On February 24 2010 10:50 Norway wrote: lol hey gaiz.... you realize this is still in the beta process?
/thread
Way to slap yourself. You realize that was the ALPHA vs final versions ? The beta sc1 was very close to the final one. Same with WC3. Based on previous beta experiences, Blizzard usually releases the final product 5-8 months after the beta phase starts.
What we're talking about here is minor changes to the graphics, could be such easy fix such as changing some lighting options - imo blizzard will get it right. Also I don't really give a fuck about the graphics, gameplay is so much more important, on top of that you hav e to take into account how much you'll be able to change and alter the graphics on your end, I know of quite a few players who actually find it easier to turn down the graphics all together. But I digress, this isn't Broodwar and there WILL be changes before this game hit shelves knowing how anal Blizzard is about getting a game as perfect as they can.
The factory, barracks, orbital command, planetary fortress, and engineering bay arent just "toyish" they are BORING, really really boring. I actualy like the starport though
this game seems really hard to micro and see everything clearly...stuff is just too close together what can i say? In sc1 you could see what the goon is aiming for the second its energy ball comes out..because its headed to a specific angle and things are in different places.
If you make this game too realistic, it would be hard to tell what's going on your screen. Much like real armies, they want to not be seen. I don't think anyone engaged in a real gun fight would wear neon colored clothing unless they would be asking to get shot.
This is a game though. I kind of like the brighter colors, but they I would be pleased if they used other colors as well. It's kind of hard to distinguish what kind of zerg is attacking you, lol. That or changing the overall look of it would be good too.
Personally I hate the look of SC2. While they toned down on the "cartoony" look somewhat, it still looks very clunky and "cartoony" to me. But then again, I've come to expect this since it is Blizzard's distinct artistic style and it doesn't really mesh with me because I'm the type of person that tends to prefer more realism.
When I look at SC2 right now, I just don't feel like Blizzard has taken the graphics a whole lot further than where they were at when they made WC3. Everything just lacks the detail I feel it could have and the unit and building models don't anything REMOTELY like something that would actually exist or be built. I suppose to me it's sort've like the difference between Enterprise from Star Trek and the Galactica from the remade BSG series. One just looks more sensible and more like something that might actually one day be built than the other from a design standpoint and one actually has rust and dirt whereas the other is full of bright lights and looks sterile. The current buildings and units just look so round, unrealistic in design, and TOO CLEAN (real buildings do not look like they've just been removed from a plastic wrap) and it's clearly not because Blizzard lacks the capability to make them look more rugged and realistic. And while I can appreciate that they have their own aesthetic sense, I simply disagree with it as it applies to this game.
Blizzard already has a "cartoony" and "blocky" looking franchise with Warcraft. I just wish that they took a more gritty and realistic approach to the look of Starcraft. I feel that buildings should look more rugged with sharper angles than they currently have as opposed to looking so clean as they do and the units themselves should look a bit more believable than they do (ie. SIEGE TANK). It's not all bad for me, though. I do love the look of the spells and some of the attacks. Psi Storm in particular looks absolutely amazing now and I'm loving it every time I see it cast.
With SC1, we were dealing with 2D graphics so it was inevitably going to look a bit contrived, but we've come a long way since then and I feel the graphical style should evolve with that. Honestly, even if they just made the buildings look a bit dirty the game would start to look a hell of a lot better than it currently does
Personally I think the bright vivid colors is what is driving the "Cartoony" Look or feel for some people just because SC 1 ones graphics were gritty and very much so on a darker hue than that of SC 2. Minerals geysers and many lasers emit a extreme radiating glow thats hard not to focus on which isn't a bad thing to some and is a horrible death to others.
I thought we got over the hue and cry of "modern gamers won't buy 2D games!" after Pop Cap made an embarrassing amount of money making games that look like they're from 1992. How much has Plants vs. Zombies made so far?
I really think the problem here is terran. Protoss buidling looks so good because it seems "realistic" that an advanced race have all these smooth, round perfect buildings. I mean, everything protoss have shields, how could they get dirty and worn down?
Meanwhile, terran is the human race which are imperfect, dirty and brute.
It seems to me like they are making a lot of terrans art too similar to protoss with regard to smoothness ect. This is also another issue because the races then seem less distinct. And this distinction was what made SC1 unique from other RTS's.
