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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
On March 04 2010 14:17 Azarkon wrote: Well, first Blizzard needs to prove that they can make SC 2 the same competitive game that SC 1 was. Ret's most recent post on GG.net comes to mind. link to Ret's post? | ||
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
Maybe he ment this? | ||
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Baddieko
Singapore855 Posts
Removing LAN option is not a prob because hackers will find a way through for our random gamer to play on LAN, but it prevents kespa from hosting it using 3rd party programs. So a very smart tactic possibly to force kespa to buy the rights in the future. But i don't think it'll ever happen. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
Blizzard: -Tiny drop in the bucket of their vast WoW-funded treasury. Everyone will still buy it even if KeSPA cries forever. KeSPA might hurt their profit margins by 0.1%? KeSPA: -Everything. Oh no, wait, they could try to keep going with only Korean-made games, like Sudden Attack. (LOOOOOOOOOOOOL) Blizzard isn't going to be KeSPA's bitch over their own game. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
It's Blizzards game. Kespa has no rights in this matter, they can negotiate and try to come up with a good solution but in the end the creator of the game chooses what to do with the game. simple as that. | ||
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mmdmmd
722 Posts
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Raneth
England527 Posts
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Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
On March 03 2010 22:56 zatic wrote: Esport Cold War What people need to realize is that both parties stand pretty much toe to toe in this. Both have about equal means to threaten each other it's not all like one party has the upper hand. Blizzard could drag Kespa to court over copyright, but it's the last thing they want to do. A case like this would be dragged out for years, cost a lot, and the result would be entirely uncertain. The IP of computer game generated content has not been resolved at all in court anywhere as far as I know. Together with the production value the Korean TV broadcasts add to the product it is not at all clear who really owns the copyright to the TV rights, or who owns how much. The "best" Blizzard could hope for is shutting down pro BW after spending a lot of money and time in court - something that isn't at all in their interest. They would only lose. On the other hand, Kespa can't continue with SC2 as they did with BW. Demanding licensing and challenging IP would be much easier for SC2 in the beginning from Blizzard perspective. However, Kespa could refuse to cooperate and use their influence over the TV stations and the teams to not give SC2 any recognition. Again, this is the last thing they want to do as well. The result would be equally uncertain as Blizzard's prospect suing Kespa. They might push SC2 in a niche, and continue to live off decreasing BW interest. But it might also create a new rival, whether this would be GOM or a completely new entity. The "best" they can hope for is destroying or hurting SC2's success while also hurting the value of their current product. They would only lose. The two have equally disastrous means to hurt and thus threaten each other, but out of their own interest they won't do so, and both know it. So what we see are all those petty little maneuvers with which they try to demonstrate who has the upper hand. In the end, they will have to work together, or ignore each other enough that both can still do business. pretty much sums it up. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5282 Posts
On March 03 2010 22:56 zatic wrote: Esport Cold War What people need to realize is that both parties stand pretty much toe to toe in this. Both have about equal means to threaten each other it's not all like one party has the upper hand. Blizzard could drag Kespa to court over copyright, but it's the last thing they want to do. A case like this would be dragged out for years, cost a lot, and the result would be entirely uncertain. The IP of computer game generated content has not been resolved at all in court anywhere as far as I know. Together with the production value the Korean TV broadcasts add to the product it is not at all clear who really owns the copyright to the TV rights, or who owns how much. The "best" Blizzard could hope for is shutting down pro BW after spending a lot of money and time in court - something that isn't at all in their interest. They would only lose. On the other hand, Kespa can't continue with SC2 as they did with BW. Demanding licensing and challenging IP would be much easier for SC2 in the beginning from Blizzard perspective. However, Kespa could refuse to cooperate and use their influence over the TV stations and the teams to not give SC2 any recognition. Again, this is