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United States7166 Posts
servers are up with the new patch
Balance Changes
* PROTOSS
o Cybernetics Core
+ Warp Gate research time increased from 60 seconds to 140 seconds.
* ZERG
o Hatchery/Lair/Hive
+ Burrow research time increased from 50 seconds to 100 seconds.
+ Burrow research cost increased from 50 Minerals and 50 Vespene Gas to 100 Minerals and
100 Vespene Gas. (Note: despite saying Hatchery/Lair/Hive, Burrow still requires Lair. but can be researched by a different Hatchery after having Lair/Hive)
o Nydus Network
+ Nydus Worm build time increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
o Hydralisk
+ The delay between attacks has been increased from 0.75 seconds to 0.83 seconds.
o Infestor
+ Neural Parasite has been redesigned:
# The limited duration of 10 seconds has been removed.
# Can no longer target air units.
# Cast range decreased from 9 to 7.
+ Burrowed Infestor move speed decreased from 1.5 to 1.
+ Infestor life decreased from 120 to 90.
+ Infestors that are burrowed now have the same threat level as above-ground units for the purposes of automatically acquiring targets.
Bug Fixes
* Fixed an issue with High graphics settings that could cause particles not to render.
+ Show Spoiler [ignore my prev red comment] +whoops! I made a mistake with my previous red "correction," regarding the Neural Parasite cast range. Blizzard's patch notes were right; apparently the circle radius indicator was slightly smaller than the actual cast range. so it IS 7 and not 6 like i had so foolishly 'corrected'
source: http://www.starcraft2.com/launcher/patch-notes.htm
so this post isnt totally worthless for the time being, I'll post something new I just learned about chat functionality
We wanted to take some time to share a little bit of helpful information about some of the less obvious chat functionality within the new Battle.net currently in Beta.
When attempting to respond to someone who has messaged you while you are in a game, simply type /r into the message field and press space. You can now enter your message directed at the person messaging you and then press “Enter”.
When responding to multiple people while in a game, you can hit “Tab” and cycle through the list of anyone you’ve talked to or that has messaged you previously in the session (as long as the conversations are still active). To do this simply:
Hit “Enter”
Press “Tab” until you get to the person that recently messaged you or that you messaged
Type in your message
Hit “Enter”
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There better be fix for the known bug with nvidia graphics cards, each patch its been getting worse and worse.
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gogo patch 
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.... Worst. Post. Ever. Thought you woulda at least post the changes. Got my hopes up for nothing. Thanks a lot.
Probe priced tripled, Warpgate production speed increased, Sensor tower's price has been reduced and consume has been introduced to the infestor. You heard it here first! :D
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On March 13 2010 05:11 Energizer wrote:
.... Worst. Post. Ever. Thought you woulda at least post the changes. Got my hopes up for nothing. Thanks a lot.
Probe priced tripled, Warpgate production speed increased, Sensor tower's price has been reduced and consume has been introduced to the infestor. You heard it here first! :D
You sir, deserve a warning for this post -.-
got my heart rate going...
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On March 13 2010 05:10 Monokeros wrote:
There better be fix for the known bug with nvidia graphics cards, each patch its been getting worse and worse.
what
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Ah nice, here's hoping they decide to send out some keys like they did last week at the same time as they released the new patch. (iirc.)
Monokeros, I'm not sure the fix is within Blizzard's hands as the problem has afaik. affected multiple games and not just SC2 or just Blizzard games.
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Psyched. I'd love to see lurkers!
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on another note, pvp better get fixed...
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Oh please let there be some worthwhile zerg changes. I want to play all weekend with some positive changes for once.
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Defense matrix for battlecruisers would be nice =).
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Hopefully, the Stalker will get some love this patch. Terran mech could probably use a few buffs, too.
PvP fixes would be nice, but I'm not holding my breath.
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remove banelings and put in lurkers, nerf roaches and marauders slightly, buff stalkers slightly, buff terran factory units, improve phoenixes a bit and make collusi harder to get out so fast.
and gg!
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Expect a massive Hydralisk nerf.
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-Mothership can no longer fly
+ Show Spoiler +Just kidding. You should have seen the look on your face.
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Balance Changes
* PROTOSS
o Cybernetics Core
+ Warp Gate research time increased from 60 seconds to 140 seconds.
* ZERG
o Hatchery/Lair/Hive
+ Burrow research time increased from 50 seconds to 100 seconds.
+ Burrow research cost increased from 50 Minerals and 50 Vespene Gas to 100 Minerals and 100 Vespene Gas.
o Nydus Network
+ Nydus Worm build time increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
o Hydralisk
+ The delay between attacks has been increased from 0.75 seconds to 0.83 seconds.
o Infestor
+ Neural Parasite has been redesigned:
# The limited duration of 10 seconds has been removed.
# Can no longer target air units.
# Cast range decreased from 9 to 7.
+ Burrowed Infestor move speed decreased from 1.5 to 1.
+ Infestor life decreased from 120 to 90.
+ Infestors that are burrowed now have the same threat level as above-ground units for the purposes of automatically acquiring targets.
Bug Fixes
* Fixed an issue with High graphics settings that could cause particles not to render.
Good fixes, the bug fix will fix up ESL TV's stream nicely
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Nerf all around, awesome... Except for the infestor the one unit I hate.
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I never liked using /r to reply to someone. Sometimes I get a message from another person right before I send out a message and that would get things screwed up.
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United States7166 Posts
these seem to be accurate, where'd you get these?
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Solid changes in my opinion. GJ blizz!
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Can an infester infest an infester? And what happens if the infested infester already infested something (or even another infester).
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Very sad that warp gates nerfed, but very happy that hydras have been nerfed as well!
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This patch is truly excellent all around. Warp gates getting a nerf and Zerg overall. Good patch.
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HALLEFUCKINGLUJAH THANK YOU BLIZZARD
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Rofl. Just played a match and couldn't figure out why I had to blow 3-4 charges on my Warp Gate research :o
That would've been nice to know before losing to a Silver player ~_~
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BEST PATCH EVER
terran actually has a chance now
or well we'll see a lot more terrans in ladders
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Still nothing @ EU - mehhhhhhhhhhhhh T_T
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Lol, for some reason when I patched it didn't show these notes. It said something about Korean shit. So I went about my normal warpgate pvp business and was like "Something is very wrong here". I lost. T_T
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Good patch! warp gates nerf really needed!
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Great patch. Nerf everyone but Terran  . The Warp Gate change was extremely necessary
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I never liked using /r to reply to someone. Sometimes I get a message from another person right before I send out a message and that would get things screwed up.
I hate that as well, they should make it so that when you hit spacebar after /r it auto pastes that last persons name so this doesn't happen.
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By the time we get to release Zealots will attack with wiffle bats....
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United States4991 Posts
Some really great changes from Blizzard on this patch
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As long as they don't touch my overlord speed upgrade I'm happy.
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On March 13 2010 05:28 PokePill wrote:
Can an infester infest an infester? And what happens if the infested infester already infested something (or even another infester).
Whoa, I think that will implode the SC2 universe and Bnet2.0!
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Good that I never really bothered using infestors. Now they probably are very weak against collossi and they even die to a single HSM.
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My favorite part of this patch is that its a lot easier to keep my Colossi safe from the evil bastard infestors.
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wow @ the infestor unlimited time control
oversky is going to love this with his mass roach 3 infestor build. very hard to stop and now probably impossible.
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On March 13 2010 05:38 Mohdoo wrote:
My favorite part of this patch is that its a lot easier to keep my Colossi safe from the evil bastard infestors.
Except for the part where they permanently take control of all of your colossus and use them to kill your army.
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On March 13 2010 05:39 aLt)nirvana wrote:
wow @ the infestor unlimited time control
oversky is going to love this with his mass roach 3 infestor build. very hard to stop and now probably impossible.
I don't really think so. I think that with the HUGE HP decrease and the range decrease, its gonna be easier to just kill the damn things. Before they could do all sorts of nasty shit and not even be in range of fire. But now a little focusing will make them go splat easy.
On March 13 2010 05:40 bodysnatcher21 wrote:
Except for the part where they permanently take control of all of your colossus and use them to kill your army.
I really don't think it'll be that bad. Killing the Infestor stops it right? How about using my tractor beams?
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Love the PvP changes!
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Hmm will have to start researching burrow a little bit earlier but ZvZroach+1 still works :3.
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On March 13 2010 05:35 spinesheath wrote:
Good that I never really bothered using infestors. Now they probably are very weak against collossi and they even die to a single HSM.
They're still pretty useful especially without the 10 second thing.. Just require more intelligence about using them. They should be squishy since they're casters and when they're so far away they're a little too safe. The range is still 1 higher than fungal growth which is a very good thing to use... It just means you've gotta be more creative about pulling the thors/colossi in close I think
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On March 13 2010 05:39 aLt)nirvana wrote:
wow @ the infestor unlimited time control
oversky is going to love this with his mass roach 3 infestor build. very hard to stop and now probably impossible.
-2 range and -30 hp
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:39 aLt)nirvana wrote:
wow @ the infestor unlimited time control
oversky is going to love this with his mass roach 3 infestor build. very hard to stop and now probably impossible.
If anything, this looks like a nerf of infestors to me. Range decrease AND hitpoint decrease is going to make it much less of a "hah, MC from a million miles away nothing you can do!" and more of a "oh he's got my <x>, time to focus fire that infestor"
Battles don't last THAT long--10 seconds was usually enough that the battle would be seriously impacted by the time that was over.
This also increases the viability of stealing Terran race with Zerg lol!
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Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard
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United States7166 Posts
infestor changes are weird, they die even faster (90 hp, 0 armor, but "Armored") have to be very close to cast neural parasite, cant cast on air but it doesnt expire. i dont think the expiration 'buff' is that important, 10 seconds was long enough. i guess now you can use it on scvs to build command centers easier now? lol
infestors die in 2 shots from colossus as well, and super fast to other units :/
pretty major nerfs
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Just going to put in into perspective for, burrow nerfs, infestors nerfs and nydus nerfs, I never actually used any of these and still win majority of my games in plat.
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Now that infestor have unlimited MC.. I guess it's relevant to ask can infestors move while controlling something? Thinking about unit capture possibilities...workers too..
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:43 Zelniq wrote:
infestor changes are weird, they die even faster (90 hp, 0 armor, but "Armored") have to be very close to cast neural parasite, cant cast on air but it doesnt expire. i dont think the expiration 'buff' is that important, 10 seconds was long enough. i guess now you can use it on scvs to build command centers easier now? lol
basically colossus with ranged upgrade almost doubles the range of infestor. also infestors die in 2 shots from colossus as well, and super fast to other units :/
pretty major nerfs
Exaggerate much lol? 9 vs 7 is "almost double"? 
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On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard
there's this thing called an iterative beta, maybe you've heard of it?
there will be more patches, if zvp roach is a problem it will get addressed. good lord, you'd think the sky was falling
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Russian Federation1612 Posts
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United States24751 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard
Are you sure of this? Maybe they tested it out and realized the p will still be able to manage with this change in the other matchups. I'm not p so I can't say for sure but it will probably require more play testing.
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On March 13 2010 05:44 genwar wrote:
Just going to put in into perspective for, burrow nerfs, infestors nerfs and nydus nerfs, I never actually used any of these and still win majority of my games in plat.
