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Reaper change seems somewhat strange.
You can now get a single Reaper out earlier for scouting which is nice but the Reaper still costs a massive 50 gas.
This pretty much means you cannot Reactor them without massively delaying your tech.
Dealing only 8 damage, which will get applied twice to armor (ugh) means the DPS will be abysmal, especially for 50 gas.
They should've gone to 6 or 7 raw damage instead of going from 4 (+5 light) straight down to 4.
I highly doubt anyone will build a lot of Reapers now outside the first one you can now build earlier to scout with.
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On January 10 2013 19:09 Elp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units. Good luck remaxing on reapers, they have a 45 second build time. You can remax on marines twice as fast. As for spending gas late game: If the new HSM is any good, people will spend excess gas on Ravens.
Re-maxing on marine only late game has been proven to be unreliable way to regain a stable footing once a late game engagement ends in stalemate.
Assuming a stalemate engagement lategame (both armies wipe each other out), and the re-maxed army meet again mid-map
Each 90s, 8 rax can either pump out 32 marines and a few medivacs or 16 reapers.
In that same manner, 5-base Zerg can pump out 80+ lings, a 4-9 infestors which basically roflstomp marine/medivac. No way to dodge fungal, lings surround, gg.
With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab, forcing the advancing army to keep to their side of the map.
Against Protoss, it was a similar situation, re-maxing with two cycles of zealots, 1-2 templars for storm and some archons, it's pretty much gg.
The high speed, regen and reactor'd mean that mass reapers can force a base trade unlike marine/medivac which is pretty much shutdown by tier 2 units.
Except that when both late game engagements end up with no units remaining
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On January 10 2013 19:18 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 19:02 BerthaG wrote:
Give P scan on nexus and ok then, lol a mule, save you the game instant detection anywhere at any time in the game. Whereas P as to teck to robo with slow detection or stargate for oracle consuming mana i guess sure.... Sure, then give terran chronoboost, but then dont complain when we might slightly speed up 1-1-1 and similar strats, while your defense is enormously slowed down.
You are mixing everything look like a lot of people drunk too much the 31 december.
I am saying that P need quick detection(without forcing obs or anything....), What if Isay if terran need detection they need to go mech.... lol that exactly what happen to P. What a fabulous RTS, and they want to mix hellbat to bioball .... So stupid again.
Look T as Banchies and now mine and P as dt, compare both path and follow up and you will understant or not (that you problem I can not help you then) that the race with the most possibilities in term of clock unit as also the best response. The logical will be the opposit.
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In the end, Blizzard had the right idea with this patch. It just needs a bit more for Terran to shine, a bit more bling...
Terran
Reaper
Train Reaper no longer requires a Tech Lab Addon. The Battlefield Awareness passive ability has been removed from the game.Movement speed increased from 3.38 to 3.75.The Nitro Packs upgrade has been removed from the game.P-45 Gauss Pistol weapon damage decreased from 4 +5 vs. Light to 4.
New Tech Lab upgrade: Real O.G. Renames Reaper to Reapah. Reapahs now replace the Gauss pistols with black market earth-made MAC10's, and hold them sideways. Reduces damage to 1 (+1 to light) but sprays aoe damage in an area of 4 around the target.
Hellbat
Hellbat upgrade removed from game.
Helliac
Added Helliac upgrade to the hellion. Turns into a slick ride that plays loud gangster music, fearing enemy harvesters in a 4.5 aoe radius around the vehicle. Can load a reapah to turn up the volume and increase fear radius to 6. When loaded with reapah, this unit has cliff walk due to pimpin hydraulics.
Medivac
Caduceus ReactorNo longer improves the healing rate of Medivacs.Upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 and 110 seconds to 100/100 and 80 seconds.Emergency Thrusters ability renamed Ignite Afterburners. Infernal pre-igniter upgrade now allows the afterburners to do 10 (+10 to light) damage to any units in a 10 line behind the Medivac.
Raven
Seeker missile removed.
Added Seafood Missile. Within 3 seconds, deploys a chique seafood bar that will feed incorrectly prepared pufferfish to any nearby enemy biological unit within a 7 radius.
Siege Tank
Siege Tanks no longer require an upgrade in order to enter Siege Mode.
New Tech Lab upgrade added: 70 Inch Rims. Adds some sweet wheels to the siege tank, that have so much shine that they give attacking melee units a 50% miss chance.
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@BerthaG, you are seriously accusing me of drinking too much while making such a post yourself?
