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On March 14 2010 08:17 B00ts wrote:
So I waited till I played 30 or so games with this patch before sayign anything... but really.. that Terran marine all in crap is rediculous...
And now.. without warp tech as fast as it was.. I cant keep up with zerg unit production.. even with them expanding and throwing down 300 minerals on a second hatch. (Im not talking about zerg on two base and me(P) on one.. im talkin, before and as the second hatch builds. So even if I do hold off the roach rush, which when I prepare for is easy enough... I get rolled a few minutes later once their second base gets going.
I can't put my finger on what would fix it and not sway things in P's favor too much though... the only thing I can think of is a slight nerf to the queen.. but even that may be too much. Nonetheless, IMO, P really has no answer to the Marine rush (90% of my terran opponents do it now), and no answer to zerg, at all.
Yea, I just played a Zerg who did a pretty fast expand and I couldn't really do anything to stop it before he got the benefits. We'll see how it goes in a bit.
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I think infestor as 100 hp would work best... 1 seeker missile -> boom~
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On March 14 2010 08:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
Yea, I just played a Zerg who did a pretty fast expand and I couldn't really do anything to stop it before he got the benefits. We'll see how it goes in a bit.
Ya, me and a friend just finished doing soem PvZ's ... even knowing his build, excluding any cheese builds, we couldn't come up with anything satisfactory. Meh, 'tis beta anyway
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Having creep as a Nydus Worm requirement sounded like the most practical 'nerf'
OLs could be carrying units to drop before it Generates Creep so the Nydus Worm has protection while building
Nydus Worm time should be 15 or 10 if there was a creep requirement
Infestors may need a Cast While Burrowed Upgrade
Q: If an Infestor can't move while using NP can an OL pick them and their new pet up?
NP Probe/SCV use getaway car (OL) after their hit and run 
Don't know about the capping of opponents supply when you NP their units - If you do capture a SCV/Probe and make a base they share the same 200 food as the rest of your Zerg forces
If the supply cost of a NP unit went against your food cap it would limit Infestors blanket-NPing your opponents forces
Perhaps a Probe/SCV will require 200E to NP but the Infestors can move afterwords
Infestor E would not recharge until it stopped Channeling - SCV dies after Infestor stops channeling
Q2: Can an Infestor NP more then 1 unit at a time? if yes the units food cost should definitely go against your food cap
2X gas + 2X minerals +2X research time = Burrow received a 600% nerf because of the Roach?
How many Zerg players used Burrow for anything other then Roaches?
Roaches should need a separate Burrow research requirement (@ Roach Den 50 M/G/BT) while the rest of the Z ground forces use the former 50/50/50 Burrow upgrade
Or move Roaches to Lair and Hydras back to Hatch
Sc2 Hatch Hydras stats:
75M 50G 90HP base attack 10 ground range 5(6) air range 5(7) upgrades Range (150/150/80) Armored Air damage upgrade +4 V A-Air (100/100/80)
T2 Roach:
Current stats are reasonable for a Lair Roach just make them 2 supply
Overseer - Spawn Changeling is nice and all but they need a second ability or a major HP/A buff
Oversight - Overlord gain detection for 60 seconds cost 150E
Blind - takes away units vision for 90 seconds 150E
Overcast - creates a fog that's acts as a line of sight blocker for opponents air units 150E
Overcharge - Overseers gain Ludicrous Speed for 5 seconds 150E
Shared Vision - timed version of Parasite
Try T2 Lurkers with +3R upgrade at T3 for a few days to feel them out (Ultra Melee splash is just not the same as Colossus/Tank/Sc1 Lurker splash)
Warp Gates could have a cost per Gateway conversion attached to them with reduced research time (10M 10G per Gateway)
Stalkers - 8 base damage is low for a 125/50 unit 10+3A 90SP 90HP
Phoenix - 10+10 instead of the ridiculous 5+5L(2) that only deals 6 damage to Corruptors MS Carriers and only 4 damage to BCs +2R on AG would also be warranted (seeing as how channelling Phoenixs can't attack)
MS - Bliz go the other way with this unit: 500M 500G 400HP 600SP 180BT 10X10 R7 damage 2A 10R Cloaking field movement speed SLIGHTLY slower then normal + Vortex 125E (or no other abilities)
Mass Recall is too similar to Warp-in and if you wanted Sc1 1.5 bring back the Arbiter and beloved Reaver
Terrans
Thor: give them D. Matrix instead of overkill ground damaging ability and/or air splash damage
Hellion - change the concept of this unit to a Hellbat (Hellion + Firebat)
Hellbat - 90HP motorcycle (Macross style) that moves pretty quickly(no attack) Transforms into the buffed Firebat weapons Dual Incinerators 10+4L (10+10L) R 4 or 5 - instead of line splash players aim where they want the center of the explosion to be Radius 1.5
Cool Transformers transforming sound is required for the best sound effect when switching modes
Island Maps would be appreciated to measure Sc2 Air Balance
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Zealot_Alec Canada. March 14 2010 12:30. Posts 2
This is why this forum is littered with idiotic posts and nonsensical dribble.