Do none of your games make it to the midgame? Nydus is very, very useful... Also you must have never fought a thor-backed army if you don't think infestors are useful Even NP'ing a single thor can dramatically change a battle's outcome
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United States7166 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:44 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:43 Zelniq wrote:
infestor changes are weird, they die even faster (90 hp, 0 armor, but "Armored") have to be very close to cast neural parasite, cant cast on air but it doesnt expire. i dont think the expiration 'buff' is that important, 10 seconds was long enough. i guess now you can use it on scvs to build command centers easier now? lol
basically colossus with ranged upgrade almost doubles the range of infestor. also infestors die in 2 shots from colossus as well, and super fast to other units :/
pretty major nerfs Exaggerate much lol? 9 vs 7 is "almost double"?
er whoops i thought it was 5 now ..nvm :p
but yeah the range is still significantly shorter
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Wish they buffed Stalkers instead of nerfing warpgates like crazy.
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omfg
warp gate was needed. Dunno if this will fix the issue or just delay it though.
Burrow nerf whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy????
I can understand the nydus mouth delay, that thing spawned way too fast. Say you had ur units at ur nat on DO, and a nydus spawns in the back of ur main. Even if you see it drop down, you can't get there in time.
Yea hydras needed a little nerf imo.
I can understand some of the infestor nerfs ,but the life reduction? wtf they die so easily already. >.<
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Canada5565 Posts
woah...
so infestors can neural parasite a unit..forever?
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Nice to see the hydralisk nerf. Using infestors I'm still more worried about the instant interrupt from phoenix than I am about a range nerf.
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On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard
I don't think there's any simple way to fix warp gates for pvp without it having any effect on the other races, I'm also sure they did not just randomly choose to use this way to balance pvp strategies but they have good reasoning to use this one over the other ways of doing so.
Besides that its just the beta and they're allowed to fuck around if they feel its needed.
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On March 13 2010 05:47 BladeRunner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:44 genwar wrote:
Just going to put in into perspective for, burrow nerfs, infestors nerfs and nydus nerfs, I never actually used any of these and still win majority of my games in plat. Do none of your games make it to the midgame? Nydus is very, very useful... Also you must have never fought a thor-backed army if you don't think infestors are useful Even NP'ing a single thor can dramatically change a battle's outcome
Majority of my games end around the 3 base point15-20mins, I don't doubt the strength of these before this patch but it was never necessary for my games.
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On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard
Isn't 1 gate -> robo -> 2nd gate the typical counter to roach rush... just get that 1 immortal out really quick, ez pz?
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On March 13 2010 05:45 Jenia6109 wrote:
Finally Zerg Nerf
Funny sidenote: I am currently around rank 10 platinum without ever using infestors or nydus worms offensively (unless the game was 100% over). I don't even use burrow. So I only really care about the hydra nerf for now, and it doesn't seem very significant to me.
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Protoss change could make PvP actually worth playing.
As zerg I only am unhappy with the hydralisk nerf.
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Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers.
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On March 13 2010 05:50 spinesheath wrote:Funny sidenote: I am currently around rank 10 platinum without ever using infestors or nydus worms offensively (unless the game was 100% over). I don't even use burrow. So I only really care about the hydra nerf for now, and it doesn't seem very significant to me.
I don't see how you can't use infestors in ZvT, fungal is just too good here. Nydus, yea you don't need it. Burrow is really only used to block expos or in ZvZ. So yea the nerfs are not anything crazy.
What they really need to nerf is imbalords lol. Fucking clean up so many close games by just making a half a dozen of these.
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On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers.
Thinking like that will ensure that you remain in the copper/bronze league. I had some noob protoss partner that refused to make stalkers because "they suck" and he would get rolled in 2v2 every time because you simply can't underestimate the power of range.
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I like these changes .
I'm a protoss player and warp gate tech definitely needed an increase in research time.
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Good patch overall, though I really, really wish they'd get around to buffing Stalkers soon. Right now, they do less damage than an unupgraded Marine versus light...and cost more than twice as much. It's pretty ridiculous.
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On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers.
Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do half damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP.
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers. Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP.
8 Damage...?
They should do 10 damage barring armor.
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On March 13 2010 05:47 HazMat wrote:
Wish they buffed Stalkers instead of nerfing warpgates like crazy.
Agreed. I think the warpgate change was HUGE and maybe could've been a little lower, but with chrono boost it might be fine, I haven't tested it yet. And I don't see why they didn't add even +2 attack to stalkers. They do the least amount of damage in the protoss arsenal.
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I want the Queen to spwan 3 larvas only!
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On March 13 2010 05:50 spinesheath wrote:Funny sidenote: I am currently around rank 10 platinum without ever using infestors or nydus worms offensively (unless the game was 100% over). I don't even use burrow. So I only really care about the hydra nerf for now, and it doesn't seem very significant to me.
^Testament to how OP zerg is
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Really supprised no change to Brood lords. It has to be the most obvious imbalance out there right now.
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On March 13 2010 05:08 Zelniq wrote:
+ Burrowed Infestor move speed decreased from 1.5 to 1.
Does anyone know the upgraded burrowed speed of the infestor? This speed change doesn't affect the upgraded speed right?
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zerg nerfs make dave[9] sad
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On March 13 2010 05:28 PokePill wrote:
Can an infester infest an infester? And what happens if the infested infester already infested something (or even another infester).
lol
1 yes
2 probably cancels the first one's parasite
3 n/a
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On March 13 2010 05:35 genwar wrote:
As long as they don't touch my overlord speed upgrade I'm happy.
Man, I play Zerg and even I can admit that is a totally unfair upgrade.
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On March 13 2010 05:53 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:50 spinesheath wrote:On March 13 2010 05:45 Jenia6109 wrote:
Finally Zerg Nerf Funny sidenote: I am currently around rank 10 platinum without ever using infestors or nydus worms offensively (unless the game was 100% over). I don't even use burrow. So I only really care about the hydra nerf for now, and it doesn't seem very significant to me. I don't see how you can't use infestors in ZvT, fungal is just too good here. Nydus, yea you don't need it. Burrow is really only used to block expos or in ZvZ. So yea the nerfs are not anything crazy. What they really need to nerf is imbalords lol. Fucking clean up so many close games by just making a half a dozen of these.
Well, I guess I should use infestors, ya. I know they're good. But for some reason my games are pretty much decided before I would consider getting them.
I only get to Broodlords around the time I hit 200/200 ^^
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meh I wanted stalker buff but these are nice as well.
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Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo.
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Good, I hope this fixes the warpgate proxy crap.
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On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo.
Have you never heard of controlling variables? If they change a ton of things at once and something is off, it's almost impossible to tell which change caused things to go wrong because none of them were isolated.
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On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo.
Because they said like a million times that they want to let people get familiar first with sc2 (aka more then a month of play) before they start doing big changes.
Now they are just fixing big issues that you can't look around, for example PvP
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Really hope they patch it to EU servers asap..
^ Making drastic changes is an excellent way of making the game even more imbalanced.
They need to do small changes at a time to see what happens in order to get the perfect balance
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United States7166 Posts
edit: i just feel so dumb right now. forget it
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...burrow nerf... now only good for ZvZ. Everything else was warranted.
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Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP.
Actually, unless I'm mistaken, Dragoons do 10 damage to small units in SC1. But nevertheless I think its pretty evident that Stalkers are having trouble in SC2.
And, honestly, I don't think it would take that drastic of a change to make them worthwhile. Just a small damage increase (or possibly a cost decrease, or both) should do the trick. But right now they just seem kind of superfluous.
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On March 13 2010 06:00 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:53 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 13 2010 05:50 spinesheath wrote:On March 13 2010 05:45 Jenia6109 wrote:
Finally Zerg Nerf Funny sidenote: I am currently around rank 10 platinum without ever using infestors or nydus worms offensively (unless the game was 100% over). I don't even use burrow. So I only really care about the hydra nerf for now, and it doesn't seem very significant to me. I don't see how you can't use infestors in ZvT, fungal is just too good here. Nydus, yea you don't need it. Burrow is really only used to block expos or in ZvZ. So yea the nerfs are not anything crazy. What they really need to nerf is imbalords lol. Fucking clean up so many close games by just making a half a dozen of these. Well, I guess I should use infestors, ya. I know they're good. But for some reason my games are pretty much decided before I would consider getting them. I only get to Broodlords around the time I hit 200/200 ^^
start working them in earlier. Assuming you are going spling and bling for map control, get the corruptors and broodlords around 150 pop it's fucking brutal lol
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On March 13 2010 05:59 KhaosKreator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:35 genwar wrote:
As long as they don't touch my overlord speed upgrade I'm happy. Man, I play Zerg and even I can admit that is a totally unfair upgrade.
Well it is except that without scourge Zerg don't dominate the air anymore.
I play Terran and it is kinda hilarious how many kills you can get with a few Vikings. And you've got the Port for Medivacs anyway.
Great Patch by Blizzard xD
I'm still hoping they fix Mutalisks soon so I can go back to Zerg
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On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo.
It was announced at the beginning of the beta process that patches would introduce small changes.
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lol just logged on and didnt see any changes or downloads? Could it be they have not reached all servers with this patch up to now? Or did I just miss it? My borrow up still costs 50/50 tho
~confused~
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check the other replies, EU hasn't gotten the patch yet
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I'll just wait for the patch to play again dont want lame pvp again
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If you made one infestor and your opponent made 50. You could make a chain of 51 infestors and make a big zerg worm.
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On March 13 2010 06:04 FictionJV wrote:
check the other replies, EU hasn't gotten the patch yet
thanks didnt see it, despite reading the thread ^^
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Lots of infestor changes but no changes to infested terran? hmm..
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CharlieMurphy, have you ever seen stalkers in mid-late games? No. It's most of the time immortals. Marauders just eat Stalkers. This is SC2, not SC1. I cant think of any situation where stalkers would do good.. I dno. Thats how it looks like ATM.
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NO!
they are nerfing zerg! wtf!!!
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when will EU get the new patch? man i dont wanna ladder for pts until i get new patch, jesus tvp and tvz will be soooo much easier now
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imho much "omgawd we dunno what to do so just double some numbers" patch.
dont like that really.
also what was the problem with infestors and burrow?
they should focus on real problems (basic mechanics, zerg just massing 1-2 units etc) instead of throwing very weird changes out.
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Yay Hydra nerf! Maybe now marines will ACTUALLY counter hydras like the tooltip suggests =P. Nothing drastic but pretty fair I'd say. Don't have a good feel for how the warpgate increase will change things. It'll make a warpgate rush much less viable but at the same time it might open protoss up to rushes from the other races? Since the gateway production time is longer than the warpgate one..
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YESSS all the races got nerfed except mine lol.
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Finally the infestor HP nerf makes the HT viable for a matchup.Feedback and PSY storm soon on your screens zergs.
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So, wait, they took out Protoss MC's ability and DA, and instead gave it to zerg?
And warpgates are still imba, production time needs to be increased,
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On March 13 2010 05:56 Insane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers. Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP. 8 Damage...? They should do 10 damage barring armor.
yea I meant half sorry, but I'd still be right versus a unit with armor upgrade.
Stalkers probably need that minor buff to light units to be effective though. Mutas, zealots, etc are all light units. And mutas even have 120 hp now.
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I don't think they solved PvP at all, in fact, they probably made it worse. Before you had 2 option in PvP, warp gate zealot rush and all in zealots. Warp gate zealot rush had the option of teching since you have a core and gas. Now all you can do is all in zealots with no option of teching.