the last thing they want to do as well. The result would be equally uncertain as Blizzard's prospect suing Kespa. They might push SC2 in a niche, and continue to live off decreasing BW interest. But it might also create a new rival, whether this would be GOM or a completely new entity. The "best" they can hope for is destroying or hurting SC2's success while also hurting the value of their current product. They would only lose. The two have equally disastrous means to hurt and thus threaten each other, but out of their own interest they won't do so, and both know it. So what we see are all those petty little maneuvers with which they try to demonstrate who has the upper hand. In the end, they will have to work together, or ignore each other enough that both can still do business. While it may be true for BW, I don't agree with SC2 part having the same cold war feeling. Kespa = 0 when it comes to SC2. Money is money, if they decide their precious little teams wont participate, well, I have a feeling there's a few million South Korean teenagers who would be more than happy to take the tournament money. Then you'll see SC players(think Bisu, Jaedong, Flash) not wanting to renew contracts because there's bigger money in SC2 and they have the skill to take that money. Then you'll start seeing teams fall apart. Then the teams will start to lose sponsors. Then you'll start seeing worsening relations between Kespa and individual teams. Then you'll see Kespa die, and the infrastructure collapse. There are more than enough TV stations ready to broadcast SC2 games if OGN/MBC don't do it. And if anything good came out of Kespa, a new organization would come to life in a matter of months and re-do the good things. That's why Kespa will eventually bend over, and allow blizzard to take them from behind. | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On March 04 2010 19:46 niteReloaded wrote: That's why Kespa will eventually bend over, and allow blizzard to take them from behind. I will have my popcorn and soda ready to watch this happen. | ||
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nimoraca
Serbia84 Posts
On March 04 2010 09:07 Liquid`NonY wrote: I have no idea how you read the EULA and came up with that interpretation. If something is written in the EULA, it doesn't mean it is legal. | ||
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nimoraca
Serbia84 Posts
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Squeegy
Finland1166 Posts
On March 04 2010 07:11 sith wrote: Actually, NFL is comparable to KeSPA, not Blizzard, so that analogy doesn't work. Nor does actually the one about pool. It is not clear which one would win a legal battle. The difference between the NFL and KeSPA is that NFL is owns the entire surrounding infrastructure as related to reproducing the games they play, but nobody owns the game itself. They play football, which is not copyrighted. Their legal rights come from the fact that they create and manage these games and teams. KeSPA plays Starcraft, which is copyrighted. While similar to the NFL in that they both manage teams and organize games, they do not actually own the rights to the game they play. In fact the way they broadcast the games using the "replay" technology is provided specifically by Blizzard and any telecasts of the games are basically a derivative work (IE under copyright by Blizzard). Blizzard could shut them the hell down if they really wanted to, while there is nobody that could "shut down" the NFL for playing footbal.[/QUOTE] Well, it seems you know more about law and the bolded part I don't know much about, so I stand corrected. | ||
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Klimpen
New Zealand100 Posts
Activision Blizzard is -not- the same as Blizzard Entertainment. Blizzard was owned by Vivendi Interactive, which is owned by Vivendi which is an entertainment conglomerate - It owns large amounts of or controlling stakes in Universal Music, NBC Universal and now what's now known as Activison Blizzard, among other things. Activision Blizzard came about when Vivendi Interactive bought controlling stakes in Activision. Blizzard Entertainment currently gets 98% of its income from WoW, with operating margins at roughly 50%. WoW, along with the CoD and Guitar Hero franchises, generate more than 2/3rds of Activision Blizzard's net profit. Blizzard Entertainment has extremely deep pockets at the moment, and gets given a lot of leeway to do their own thing, because they're making so much money. Currently they're working on SC2 [2010], Cataclysm [2010], Diablo3 [2011], Unnamed New Franchise MMO [2011]. | ||
