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On February 10 2013 04:04 Novacute wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 03:45 Spyridon wrote:On February 10 2013 01:50 Sated wrote:On February 09 2013 04:10 avilo wrote:
I cautioned this at the very start of beta. I said and repeatedly tried to give feedback to blizzard, the widow mine is a flawed unit. It's strong early game-ish but the longer the game goes, the shittier and more non-existent the unit becomes when the higher tech units come into play.
In the first months of beta/release, the widow mine will seem OK, but as players figure out the game and games lengthen into longer macro games, there will 100% be a problem and the unit will be shown to have an extremely flawed design - the main thing being that it costs 2 supply making your army weaker the longer the game goes, and the more of them you have in your army.
The mine also seems extremely OP vs low skill level players, but vs masters level to pro level the mine will end up looking worthless.
Already wrote many posts about this, here and on the pro forums, as well as mentioning it in videos. I'm sure others have as well to an extent, but blizzard does not seem to recognize this as an issue.
The other issue is these don't really work well with a Terran deathball, while all of the other new additions and buffs to Protoss and Zerg actually enhance those lategame deathballs.
Terran is left out in the cold again. Hellbats pretty much work with a Terran "deathball", even without upgrades they're great vs. Chargelots. Plus how good they are to drop, especially early game. "Left out in the cold"... Yeah... People who say Terrans left in the cold are out of their minds. Between the new units, even stronger harass options, earlier tanks, and Ravens getting an incredible buff, IMO Terran got the best buffs of all the races in the expansion, so much so that I've actually off-raced them a bit (I NEVER played any race but Zerg in WoL past the campaign). I agree with this totally. As a WoL masters in random, Terran was always my achiles heel and i almost always lose against equivalent P/Z and dreaded rolling terran, especially in TvZ. Now, i can't wait to roll Terran whenever i click that play ranked button. Terrans are shaping to be a very well balanced race from start to finish and is my favourite to play with. Those mines and ravens (drools).
Yeah. The Ravens are incredible. In WoL they didn't compare to a Sci Vessel, but now they might even be stronger than a Sci Vessel!
Hellbats and Widow mines are incredible if for no other reason, because of how insanely cheap they are! As a Zerg main I can honestly say you don't know how much of an asset it is to be able to get such a variety of units earlier game.
As Zerg in WoL I felt I was the race best used for flanking opponents and always used it as an integral part of my strategy. But now? You would never think it but Terrans are even better. Engage and then drop some hellbats behind the enemy and they will start eating up all the light units, send in a bunch of Seeker Missiles, and bam... all thats left is a bunch of blood on the ground. The Hellbats trap the opponent so you can't run off, if they try backing off they get burnt up by Hellbats, if they move forward they run in to unavoidable Widows, and either choice they pick they aren't getting away from the missiles!
This is after relentless harassment the entire game... Just nuts! Terran has an improved early game AND late game because of this!
Yeah Zerg has a lot of strong stuff added to their late game, but the best new Zerg unit is definitely the Viper (spellcaster), but Terran got 2 amazing early game units and Raven is basically a new spellcaster as well. The synergy of those 3 is sick... especially when you bring a "Zerg" flanking mentality in to the mix!
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I actually think as skill increases, really good Terrans can bait and push armies into money widow mine hits.
I'm not a Terran but:
1. Hide widow mine in medivac
2. Engage in a battle.
3. When you are sure he is not looking, drop the widow mine and burrow it somewhere good
4. Bait army in an angle that will push or pull the enemy into the trap
5. Profit?
Terrans agree?
I also think widow mines in enemy retreat paths will become a thing.
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On February 09 2013 10:28 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 04:10 avilo wrote:
I cautioned this at the very start of beta. I said and repeatedly tried to give feedback to blizzard, the widow mine is a flawed unit. It's strong early game-ish but the longer the game goes, the shittier and more non-existent the unit becomes when the higher tech units come into play.
In the first months of beta/release, the widow mine will seem OK, but as players figure out the game and games lengthen into longer macro games, there will 100% be a problem and the unit will be shown to have an extremely flawed design - the main thing being that it costs 2 supply making your army weaker the longer the game goes, and the more of them you have in your army.