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On March 13 2010 06:02 Klive5ive wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:59 KhaosKreator wrote:On March 13 2010 05:35 genwar wrote:
As long as they don't touch my overlord speed upgrade I'm happy. Man, I play Zerg and even I can admit that is a totally unfair upgrade. Well it is except that without scourge Zerg don't dominate the air anymore. I play Terran and it is kinda hilarious how many kills you can get with a few Vikings. And you've got the Port for Medivacs anyway. Great Patch by Blizzard xD I'm still hoping they fix Mutalisks soon so I can go back to Zerg
That and bring back the lurker or some other tacktical unit or spellcaster .... While infestors are a fun unit all the other units are just mass in to A-move with minimal micro . bannelings and roaches with burrow don't seem interesting enough compared to terran and protoss's units who all have awesome abilitys . And on top of that they nerf the only interesting unit that the zerg has ....
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On March 13 2010 06:14 Chairman Ray wrote:
I don't think they solved PvP at all, in fact, they probably made it worse. Before you had 2 option in PvP, warp gate zealot rush and all in zealots. Warp gate zealot rush had the option of teching since you have a core and gas. Now all you can do is all in zealots with no option of teching.
i think it will be hard to predict, wait a few days and then well discuss it
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On March 13 2010 06:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:56 Insane wrote:On March 13 2010 05:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers. Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP. 8 Damage...? They should do 10 damage barring armor. yea I meant half sorry, but I'd still be right versus a unit with armor upgrade. Stalkers probably need that minor buff to light units to be effective though. Mutas, zealots, etc are all light units. And mutas even have 120 hp now.
And you were calling me dumb? Gj.
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finally..!! hellion scraped, thank you blizzard....
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* Fixed an issue with High graphics settings that could cause particles not to render.
Woot i can finally turn my grapihcs back on high, some reason smoke wasn't rendering so i had to mess with my settings.
also lol nerfed the zerg units i barely use
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On March 13 2010 06:06 _EmIL_ wrote:
CharlieMurphy, have you ever seen stalkers in mid-late games? No. It's most of the time immortals. Marauders just eat Stalkers. This is SC2, not SC1. I cant think of any situation where stalkers would do good.. I dno. Thats how it looks like ATM.
Theyre good vs reaper harass for one. Probably good for other things too. I dont have beta and even I know that...
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On March 13 2010 06:07 MorroW wrote:
when will EU get the new patch? man i dont wanna ladder for pts until i get new patch, jesus tvp and tvz will be soooo much easier now
Ok, your points could already qualify as "ownage". What happens now?
Keep up the good work 
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Overall a great patch, but I think having both an HP and range nerf on the Infestor is a bit excessive. I think just an HP nerf or at least a less severe range nerf would have been better. Good that you can't NP a mothership anymore though... that was ridiculous lol.
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I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES 
I want to cry...
I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP?
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I never realised burrow needed such a huge nerf.
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On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP?
They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches...
roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs
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so, the infestor NP is now perm? Or do you get your unit back once you kill it? Has anybody tested yet?
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
:'(
well least the warp gate time changed but that Hydra and burrow time change hurts the most IMO. No more timing roach burrow attacks :'(
I never Really relied on nydus' for wins so I don't Really care bout that. Least you can still poop more than one at a time...pretty much HAVE to do that now to get it to do any damage instead of sneaking a quick single one off somewhere.
This patch was unfortunately inevitable. I look forward to >8min pvp's now though lol. I think this patch in general just discourages short games which is a plus overall.
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For those of you complaining that the warp gate research time increase makes it much harder to pvt and pvz, I think this is a good change (I play toss in platinum).
PvT you needed warpgates to fend off a timing marauder/marine push before your collosus comes out after you scout them with an ob - but you still have imba force field - one unit which will have 2-3 forcefields, still buying you enough time to fend off the push before your collossus comes out. Warpgate needed at this point in the game? No. All other timing pushes, warp gate research would be done by then.
PvZ you could have used warpgate to pretty much instantly deny a lair-hatch natural expo with a 2-gate and 1 or 2 immortal push. Now it's nerfed, so zerg will have a chance at fending this off without major losses.
PvP the huge increase in warp gate research timing will allow u to get an immortal or two out, allowing each game to last more than 8 minutes.
tl;dr? Thanks Blizzard, this one nerf solved multiple problems at once, while not making it any worse for Protoss.
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On March 13 2010 06:25 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP? They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches... roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs
Not true at all...There is a roach timing push ZvP that I have trouble dealing with... basically if u 2gate port, GG. usually yes they do have burrow but not 100%... sometimes just enough roaches will do it
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On March 13 2010 06:26 Antimage wrote:
For those of you complaining that the warp gate research time increase makes it much harder to pvt and pvz, I think this is a good change (I play toss in platinum).
PvT you needed warpgates to fend off a timing marauder/marine push before your collosus comes out after you scout them with an ob - but you still have imba force field - one unit which will have 2-3 forcefields, still buying you enough time to fend off the push before your collossus comes out. Warpgate needed at this point in the game? No. All other timing pushes, warp gate research would be done by then.
PvZ you could have used warpgate to pretty much instantly deny a lair-hatch natural expo with a 2-gate and 1 or 2 immortal push. Now it's nerfed, so zerg will have a chance at fending this off without major losses.
PvP the huge increase in warp gate research timing will allow u to get an immortal or two out, allowing each game to last more than 8 minutes.
tl;dr? Thanks Blizzard, this one nerf solved multiple problems at once, while not making it any worse for Protoss.
lol you could argue that total opposite that the reason and say it was nerfed because 3 warp gate way too stong and so people played accordingly with their own timing pushes =p.
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On March 13 2010 06:28 TheComeback wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:25 Virtue wrote:On March 13 2010 06:23 TheComeback wrote:I like everything they did in this patch (as a protoss player) except one.. THEY HAVEN'T NERFED ROACHES I want to cry... I wonder if the warp gate nerf has fixed PvP? They uped the time and the cost of burrow i'd count that as a nerf to roaches... roaches are only powerful fin zvz in other MU they are only great early game as borrow comes fast usually before you have reliable scans or obs Not true at all...There is a roach timing push ZvP that I have trouble dealing with... basically if u 2gate port, GG. usually yes they do have burrow but not 100%... sometimes just enough roaches will do it
Then don't 2 gate or rely on 2 gating to take easy wins.
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Here are my thoughts on this patch (I play Zerg):
1) The warp gate fix I imagine is intended to fix PvP, I have no idea if this is enough but I hope it is for you guys. Seems like a somewhat bandaid fix; I've never felt like Warp Gates were imbalanced and needed to be higher up in the tech, but perhaps I'm wrong. I liked the "build a pylon by their pylon to make it useless" idea.
2) Nydus Worm being 20 seconds I don't see being feasable at all for assaulting any good player. I'm pretty sure with a build time that long even workers alone could kill it if it was visible when it was placed (and I don't think anyone doesn't have full view of their base by the time worms are available).
3) The neural parasite redesign, imo, is lame. It felt somewhat skillful and balanced being a limited cast from 9 range away -- air and faster ground units (or longer range) could still target them and kill them in a few (120 hp for a 100/150 unit) hits. Now the range is 7 and it lasts forever, but I can only see this being useful vs really mediocre players. At such close ranges and with the additional threat of it lasting forever, everyone will have a much easier time following the HEY FOCUS ME I'M OVER HERE (aka neural parasite line) to kill the now-90 HP Infestor. On the other hand, if somehow your ground army is so beefy they can't get past you, perhaps infestors will be cool. We'll see, I'll have to play games of course to find out. It not working on air is a bummer haha, I've had a lot of clutch parasites for free kills on harassing air units and battlecruisers. Fungal Growth is still good, and Infested Terran still sucks for anything but feeling like a pimp in 2v2 RT (or clutch AA in 1v1 I guess!) imo. I always avoided going mass mutas in PvT because I thought it was sort of a crutch strategy (it's beta so I don't 100% play to win) that would eventually be balanced with protoss AA buffs, but now if the new infestors don't protect me against colossus and immortals well enough I just may nub it up and mass em =p
Oh also burrow being doubled in cost and time bums me out but I think it's fair, I kind of abuse how fast I can get burrow for roaches. I suppose everyone does. I'm not sure if the gas/mineral cost needed to be doubled in addition to time, but maybe?
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Nydus nerf is ridiculous, time should either bet 15s or 20s with LOWERED cost - 200vespane with 20s spawn makes it completely useless as a drop mechanic. Fine for defense, but map specific.
Inferstor nerf is imho completetly terrible - the unit was dying like SHIT anyway, and now with lower range and 1/4 less hp it will vanish in seconds. Who the hell cares if control is permanent, 10s was more then enough anyway.
Burror nerf is fine imo, but should be focused on time only ( even longer, 120 would be ok, but cost should remain same ). Overdoing it again.
Hydra nerf is what I hate the most, as lings + fast hydra was only viable counter to early immortal/zael/sentry push by protoss.
But on another note, how the hell Immortals and Roaches were not touched, ROFL.
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And warp gate nerf pretty much should fix PvP and PvT early rushing. Seems fine, as costs stays the same.
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maybe we'll see more than just 3 warp gate builds against every race from US platinum ranked protoss now...
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 06:14 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:56 Insane wrote:On March 13 2010 05:55 CharlieMurphy wrote:On March 13 2010 05:50 _EmIL_ wrote:
Its more that Roaches are the problem, cant see why they havent got any nerf yet.
And Stalkers are such a disapointment.. 8 atk + 6?? what a joke.. Theres pretty much no point in making stalkers. Well if you weren't dumb you'd realize that dragoons do 8 damage to zeals, lings, marines etc in scbw. So it's nearly the same. Zeal shields are reduced as well. The biggest problem with them is their HP. 8 Damage...? They should do 10 damage barring armor. yea I meant half sorry, but I'd still be right versus a unit with armor upgrade. Stalkers probably need that minor buff to light units to be effective though. Mutas, zealots, etc are all light units. And mutas even have 120 hp now.
Mutalisks had 120 life in BW too....?
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On March 13 2010 06:31 Vei wrote:
Here are my thoughts on this patch (I play Zerg):
1) The warp gate fix I imagine is intended to fix PvP, I have no idea if this is enough but I hope it is for you guys. Seems like a somewhat bandaid fix; I've never felt like Warp Gates were imbalanced and needed to be higher up in the tech, but perhaps I'm wrong. I liked the "build a pylon by their pylon to make it useless" idea.
2) Nydus Worm being 20 seconds I don't see being feasable at all for assaulting any good player. I'm pretty sure with a build time that long even workers alone could kill it if it was visible when it was placed (and I don't think anyone doesn't have full view of their base by the time worms are available).
3) The neural parasite redesign, imo, is lame. It felt somewhat skillful and balanced being a limited cast from 9 range away -- air and faster ground units (or longer range) could still target them and kill them in a few (120 hp for a 100/150 unit) hits. Now the range is 7 and it lasts forever, but I can only see this being useful vs really mediocre players. At such close ranges and with the additional threat of it lasting forever, everyone will have a much easier time following the HEY FOCUS ME I'M OVER HERE (aka neural parasite line) to kill the now-90 HP Infestor. On the other hand, if somehow your ground army is so beefy they can't get past you, perhaps infestors will be cool. We'll see, I'll have to play games of course to find out. It not working on air is a bummer haha, I've had a lot of clutch parasites for free kills on harassing air units and battlecruisers. Fungal Growth is still good, and Infested Terran still sucks for anything but feeling like a pimp in 2v2 RT (or clutch AA in 1v1 I guess!) imo. I always avoided going mass mutas in PvT because I thought it was sort of a crutch strategy (it's beta so I don't 100% play to win) that would eventually be balanced with protoss AA buffs, but now if the new infestors don't protect me against colossus and immortals well enough I just may nub it up and mass em =p
Oh also burrow being doubled in cost and time bums me out but I think it's fair, I kind of abuse how fast I can get burrow for roaches. I suppose everyone does. I'm not sure if the gas/mineral cost needed to be doubled in addition to time, but maybe?
well i think the warp gate and the borrow was to change up the game play for pvp and zvz as both were pretty much do 1 build or die. relaying of fast burrow or fast warp gate to lay on the pressure.
as for the worm i think it's absolutely useless now you could already kill the worm with just workers just need to respond quick fuck it makes the worlds loudest noise when it starts now anyone that pays attention can kill it. I've done it plenty of times with just 1 rine and a few scv and more then enough times with just a bunch of scv
and it's not like the worm was free it's 100 mins and 100 gas that's painful to loose that mins to a wasted effort. And even if you are 1 sec late you could kill the worm before he transports alot of units as the nydus already unloaded pretty slow.
