Widow mine becomes weak as skill increases? - Page 7
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
Same for Swarm Hosts spawning locusts Not that I've actually checked since I tried zerg when I first got the beta (much like WoL I couldn't play them, like at all), but you can hold fire with the swarm hosts can't you? | ||
DBS
515 Posts
On February 16 2013 14:02 Rowrin wrote: IMO: They are good defensive unit to get early game to save gas and allow terran to focus on tech/upgrades. Besides that, widow mines are pretty much useless as skill increases and as the players progress later into the game. Their only efficient use is early game to harass/defend harass and to hold off a 7-8 minute timing. After that, if you still have a few, you stick the ones you have left to guard mineral lines (Though you cant get too close without friendly fire decimating your scvs). They are pretty much supply sinks once the mid game kicks in. Players either poke with individual units if they know you have WM's, or have some type of detection with their army. However, that said I would think that at the extremely highest levels, widow mines complement bio armies + medvacs extremely well. Players that are good at moving the mines constantly, maneuvering around the map, keeping their opponent guessing and that are able to respond to small groups of units trying to snipe mines, may be able to get a better return out of them. It is just another aspect of terran that gets worse as you get better until you cross a massive skill gap. Im not good but widow-mine tank vs. P is absolutely sick. My opponents can generally not just lose units to the widowmines due to lack of control/detection, but they are great for protecting tanks. It really isn't that difficult, just put them right in front of the tanks | ||
magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
Make 6 or so extra Overlords with speed send them in from different directions to help prevent the marines from focusing them down before they are in the widow mines range. Now I know that's rather more expensive then lings but it's far less expensive then losing your entire army no? Also it's not uncommon for even high level pros to have a few hundred extra minerals at times. A possible weakness would be It'd be entirely possible for the Terran to kill them all if he had enough marines might mean using the overlords when he's tank heavy and lings when he's marine heavy or some such. What do you think would it be worth it to use Overlords like that I mean more so then it is at the moment sometimes it happens but it seems almost more of a after thought and only one at a time then a strategy meant specifically to counter low to mid numbers of widow mines. | ||
Vlare
748 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:22 magicallypuzzled wrote: People talking about how it'd be hard to trigger the widow mine with lings if the Terran plays right got me thinking. What if the Zerg used something else to trigger them? Something that is typically used for some thing completely different? Something that recently got a seemingly useless early game buff. Overlords with speed. Make 6 or so extra Overlords with speed send them in from different directions to help prevent the marines from focusing them down before they are in the widow mines range. Now I know that's rather more expensive then lings but it's far less expensive then losing your entire army no? Also it's not uncommon for even high level pros to have a few hundred extra minerals at times. A possible weakness would be It'd be entirely possible for the Terran to kill them all if he had enough marines might mean using the overlords when he's tank heavy and lings when he's marine heavy or some such. What do you think would it be worth it to use Overlords like that I mean more so then it is at the moment sometimes it happens but it seems almost more of a after thought and only one at a time then a strategy meant specifically to counter low to mid numbers of widow mines. Because that costs 700/100 . That's a lot of ling/drone/queen and whatever else have you. Maybe in the later game when you've got a bank, sure. But in the early-midgame. You can't make that sink. You're better off sending in 1ling, or a burrowed roach or a changeling if those work. | ||
magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:25 Vlare wrote: Because that costs 700/100 . That's a lot of ling/drone/queen and whatever else have you. Maybe in the later game when you've got a bank, sure. But in the early-midgame. You can't make that sink. You're better off sending in 1ling, or a burrowed roach or a changeling if those work. too an extent it depends on how all in the terran is doesn't it? if it's basically just pressure then maybe you would have to find a different way of dealing with it I am not trying to say its an all situations fix but it might have it's place right? | ||
SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
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magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:30 SoFrOsTy wrote: Good terrain unburrow before the bait then reburrow when zerg moves in. With one second burrow time it works great. with banelings and good creep spread I would think that would be rather difficult to pull off with out getting your widow mines killed. | ||
Vlare
748 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:30 magicallypuzzled wrote: too an extent it depends on how all in the terran is doesn't it? if it's basically just pressure then maybe you would have to find a different way of dealing with it I am not trying to say its an all situations fix but it might have it's place right? If you're being all in'd maybe. It really depends on the specific situation. But I don't think it will ever become a staple. It's one of those cute things you see sometimes ![]() | ||
magicallypuzzled
United States588 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:35 Vlare wrote: If you're being all in'd maybe. It really depends on the specific situation. But I don't think it will ever become a staple. It's one of those cute things you see sometimes ![]() What I am thinking is Zergs get the 100/100 for overlord speed earlier then they usually would just as a precaution and then if they scout a situation where it'd be useful. They probably will have the time to make the extra overlords before the attack actually hits. This also lets you tailor it to how ever many mines the terran actually has. That way the cost isn't too prohibitive before hand but it is fairly easy to make the required costs latter on if they need it. Also if the Zerg is ahead like they'll want to be economy wise then the Zerg can actually come out better off maybe? | ||
tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
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EyesOnMe
57 Posts
Poll: Do you think that WM becomes weaker as players' skill increases? No (31) Yes (17) 48 total votes Your vote: Do you think that WM becomes weaker as players' skill increases? | ||
ETisME
12387 Posts
The unit has so much utility in it, it can be offensive and defensive. The only issue is that it is currently even better than tanks for zoning and therefore overlapping the roles slightly The amount of multi tasking needed to get rid of widow mines drop in late game is really high, while traditionally terran has to micro the units for the units, for mines you are just burrowing. Zerg has to defend it by either already have spores and spines (that would require no attention at all) If not, they will need to morph/find the overseer, move the drones away and wait for the overseer to come and kill it off. With the medivac speed boost and this different style of drops, terran has a really powerful multi prone drop style, taxing the multi tasking of the opponent heavily | ||
Garfailed
Netherlands409 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Ganzi rocked dem mines, super exciting play | ||
A3mercury
United States26 Posts
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
On February 18 2013 03:56 Qikz wrote: Not that I've actually checked since I tried zerg when I first got the beta (much like WoL I couldn't play them, like at all), but you can hold fire with the swarm hosts can't you? Yes. And you can hold position with mines too, but you have to actively do it with mines (1 click every second or so), but with swarm hosts its a toggle. | ||
9-BiT
United States1089 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On February 18 2013 04:35 magicallypuzzled wrote: with banelings and good creep spread I would think that would be rather difficult to pull off with out getting your widow mines killed. So in the early game the zerg has really good creep spread, expansions, a 100/100 upgrade (just in case) banelings and hundreds of extra minerals on units that arent fighting units just to handle a few widow mines? Those same widow mines that can be unburrowed and retreated if they see the OL's coming? Widow mines arent way out in front, they are near their army. On February 25 2013 23:34 EyesOnMe wrote: Poll: Do you think that WM becomes weaker as players' skill increases? No (31) Yes (17) 48 total votes Your vote: Do you think that WM becomes weaker as players' skill increases? Weaker? Yes, unquestionably. Weak? Hell no, they are still strong. | ||
Frostfire
United States419 Posts
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