The mine also seems extremely OP vs low skill level players, but vs masters level to pro level the mine will end up looking worthless.
Already wrote many posts about this, here and on the pro forums, as well as mentioning it in videos. I'm sure others have as well to an extent, but blizzard does not seem to recognize this as an issue.
The other issue is these don't really work well with a Terran deathball, while all of the other new additions and buffs to Protoss and Zerg actually enhance those lategame deathballs.
Terran is left out in the cold again. The dumbest thing about mines is that they're balanced with low level play in mind. They're "strong" at that level, but crap like banelings, storm, fungals, and colossi are broken as shit (but balanced at the pro level). But I've learned that we can't have nice things as Terran, so whatever.
Having Marines but complains about having no nice thing?
On February 09 2013 02:43 MockHamill wrote:
A few weeks ago I would go widow mine/air and have a 70% win rate vs Zerg. Zerg players tried to go for BroodLords/Corruptor or Ultras and widow mines + viking/bansehee/raven would work great against both.
Then lately every player seems to have learned how to bait widow mines with a few units then go in with their whole army and wipe out the widow mines field after they have fired.
Is this the future of widow mines?
The future is certainly not that you maintain 70% versus zerg.
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I think this is a bit like saying "skilled players never lose to cheese" (and the widow mine is quite a bit more solid than that). Well actually, they do. Happens all the time. It's all about how you scout and deal with it in a given game.
The widow mine in particular is extremely punishing if you ever make even one mistake during any 2-second period in a game that could go for an hour. I don't think any human being is capable of never losing units to Widow Mines, especially given that you can be very clever about their placement.
It's not always as simple as "run a ling or overlord by" if the rest of the army will kill that unit first, there's nothing you can do. Sometimes, unless someone comes up with something new, you really just have to engage all the mines and tank all the hits and be as spread out as you can.
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Widow mines are really good to act as a buffer vs Zerg using mech. Especially vs Ultras. 125 instant unmitigated damage? Yes please. Even better when Zerg throws down a few blinding clouds long as you sit near your mines.
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On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot
You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup.
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mines are definitely less effective at higher levels but it will always be useful even at the top level.
After all, we still see occasional burrowed banelings used to significant effect at the top levels of play, and functionality wise, Widow mines are better in every way (cost, damage, range) except for supply than burrowed banelings.
Similar to how we now often see banelings burrowed in the middle of an actual battle, I think in the future we will see mines used as part of battles like someone else mentioned. It doesn't matter if blizzard intended them to be defensive to discourage death balls, i think we all know that blizzard cant usually do what they intend.
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Widow mines suck. Bottom line. They're nothing more than a gimmick play. You can't use them as defense since they have range 5 and have a tendency to either be dodged or sacrificed on 1 unit. Even when your opponent is an idiot and a+moves into the mine(s), the AI tends to create a line of units in SC2, reducing the effectiveness of mines a TON. Their only use is to use them offensively into mineral lines (which is better done with hellbats) or attempt some suicidal burrow during an engagement (which is wasted APM). Bad unit, bad design.
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They actually encourage deathballs.
Not only are they super efficient when they're used in combination with an army to make it more difficult to engage the army without taking huge splash, while making it more difficult to activate or kill them because they're protected by said army, they make it impossible for small groups of units to move around the map quickly without detection, which means you're always better off keeping your whole army together, with Overseers on top, and moving cautiously across the map, checking every inch for mines, deathball style.
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On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup.
Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target.
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On February 10 2013 06:35 Disastorm wrote:
mines are definitely less effective at higher levels but it will always be useful even at the top level.
After all, we still see occasional burrowed banelings used to significant effect at the top levels of play, and functionality wise, Widow mines are better in every way (cost, damage, range) except for supply than burrowed banelings.
Similar to how we now often see banelings burrowed in the middle of an actual battle, I think in the future we will see mines used as part of battles like someone else mentioned. It doesn't matter if blizzard intended them to be defensive to discourage death balls, i think we all know that blizzard cant usually do what they intend.