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On March 13 2010 06:32 trypt wrote:
maybe we'll see more than just 3 warp gate builds against every race from US platinum ranked protoss now...
true that lol. Although I never really cared about warp gate rushes since all you need to do is micro roaches on creep.
Burrow really should only have had a time nerf, i agree. The double cost is overdoing it.
Infestors actually with infinite time could pluck out a big unit from a retreating army and hang on to it in the back of your own zerg army. I see it playing a different role now. Imagine plucking up a raven and throwing HSM's all game from the back of your army....
Also, can you imagine stealing another race's worker and building your own other race army? When you're already really ahead of course.
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On March 13 2010 05:45 theqat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:42 -orb- wrote:
Wow so they nerfed the warp gate build time for pvp and didn't even think of the ramifications for pvt and pvz
good luck holding off a roach build with anything other than immortals now
thanks for making the game single-strat blizzzard there's this thing called an iterative beta, maybe you've heard of it? there will be more patches, if zvp roach is a problem it will get addressed. good lord, you'd think the sky was falling
It's not a problem in and of itself. You can hold it off with immortals.
The problem is that before you could make the choice to build a bunch of sentries OR to fast tech to immortals.
The reason sentries were able to hold off roaches was mainly because you could warp in your first sentry relatively quickly and block off your ramp. With increased warp gate tech time if you're unable to do this it could force protoss to fast tech to immortals versus a hard roach rush which basically makes the protoss easily counterable by a tech to mutas which will be impossible to hold off when you've been spamming immortals instead of a unit that can attack air
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Why do people talk about early rush games being totally fixed for pvp? So far even in the lower leagues I've faced the following three varieties:
1. Warp gates using a proxy pylon for zealots.
2. Proxy gateways churning out zealots.
3. Forge cannons galore.
If anything the 2nd type was even more awkward to deal with since it can hit about 1 minute earlier than the warp gates.
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On March 13 2010 06:21 Hammy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:07 MorroW wrote:
when will EU get the new patch? man i dont wanna ladder for pts until i get new patch, jesus tvp and tvz will be soooo much easier now Ok, your points could already qualify as "ownage". What happens now? Keep up the good work
he won't lose any more. terran bonjwa. gotta be really ownage to be the best european by far (on ladder) and now that patch ;D
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It is not inconcievable that they release a different patch on EU. They might want to try different things. I wonder how that would pan out.
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i like how pvp is fixed but i dont like how with the warp gates toss totally losees its aggression vs zerg/terran
before you could wall in ur base with toss and go fast cyber to either tech or 3 gate warp rush, it was especialyl good vs zerg cause at least u kept them guessing about ur tech path.
now as always its back to toss guessing what the zerg is doing
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On March 13 2010 06:46 edahl wrote:
It is not inconcievable that they release a different patch on EU. They might want to try different things. I wonder how that would pan out.
I wondered why they didn't do that to get a feel for what changes causes what effects section off US and EU servers for different patches they have enough players out there to derive trends.
might confuse people but it would help gain some insight to how people play
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infestor changes were not needed imo
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Infestor nerf=joke,i thought they will buff it
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yeah i don't know where that came out of, unless at high level plat games people are complaining about them imba infestors
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On March 13 2010 06:36 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:31 Vei wrote:
Here are my thoughts on this patch (I play Zerg):
1) The warp gate fix I imagine is intended to fix PvP, I have no idea if this is enough but I hope it is for you guys. Seems like a somewhat bandaid fix; I've never felt like Warp Gates were imbalanced and needed to be higher up in the tech, but perhaps I'm wrong. I liked the "build a pylon by their pylon to make it useless" idea.
2) Nydus Worm being 20 seconds I don't see being feasable at all for assaulting any good player. I'm pretty sure with a build time that long even workers alone could kill it if it was visible when it was placed (and I don't think anyone doesn't have full view of their base by the time worms are available).
3) The neural parasite redesign, imo, is lame. It felt somewhat skillful and balanced being a limited cast from 9 range away -- air and faster ground units (or longer range) could still target them and kill them in a few (120 hp for a 100/150 unit) hits. Now the range is 7 and it lasts forever, but I can only see this being useful vs really mediocre players. At such close ranges and with the additional threat of it lasting forever, everyone will have a much easier time following the HEY FOCUS ME I'M OVER HERE (aka neural parasite line) to kill the now-90 HP Infestor. On the other hand, if somehow your ground army is so beefy they can't get past you, perhaps infestors will be cool. We'll see, I'll have to play games of course to find out. It not working on air is a bummer haha, I've had a lot of clutch parasites for free kills on harassing air units and battlecruisers. Fungal Growth is still good, and Infested Terran still sucks for anything but feeling like a pimp in 2v2 RT (or clutch AA in 1v1 I guess!) imo. I always avoided going mass mutas in PvT because I thought it was sort of a crutch strategy (it's beta so I don't 100% play to win) that would eventually be balanced with protoss AA buffs, but now if the new infestors don't protect me against colossus and immortals well enough I just may nub it up and mass em =p
Oh also burrow being doubled in cost and time bums me out but I think it's fair, I kind of abuse how fast I can get burrow for roaches. I suppose everyone does. I'm not sure if the gas/mineral cost needed to be doubled in addition to time, but maybe? well i think the warp gate and the borrow was to change up the game play for pvp and zvz as both were pretty much do 1 build or die. relaying of fast burrow or fast warp gate to lay on the pressure. as for the worm i think it's absolution useless you could already kill the worm with just workers just need to respond quick now anyone that pays attention can kill it no effort.
Bullshit. Maybe @ Copper level where noob Zergs throw down in the mineral line, or by the SCVs. Personally, I thought the change needed to Nydus was to only allow it to build on creep....
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Changes look pretty good. gj blizz
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On March 13 2010 06:26 Antimage wrote:PvZ you could have used warpgate to pretty much instantly deny a lair-hatch natural expo with a 2-gate and 1 or 2 immortal push. Now it's nerfed, so zerg will have a chance at fending this off without major losses.
See, I disagree that this is a problem. I mean, lair + fast expo means you're even on tech and *way* ahead on econ - it seems totally reasonable to me that the P should be able to deny this opening. It's super greedy and should be counterable as such.
This isn't SCI anymore. Zerg doesn't get to be an expansion ahead all game - with queens, they're balanced to be about even on even bases. A zerg with 2 bases has econ and production rivaling a 3-base, 5-hatch build in SCI, which... you shouldn't be able to reliably get in the opening, particularly if you want lair tech. So the fact that P has a way to punish zergs that play such greedy openings... seems like a good thing, on the whole.
That said: the nerf doesn't actually delay the push very much - you wind up with, like, the same push 15 seconds later, or one less zealot at the same time. So it's still not a big deal - particularly with the burrow, hydra, and infestor nerfs making large Z ground armies easier to deal with. So it's not like I think the matchup is imbalanced now - it probably isn't. I just get annoyed listening to zergs that think they're entitled to some huge econ advantage in the opening and are annoyed when the big bad P keeps them from it.
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Why in the world are people complaining that there weren't massive changes made?
I actually have *some* faith in Bliz to balance SC2 after seeing how they are going about it in beta.
In WC3 they hardly ever patched and when they did they nerfed/buffed everything at once which resulted in a complete mess.
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I don't see why nydus should be good for offensive drops at all. It'll still be really strong for general mobility... isn't that enough?
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I really enjoyed PvP before the warp-in rush madness. This has me excited, both PvP and TvT look like they'll be awesome.
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On March 13 2010 06:01 zeppelin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo. Have you never heard of controlling variables? If they change a ton of things at once and something is off, it's almost impossible to tell which change caused things to go wrong because none of them were isolated.
Never head of such an obscure concept. Beta's gonna last another 3, maybe 4 months at the most. At this pace they're not going to get it done in time as they seem to believe their basic template is 'just fine'. It isn't.
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On March 13 2010 06:56 USn wrote:
I don't see why nydus should be good for offensive drops at all. It'll still be really strong for general mobility... isn't that enough?
Yeah I still don't understand why zergs pretend OL drop isnt in the game
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On March 13 2010 06:59 0neder wrote:
I really enjoyed PvP before the warp-in rush madness. This has me excited, both PvP and TvT look like they'll be awesome.
Yeah, definitely. There is a LOT of undiscovered ground in these match-ups. PvP I think will turn out an absolute beauty. I thought it was great in BW, and I'd be surprised to see this change like it almost sort-of did.
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:28 PokePill wrote:
Can an infester infest an infester? And what happens if the infested infester already infested something (or even another infester).
HAHAHAA
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Dominican Republic825 Posts
On March 13 2010 05:30 Louder wrote:
HALLEFUCKINGLUJAH THANK YOU BLIZZARD
GO RE MATCH VS RESPONSES XD
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On March 13 2010 07:00 floor exercise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:56 USn wrote:
I don't see why nydus should be good for offensive drops at all. It'll still be really strong for general mobility... isn't that enough? Yeah I still don't understand why zergs pretend OL drop isnt in the game
nydus isn't that great as a troop transport, it's fast but in sc1 it was better imo as it is now i rather have the old nydus as all i needed to do is right click the nydus to send all my units though instead of having to hot key the entrance and he exit i want and baby it.
I mean i can see myself using it and i have mid game to protect my earlier expos from harass and constantly sending my troops back to the front of his base for the contain. but late game when i want to move around 50 lings and ultralisk i can't see it being that useful with all those units.
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Fine with all the zerg changes except for the hard burrow nerf. That makes ZvZ A LOT more boring than they were anyway.. especially the first minutes. Attacking ain't viable at all anymore.
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God forbid games being longer than 10 minutes...
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On March 13 2010 07:04 Artrey wrote:Fine with all the zerg changes except for the hard burrow nerf. That makes ZvZ A LOT more boring than they were anyway.. especially the first minutes. Attacking ain't viable at all anymore.
I think making upgrades more of an investment is a good idea. In BW, they were never to be taken lightly, and in SC2 they are such a big deal that they easily move your units from tier 1.5->2, so they shouldn't be much easier there.
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United States1865 Posts
aughghghghghg
how the hell can you fight a colossus on any of these tight choke point blizzard maps with infestor range being so slow and so easily sniped
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On March 13 2010 07:10 Atrioc wrote:
aughghghghghg
how the hell can you fight a colossus on any of these tight choke point blizzard maps with infestor range being so slow and so easily sniped
use air units? >>
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On March 13 2010 07:00 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:01 zeppelin wrote:On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo. Have you never heard of controlling variables? If they change a ton of things at once and something is off, it's almost impossible to tell which change caused things to go wrong because none of them were isolated. Never head of such an obscure concept. Beta's gonna last another 3, maybe 4 months at the most. At this pace they're not going to get it done in time as they seem to believe their basic template is 'just fine'. It isn't.