On a side note, I think people need to stop trying to punish FE builds and learn how to counter FE effectively. The goal shouldn't be to end the game before 10 minutes. How many noncheese & non zvz pro sc1 games end that early? Very very few.
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I'm not sure, it seems that zerg can expand pretty freely against toss right now. Maybe there can be a way that toss can counter expand? but it seems very hard to play PvZ atm.
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On March 14 2010 12:39 Floophead_III wrote:
Zealot_Alec Canada. March 14 2010 12:30. Posts 2
This is why this forum is littered with idiotic posts and nonsensical dribble.
On a side note, I think people need to stop trying to punish FE builds and learn how to counter FE effectively. The goal shouldn't be to end the game before 10 minutes. How many noncheese & non zvz pro sc1 games end that early? Very very few.
That's the point I am making.. P seems to not be able to keep up consistently with unit production EVEN if we are rushing tier 1 / 1.5 .... AND zerg are FE'n.
If I then decided to lower my unit production further and expand myself, I get owned every time. Don't get me wrong.. I'm no pro at starcraft and don't claim to be.. but its a little bit rediculous right now.
Basically what im saying is in a PvZ right now.. if both expand at the same time, then if their armies meet in the middle..zerg wins pretty easily (assuming a fair matchup of unit choices I mean...im not saying roaches are rolling immortals or anything like that). It's just pretty difficult right now to keep up with unit production at the moment.
On the other hand.. zerg is really fun right now..lol
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
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On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype
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advice to blizzard:
reduce the health of all zerg units and buildings by 20
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They hit Infestors too hard IMO.
Thats multiple nerfs, and the HitPoint one was just too much I think.
I think they are trying too hard to make it the equal to the Queen in SC1: Really week unit, its building is used to go to Hive... and will only help in rare and extremely well executed circumstances.
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On March 14 2010 12:59 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype
post count = experience at SC?
i thought experience = experience ?
respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it.
obviously this isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general stereotypers stereotype. whoa. I should blew my mind.
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On March 14 2010 13:38 cUrsOr wrote:
They hit Infestors too hard IMO.
Thats multiple nerfs, and the HitPoint one was just too much I think.
I think they are trying too hard to make it the equal to the Queen in SC1: Really week unit, its building is used to go to Hive... and will only help in rare and extremely well executed circumstances.
Totally agree. I laugh a little when I see them playing against zerg. I mean i still lose..but just not as badly. lol
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On March 14 2010 16:20 B00ts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:59 Divinek wrote:On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype post count = experience at SC? i thought experience = experience ? respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it. obviously this isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general stereotypers stereotype. whoa. I should blew my mind.
he said generally. stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason, they usually have a basis in reality. doesnt mean they always hold true but in this case it tends to be quite accurate.
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toss and zerg nerfed a lot (roach and warp gates)
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I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
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It seems like zerg units (especially the hydra) have been getting hit hard. is zerg THAT OP? XD
and I think they did the warp gate change to move away from the inevitable (from what i hear) "well im gunna get warp gates, what are you gunna do about it?"... especially in PvP
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On March 14 2010 17:30 Apa7HY wrote:
I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
2007 is not a seasoned veteran ^^
The Infestor nerf was fine I think. It only really nerfs Neural Parasite, and Fungal Growth was the really strong spell at least for Terran.
On March 14 2010 17:40 Jugan wrote:
It seems like zerg units (especially the hydra) have been getting hit hard. is zerg THAT OP? XD
and I think they did the warp gate change to move away from the inevitable (from what i hear) "well im gunna get warp gates, what are you gunna do about it?"... especially in PvP
Zerg was the strongest race imo.
The Warp Gate change was necessary (or at least, some change of that nature), as PvP was pretty ludicrous. In my experience despite Protosses loudly complaining, it hasn't actually killed P in PvT or PvZ.
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I hope they don't nerf Infestors into oblivion and they become like Queens of starcraft 1... i mean without infestors zerg has NO casters (no defiler equivalent in T3, no idea why they removed that...) and that just sucks. I haven't seen any real mutalisk micro, all thats left are roach and bling cute burrow tricks if they kill the infestor.
Zerg needs a T3 caster i think and Infestor should be viable too.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:20 B00ts wrote:
respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it.
Actually, the point is that people who make those types of posts are likely to have been banned before their post count has gotten sufficiently high, unless they've made some contribution to the community.
On March 14 2010 17:30 Apa7HY wrote:
I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
Most people are too lazy to look up join date.
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EPT
