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On March 13 2010 06:06 _EmIL_ wrote:
CharlieMurphy, have you ever seen stalkers in mid-late games? No. It's most of the time immortals. Marauders just eat Stalkers. This is SC2, not SC1. I cant think of any situation where stalkers would do good.. I dno. Thats how it looks like ATM.
Theyre good vs reaper harass for one. Probably good for other things too. I dont have beta and even I know that...
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On March 13 2010 06:07 MorroW wrote:
when will EU get the new patch? man i dont wanna ladder for pts until i get new patch, jesus tvp and tvz will be soooo much easier now
Ok, your points could already qualify as "ownage". What happens now?
Keep up the good work 
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Overall a great patch, but I think having both an HP and range nerf on the Infestor is a bit excessive. I think just an HP nerf or at least a less severe range nerf would have been better. Good that you can't NP a mothership anymore though... that was ridiculous lol.
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I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES 
I want to cry...
I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP?
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I never realised burrow needed such a huge nerf.
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On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP?
They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches...
roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs
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so, the infestor NP is now perm? Or do you get your unit back once you kill it? Has anybody tested yet?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
:'(
well least the warp gate time changed but that Hydra and burrow time change hurts the most IMO. No more timing roach burrow attacks :'(
I never Really relied on nydus' for wins so I don't Really care bout that. Least you can still poop more than one at a time...pretty much HAVE to do that now to get it to do any damage instead of sneaking a quick single one off somewhere.
This patch was unfortunately inevitable. I look forward to >8min pvp's now though lol. I think this patch in general just discourages short games which is a plus overall.
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For those of you complaining that the warp gate research time increase makes it much harder to pvt and pvz, I think this is a good change (I play toss in platinum).
PvT you needed warpgates to fend off a timing marauder/marine push before your collosus comes out after you scout them with an ob - but you still have imba force field - one unit which will have 2-3 forcefields, still buying you enough time to fend off the push before your collossus comes out. Warpgate needed at this point in the game? No. All other timing pushes, warp gate research would be done by then.
PvZ you could have used warpgate to pretty much instantly deny a lair-hatch natural expo with a 2-gate and 1 or 2 immortal push. Now it's nerfed, so zerg will have a chance at fending this off without major losses.
PvP the huge increase in warp gate research timing will allow u to get an immortal or two out, allowing each game to last more than 8 minutes.
tl;dr? Thanks Blizzard, this one nerf solved multiple problems at once, while not making it any worse for Protoss.
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On March 13 2010 06:25 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP? They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches... roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs
Not true at all...There is a roach timing push ZvP that I have trouble dealing with... basically if u 2gate port, GG. usually yes they do have burrow but not 100%... sometimes just enough roaches will do it
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On March 13 2010 06:26 Antimage wrote:
For those of you complaining that the warp gate research time increase makes it much harder to pvt and pvz, I think this is a good change (I play toss in platinum).
PvT you needed warpgates to fend off a timing marauder/marine push before your collosus comes out after you scout them with an ob - but you still have imba force field - one unit which will have 2-3 forcefields, still buying you enough time to fend off the push before your collossus comes out. Warpgate needed at this point in the game? No. All other timing pushes, warp gate research would be done by then.
PvZ you could have used warpgate to pretty much instantly deny a lair-hatch natural expo with a 2-gate and 1 or 2 immortal push. Now it's nerfed, so zerg will have a chance at fending this off without major losses.
PvP the huge increase in warp gate research timing will allow u to get an immortal or two out, allowing each game to last more than 8 minutes.
tl;dr? Thanks Blizzard, this one nerf solved multiple problems at once, while not making it any worse for Protoss.
lol you could argue that total opposite that the reason and say it was nerfed because 3 warp gate way too stong and so people played accordingly with their own timing pushes =p.
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On March 13 2010 06:28 TheComeback wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:25 Virtue wrote:On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP? They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches... roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs Not true at all...There is a roach timing push ZvP that I have trouble dealing with... basically if u 2gate port, GG. usually yes they do have burrow but not 100%... sometimes just enough roaches will do it
Then don't 2 gate or rely on 2 gating to take easy wins.
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Here are my thoughts on this patch (I play Zerg):
1) The warp gate fix I imagine is intended to fix PvP, I have no idea if this is enough but I hope it is for you guys. Seems like a somewhat bandaid fix; I've never felt like Warp Gates were imbalanced and needed to be higher up in the tech, but perhaps I'm wrong. I liked the "build a pylon by their pylon to make it useless" idea.
2) Nydus Worm being 20 seconds I don't see being feasable at all for assaulting any good player. I'm pretty sure with a build time that long even workers alone could kill it if it was visible when it was placed (and I don't think anyone doesn't have full view of their base by the time worms are available).
3) The neural parasite redesign, imo, is lame. It felt somewhat skillful and balanced being a limited cast from 9 range away -- air and faster ground units (or longer range) could still target them and kill them in a few (120 hp for a 100/150 unit) hits. Now the range is 7 and it lasts forever, but I can only see this being useful vs really mediocre players. At such close ranges and with the additional threat of it lasting forever, everyone will have a much easier time following the HEY FOCUS ME I'M OVER HERE (aka neural parasite line) to kill the now-90 HP Infestor. On the other hand, if somehow your ground army is so beefy they can't get past you, perhaps infestors will be cool. We'll see, I'll have to play games of course to find out. It not working on air is a bummer haha, I've had a lot of clutch parasites for free kills on harassing air units and battlecruisers. Fungal Growth is still good, and Infested Terran still sucks for anything but feeling like a pimp in 2v2 RT (or clutch AA in 1v1 I guess!) imo. I always avoided going mass mutas in PvT because I thought it was sort of a crutch strategy (it's beta so I don't 100% play to win) that would eventually be balanced with protoss AA buffs, but now if the new infestors don't protect me against colossus and immortals well enough I just may nub it up and mass em =p
Oh also burrow being doubled in cost and time bums me out but I think it's fair, I kind of abuse how fast I can get burrow for roaches. I suppose everyone does. I'm not sure if the gas/mineral cost needed to be doubled in addition to time, but maybe?