The game is pretty balanced already i don't know what your talking about. And how do you know the beta will last 3 or 4 more months. The beta will last until the game is perfect balanced and they decide to release it.
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they should also nerf roaches %10-15
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On March 13 2010 06:50 Virtue wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:46 edahl wrote:
It is not inconcievable that they release a different patch on EU. They might want to try different things. I wonder how that would pan out. I wondered why they didn't do that to get a feel for what changes causes what effects section off US and EU servers for different patches they have enough players out there to derive trends. might confuse people but it would help gain some insight to how people play
Damn yeah that would be too confusing. Blizzard usually tries to keep stuff simple for the players^^
In principle, it would definitely be a great method to test two changes in real time (since they probably won't be taking back patch changes often).
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United States24751 Posts
On March 13 2010 07:00 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:01 zeppelin wrote:On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo. Have you never heard of controlling variables? If they change a ton of things at once and something is off, it's almost impossible to tell which change caused things to go wrong because none of them were isolated. Never head of such an obscure concept. Beta's gonna last another 3, maybe 4 months at the most. At this pace they're not going to get it done in time as they seem to believe their basic template is 'just fine'. It isn't.
Obscure concept? It's a basic scientific principle that you don't change too many things at once. The reason is, if you do, you won't know which of those changes is resulting in whatever is going wrong now. So, you change only one or a few things, identify which changes were good, and only after you are happy with it do you change more things.
In a true scientific experiment you only change one variable at a time.
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I think they intended on having the nydus be a defensive mechanic, there is a tech for overlord drop still that is better for aggressive moves. The nydus canal has always been more of a defensive move
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United States47024 Posts
On March 13 2010 07:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Never head of such an obscure concept. Beta's gonna last another 3, maybe 4 months at the most. At this pace they're not going to get it done in time as they seem to believe their basic template is 'just fine'. It isn't.
1) Beta will last as long as at needs to, period. 6+ months is totally reasonable for Blizzard if the results aren't satisfying.
2) What elements do you think need a sweeping overhaul? The only one I can really think of that's in any way drastic is Zerg unit diversity, and Browder has acknowledged this issue in interviews. Unit collision size being increased is a minor fix that can help improve visibility and ease those who keep whining about "auto-surround" (even though that's a gross misrepresentation of what it is), and high-ground advantage needs to be tweaked a little. Other than that, I can't see anything other than balance changes and implementation of B.net 2.0 features and netcode that need major fixing.
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they r basically saying that nydus should only be used as defense, not offense which i like. cause overlord drops r used for offense )
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Can you still infest Colossus? Technically they are considered a ground and air unit. Does that make them immune?
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On March 13 2010 05:47 BladeRunner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:44 genwar wrote:
Just going to put in into perspective for, burrow nerfs, infestors nerfs and nydus nerfs, I never actually used any of these and still win majority of my games in plat. Do none of your games make it to the midgame? Nydus is very, very useful... Also you must have never fought a thor-backed army if you don't think infestors are useful Even NP'ing a single thor can dramatically change a battle's outcome
Thus it should be a big thing to manage doing so. It should not be: "take 4 infestors and you will for sure get one of his Thors..." We will see how this plays out but probably Blizzard is aiming for it to require micro and tactial play to accomplish this feat and with it turning the battle!
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On March 13 2010 07:10 Atrioc wrote:
aughghghghghg
how the hell can you fight a colossus on any of these tight choke point blizzard maps with infestor range being so slow and so easily sniped
Maybe load the infestors into upgraded overlords, then you can drop them at will wherever needed (including on cliffs as the situation calls for it). Now that nydus is less appealing as an offensive drop maybe that upgrade for OL's will be more used.
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United States167 Posts
I was hoping for a buff to the stalker ... until this there is no reason to build one.
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On March 13 2010 07:19 DeCoup wrote:
Can you still infest Colossus? Technically they are considered a ground and air unit. Does that make them immune?
i doubt it wil lmake them immune. If they're immune, zerg ground army would have no chance vs collosus.
Does anyone know how the perma-parasite works now? Is it still a tongue graphic from the infestor? can the infestor move after casting? etc etc
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Wait a second.
U have 3 drop ships going to zerg base. Zerg knows because of scout or borrowed units. He sends 3 infestor to MC all 3 of ur drop ship. Since time is unlimited and u are likely to be inside zerg's base. That's going to hold ~10 supply unit for each un-upgraded ship. And forever?!?!
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read the patch notes better, you can't Np flying units anymore
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On March 13 2010 07:22 mmdmmd wrote:
Wait a second.
U have 3 drop ships going to zerg base. Zerg knows because of scout or borrowed units. He sends 3 infestor to MC all 3 of ur drop ship. Since time is unlimited and u are likely to be inside zerg's base. That's going to hold ~10 supply unit for each un-upgraded ship. And forever?!?!
cannot neural parasite air units, as described in patch notes.
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United States7166 Posts
On March 13 2010 07:22 mmdmmd wrote:
Wait a second.
U have 3 drop ships going to zerg base. Zerg knows because of scout or borrowed units. He sends 3 infestor to MC all 3 of ur drop ship. Since time is unlimited and u are likely to be inside zerg's base. That's going to hold ~10 supply unit for each un-upgraded ship. And forever?!?!
id rather make 2 scourge for 75 gas and instantly kill the dropship + marines. forever.
but yes it is no longer usable on air either so stop whining
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On March 13 2010 07:22 mmdmmd wrote:
Wait a second.
U have 3 drop ships going to zerg base. Zerg knows because of scout or borrowed units. He sends 3 infestor to MC all 3 of ur drop ship. Since time is unlimited and u are likely to be inside zerg's base. That's going to hold ~10 supply unit for each un-upgraded ship. And forever?!?!
No because it only works on ground...
On March 13 2010 07:15 _rdm_ wrote:
I think they intended on having the nydus be a defensive mechanic, there is a tech for overlord drop still that is better for aggressive moves. The nydus canal has always been more of a defensive move
Then why can you make it spawn outside of creep? :/
It was definitely intended for aggression as well, but maybe a bit too much. I think 20s is too much tbh, 15s looks like a good time, unless they reduce the price (Maybe 150mins but 0-50 gas?) and/or remove that ridiculus scream when it pops.
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On March 13 2010 07:26 Hammy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 07:22 mmdmmd wrote:
Wait a second.
U have 3 drop ships going to zerg base. Zerg knows because of scout or borrowed units. He sends 3 infestor to MC all 3 of ur drop ship. Since time is unlimited and u are likely to be inside zerg's base. That's going to hold ~10 supply unit for each un-upgraded ship. And forever?!?! No because it only works on ground... Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 07:15 _rdm_ wrote:
I think they intended on having the nydus be a defensive mechanic, there is a tech for overlord drop still that is better for aggressive moves. The nydus canal has always been more of a defensive move Then why can you make it spawn outside of creep? :/ It was definitely intended for aggression as well, but maybe a bit too much. I think 20s is too much tbh, 15s looks like a good time, unless they reduce the price (Maybe 150mins but 0-50 gas?) and/or remove that ridiculus scream when it pops.
Make two versions of an exit?
15 second that costs less, but screams when it pops
20 second that costs more, but is silent when it pops
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On March 13 2010 07:20 rtano wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:47 BladeRunner wrote:On March 13 2010 05:44 genwar wrote:
Just going to put in into perspective for, burrow nerfs, infestors nerfs and nydus nerfs, I never actually used any of these and still win majority of my games in plat. Do none of your games make it to the midgame? Nydus is very, very useful... Also you must have never fought a thor-backed army if you don't think infestors are useful Even NP'ing a single thor can dramatically change a battle's outcome Thus it should be a big thing to manage doing so. It should not be: "take 4 infestors and you will for sure get one of his Thors..." We will see how this plays out but probably Blizzard is aiming for it to require micro and tactial play to accomplish this feat and with it turning the battle!
It would be a significant investment to get 4 infestors, no?
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omg so many change thanks Zelniq for this. finaly we are close to the balance for the zerg :D
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On March 13 2010 07:00 HalfAmazing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:01 zeppelin wrote:On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo. Have you never heard of controlling variables? If they change a ton of things at once and something is off, it's almost impossible to tell which change caused things to go wrong because none of them were isolated. Never head of such an obscure concept. Beta's gonna last another 3, maybe 4 months at the most. At this pace they're not going to get it done in time as they seem to believe their basic template is 'just fine'. It isn't.
Have you really never taken any science- or statistics-related class in your life, or is your first sentence just a joke that I'm not getting?
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They finally decided to nerf Zerg, yet none of those nerfs are on roaches. I'm kinda surprised but not complaining lol
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On March 13 2010 06:00 HalfAmazing wrote:
Blizzard does not inspire me with confidence with these changes. Sure it's all a step in the right direction, but not drastic enough, imo.
If you ever played flight simulator, you'd be familiar with how things spiral out of control when you turn too many knobs too much at once.
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Was looking for a reason to switch from Random to Terran full time and now seems like a good point.
Was kind of hoping for some stalker love, either HP increase, +dmg to light or make blink a base spell.
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Hrm warp gate timing such a crucial part of PvZ.
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Huge infestor nerf really necessary?
Yes they can permanently mind control stuff.. it doesn't make much difference, you could just chain mind control stuff last patch anyways.
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On March 13 2010 07:45 Whalecore wrote:
Huge infestor nerf really necessary?.
yes
they were super imba
in tvz they make like 5 infestor later and u couldnt do shit lol
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I approve of the gateway nerf, but now PvZ seems much more difficult. I think they probably already have plans for roaches and zerg in general, but are waiting to find the most appropriate change to not completely fuck up the other matchups.
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On March 13 2010 07:02 Re-Play- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 05:28 PokePill wrote:
Can an infester infest an infester? And what happens if the infested infester already infested something (or even another infester). HAHAHAA
Also, I wonder if one of your units get infested, can you re-infest it to get it back?
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Neural parasite is permanent now - but still CHANNELED, right?! I mean if you kill the infestor de MC goes away, right? Does it abide its previous rule or not?
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United States7166 Posts
yes Benny it ends as soon as infestor dies. 100/150/2 cost unit with same HP/armor as hydralisk (90/0). with Armored quality so dies extra fast to +armored units
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can the infestor move after it casts NP? is the tongue graphic still there? If it is, is there a maximum range that the NP'd unit can move away from the infestor?
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The infestor changes seems alright, it was a very powerful caster before and still is imo. Hydra nerf seems a bit low actually and yeah maybe something needs to be done on the roaches but i suspect that stalkers will be buffed in a later patch and be able to counter them better, at least hold them off.
I'm not sure I like the burrow nerf, I might agree that they overdid that one.
I play Z
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United States4991 Posts
On March 13 2010 08:13 TSL-Lore wrote:
can the infestor move after it casts NP? is the tongue graphic still there? If it is, is there a maximum range that the NP'd unit can move away from the infestor?
Can't move, and there is a max range. People talking about permanently NP-ing Thors to accompany them or something (I saw someone talking about keeping some in the back of your army as Zerg now...) are in dreamland 
I haven't had a chance to play after the Hydra change, but it's good to see Hydras nerfed a bit, as there was like no way to play ZvP without them. A bit of additional options is good
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United States7166 Posts
hydra attack speed nerf was noticeable. before it was pretty damn fast, now it's just slightly faster than BW hydras it feels like
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i really wish they should revert hydras to 1 food and make them weaker, but move faster =[
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I thought Warpgates would be moved to the Templar Archives....but I guess a research time increase is basically the same thing. Zerg got hit pretty hard in this patch...nydus worms are going to be much harder to pull off.