Detection on both observers (obviously) and oracles allow toss to have detection on both their tech paths.
With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab
Well that is hoping he goes ling and not any other unit, since lings are pretty much the only unit you can kill with those reapers. Also the moment you try to backstab him he wins since his lings simply move him to level your base. And what are your reapers going to do? Trying to tickle his spinecrawlers to death? Honestly if you think he does a ling remax just make hellbats. If you got too much gas make ravens, which can now cast seeker missile directly after being produced.
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On January 10 2013 19:28 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 19:09 Elp wrote:On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units. Good luck remaxing on reapers, they have a 45 second build time. You can remax on marines twice as fast. As for spending gas late game: If the new HSM is any good, people will spend excess gas on Ravens. Re-maxing on marine only late game has been proven to be unreliable way to regain a stable footing once a late game engagement ends in stalemate. Assuming a stalemate engagement lategame (both armies wipe each other out), and the re-maxed army meet again mid-map Each 90s, 8 rax can either pump out 32 marines and a few medivacs or 16 reapers. In that same manner, 5-base Zerg can pump out 80+ lings, a 4-9 infestors which basically roflstomp marine/medivac. No way to dodge fungal, lings surround, gg. With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab, forcing the advancing army to keep to their side of the map. Against Protoss, it was a similar situation, re-maxing with two cycles of zealots, 1-2 templars for storm and some archons, it's pretty much gg. The high speed, regen and reactor'd mean that mass reapers can force a base trade unlike marine/medivac which is pretty much shutdown by tier 2 units. Except that when both late game engagements end up with no units remaining
Yeah, while Reapers are shutdown by Tier 1 units now, lol.
No, seriously? Did you miss the fact that they deal only 2x4 damage now, instead of 2x4 vs non-light and 2x9 vs light. They no longer kill Workers fast, or deal with Zealots, Hellions, Marines and Zerglings. 32 Marines will eat lings, but you will need Infestors to counter them, and with Medivacs and good splitting, even Infestors may not be enough to kill all those Marines. On the other hand, Reapers now have lower speed than Zerglings, and lower damage than Marines, they will get eaten by Zerglings alone.
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On January 10 2013 19:35 Sissors wrote:@BerthaG, you are seriously accusing me of drinking too much while making such a post yourself? Detection on both observers (obviously) and oracles allow toss to have detection on both their tech paths. Show nested quote +With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab Well that is hoping he goes ling and not any other unit, since lings are pretty much the only unit you can kill with those reapers. Also the moment you try to backstab him he wins since his lings simply move him to level your base. And what are your reapers going to do? Trying to tickle his spinecrawlers to death? Honestly if you think he does a ling remax just make hellbats. If you got too much gas make ravens, which can now cast seeker missile directly after being produced.
Reapers are no longer strong vs lings. The reaper is a scout now. Maybe there is some form of all in possible that relies on the higher speed and the possibility of building more reapers earlier. But i doubt, that that is the case.
The reaper is not a combat unit especially after this patch. With equal upgrades stimed rines do more dps against every unit, have a longer range and are faster and cheaper to produce.
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Let's be honest, reapers were only used in TvT, and everyone found them annoying, don't complain too much or they might be back ..
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On January 10 2013 19:36 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 19:28 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On January 10 2013 19:09 Elp wrote:On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units. Good luck remaxing on reapers, they have a 45 second build time. You can remax on marines twice as fast. As for spending gas late game: If the new HSM is any good, people will spend excess gas on Ravens. Re-maxing on marine only late game has been proven to be unreliable way to regain a stable footing once a late game engagement ends in stalemate. Assuming a stalemate engagement lategame (both armies wipe each other out), and the re-maxed army meet again mid-map Each 90s, 8 rax can either pump out 32 marines and a few medivacs or 16 reapers. In that same manner, 5-base Zerg can pump out 80+ lings, a 4-9 infestors which basically roflstomp marine/medivac. No way to dodge fungal, lings surround, gg. With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab, forcing the advancing army to keep to their side of the map. Against Protoss, it was a similar situation, re-maxing with two cycles of zealots, 1-2 templars for storm and some archons, it's pretty much gg. The high speed, regen and reactor'd mean that mass reapers can force a base trade unlike marine/medivac which is pretty much shutdown by tier 2 units. Except that when both late game engagements end up with no units remaining Yeah, while Reapers are shutdown by Tier 1 units now, lol. No, seriously? Did you miss the fact that they deal only 2x4 damage now, instead of 2x4 vs non-light and 2x9 vs light. They no longer kill Workers fast, or deal with Zealots, Hellions, Marines and Zerglings. 32 Marines will eat lings, but you will need Infestors to counter them, and with Medivacs and good splitting, even Infestors may not be enough to kill all those Marines. On the other hand, Reapers now have lower speed than Zerglings, and lower damage than Marines, they will get eaten by Zerglings alone.
