EPTBeta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 43
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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Captain Mayhem
Sweden774 Posts
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dislike
Germany54 Posts
Early Tank-Pushs are now much stronger. New HSM is great. Battle Hellion with reduced AoE seems a bit weaker against mass enemies. In low numbers they've become better. Medivac change is "sad" for terrans but the right thing. cheers. | ||
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KillingVector
United States96 Posts
On January 10 2013 23:13 KamikazeDurrrp wrote: The problem's not about viability, it's about precedent. The whole point of having such upgrades in the first place was to promote a playstyle, and make it so that using that specific playstyle required an investment, thus once your investments paid off, it gave you more leeway. When I don't have to research siege tech to use siege tanks all the tension that used to be there trying to researching seige tech is immediately lost. And why should we stop at siege tanks in order to make units more viable? Why not just give roaches the speed upgrade from the beginning, it makes it easier to defend, AND gives you more offensive options in the early game. Why not just give marines their stim and combat shield upgrades from the start? Why don't we just give colossus their 9 range from the start? Waiting for colossus range is boring, and colossus obviously need more ways to be viable offensively. PLUS you can be greedy with 9 range colossus too! I mean, does it make sense to anyone that people should be allowed to access higher tech WHILE being greedy at the same time? Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of being "greedy"? And the fact that this shuts down most all-in? Again, we want to reduce the STRENGTH of all-ins, not completely remove the viability of them. I mean, I'm just shocked. I've never seen a change more antithesis to what Starcraft is supposed to be about. Is this really what it takes to achieve balance? I guess I'm just ignorant and don't know anything at this point. I agree with this. Who cares what the balance turns out to be. It's not worth sacrificing the core ideas sc is supposed to be designed around. If you keep throwing away basic principles, then you may have an easier route to balance, but the result has a greater chance of being bland. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
On January 11 2013 01:48 Rabiator wrote: You are absolutely right in this and a good way to analyze stuff scientifically is by changing only one variable in a test instead of lots. Some idiot will now retort something idiotic like "oh you only want to have one change in a patch then?", but the scientific way is to start by fixing stuff that doesnt work BEFORE adding new variables (=units) to the equasion in the first place and that would have meant finalizing the balance of WoL before even starting the beta for HotS. The problems were clearly visible and known to them, but SC2 has been shifted around in its balance rather wildly during the last few years and that is not a stable environment to add something new to. So the patches give us this feeling that they have no clue what they are doing as several past ones have shown. Maybe it is the skill of the devs, but maybe it is the lack of a stable platform to work on which makes this sort of random. So you don't think they actually test that stuff... BEFORE releasing it to the public? | ||
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KillingVector
United States96 Posts
On January 11 2013 01:48 Rabiator wrote: You are absolutely right in this and a good way to analyze stuff scientifically is by changing only one variable in a test instead of lots. Some idiot will now retort something idiotic like "oh you only want to have one change in a patch then?", but the scientific way is to start by fixing stuff that doesnt work BEFORE adding new variables (=units) to the equasion in the first place and that would have meant finalizing the balance of WoL before even starting the beta for HotS. The problems were clearly visible and known to them, but SC2 has been shifted around in its balance rather wildly during the last few years and that is not a stable environment to add something new to. So the patches give us this feeling that they have no clue what they are doing as several past ones have shown. Maybe it is the skill of the devs, but maybe it is the lack of a stable platform to work on which makes this sort of random. Not all changes can be found by changing one variable at a time. Think of the function f(x,y) = xy starting at (0,0). | ||
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pororo
2 Posts
On January 10 2013 19:33 Hylirion wrote: In the end, Blizzard had the right idea with this patch. It just needs a bit more for Terran to shine, a bit more bling... | ||
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malady
United States600 Posts
better change it back! | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aO1A5.png) | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