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I really don't understand the huge hp nerf, and range nerf to the infestor. they've identified that zerg unit diversity is a problem, and they make a patch discouraging use from one of their more interesting units ? uhg
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United States7166 Posts
yessss exactly what i've been wanting as well, Lore
ideally they should be hatch tech, cheaper, but weaker, and move faster (after upgrade)
right now hydras are so slow it's just a little unit positioning is the most micro you can do (and focus fire)
i really prefer the speedier hydras that were so versatile
and roach should be lair tech to match with the tech. i suggest much more expensive (like 100/100/2 or 100/125/2) same stats but with new ability to attack while burrowed. as of now zerg is the only race w/o a unit that can attack while invis, which is pretty significant to me. also make dark templars/high templars from same templar archives imo, remove dark shrine
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European Beta is now finally patching!
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"Breaking news! We will be releasing a service update soon..." - appears on login screen.
Wut? :o
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Isn't it intended for the zerg players to use tumours+overlords to ensure creep coverage and faster movement? I mean do the hydras still feel painfully slow when on creep also or is that the kind of speed you're hoping for anyway 100% of the time?
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cool change to the infestor... it's supossed to be used as a backup unit, not a frontline unit.
used smartly can still do a hell-a-lot of damage.
go terran go!
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System shutdown in EU atm. guess the patch is comming
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EU servers just went offline, guess the patch is coming up.
Edit: heh, beaten to it.
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On March 13 2010 05:24 Zurles wrote:
remove banelings and put in lurkers, nerf roaches and marauders slightly, buff stalkers slightly, buff terran factory units, improve phoenixes a bit and make collusi harder to get out so fast.
and gg!
I think I'm in love with you.
edit: serious, call me.
=P
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Anyone else think t is currently strongest race? Buff the mother fucking stalkers!!
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anybody has eta on online again? what was is last time? :D
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On March 13 2010 08:42 lgn! wrote:
fail patch is fail
What do you disagree with?
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On March 13 2010 07:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Hrm warp gate timing such a crucial part of PvZ.
in all honesty i was tired of getting nothing but 4 warpgate rushed or be at the receiving end of some warpgate / tech unit timing push out of 1 base. Maybe it will force some new thinking from the protoss, maybe it will just lead to pure rape zvp, but right now the matchup wasnt really that fun imo
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Warp gate nerf was needed, and I say that as a Protoss player. But I have to wonder how much thought Blizzard put into this nerf. I mean 133% research time increase? Really? That's a helluva lot of time.
I guess we'll just have to play BETA and see for ourselves.
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On March 13 2010 06:14 Chairman Ray wrote:
I don't think they solved PvP at all, in fact, they probably made it worse. Before you had 2 option in PvP, warp gate zealot rush and all in zealots. Warp gate zealot rush had the option of teching since you have a core and gas. Now all you can do is all in zealots with no option of teching.
A pure zealot rush can be blocked with a decent P wall-in so that there is just room for 1 zeal to pop through. That way 2 zeals + can hold off 4+ zeals for long enough so that your ranged units which should be building can finish.
I'm sure if you try to pure zealot rush most of the top ranked protoss players it would not be effective.
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Did anyone get invites like last patch? Constantly F5'ing my 2 battle.net accounts with no luck =[
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I was under the impression the infestor was under-used. If so then why did they pretty much nerf it(other then neural parasite lasting forever)?
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On March 13 2010 09:02 killanator wrote:
I was under the impression the infestor was under-used. If so then why did they pretty much nerf it(other then neural parasite lasting forever)?
Because in the right hands it was completely imba.
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On March 13 2010 08:39 Senx wrote:
"Breaking news! We will be releasing a service update soon..." - appears on login screen.
Wut? :o
you get this news after the patch ?
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On March 13 2010 09:06 KhAlleB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 08:39 Senx wrote:
"Breaking news! We will be releasing a service update soon..." - appears on login screen.
Wut? :o you get this news after the patch ?
If you took the time to read the thread you would know that the EU server got the patch several hours after the NA server.
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Awesome patch , hope the warpgate thingy fixes pvp
and I love the neural parasite change ,and the burrow changes :D
As a Terran this is my lucky day
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United States7166 Posts
burrow "changes"
straight up nerf, no other way to look at it
and kind of unwarranted imo..why did Burrow need to be nerfed this way? it was lair tech already and not overpowered or anything
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These changes are nice and all, but when is Blizzard going to fix that stupid "i wanna retreat my stuff but my units still wanna fight" bug?
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WOW............ Terran just got powered up so much! Good thing i've been playing as one but at least zerg finally gets nerfed a bit.
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Anybody else experienced a huge FPS drop after the patch?
It's going smooth in the beginning of the game but as soon as a bunch of enemy units appear on my screen I am stuck with 1 fps and i can't do a thing !
It happened twice in a row just after the patch in 2v2 games.
I'd be glad if anybody had the same problem and found a solution
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On March 13 2010 06:06 _EmIL_ wrote:
CharlieMurphy, have you ever seen stalkers in mid-late games? No. It's most of the time immortals. Marauders just eat Stalkers. This is SC2, not SC1. I cant think of any situation where stalkers would do good.. I dno. Thats how it looks like ATM.
i play zerg obviously.
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it was fun neural parasiting a viking and bringing it down to the ground so I could kill it with lings
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great patch. does anyone know why i can't download maps? I'm unable to join any game because i dont have the maps but when i try to download them it says it failed. any advice?
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hydras were the one unit that wasnt overpowered zvp and infestors were strong but relatively easy to deal with
how do you nerf z and not address either roach or muta ling
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On March 13 2010 08:51 Ryuu314 wrote:
Warp gate nerf was needed, and I say that as a Protoss player. But I have to wonder how much thought Blizzard put into this nerf. I mean 133% research time increase? Really? That's a helluva lot of time.
I guess we'll just have to play BETA and see for ourselves.
ye and stimpack is 150
what do you say for that
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lol it was fun, me and my partner were doing the 10 qualifier matches for the 2v2
in the first 5 game warp gate fest.. second five games no warp gates lol.
Also the qualifier run included a match where we needed like 2 seconds to eliminate the opponent but the server shut down because of the patching so it didn't count.
we went 8-2 into platinum
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LAWL so i cant go 1 gate robo now without getting units :O
i think its time to change race back to Terran this PvZ getting wrse and worse every Patch...
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Cybernetics Core
Warp Gate research time increased from 60 seconds to 140 seconds.
Nydus Network
Nydus Worm build time increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
---
Good Lord, it's about time.
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On March 13 2010 09:25 Mastermind wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 09:06 KhAlleB wrote:On March 13 2010 08:39 Senx wrote:
"Breaking news! We will be releasing a service update soon..." - appears on login screen.
Wut? :o you get this news after the patch ? If you took the time to read the thread you would know that the EU server got the patch several hours after the NA server.
yes but i dont know if he is EU or NA
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On March 13 2010 09:59 IdrA wrote:
hydras were the one unit that wasnt overpowered zvp and infestors were strong but relatively easy to deal with
how do you nerf z and not address either roach or muta ling
mid game muta ling or roach ling is super effective needs a tweak here and there. but late game imo falls apart.
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LOL, blizzard gonna nerf Zerg and Protoss until the game is balance.
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If the warpgate time increase is Blizzards attempt to fix PvP - it's a shitty attempt.
I dunno who posted it originally, but all they'd need to do, is make warp-in time based on distance to the nearest nexus, eg 15 second warp in if you're way away from your main nexus, but the normal 5 seconds if you're warping in near your base. Doesn't effect Protoss defence, and it stabilises mid/late whilst kicking this bullshit "LOL WHO CAN MICRO/MACRO 3 PROXY WARP GATEZ BEST LOL" shit in the pants.
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Hm... seems Zergs casters are the worst again. Terrans can snipe and HSM your infestors, Toss can feedback them...you can't just snipe the enemy casters as Zerg, so i guess you have to get mutas again. Mindcontrolling the enemy casters seems not viable any more because of the range decrease, meaning that your infestors will be dead before you are in range of the enemy casters (who are in the back of the enemy army). Only way to get to the enemy casters is burrow, which is also nerfed and requires micro AND the enemy can always just turn around and kick your infestors.
I don't want to predict anything imbalanced or unfair but the infestorchanges make fungal growth the only option for standardplay imo. Infested Terrans are nice to have but I'd never get Infestors for that spell. Neural parasite will have a hard time now... i guess it'll only work against retarded players i.e. those who pay no attention to battles, pretty much comparable to Banshee-use in WC3.
PS: Gotta love to parasite enemy workers though!
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Step in the right direction.
PvP seems alot less ridiculous.
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Ok, i looked through most of this thread and reasonably sure this hasn't been asked but:
Do infestors still have the line going from them to the host?
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On March 13 2010 13:15 Apexplayer wrote:
Ok, i looked through most of this thread and reasonably sure this hasn't been asked but:
Do infestors still have the line going from them to the host?
Yes, they have.
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The Infestor change was very disappointing. More time was needed to see it was really Imbalanced at lower levels of play.
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Anyone noticed how the versions don't make any sense atleast not for me. If this is 0.7 and the previous one was 0.6 that means that we have 3 patches till 1.0. Doesn't a 1.0 Version stand for something thats completed as a release version or something ?
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On March 13 2010 13:20 Ziph wrote:
Anyone noticed how the versions don't make any sense atleast not for me. If this is 0.7 and the previous one was 0.6 that means that we have 3 patches till 1.0. Doesn't a 1.0 Version stand for something thats completed as a release version or something ?
Actually.. They way version codes work in software developement is not how the decimal system works. The decimal point is meant only as a separator and not a decimal.
so it goes.. 0.7 - 0.8 - 0.9 - 0.10 - 0.11 and so on ...
notice too, that 0.1 and 0.10 are indeed different
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On March 13 2010 13:23 B00ts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 13:20 Ziph wrote:
Anyone noticed how the versions don't make any sense atleast not for me. If this is 0.7 and the previous one was 0.6 that means that we have 3 patches till 1.0. Doesn't a 1.0 Version stand for something thats completed as a release version or something ? Actually.. They way version codes work in software developement is not how the decimal system works. The decimal point is meant only as a separator and not a decimal. so it goes.. 0.7 - 0.8 - 0.9 - 0.10 - 0.11 and so on ... notice too, that 0.1 and 0.10 are indeed different
Ah alright thanks for clearing that up never knew.
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Mostly needed changes, but not the ones I was expecting.
Warp gate research taking 2 minutes will make the core upgrades even less used. You know, since warp gates haven't actually changed from being absolutely necessary.
Zerg changes... well, the nydus nerf was needed, but I'd have preferred to see some changes to roaches and banelings before burrow and infestors.
And for those of you talking about Terran, Terran doesn't need other races nerfed, it needs a more fluid way to deal with both it's economy and scouting.
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another patch, another toss nerf, how expected. not a horrible nerf this time probably a needed one for once, but when are they going to do something, ANYTHING, so the stalker?
yes, finally a hydra nerf.
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PvP isnt as ridiculous but I feel the research time is a little bit too long..
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The warpgate nerf seems to have had some big effects on PvT timing, I'm just steamrolling toss with my first ghost push every game now
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On March 13 2010 13:26 QibingZero wrote:
Mostly needed changes, but not the ones I was expecting.
Warp gate research taking 2 minutes will make the core upgrades even less used. You know, since warp gates haven't actually changed from being absolutely necessary.
Zerg changes... well, the nydus nerf was needed, but I'd have preferred to see some changes to roaches and banelings before burrow and infestors.
