Widow mine becomes weak as skill increases? - Page 5

On February 10 2013 07:45 aksfjh wrote:

If you could waste 1 forcefield for every 1 ling you sent at a Protoss base, would that not be worth it? You wouldn't kill the sentry, but could make it useless, making it essentially 2 supply of dead weight until it gains that energy back. That's what happens when 1 marine or 1 ling detonates 1 mine, it makes that mine dead weight for 40s.

What does it take to do that if he has 10 mines around the map (20 supply)? About 3s of separating out 10 lings in a relatively stress free situation to lead the way to whatever the target is. Or you can just, idk, expand more because it's not like he can actually attack you with the mines.

On February 10 2013 07:50 Buff345 wrote:
I just want to say that one thing that Zergs have done against me when I have widow mines is to magic box their mutas and just sit them right over top of my army. My Mines all target the Mutas and they blow up their Mutas as well as my whole army. It might sound kinda silly but it actually kinda sucks to be the Terran in that situation cause then they just come in with their Zerglings and all my mines are detonated already and I have no units left.

Obviously, I could just unborrow my mines if I see the Mutas coming or some other kinda of positioning/micro, but I wanted to point this out if you zergies see a Terran with his Mines too close to his army.

On February 10 2013 07:50 Buff345 wrote:
I just want to say that one thing that Zergs have done against me when I have widow mines is to magic box their mutas and just sit them right over top of my army. My Mines all target the Mutas and they blow up their Mutas as well as my whole army. It might sound kinda silly but it actually kinda sucks to be the Terran in that situation cause then they just come in with their Zerglings and all my mines are detonated already and I have no units left.

Obviously, I could just unborrow my mines if I see the Mutas coming or some other kinda of positioning/micro, but I wanted to point this out if you zergies see a Terran with his Mines too close to his army.

On February 10 2013 07:39 Spyridon wrote:
Wow... some of the comments here are so ridiculous....



That's so far off, but let's say what your saying is true for a second. How about using your ability to choose the Mines target (which you can do), or if your worried about them being dodged, how about using your positioning and drops to restrict their movement so they can't get away?

On February 10 2013 07:51 Qikz wrote:


Similar thing happened to me, but with toss and hallu pheonixes. I thought it'd be suicide to put my mines right next to my army, but I didn't realise mine dragging would do that much damage in this game and well, boom went all my tanks :p

On February 10 2013 08:08 aksfjh wrote:

By "dodge," I meant straight up avoid the mines by taking different routes if you're using them to control space. As for the targeting part, again, it takes too much APM and attention to do in a 1s window.

On February 10 2013 08:42 RampancyTW wrote:
Not really. Hotkey lead mine, see red, double-tap hotkey, click clump.

Your ability to devote APM and attention to your mines should scale pretty nicely with your opponent's ability to deal efficiently with mines on the map. It's a nice self-balancing mechanism.

On February 10 2013 10:00 aksfjh wrote:

I would agree if there was some sort of hold-fire mechanism, but there isn't. The reaction window for targeting is extremely small, to the point where even knowing something is coming and being focused on the action, you can still miss it.

On February 10 2013 08:42 darkscream wrote:
The thing is... Widow mines give about as much as you put into them.

Yes, if you just siege them up like a tank, people will bait a shot and then run past them. But that's only if they know they are there. The upgrade which lets them burrow instantly is very very very strong in the late game, because if you are consistent and tricky with moving them around, it can be a real nightmare to attack into. Keep in mind just having mines at all demands detection from your opponent - not an insignificant cost.

Widow mines are the sort of unit that really reward multitasking. If you can look right at them in the main engagement sure, they can be out micro'd. But the more spread out they are, the more APM they demand from your opponent to deal with, and it's a disproportionate amount compared to you setting them up. I've faced terran players who will literally try to drop/runby a widowmine into every base I have as they push out with their main army - it's a huge pain in the ass distraction because you can't just a-move in their direction like a bio drop, and they're VERY easy to lose track of in a hectic game just like DTs or burrowed infestors would be.

You can also use them not to defend an attack, but to flank an incoming attack, so as you force their retreat they get bombed (usually detection will be in front, not behind). I think they have a lot of really sick tactical uses, especially if you consider them as a tax on your opponent's attention span more than a sick pew-pew missle launcher. The simplest way to use them is to defend bases or accompany a big army as you move out, but I suspect we will see some very sick and painful tactical plays in the future when a skilled & korean harassment-oriented terran looks into them further for us.

On February 09 2013 04:10 avilo wrote:
I cautioned this at the very start of beta. I said and repeatedly tried to give feedback to blizzard, the widow mine is a flawed unit. It's strong early game-ish but the longer the game goes, the shittier and more non-existent the unit becomes when the higher tech units come into play.

In the first months of beta/release, the widow mine will seem OK, but as players figure out the game and games lengthen into longer macro games, there will 100% be a problem and the unit will be shown to have an extremely flawed design - the main thing being that it costs 2 supply making your army weaker the longer the game goes, and the more of them you have in your army.

The mine also seems extremely OP vs low skill level players, but vs masters level to pro level the mine will end up looking worthless.

Already wrote many posts about this, here and on the pro forums, as well as mentioning it in videos. I'm sure others have as well to an extent, but blizzard does not seem to recognize this as an issue.

The other issue is these don't really work well with a Terran deathball, while all of the other new additions and buffs to Protoss and Zerg actually enhance those lategame deathballs.

Terran is left out in the cold again.

On February 09 2013 11:13 sagefreke wrote:
I don't get all the hate against the WM. The unit has essentially replaced the siege tank at this point in terms of high damage +splash.

On February 13 2013 02:23 Vlare wrote:
I feel widow mines allow for Terran players to really control the mobility of their opponent. It also forces multiple observers once the tech is revealed because, the mines can be dropped in mineral lines at any point in time, placed at future expansions, and to deny drops defensively for Terran. If not observers, it forces cannons. The mines essentially pay for themselves assuming the other player respects them and responds. And if they don't. 1widowmine drop can simply end the game. I feel between widow mines and hellbats, Terran has a lot of potential currently in the harrassment / forcing the opponent into the defensive area.