Burrowed banelings don't randomly explode on 1 ling/marine/zealot, cost 1/2 of a supply, and can be used while unburrowed. Burrowed banelings in combat work because of that last point, since your opponent is attempting to dodge banelings, it's easy to miss a few being burrowed between all the "fancy lights." Also, in the case of burrowed banelings, the Terran is almost always the aggressor, willing to give chase to push further into the base and get caught by baneling mines. That's hardly the case against Terran.
Face it, you're all coming up with excuses for the unit, just like you did with ravens in WoL. It's a crappy unit in both design and balance.
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On February 10 2013 06:46 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup. Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target.
And what if there are 2 mines, what if there are 3? How do you know how many Zerglings to run ahead? So you run 1 ling ahead, it blew up, what do you do now? You keep running? What if there's another mine a little further ahead? Do you stop, put 1 ling ahead again, then start moving your units again?
So move-stop-move-stop... that sounds to me like you're moving a lot slower all of a sudden, aren't you? That is my whole point.
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On February 10 2013 06:49 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:46 DeCoup wrote:On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup. Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target. And what if there are 2 mines, what if there are 3? How do you know how many Zerglings to run ahead? So you run 1 ling ahead, it blew up, what do you do now? You keep running? What if there's another mine a little further ahead? Do you stop, put 1 ling ahead again, then start moving your units again? So move-stop-move-stop... that sounds to me like you're moving a lot slower a lot of a sudden, aren't you? That is my whole point.
You put 1 ling in front. If there is more than 1 mine in a group, they all reveal until the first mine shoots. If your ling catches a mine, you know the Terran is wasting resources on mines and you repeat the process for every mine you find. It's not like Terran is Zerg, where 20-30s of defense can be the difference between crushing the push and dying. If the Terran is wasting supply on mines and you trip 3-6 of them without taking REAL damage, you've already won the engagement basically.
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On February 10 2013 06:53 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:49 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 06:46 DeCoup wrote:On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup. Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target. And what if there are 2 mines, what if there are 3? How do you know how many Zerglings to run ahead? So you run 1 ling ahead, it blew up, what do you do now? You keep running? What if there's another mine a little further ahead? Do you stop, put 1 ling ahead again, then start moving your units again? So move-stop-move-stop... that sounds to me like you're moving a lot slower a lot of a sudden, aren't you? That is my whole point. You put 1 ling in front. If there is more than 1 mine in a group, they all reveal until the first mine shoots. If your ling catches a mine, you know the Terran is wasting resources on mines and you repeat the process for every mine you find. It's not like Terran is Zerg, where 20-30s of defense can be the difference between crushing the push and dying. If the Terran is wasting supply on mines and you trip 3-6 of them without taking REAL damage, you've already won the engagement basically.
Oh but I didn't kill the mine, I just triggered it. Nothing is wasted, except that Zergling I lost. Terran doesn't need to put all the mines together in 1 clump, just because I triggered one, doesn't mean I will see or trigger the one a little further ahead, unless I proceed with the same caution.
If I want to actually "waste" the mine, I need detection. Which again brings me back to my point. My Zerglings now, for all practical purposes, have 2.25 move speed.
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On February 10 2013 06:43 aksfjh wrote:
Widow mines suck. Bottom line. They're nothing more than a gimmick play. You can't use them as defense since they have range 5 and have a tendency to either be dodged or sacrificed on 1 unit. Even when your opponent is an idiot and a+moves into the mine(s), the AI tends to create a line of units in SC2, reducing the effectiveness of mines a TON. Their only use is to use them offensively into mineral lines (which is better done with hellbats) or attempt some suicidal burrow during an engagement (which is wasted APM). Bad unit, bad design.
... you can say that during the beta already, before the game is launched?
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As a high master Protoss playing against lots of GMs and some pros I have to say:
Hate the Widow Mine!
Also hate the Hellbat, those two really suck, don't ever use them!
Makes my life a lot easier!