And for those of you talking about Terran, Terran doesn't need other races nerfed, it needs a more fluid way to deal with both it's economy and scouting.
Basically everything I agree with. I like warpgates.. but it seems a bit "this isn't a decision... you NEED to do this" type of thing. I don't think any race (beyond its macro mechanic) should have any must have techs.. there should always be a choice.
Also...No stalker love.. what gives?..lol
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On March 13 2010 16:15 Irrelevant wrote:
The warpgate nerf seems to have had some big effects on PvT timing, I'm just steamrolling toss with my first ghost push every game now
Yes, I'm getting steamrolled by terrans every game now
BBS with all scvs rush is unstoppable too
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On March 13 2010 16:30 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 16:15 Irrelevant wrote:
The warpgate nerf seems to have had some big effects on PvT timing, I'm just steamrolling toss with my first ghost push every game now Yes, I'm getting steamrolled by terrans every game now BBS with all scvs rush is unstoppable too
So you're getting rolled by all ins.
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On March 13 2010 16:27 B00ts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 13:26 QibingZero wrote:
Mostly needed changes, but not the ones I was expecting.
Warp gate research taking 2 minutes will make the core upgrades even less used. You know, since warp gates haven't actually changed from being absolutely necessary.
Zerg changes... well, the nydus nerf was needed, but I'd have preferred to see some changes to roaches and banelings before burrow and infestors.
And for those of you talking about Terran, Terran doesn't need other races nerfed, it needs a more fluid way to deal with both it's economy and scouting. Basically everything I agree with. I like warpgates.. but it seems a bit "this isn't a decision... you NEED to do this" type of thing. I don't think any race (beyond its macro mechanic) should have any must have techs.. there should always be a choice. Also...No stalker love.. what gives?..lol
Yeah, one of the worst things about starcraft were upgrades like goon range, stim, lurkers, siege tank, mines, high templars.
I don't think its really bad to have a must have tech - I just think it needs to be implemented in a logical, balanced manner.
Its going to take time to figure out exactly how to do that.
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Can someone explain to me why infestors needed the nerf? What particular situations did it grant Blizzard to say "wow, this is OP, nerf them"? I'm not very experienced with infestors besides just knowing what their abilities are.
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am i the only one who wants a banshee nerf asap? i nearly allways lose to them as Toss (ofc in a combination with vikings/rines)
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On March 13 2010 18:14 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Can someone explain to me why infestors needed the nerf? What particular situations did it grant Blizzard to say "wow, this is OP, nerf them"? I'm not very experienced with infestors besides just knowing what their abilities are.
i am not pro, but i think cannot target air protects medivac, overlords, motherships and BCs.
i saw it in stream, using infestor to grab phoenix to prevent hit and run then kill it with hydras was fucking brilliant. Too bad its removed now.
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On March 13 2010 18:14 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
Can someone explain to me why infestors needed the nerf? What particular situations did it grant Blizzard to say "wow, this is OP, nerf them"? I'm not very experienced with infestors besides just knowing what their abilities are.
because in hydra roach infestor vs MMM zergs won so ridiculously big cause the range of their growth spell was totally insane, that spell is even stronger than storm in pvt against a bio army and the hp of the infestors didnt allow HSM snipe them like irrodate did with defilers.
u cant put ur gas into investing ghosts in tvz to emp or snipe, u need the gas for other stuff
im sure there r reasons why it was imba pvz too
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next patch nerf stim pack please, it is ridiculous op in marauders imo.
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Boost stalkers!! Compare Stalkers to Marauders in a big fight lol
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On March 13 2010 19:17 _EmIL_ wrote:
Boost stalkers!! Compare Stalkers to Marauders in a big fight lol
well, i compared.
15 stalkers vs 5 mutas = stalkers win
15 marauders vs 1 muta = muta wins
pathetic.
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On March 13 2010 19:45 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 19:17 _EmIL_ wrote:
Boost stalkers!! Compare Stalkers to Marauders in a big fight lol well, i compared. 15 stalkers vs 5 mutas = stalkers win 15 marauders vs 1 muta = muta wins pathetic.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
stalkers still need buff though
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Bug Fixes
* Fixed an issue with Zerg owning so hard.
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You can cast neural parasite on scvs and probes, and make them build. So if you find a lone worker on the field, you can control it and build a terran or protoss base. You don't get extra supply, though. If you build with other races you can just use overlords to increase your terran/protoss supply.
Also, you can't put parasited units in transport (overlord/nydus), so quickly stealing a worker from a mineral line and escaping won't work.
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THIS IS INSANE! HOW DA HELL P CAN STOP ROACH RUSH NOW?
and vs T too ? i lost every damn game vs T,Z after that patch.
0.7. is made P unplayable
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User was warned for this post
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PvZ I go Immortals?
9 Pylon
12 Gate
13 Gas
Core when gate finishes
Robo fac when core finishes
Make zeals and probes in the meantime
This get immortals pretty fast. I have no trouble with early roach. Most of the time its troubling to nicely transition to something else when the zerg goes muta after roach. But then again this works for me in Silver dunno for higher ups ^^
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On March 13 2010 19:45 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 19:17 _EmIL_ wrote:
Boost stalkers!! Compare Stalkers to Marauders in a big fight lol well, i compared. 15 stalkers vs 5 mutas = stalkers win 15 marauders vs 1 muta = muta wins pathetic.
What a pathetic post. Cant you come with anything good to say?
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I thought it was a mildly humorous way of saying that stalkers are an early game anti-air unit for a race otherwise lacking it, while marauders are a ground to ground normal combat unit. They fulfill different roles and cannot be directly compared to each other.
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If you see it that way, then yes. But against massive ground forces, such as roach spam there is no early unit to compete vs that it feels like. Is this correct or wrong?
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LoL when i patch it says patch 4 and not 5 I
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Anyone else got huge random lagspikes after this patch? my game was running smooth just before the patch.
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Very good patch, those p rushes were abit too much.
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I suppose they don't properly count as rushes anymore, but the pvp play is still very much zealot-based and instead of hitting at 4:15-4:20 it either hits a minute earlier in the form of 2 proxy gateways or the extra 80 seconds is used to mass up zealots which then attack right when they can warp in a new batch at a pylon that is typically right outside your ramp so they can warp in behind any attempt to wall-in with buildings.
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On March 13 2010 22:41 mcJ wrote:
Anyone else got huge random lagspikes after this patch? my game was running smooth just before the patch.
big time. I thought it was my shitty connection crapping out. I even got booted a couple of times.
Being a terran player, I'm pretty happy with this patch.
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Stalkers are pathetic..
To illustrate it takes a stalker 5 hits (6.3 sec) to kill a single zergling..
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On March 13 2010 22:41 mcJ wrote:
Anyone else got huge random lagspikes after this patch? my game was running smooth just before the patch.
lol? I'm the same, didn't think it was cuz of the patch but now that you mention it...
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the AMM is taking forever if its that what u mean? man takes over 2 minutes for me to find game and yesterday it usually under 2 min
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On March 13 2010 22:56 MorroW wrote:
the AMM is taking forever if its that what u mean? man takes over 2 minutes for me to find game and yesterday it usually under 2 min
what's your rating? if you are already on 2500 it might be hard for it to find a decent opponent for you lol
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On March 13 2010 23:03 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 22:56 MorroW wrote:
the AMM is taking forever if its that what u mean? man takes over 2 minutes for me to find game and yesterday it usually under 2 min what's your rating? if you are already on 2500 it might be hard for it to find a decent opponent for you lol
im same pts as i was before the patch, maybe its just a coincidence. i have 2400ish pts
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great patch overall. I'm a bit surprised they nerfed the infestor HP, since he was pretty easy to kill anyways, but I like the other changes on it.
warp-gates change is a solid one and hopefully will fix the 3 warpgates pylon into enemy base rushes.
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The warp-gate change has made PvZ significantly harder. There's a whole time-span in which the Zerg can expect less units now. I don't think the matchup was imbalanced before, nor do I think we can say it is imbalance now, but whatever the balance is/was it's shifted towards Zerg with this change.
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Damn this patch messed up my game. It now constantly chops the game while playing. I see a lot of other users are affected by this. Some person reported problems with Win7 and Shaders. Dunno if the rest of you having theese troubles have Win7?
Anyway, the balance changes were good.
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Zerg will continued to get nerfed, not too worried about it since the race is fairly out of proportion from early to late game.
Terrans mech will get a boost and Protoss will hopefully get its stalkers slightly boosted.
I just hope Blizzard adresses some auto-attack issues and the high ground mechanic before this beta is over, the actual game balance will be very good in the end.
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My game chops too with the new patch
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I.E. Nerf Protoss and Zerg so maybe Terrans can have a 50% win ratio.
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On March 14 2010 00:53 Man.Magic wrote:
I.E. Nerf Protoss and Zerg so maybe Terrans can have a 50% win ratio.
Source on win ratio?
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On March 14 2010 01:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 00:53 Man.Magic wrote:
I.E. Nerf Protoss and Zerg so maybe Terrans can have a 50% win ratio. Source on win ratio?
blizzard guys talked about the win ratio in some text interview. both tvz and tvp had negative ratio for t
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On March 14 2010 01:05 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 01:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On March 14 2010 00:53 Man.Magic wrote:
I.E. Nerf Protoss and Zerg so maybe Terrans can have a 50% win ratio. Source on win ratio? blizzard guys talked about the win ratio in some text interview. both tvz and tvp had negative ratio for t
yes but this was like 3 patches ago
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If you have a link where they state this for the previous patch it'd be appreciated.
edit: see guy above I suppose
bottom line: don't pull stats out of your ass it's ruining any discussion. quote sources or stfu.
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On March 14 2010 01:05 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 01:04 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On March 14 2010 00:53 Man.Magic wrote:
I.E. Nerf Protoss and Zerg so maybe Terrans can have a 50% win ratio. Source on win ratio? blizzard guys talked about the win ratio in some text interview. both tvz and tvp had negative ratio for t
he also said all matchups were pretty close to 50/50... The Blizzard guy was Dustin Browder btw. The full interview can be found here
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On March 14 2010 01:22 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
If you have a link where they state this for the previous patch it'd be appreciated.
edit: see guy above I suppose
bottom line: don't pull stats out of your ass it's ruining any discussion. quote sources or stfu.
(I'm just passing on information, the following is not my opinion)
From yesterday's QA
Q. What race are the developers least happy about as far as balance goes? Who needs the most work or a major change?
A. Terrans are currently losing more games than they are winning at gold and platinum skill levels. We are going to be looking to address some of these issues in future patches.
source:
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23767157319&sid=3000
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Ever since the patch, I've been getting Marine all in from Terran like every other game. I liked it actually, 1 single cannon 2 zealot and 2 sentry is enough to stop the all in unless it's blistering sand. In that case it a bit more of a pain in the ass.
I think the biggest problem is that people still play with the 60 seconds warp tech and haven't really adapt to the 3 minute warp tech. Just make a couple more unit with the regular gateway before you can warp switch it to warpgate.
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I can't wait until strategies have evolved after the warp-in nerf, instead of protosses complaining that the status quo doesn't work anymore.
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On March 14 2010 02:22 Yamoth wrote:
Ever since the patch, I've been getting Marine all in from Terran like every other game. I liked it actually, 1 single cannon 2 zealot and 2 sentry is enough to stop the all in unless it's blistering sand. In that case it a bit more of a pain in the ass.
I think the biggest problem is that people still play with the 60 seconds warp tech and haven't really adapt to the 3 minute warp tech. Just make a couple more unit with the regular gateway before you can warp switch it to warpgate.