I think the reason why it looks cartoonish is that blizzard emphasised on the wrong things when making the models. For example, the new cc looks like some sort of lego toy assembled together with a whole bunch of gimmicks on them. Whereas the gimmicks on the old supply depot that had rotating fans were removed. Hell i guess the reason why everyone is raging is cause the units are so pristine and shiny and it doesnt fit into tge starcraft lore. You expect someone to have the luxury of polishing his tank/carrier in times of war?
On another hand i dont mind the new graphics. Its a new game for goodness sake, i dont wanna waste money buying another souped up version of scbw if i can play the old one
On February 24 2010 21:14 marshmallow wrote: I thought we got over the hue and cry of "modern gamers won't buy 2D games!" after Pop Cap made an embarrassing amount of money making games that look like they're from 1992. How much has Plants vs. Zombies made so far?
yes, because a small indie game is the same as a big-budget complex rts game
I'm a aspiring environment modeler and i gotta say. The sc2 stuff does look toy like. It has no grit nor grime to anything, it all looks "fresh outta the box". Nothing is ever perfectly clean, even ordinarily clean objects have wear and tear. Everything in starcraft is for one main purpose: War. You are gonna see war torn, beat up, grungy piles of junk in a military.
Quick 5min photoshop(basically used burn tool) i did to show what i mean:
You know using photoshop is a BS way to p[rove your point. You are editing a 2d image of a 3d model. You can't just simply do that to the in game 3d model, you have to take things like map lighting and shaders into account, not just turning down the brightness.
On February 24 2010 22:53 flabortaster wrote: You know using photoshop is a BS way to p[rove your point. You are editing a 2d image of a 3d model. You can't just simply do that to the in game 3d model, you have to take things like map lighting and shaders into account, not just turning down the brightness.
Textures are 2D and they're then added to a 3D model. What he did was just add some burn marks here and there. Doing the same on Blizzard's side would also take ~5 minutes.
A 2d texture(image) is exactly the way they apply a texture to a 3d model. All i did was use a tool called burn. That is all they would need to do apply to the colour map of the model. They wouldn't even need to change the light maps, spec maps or even the AO maps to get it to look the way i did. Edit: Ty Manit0u
I agree with a lot of the points here. Sharper edges, more contrast, darker images, and a more worn look would makes things a little better.
However, I have to say I do like the brilliant design of some things a lot. For instance, how the minerals glow and shine looks amazing to me! They also have sharp edges and the combination of sharp edges and lighting I find to be really awesome.
I'm also not a huge fan of a lot of the zerg units, especially the drone. If you turn down the graphics settings to medium, I find zerg units and buildings looks particularly bad.
I think some of the "edgework" is too thick and bulky, which becomes really prominent in a 3D environment. Such as the platforms on the supply depot: There's no reason for them to be that high. Not a huge problem, but trying to tap into why some of the buildings might look a bit toonish when you mention it. They're just very bulky.
On February 24 2010 21:55 Toyman69 wrote: I'm a aspiring environment modeler and i gotta say. The sc2 stuff does look toy like. It has no grit nor grime to anything, it all looks "fresh outta the box". Nothing is ever perfectly clean, even ordinarily clean objects have wear and tear. Everything in starcraft is for one main purpose: War. You are gonna see war torn, beat up, grungy piles of junk in a military.
Quick 5min photoshop(basically used burn tool) i did to show what i mean:
this
terran looks awful.
other races seem okish except the stupid wings on the zerglings. god i hate them
On February 24 2010 21:55 Toyman69 wrote: I'm a aspiring environment modeler and i gotta say. The sc2 stuff does look toy like. It has no grit nor grime to anything, it all looks "fresh outta the box". Nothing is ever perfectly clean, even ordinarily clean objects have wear and tear. Everything in starcraft is for one main purpose: War. You are gonna see war torn, beat up, grungy piles of junk in a military.
Quick 5min photoshop(basically used burn tool) i did to show what i mean:
this
terran looks awful.
other races seem okish except the stupid wings on the zerglings. god i hate them
Not to turn this into a talk about those, but I love the ling-wings. It makes them into insects, which is how I've always thought of them.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.myextralife.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/starcraft_alpha_build.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/7219/supplydepo.jpg)