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On March 04 2010 11:13 Raz0r wrote: If the legal technicalities say that Blizzard is entitled to a piece of the profits that you earn from their products, then shouldn't all other companies charge other people for using their product to make something of their own? If the people already bought the game cd i dont understand why they are still entitled to more than that. For example, if someone started a sock business, do the business owners owe the the person who invented socks more money just because they are using that person's idea to expand and make their own profits? Unfortunately, it's even more complicated than that. People need to understand that intellectual property cannot change ownership in the same sense that a sock, or a car or any other physical thing can, nor can it be bought in the same way, nor stolen. You also don't "own" the replay file (or any file on your computer for that matter), in the same sense in which you own your socks or the hard drive, on which you store your files. Legally it is a completely different matter and it's a difference that matters. The best analogy I can think of would be a DJ, who mixes up a song with his l33t mixing skills and asks people to pay for it. He will need to pay royalties to the author of that song no matter if the people only come to watch/hear his skills, because the song he uses is not and never will be his property, but was authored by someone else. He does not require to pay royalties to, nor permission to use from the manufacturer of his mixing station, because this is his property and he can deduce different usage rights from the fact that he owns it. Can somebody link me to a source which explains what kind of broadcast rights Kespa/OGN/MBC bought from Blizzard in 2001, cause I never heard about that before. | ||
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bias-
United States410 Posts
On March 04 2010 21:27 Squeegy wrote: The difference between the NFL and KeSPA is that NFL is owns the entire surrounding infrastructure as related to reproducing the games they play, but nobody owns the game itself. They play football, which is not copyrighted. Their legal rights come from the fact that they create and manage these games and teams. KeSPA plays Starcraft, which is copyrighted. While similar to the NFL in that they both manage teams and organize games, they do not actually own the rights to the game they play. In fact the way they broadcast the games using the "replay" technology is provided specifically by Blizzard and any telecasts of the games are basically a derivative work (IE under copyright by Blizzard). Blizzard could shut them the hell down if they really wanted to, while there is nobody that could "shut down" the NFL for playing footbal. QFT. Blizzard can play the trump card, it's sad this is turning out to be a conflict. These two parties have benefited each other enormously up until now! The greed involved on, perhaps both, either side is misplaced. Negotiations over rights are bound to happen, but in the end are really just battling for who profits most. And Blizzard wins an all-out war like Squeegy says. But Blizz is anything but a dumb company, and keeping KeSPA on their side somehow to further propagate pro-gaming in Korea, and hopefully, elsewhere all over the world (with their game as a pure profit per units sold of course) is probably on their agenda. | ||
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Jayson X
Switzerland2431 Posts
What's happening here is totally crazy anyway. If you allow the football analogy. Blizzard is not just changing the color of the grass but the entire game. This might be easy to handle for basement kids, but it's something completely different for anybody else in the business. i don't know...If it wasnt for SC2 how much presence would Blizzard show in Korea anyway? | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
Also, tournament money is provided by sponsors, so if there are no interested sponsors, or no large sponsors - then the available prizes won't be attractive. Spectator sports are about audiences and sponsorship. If a game/sport/etc attracts a viewing audience that is attractive to advertisers, then sponsors will provide the money to run leagues and tournaments. I don't think SC2, despite whatever quality Blizzard is capable of, has anything special about it that will cause it to attract an unusually large breakout audience in the west. It's just another computer/video game that probably won't have appeal beyond the game playing audience, so I really don't think SC2's pro-gaming growth will start in the west, if it's to surpass previous games like counterstrike or unreal tournament. If Blizzard's conflict with KeSPA comes to be perceived in SKorea as a nationalistic issue, then SC2's competitive scene there may end up stillborn. Plus who's to say that SC2 will even reach SC1's level of popularity even if everyone cooperated? Several games have come and go since SC1's release and none of them have developed scenes as large. | ||
Waxangel
United States33651 Posts
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On March 04 2010 22:57 Waxangel wrote: on a side note, thanks for reproducing without crediting, gg.net thats what gosugamers does, no surprise there | ||
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