Not only you. But I play Zerg..
I played against 6 Terrans today @ 1650 Gold rating.
ALL but one did not scout at all anymore!
The first four just went Marine + few Marauders all-in before medivacs. The fifth did Banshees. The last went for a VERY early 10 Marines 10 SCV Rush.
Because of the burrow fuckup, there is no way to get banelings burrowed by then anymore. So it is Zerglings and/or Roaches, while you need anti air to be safe against banshees too (hard to scout at that timing window, hu?).
Really a tough matchup like that.. wtf Oo
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So I waited till I played 30 or so games with this patch before sayign anything... but really.. that Terran marine all in crap is rediculous...
And now.. without warp tech as fast as it was.. I cant keep up with zerg unit production.. even with them expanding and throwing down 300 minerals on a second hatch. (Im not talking about zerg on two base and me(P) on one.. im talkin, before and as the second hatch builds. So even if I do hold off the roach rush, which when I prepare for is easy enough... I get rolled a few minutes later once their second base gets going.
I can't put my finger on what would fix it and not sway things in P's favor too much though... the only thing I can think of is a slight nerf to the queen.. but even that may be too much. Nonetheless, IMO, P really has no answer to the Marine rush (90% of my terran opponents do it now), and no answer to zerg, at all.
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would the game crash if an infester infested an infester and the other infester infested at the same time also?
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On March 14 2010 08:17 B00ts wrote:
So I waited till I played 30 or so games with this patch before sayign anything... but really.. that Terran marine all in crap is rediculous...
And now.. without warp tech as fast as it was.. I cant keep up with zerg unit production.. even with them expanding and throwing down 300 minerals on a second hatch. (Im not talking about zerg on two base and me(P) on one.. im talkin, before and as the second hatch builds. So even if I do hold off the roach rush, which when I prepare for is easy enough... I get rolled a few minutes later once their second base gets going.
I can't put my finger on what would fix it and not sway things in P's favor too much though... the only thing I can think of is a slight nerf to the queen.. but even that may be too much. Nonetheless, IMO, P really has no answer to the Marine rush (90% of my terran opponents do it now), and no answer to zerg, at all.
Yea, I just played a Zerg who did a pretty fast expand and I couldn't really do anything to stop it before he got the benefits. We'll see how it goes in a bit.
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I think infestor as 100 hp would work best... 1 seeker missile -> boom~
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On March 14 2010 08:46 Ryuu314 wrote:
Yea, I just played a Zerg who did a pretty fast expand and I couldn't really do anything to stop it before he got the benefits. We'll see how it goes in a bit.
Ya, me and a friend just finished doing soem PvZ's ... even knowing his build, excluding any cheese builds, we couldn't come up with anything satisfactory. Meh, 'tis beta anyway
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Having creep as a Nydus Worm requirement sounded like the most practical 'nerf'
OLs could be carrying units to drop before it Generates Creep so the Nydus Worm has protection while building
Nydus Worm time should be 15 or 10 if there was a creep requirement
Infestors may need a Cast While Burrowed Upgrade
Q: If an Infestor can't move while using NP can an OL pick them and their new pet up?
NP Probe/SCV use getaway car (OL) after their hit and run
Don't know about the capping of opponents supply when you NP their units - If you do capture a SCV/Probe and make a base they share the same 200 food as the rest of your Zerg forces
If the supply cost of a NP unit went against your food cap it would limit Infestors blanket-NPing your opponents forces
Perhaps a Probe/SCV will require 200E to NP but the Infestors can move afterwords
Infestor E would not recharge until it stopped Channeling - SCV dies after Infestor stops channeling
Q2: Can an Infestor NP more then 1 unit at a time? if yes the units food cost should definitely go against your food cap
2X gas + 2X minerals +2X research time = Burrow received a 600% nerf because of the Roach?
How many Zerg players used Burrow for anything other then Roaches?
Roaches should need a separate Burrow research requirement (@ Roach Den 50 M/G/BT) while the rest of the Z ground forces use the former 50/50/50 Burrow upgrade
Or move Roaches to Lair and Hydras back to Hatch
Sc2 Hatch Hydras stats:
75M 50G 90HP base attack 10 ground range 5(6) air range 5(7) upgrades Range (150/150/80) Armored Air damage upgrade +4 V A-Air (100/100/80)
T2 Roach:
Current stats are reasonable for a Lair Roach just make them 2 supply
Overseer - Spawn Changeling is nice and all but they need a second ability or a major HP/A buff
Oversight - Overlord gain detection for 60 seconds cost 150E
Blind - takes away units vision for 90 seconds 150E
Overcast - creates a fog that's acts as a line of sight blocker for opponents air units 150E
Overcharge - Overseers gain Ludicrous Speed for 5 seconds 150E
Shared Vision - timed version of Parasite
Try T2 Lurkers with +3R upgrade at T3 for a few days to feel them out (Ultra Melee splash is just not the same as Colossus/Tank/Sc1 Lurker splash)
Warp Gates could have a cost per Gateway conversion attached to them with reduced research time (10M 10G per Gateway)
Stalkers - 8 base damage is low for a 125/50 unit 10+3A 90SP 90HP
Phoenix - 10+10 instead of the ridiculous 5+5L(2) that only deals 6 damage to Corruptors MS Carriers and only 4 damage to BCs +2R on AG would also be warranted (seeing as how channelling Phoenixs can't attack)
MS - Bliz go the other way with this unit: 500M 500G 400HP 600SP 180BT 10X10 R7 damage 2A 10R Cloaking field movement speed SLIGHTLY slower then normal + Vortex 125E (or no other abilities)
Mass Recall is too similar to Warp-in and if you wanted Sc1 1.5 bring back the Arbiter and beloved Reaver
Terrans
Thor: give them D. Matrix instead of overkill ground damaging ability and/or air splash damage
Hellion - change the concept of this unit to a Hellbat (Hellion + Firebat)
Hellbat - 90HP motorcycle (Macross style) that moves pretty quickly(no attack) Transforms into the buffed Firebat weapons Dual Incinerators 10+4L (10+10L) R 4 or 5 - instead of line splash players aim where they want the center of the explosion to be Radius 1.5
Cool Transformers transforming sound is required for the best sound effect when switching modes
Island Maps would be appreciated to measure Sc2 Air Balance
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Zealot_Alec Canada. March 14 2010 12:30. Posts 2
This is why this forum is littered with idiotic posts and nonsensical dribble.
On a side note, I think people need to stop trying to punish FE builds and learn how to counter FE effectively. The goal shouldn't be to end the game before 10 minutes. How many noncheese & non zvz pro sc1 games end that early? Very very few.
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I'm not sure, it seems that zerg can expand pretty freely against toss right now. Maybe there can be a way that toss can counter expand? but it seems very hard to play PvZ atm.
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On March 14 2010 12:39 Floophead_III wrote:
Zealot_Alec Canada. March 14 2010 12:30. Posts 2
This is why this forum is littered with idiotic posts and nonsensical dribble.
On a side note, I think people need to stop trying to punish FE builds and learn how to counter FE effectively. The goal shouldn't be to end the game before 10 minutes. How many noncheese & non zvz pro sc1 games end that early? Very very few.
That's the point I am making.. P seems to not be able to keep up consistently with unit production EVEN if we are rushing tier 1 / 1.5 .... AND zerg are FE'n.
If I then decided to lower my unit production further and expand myself, I get owned every time. Don't get me wrong.. I'm no pro at starcraft and don't claim to be.. but its a little bit rediculous right now.
Basically what im saying is in a PvZ right now.. if both expand at the same time, then if their armies meet in the middle..zerg wins pretty easily (assuming a fair matchup of unit choices I mean...im not saying roaches are rolling immortals or anything like that). It's just pretty difficult right now to keep up with unit production at the moment.
On the other hand.. zerg is really fun right now..lol
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
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On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype
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advice to blizzard:
reduce the health of all zerg units and buildings by 20
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They hit Infestors too hard IMO.
Thats multiple nerfs, and the HitPoint one was just too much I think.
I think they are trying too hard to make it the equal to the Queen in SC1: Really week unit, its building is used to go to Hive... and will only help in rare and extremely well executed circumstances.
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On March 14 2010 12:59 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype
post count = experience at SC?
i thought experience = experience ?
respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it.
obviously this isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general stereotypers stereotype. whoa. I should blew my mind.
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On March 14 2010 13:38 cUrsOr wrote:
They hit Infestors too hard IMO.
Thats multiple nerfs, and the HitPoint one was just too much I think.
I think they are trying too hard to make it the equal to the Queen in SC1: Really week unit, its building is used to go to Hive... and will only help in rare and extremely well executed circumstances.
Totally agree. I laugh a little when I see them playing against zerg. I mean i still lose..but just not as badly. lol
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On March 14 2010 16:20 B00ts wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2010 12:59 Divinek wrote:On March 14 2010 12:53 B00ts wrote:
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Just one thing I'd like to add. What is the deal with the hate on the people with low post counts?
people with low post counts are generally inexperienced and don't know what they're talking about(and dont have any respect earned), or have a far higher probability of trashy posting or anything generally disliked by human beings. Obviously it's not set in stone but it's far more likely, so people find it easier to stereotype post count = experience at SC? i thought experience = experience ? respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it. obviously this isnt directed at you or anyone in particular, just the general stereotypers stereotype. whoa. I should blew my mind.
he said generally. stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason, they usually have a basis in reality. doesnt mean they always hold true but in this case it tends to be quite accurate.
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toss and zerg nerfed a lot (roach and warp gates)
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I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
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It seems like zerg units (especially the hydra) have been getting hit hard. is zerg THAT OP? XD
and I think they did the warp gate change to move away from the inevitable (from what i hear) "well im gunna get warp gates, what are you gunna do about it?"... especially in PvP
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On March 14 2010 17:30 Apa7HY wrote:
I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
2007 is not a seasoned veteran ^^
The Infestor nerf was fine I think. It only really nerfs Neural Parasite, and Fungal Growth was the really strong spell at least for Terran.
On March 14 2010 17:40 Jugan wrote:
It seems like zerg units (especially the hydra) have been getting hit hard. is zerg THAT OP? XD
and I think they did the warp gate change to move away from the inevitable (from what i hear) "well im gunna get warp gates, what are you gunna do about it?"... especially in PvP
Zerg was the strongest race imo.
The Warp Gate change was necessary (or at least, some change of that nature), as PvP was pretty ludicrous. In my experience despite Protosses loudly complaining, it hasn't actually killed P in PvT or PvZ.
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I hope they don't nerf Infestors into oblivion and they become like Queens of starcraft 1... i mean without infestors zerg has NO casters (no defiler equivalent in T3, no idea why they removed that...) and that just sucks. I haven't seen any real mutalisk micro, all thats left are roach and bling cute burrow tricks if they kill the infestor.
Zerg needs a T3 caster i think and Infestor should be viable too.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2010 16:20 B00ts wrote:
respect earned through post count?.. so i should go post some more "Jeadong fighting!!!" in proleague threads..or maybe a "LOOOOOL" after losing in MSL(was it OSL?..cant remember) recently.. got it.
Actually, the point is that people who make those types of posts are likely to have been banned before their post count has gotten sufficiently high, unless they've made some contribution to the community.
On March 14 2010 17:30 Apa7HY wrote:
I have a low post count, so people generally disregard things I say, but if you check my join date, I'm actually a pretty seasoned veteran. Post count generally means nothing, in my opinion, but I think join date should be more reflective of experience. Just my two cents.
Most people are too lazy to look up join date.
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EPT