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On February 09 2013 04:10 avilo wrote:
I cautioned this at the very start of beta. I said and repeatedly tried to give feedback to blizzard, the widow mine is a flawed unit. It's strong early game-ish but the longer the game goes, the shittier and more non-existent the unit becomes when the higher tech units come into play.
In the first months of beta/release, the widow mine will seem OK, but as players figure out the game and games lengthen into longer macro games, there will 100% be a problem and the unit will be shown to have an extremely flawed design - the main thing being that it costs 2 supply making your army weaker the longer the game goes, and the more of them you have in your army.
The mine also seems extremely OP vs low skill level players, but vs masters level to pro level the mine will end up looking worthless.
Already wrote many posts about this, here and on the pro forums, as well as mentioning it in videos. I'm sure others have as well to an extent, but blizzard does not seem to recognize this as an issue.
The other issue is these don't really work well with a Terran deathball, while all of the other new additions and buffs to Protoss and Zerg actually enhance those lategame deathballs.
Terran is left out in the cold again.
I just wonder, what the fuck are you doing in the pro forum? Or is it the "pro whiner" forum? Cause honestly, you're a disease in this community. Every single post you make is filled with discontent towards the games balance, and it has always been purely about terrans UP. I bet you could find posts from back in 2010 of you crying terran UP aswell... sigh, Avilo.. such a joke
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On February 10 2013 06:59 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:53 aksfjh wrote:On February 10 2013 06:49 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 06:46 DeCoup wrote:On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup. Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target. And what if there are 2 mines, what if there are 3? How do you know how many Zerglings to run ahead? So you run 1 ling ahead, it blew up, what do you do now? You keep running? What if there's another mine a little further ahead? Do you stop, put 1 ling ahead again, then start moving your units again? So move-stop-move-stop... that sounds to me like you're moving a lot slower a lot of a sudden, aren't you? That is my whole point. You put 1 ling in front. If there is more than 1 mine in a group, they all reveal until the first mine shoots. If your ling catches a mine, you know the Terran is wasting resources on mines and you repeat the process for every mine you find. It's not like Terran is Zerg, where 20-30s of defense can be the difference between crushing the push and dying. If the Terran is wasting supply on mines and you trip 3-6 of them without taking REAL damage, you've already won the engagement basically. Oh but I didn't kill the mine, I just triggered it. Nothing is wasted, except that Zergling I lost. Terran doesn't need to put all the mines together in 1 clump, just because I triggered one, doesn't mean I will see or trigger the one a little further ahead, unless I proceed with the same caution. If I want to actually "waste" the mine, I need detection. Which again brings me back to my point. My Zerglings now, for all practical purposes, have 2.25 move speed.
If thats how you choose to play I guess. To me the only "waste" you describe is the waste of time and resources you are using to kill mines with your current method. Look at it this way. If you have an overseer near your army AND you keep 1 ling in front you can run around at max speed. When your front ling gets blown up you have 40 seconds to get your overseer in position to let the rest of the lings kill the mine. This way your lings are moving at max speed at all times and you are still loosing 1 ling to kill 1 mine.
But more importantly, do you realize that mines become visible (but still not attackable without detection) when you are within 5.5 radius of them? And that even when you are within their attack range of 5 it takes around a second before they actually fire? If you are watching your lings you can see a mine reveal and double back without it even shooting. Using an overseer for constant detection is a crutch. And not a good one, because as you have said you are sacrificing movement speed when there are other options you could be taking which don't require such a large sacrifice.
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Wow... some of the comments here are so ridiculous....
On February 10 2013 06:43 aksfjh wrote:
Widow mines suck. Bottom line. They're nothing more than a gimmick play. You can't use them as defense since they have range 5 and have a tendency to either be dodged or sacrificed on 1 unit. Even when your opponent is an idiot and a+moves into the mine(s), the AI tends to create a line of units in SC2, reducing the effectiveness of mines a TON. Their only use is to use them offensively into mineral lines (which is better done with hellbats) or attempt some suicidal burrow during an engagement (which is wasted APM). Bad unit, bad design.