You should just ignore this guy. Its obvious from his posts that he is a troll.
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i cant believe they arent doing something about overseers and nydus. From the beginning they have been saying they are boring and need fixing/updating
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Reapers useless and TvT gets even more stale, ty Blizzard.
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On January 10 2013 19:28 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 19:09 Elp wrote:On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units. Good luck remaxing on reapers, they have a 45 second build time. You can remax on marines twice as fast. As for spending gas late game: If the new HSM is any good, people will spend excess gas on Ravens. Re-maxing on marine only late game has been proven to be unreliable way to regain a stable footing once a late game engagement ends in stalemate. Assuming a stalemate engagement lategame (both armies wipe each other out), and the re-maxed army meet again mid-map Each 90s, 8 rax can either pump out 32 marines and a few medivacs or 16 reapers. In that same manner, 5-base Zerg can pump out 80+ lings, a 4-9 infestors which basically roflstomp marine/medivac. No way to dodge fungal, lings surround, gg. With reapers and preemptive scans, reapers could at least dodge an FG or two, snipe some lings and even swing around to do a backstab, forcing the advancing army to keep to their side of the map. Against Protoss, it was a similar situation, re-maxing with two cycles of zealots, 1-2 templars for storm and some archons, it's pretty much gg. The high speed, regen and reactor'd mean that mass reapers can force a base trade unlike marine/medivac which is pretty much shutdown by tier 2 units. Except that when both late game engagements end up with no units remaining
Ehm, start up HotS, and try to fight 80 zerglings with 16 reapers. Now that is a roflstomp, zerg barely loses 20 zerglings. 32 marines with medivacs will beat 80 lings.
Besides, that is IF zerg remaxes on zerglings. What if he remaxes on roaches? Yes, you can kite them but you can't actually kill them because the reaper does very little damage. They'll just kill your base.
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On January 10 2013 19:33 Hylirion wrote:In the end, Blizzard had the right idea with this patch. It just needs a bit more for Terran to shine, a bit more bling... Show nested quote +Terran
Reaper
Train Reaper no longer requires a Tech Lab Addon. The Battlefield Awareness passive ability has been removed from the game.Movement speed increased from 3.38 to 3.75.The Nitro Packs upgrade has been removed from the game.P-45 Gauss Pistol weapon damage decreased from 4 +5 vs. Light to 4.
New Tech Lab upgrade: Real O.G. Renames Reaper to Reapah. Reapahs now replace the Gauss pistols with black market earth-made MAC10's, and hold them sideways. Reduces damage to 1 (+1 to light) but sprays aoe damage in an area of 4 around the target.
Hellbat
Hellbat upgrade removed from game.
Helliac
Added Helliac upgrade to the hellion. Turns into a slick ride that plays loud gangster music, fearing enemy harvesters in a 4.5 aoe radius around the vehicle. Can load a reapah to turn up the volume and increase fear radius to 6. When loaded with reapah, this unit has cliff walk due to pimpin hydraulics.
Medivac
Caduceus ReactorNo longer improves the healing rate of Medivacs.Upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 and 110 seconds to 100/100 and 80 seconds.Emergency Thrusters ability renamed Ignite Afterburners. Infernal pre-igniter upgrade now allows the afterburners to do 10 (+10 to light) damage to any units in a 10 line behind the Medivac.
Raven
Seeker missile removed.
Added Seafood Missile. Within 3 seconds, deploys a chique seafood bar that will feed incorrectly prepared pufferfish to any nearby enemy biological unit within a 7 radius.
Siege Tank
Siege Tanks no longer require an upgrade in order to enter Siege Mode.
New Tech Lab upgrade added: 70 Inch Rims. Adds some sweet wheels to the siege tank, that have so much shine that they give attacking melee units a 50% miss chance.
YMMD THX
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I would like to see some videos regarding this patch, it seems all match ups will change and things might become more interesting.