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Nydus nerf is ridiculous, time should either bet 15s or 20s with LOWERED cost - 200vespane with 20s spawn makes it completely useless as a drop mechanic. Fine for defense, but map specific.
Inferstor nerf is imho completetly terrible - the unit was dying like SHIT anyway, and now with lower range and 1/4 less hp it will vanish in seconds. Who the hell cares if control is permanent, 10s was more then enough anyway.
Burror nerf is fine imo, but should be focused on time only ( even longer, 120 would be ok, but cost should remain same ). Overdoing it again.
Hydra nerf is what I hate the most, as lings + fast hydra was only viable counter to early immortal/zael/sentry push by protoss.
But on another note, how the hell Immortals and Roaches were not touched, ROFL.
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And warp gate nerf pretty much should fix PvP and PvT early rushing. Seems fine, as costs stays the same.
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maybe we'll see more than just 3 warp gate builds against every race from US platinum ranked protoss now...
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 06:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:56 Insane wrote:On March 13 2010 05:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers. Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP. 8 Damage...? They should do 10 damage barring armor. yea I meant half sorry, but I'd still be right versus a unit with armor upgrade. Stalkers probably need that minor buff to light units to be effective though. Mutas, zealots, etc are all light units. And mutas even have 120 hp now.
Mutalisks had 120 life in BW too....?
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On March 13 2010 06:31 Vei wrote:
Here are my thoughts on this patch (I play Zerg):
1) The warp gate fix I imagine is intended to fix PvP, I have no idea if this is enough but I hope it is for you guys. Seems like a somewhat bandaid fix; I've never felt like Warp Gates were imbalanced and needed to be higher up in the tech, but perhaps I'm wrong. I liked the "build a pylon by their pylon to make it useless" idea.
2) Nydus Worm being 20 seconds I don't see being feasable at all for assaulting any good player. I'm pretty sure with a build time that long even workers alone could kill it if it was visible when it was placed (and I don't think anyone doesn't have full view of their base by the time worms are available).
3) The neural parasite redesign, imo, is lame. It felt somewhat skillful and balanced being a limited cast from 9 range away -- air and faster ground units (or longer range) could still target them and kill them in a few (120 hp for a 100/150 unit) hits. Now the range is 7 and it lasts forever, but I can only see this being useful vs really mediocre players. At such close ranges and with the additional threat of it lasting forever, everyone will have a much easier time following the HEY FOCUS ME I'M OVER HERE (aka neural parasite line) to kill the now-90 HP Infestor. On the other hand, if somehow your ground army is so beefy they can't get past you, perhaps infestors will be cool. We'll see, I'll have to play games of course to find out. It not working on air is a bummer haha, I've had a lot of clutch parasites for free kills on harassing air units and battlecruisers. Fungal Growth is still good, and Infested Terran still sucks for anything but feeling like a pimp in 2v2 RT (or clutch AA in 1v1 I guess!) imo. I always avoided going mass mutas in PvT because I thought it was sort of a crutch strategy (it's beta so I don't 100% play to win) that would eventually be balanced with protoss AA buffs, but now if the new infestors don't protect me against colossus and immortals well enough I just may nub it up and mass em =p
Oh also burrow being doubled in cost and time bums me out but I think it's fair, I kind of abuse how fast I can get burrow for roaches. I suppose everyone does. I'm not sure if the gas/mineral cost needed to be doubled in addition to time, but maybe?
well i think the warp gate and the borrow was to change up the game play for pvp and zvz as both were pretty much do 1 build or die. relaying of fast burrow or fast warp gate to lay on the pressure.
as for the worm i think it's absolutely useless now you could already kill the worm with just workers just need to respond quick fuck it makes the worlds loudest noise when it starts now anyone that pays attention can kill it. I've done it plenty of times with just 1 rine and a few scv and more then enough times with just a bunch of scv
and it's not like the worm was free it's 100 mins and 100 gas that's painful to loose that mins to a wasted effort. And even if you are 1 sec late you could kill the worm before he transports alot of units as the nydus already unloaded pretty slow.
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On March 13 2010 06:32 trypt wrote:
maybe we'll see more than just 3 warp gate builds against every race from US platinum ranked protoss now...
true that lol. Although I never really cared about warp gate rushes since all you need to do is micro roaches on creep.
Burrow really should only have had a time nerf, i agree. The double cost is overdoing it.
Infestors actually with infinite time could pluck out a big unit from a retreating army and hang on to it in the back of your own zerg army. I see it playing a different role now. Imagine plucking up a raven and throwing HSM's all game from the back of your army....
Also, can you imagine stealing another race's worker and building your own other race army? When you're already really ahead of course.
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On March 13 2010 05:45 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard there's this thing called an iterative beta, maybe you've heard of it? there will be more patches, if zvp roach is a problem it will get addressed. good lord, you'd think the sky was falling
It's not a problem in and of itself. You can hold it off with immortals.
The problem is that before you could make the choice to build a bunch of sentries OR to fast tech to immortals.
The reason sentries were able to hold off roaches was mainly because you could warp in your first sentry relatively quickly and block off your ramp. With increased warp gate tech time if you're unable to do this it could force protoss to fast tech to immortals versus a hard roach rush which basically makes the protoss easily counterable by a tech to mutas which will be impossible to hold off when you've been spamming immortals instead of a unit that can attack air
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EPT