That's so far off, but let's say what your saying is true for a second. How about using your ability to choose the Mines target (which you can do), or if your worried about them being dodged, how about using your positioning and drops to restrict their movement so they can't get away?
On February 10 2013 06:44 sitromit wrote:
They actually encourage deathballs.
Not only are they super efficient when they're used in combination with an army to make it more difficult to engage the army without taking huge splash, while making it more difficult to activate or kill them because they're protected by said army, they make it impossible for small groups of units to move around the map quickly without detection, which means you're always better off keeping your whole army together, with Overseers on top, and moving cautiously across the map, checking every inch for mines, deathball style.
Wow again... AoE is the counter to deathball play.... If you do what you are saying you are doing EXACTLY what the Terran player wants you to do, and your bound to blow up a number of units... Or crawl at a snails pace in to their other AoE.
I can't wait until pros start playing and show people how to use Widows properly. For some reason people are thinking of the proper usage of them as spreading them randomly across the map. They arent spider mines, these mines are actual units that cost supply... Use them like a real unit and maybe you'll start seeing how useful they are...
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On February 10 2013 06:59 sitromit wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 06:53 aksfjh wrote:On February 10 2013 06:49 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 06:46 DeCoup wrote:On February 10 2013 06:27 sitromit wrote:On February 10 2013 01:44 Isualin wrote:On February 10 2013 00:37 Fencar wrote:
Honestly, I think Widow Mines are OP against Zerglings and Banelings.
A single shot can kill up to 30+ Zerglings and or Banelings.
i don't have access to beta so i can't test. is this true if you a-move your lings into a mine? 30 seemed a lot You don't need to a-move to lose units. You can lose 30+ lings any time you go anywhere with your units, unless you're always moving around the map with detection. Which pretty much completely negates the speed advantage of any Zerg unit that is faster than an Overseer with speed upgrade. For all practical purposes Zerglings and Mutalisks have 2.75 move speed now in HotS in the TvZ matchup. Unless you keep 1 ling in front of your army.... Then your speed is unaffected. I've been trying to work out the fastest way to get 1 ling in front of my army especially when changing directions. What I'm doing atm is box all, rightclick where I want to go, shift click 1 out of the group, then pressing stop and reclicking the location I want to travel too. I feel like it's faster to do that than it is to select 1 ling and move to target then select the rest of move to target. And what if there are 2 mines, what if there are 3? How do you know how many Zerglings to run ahead? So you run 1 ling ahead, it blew up, what do you do now? You keep running? What if there's another mine a little further ahead? Do you stop, put 1 ling ahead again, then start moving your units again? So move-stop-move-stop... that sounds to me like you're moving a lot slower a lot of a sudden, aren't you? That is my whole point. You put 1 ling in front. If there is more than 1 mine in a group, they all reveal until the first mine shoots. If your ling catches a mine, you know the Terran is wasting resources on mines and you repeat the process for every mine you find. It's not like Terran is Zerg, where 20-30s of defense can be the difference between crushing the push and dying. If the Terran is wasting supply on mines and you trip 3-6 of them without taking REAL damage, you've already won the engagement basically. Oh but I didn't kill the mine, I just triggered it. Nothing is wasted, except that Zergling I lost. Terran doesn't need to put all the mines together in 1 clump, just because I triggered one, doesn't mean I will see or trigger the one a little further ahead, unless I proceed with the same caution. If I want to actually "waste" the mine, I need detection. Which again brings me back to my point. My Zerglings now, for all practical purposes, have 2.25 move speed.
If you could waste 1 forcefield for every 1 ling you sent at a Protoss base, would that not be worth it? You wouldn't kill the sentry, but could make it useless, making it essentially 2 supply of dead weight until it gains that energy back. That's what happens when 1 marine or 1 ling detonates 1 mine, it makes that mine dead weight for 40s.
What does it take to do that if he has 10 mines around the map (20 supply)? About 3s of separating out 10 lings in a relatively stress free situation to lead the way to whatever the target is. Or you can just, idk, expand more because it's not like he can actually attack you with the mines.
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EPT
