Zerg on Creep should decrease to 20%
- Lings should be slower / as fast as probe/scv so you can actually scout (they can be faster on creep)
- Speedlings should be slightly decreased in speed, but still be faster than scv/probe/hellion
- Banelings shouldn't deal damage when they get killed
Thats all I'd change for now and see how TvZ develops.
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demuslim is doing well vs banelings. blocking and tanking the damage with the marauder, while drawing back the marines a little bit.
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On March 21 2010 00:07 zul wrote:
demuslim is doing well vs banelings. blocking and tanking the damage with the marauder, while drawing back the marines a little bit.
1) He doesn't use Ravens , so burrowed Banelings would destroy him
2) Mass Baneling are totally different from 10-12 Banelings mixed in an army
3) Muta/Baneling is insane-_-
I respect GladHeAteHer and admit that he's really good, but we all agree that banes are too strong 
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i think they should change so t/p get slower by 5% on creep and z faster by 5% instead of giving z +30% speed, its absolutely ridiculous, why in gods name would u move faster on ur creep?
thats like saying a polar bear moves faster on snow than grass, no he doesnt xd
but i think naturo makes many good points, in sc1 u could kinda move around on the map with both races while in sc2 its either full mapcontrol or 0 mapcontrol
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Make the baneling 20 life and cost 25 more gas.
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also on a sidenote lings shouldnt be able to kill scouting scv's probes without the speed upgrade.
also hatchery build time should be increased by 5-10 seconds... i m reffering to dimaga vs morrow? or someone game on Metalopolis where he takes rich minerals and with drone micro and lings timing is safe from 11rax ... thats just ridic. There have been other instances of this aswell.
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i do use ravens, but the gas cost is very heavy. My plot last game was to keep the game at below 100 supply armies, so he couldn't really flank me, keeping his bases to a minimum and keeping his hydras at a low count.
While yes banelings are hard to deal with, i still think that hydras are ridiculously strong :S
Things i've mentioned before - i'd like to see banelings doing FF damage to none baneling units(so the banelings themselves don't hurt each other - similar to alien acidblood!), so you can't run them in with zerglings - but you have to run them in from a different angle, or burrow suprise - so there's some thought behind using them - but i'd also like to see maybe a range upgrade for marines, now i know that maybe a suprise but - marines/medivacs/marauders actually lose in a straight up fight vs pure hydra, which is kinda sad, but it's mainly down to the fact you have 2 rows of hydras shooting vs 1 row of marines (the range is too short for anything else).
Those are probaly the 2 things that i'd like to see most in tvz - or a range decrease on hydras - and the upgrade making them equal to rines.
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I dont agree, I've played with players that can secure as many bases as avarage zerg player. Bunkers are not expensive, they eat dmg pretty well, and if they are no longer needed - you can sell them again. The problem is not in defending. Problem is in attacking. Watch Dimaga vs Morrow game from Zotac. Morrow went mass tanking and 3-d base. Dimaga just switched to ultralisks. Morrow could do nothing.
Now go watch Dimaga's zerg style get completely raped by Lucifronnnn. Why should 1 Terran build(MMM) beat everything zerg can do? MMM was to counter roach/hydra so zerg switched to ling/banes to counter MMM, well to counter that all Terran has to do is go hellion + vikings or banshees.
You're not trying to help the game you're trying to simplify it to one Terran strat > anything a zerg can do to counter it and that's just lame.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i805.photobucket.com/albums/yy338/beetlelisk/hellionafterupgrade.png)