Time will tell.. However, I really think thats HoTS release should/might be postponed. Blizzard seems to be on a good path but time seems too short for such a hard tuning needed for this wonderful game. 
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wow, reapers are really really really bad now :D the only purpose now can be scouting, harassing mineral lines etc....wow its just so bad :D, new raven is pretty cool, i actually dig it. have to test mech openings but i dont think the siege upgrade will change much, hellbat seems too strong
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On January 10 2013 19:33 Hylirion wrote:In the end, Blizzard had the right idea with this patch. It just needs a bit more for Terran to shine, a bit more bling... Show nested quote +Terran
Reaper
Train Reaper no longer requires a Tech Lab Addon. The Battlefield Awareness passive ability has been removed from the game.Movement speed increased from 3.38 to 3.75.The Nitro Packs upgrade has been removed from the game.P-45 Gauss Pistol weapon damage decreased from 4 +5 vs. Light to 4.
New Tech Lab upgrade: Real O.G. Renames Reaper to Reapah. Reapahs now replace the Gauss pistols with black market earth-made MAC10's, and hold them sideways. Reduces damage to 1 (+1 to light) but sprays aoe damage in an area of 4 around the target.
Hellbat
Hellbat upgrade removed from game.
Helliac
Added Helliac upgrade to the hellion. Turns into a slick ride that plays loud gangster music, fearing enemy harvesters in a 4.5 aoe radius around the vehicle. Can load a reapah to turn up the volume and increase fear radius to 6. When loaded with reapah, this unit has cliff walk due to pimpin hydraulics.
Medivac
Caduceus ReactorNo longer improves the healing rate of Medivacs.Upgrade cost decreased from 150/150 and 110 seconds to 100/100 and 80 seconds.Emergency Thrusters ability renamed Ignite Afterburners. Infernal pre-igniter upgrade now allows the afterburners to do 10 (+10 to light) damage to any units in a 10 line behind the Medivac.
Raven
Seeker missile removed.
Added Seafood Missile. Within 3 seconds, deploys a chique seafood bar that will feed incorrectly prepared pufferfish to any nearby enemy biological unit within a 7 radius.
Siege Tank
Siege Tanks no longer require an upgrade in order to enter Siege Mode.
New Tech Lab upgrade added: 70 Inch Rims. Adds some sweet wheels to the siege tank, that have so much shine that they give attacking melee units a 50% miss chance.
That made me laugh out loud! 
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Ready to laught how balaced this shit is:
Little comparison between time warp and fungal:
Time warp : 75 mana like fungal: Effect : Slow down unit vs Stop unit and damage them( possibility to chain fungal).... lol
The Time warp is so up they decided to put it on Mother so you can just though 2-4 if max mana. LOL LOL LOL
Blizard should hire a P player in their team so he can prevent from this wrong changes.
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I am so glad, that they removed the fucking detection from the mothershipcore. Now i can at least defend the overly strong allins lie 1 base stalker with some widowmines. And i think that is why they moved the detection. Imo it is okay because you can scout with halucination or msc what the terran is going to do in order to know if detection is needed.
That was imo a good change...but the other ones...sigh
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On January 10 2013 20:19 BerthaG wrote:
Ready to laught how balaced this shit is:
Little comparison between time warp and fungal:
Time warp : 75 mana like fungal: Effect : Slow down unit vs Stop unit and damage them( possibility to chain fungal).... lol
The Time warp is so up they decided to put it on Mother so you can just though 2-4 if max mana. LOL LOL LOL
Blizard should hire a P player in their team so he can prevent from this wrong changes.
LOL LOL AND THEY'RE NOTHING ALIKE AND CAN'T BE COMPARED BUT LET'S WHINE ANYWAY LOL
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On January 10 2013 20:37 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 20:19 BerthaG wrote:
Ready to laught how balaced this shit is:
Little comparison between time warp and fungal:
Time warp : 75 mana like fungal: Effect : Slow down unit vs Stop unit and damage them( possibility to chain fungal).... lol
The Time warp is so up they decided to put it on Mother so you can just though 2-4 if max mana. LOL LOL LOL
Blizard should hire a P player in their team so he can prevent from this wrong changes. LOL LOL AND THEY'RE NOTHING ALIKE AND CAN'T BE COMPARED BUT LET'S WHINE ANYWAY LOL
I agree with him, blizzard should just make every race the same besides the units/abilitys names, they should be different cause then you can go for the race that sounds cooler.
And balance whine will get even funnier
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EPT