The reaper nerf is good,now TvT isn't reaper wars anymore,it seems that blizzard wanted to give terran some overlord or phenix type of scouting unit,well with the new speed and poor damages of the reaper its done ^^ And its a good thing imo The siege tank upgrade removal is great,as someone who like to plays macro i usually open CC first and some time i wasn't able to survive to crappy rushes,now with the upgrade removal the base is well protected quite early,give more space to the macro game. The medivac upgrade is back the old one which give just a little bit more heal,its ok i guess,since the other race don't have a new T3 damage burster. The battle hellion change seems nice but i don't use them,normal hellion FTW ! SPEED MOTHAFUCKA ! Also the raven AoE being back is awesome,the old missile had absolutely no point,it was stupid. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On January 11 2013 02:43 shid0x wrote: well,after playing a few games i'm not that unhappy after all. The reaper nerf is good,now TvT isn't reaper wars anymore,it seems that blizzard wanted to give terran some overlord or phenix type of scouting unit,well with the new speed and poor damages of the reaper its done ^^ And its a good thing imo The siege tank upgrade removal is great,as someone who like to plays macro i usually open CC first and some time i wasn't able to survive to crappy rushes,now with the upgrade removal the base is well protected quite early,give more space to the macro game. The medivac upgrade is back the old one which give just a little bit more heal,its ok i guess,since the other race don't have a new T3 damage burster. The battle hellion change seems nice but i don't use them,normal hellion FTW ! SPEED MOTHAFUCKA ! Also the raven AoE being back is awesome,the old missile had absolutely no point,it was stupid. See this happens when people rage here and then they actually play the game and realise it's actually not that bad, lol.. :D Not to be offensive, I'm not saying you whining here, but this is what majority people should do before saying shit.. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 11 2013 02:56 Everlong wrote: See this happens when people rage here and then they actually play the game and realise it's actually not that bad, lol.. :D Not to be offensive, I'm not saying you whining here, but this is what majority people should do before saying shit.. Agreed. I like the change for the reaper to early game scouting, rather than a unit for an all-in and nothing else. Paying a little gas for a ton of information is pretty awesome. And I like that seige tanks are now awesome on demand, allowing for players to bring the fear of a timing attack or just defend to macro up. The fewer marines I see, the happier I am. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On January 11 2013 02:56 Everlong wrote: See this happens when people rage here and then they actually play the game and realise it's actually not that bad, lol.. :D Not to be offensive, I'm not saying you whining here, but this is what majority people should do before saying shit.. Most of the "raging" is coming from Zergs who fear tank pushes and Protoss who fear quick widow mines. | ||
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
they should just make tanks a little bit stronger goddamn, they cost 3!!! supply | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 11 2013 03:10 Killmouse wrote: no actually i like the whole patch ,except for the siege removal, its just stupid, its not sc2 anymore without the upgrade and also every terran will go now for super faster tank push in TVT they should just make tanks a little bit stronger goddamn, they cost 3!!! supply Immortals are 4 supply and cost way more than a seige tank, and get killed by everything that kills seige tanks(including other immortals). Not to say the immortal is bad, but it is no colossi(which cost a sentry more). I still fear well set up seige tanks. Poorly set up seige tanks, on the other hand, make me laugh. | ||
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On January 11 2013 03:30 Duncaaaaaan wrote: I wonder if any of you idiots jumping on the HURR LATE GAME TVP ISNT CHANGED bandwagon have considered the thought of applying pressure with your earlier siege tank? Yeah this, since you have free 250/250 for siege tech and blue flame basically, you are absolutely able to kill Protoss who is going for Fleet Beacon too early.. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On January 11 2013 01:48 Rabiator wrote: You are absolutely right in this and a good way to analyze stuff scientifically is by changing only one variable in a test instead of lots. Some idiot will now retort something idiotic like "oh you only want to have one change in a patch then?", but the scientific way is to start by fixing stuff that doesnt work BEFORE adding new variables (=units) to the equasion in the first place and that would have meant finalizing the balance of WoL before even starting the beta for HotS. The problems were clearly visible and known to them, but SC2 has been shifted around in its balance rather wildly during the last few years and that is not a stable environment to add something new to. So the patches give us this feeling that they have no clue what they are doing as several past ones have shown. Maybe it is the skill of the devs, but maybe it is the lack of a stable platform to work on which makes this sort of random. Maybe you get the feeling. I get the feeling that the changes are fitting for a beta where more radical changes don't hurt. Just because you feel the changes made by professionals with years of experience in game development are random, does not mean that they are random. I think it is more likely that actual good game design is more complex than it looks to a layman. | ||
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