EPT
Sounds like a weird change to me. Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 35
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ShotgunMike
Sweden241 Posts
Sounds like a weird change to me. | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
Time warp on MSC is interesting. The early FFE MSC/zlot/stalker pressure already taxes my build order execution enough to make them a potent attack. I guess as P you'd want to go to main with the MSC, time warp a mineral line, and then return to an exp to meet up with zealots and stalker and be a general pain in the hive's ass. Fungal nerfed, ok, makes sense, it's a bit silly with fungoids taking apart tanks I guess.. I really don't use infestors much anymore anyway. (but mb I should in zvz?) | ||
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GorGor
78 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:12 gronnelg wrote: Mech needs a stronger midgame, bio needs a stronger lategame. Hellbat now does insane damage, and can be used in mech midgame (and later, obviously), and bio lategame (and earlier obviously). Does the hellbat fix these two problems? Any opinions? Blizzard is taking the right approach, trying to get mineral mech better. Terran works because of mules, hence, minerals. They try to push mech onto this winning road as well. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:09 Cyro wrote: I guess you wasnt around in the second half of 2011 when toss had 1 player in ro16 GSL mainly because of 1-1-1 imbalance? Im a little curious as to what terran could do with a couple of really fast tanks and bunkers TvP if mothership core doesnt shut it down I guess you werent around in all of 2012. Honestly I really dont understand why you talk about 2011, when I was talking about 'now', so not over a year ago. Blizzard is taking the right approach, trying to get mineral mech better. Terran works because of mules, hence, minerals. They try to push mech onto this winning road as well. Seems to be to me more they try to push thor/hellbat deathballs, maybe because it looks more like all the other deathballs they expect it to be balanced easier. | ||
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
Let's start with the Reaper changes. Now we can spam 2 reapers at once from a reactored barracks. But now they only deal 8 damage against a light unit with 0 armor. That means they are only as strong as 1 reaper pre patch, while costing twice as much and being twice as hard to micro since losing 1 reaper will decrease the dps of your "reaper ball". I don't think that it will address anything at all really, aside that TvT early game will no longer be a reaper war...maybe. Then the absurd Siege Tank change. I don't think that removing the tech upgrade is going to address anything, really. It will only make TvT a LOT more absurd with 1 base tank all ins and make tank timings in TvZ come a lot earlier. Also, this also means that Terran will be safe against most Baneling all ins from Zerg, assuming he can just get at least 1 tank from their factory. Maybe it will also make TvP tank pushes a bit more viable. But I don't really think so  Raven changes are awesome. I can see them being a lot more used in TvT and TvZ for its seeker missle and its detection. Its sad to see the Medivac healing upgrade go. I really liked that upgrade for some reason, made bio a lot stronger, apparently to the point where it seems op. Well, I'm done talking, time to put the changes to the test. | ||
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CYFAWS
Sweden275 Posts
also reapers lack of armor penetration will make it even worse late..? predicting tank buff will open up new versions of 111 while not doing shit to important stuff | ||
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straycat
230 Posts
Disclaimer: TvP which I know nothing about. | ||
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mannerless
Brazil86 Posts
I'm a meching only player (low Master in WOL) and I very much approve of these changes, even though I was also hoping for better anti-air but I suppose Blizzard wants us to use Vikings. I'm sure other more-known/skilled players such as Lyyna and HTOMario will like this patch a lot. One of the main problems I had in HOTS was opening against Protoss without knowing what the hell they were doing since now there's SO MANY all-ins they could do and still be safe/cut corners. Now I can actually open Banshees once again or just get a glimpse of what's going on(thx to Reapers) without auto-dying due to a BO loss because I expected DTs instead of Oracles. Still I don't know how to fight mass Tempests, but maybe with these changes it will get harder for Protoss to get mass Tempests in the first place, since they can't just play as greedy as they want anymore while leaving Terran completely in the dark. Good patch! EDIT: To all the clueless people bitching about 1-1-1, I'm quite sure that the 13range-super-fast-attacking-Nexus + new MSC can handle that very well as long as you MICRO. 1-1-1 will never be as strong as it once was thanks to the MSC. Zerg-allins are weaker now but I don't care because fuck zerg | ||
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TheDraken
United States640 Posts
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ultratorr
Canada332 Posts
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mannerless
Brazil86 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:30 TheDraken wrote: omg it's the return of the 111 with this patch. Are you stupid or just in wood league? How is it the return of 1-1-1 when you have a 13range Nexus that can snipe tanks? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:26 CYFAWS wrote: i think this is bullshit. usually liked the patches but not this at all. the abuse factor of the reaper skyrockets, sure they don't shred light stuff as much but the old wolbeta opening of pinning P on one base with mass reaper (which was rather bad, then) has to kinda work now, one MSC can not def 2 bases against it also reapers lack of armor penetration will make it even worse late..? predicting tank buff will open up new versions of 111 while not doing shit to important stuff One MsC cant defend two bases, one MsC + 1 stalker can. Stalkers hardcounter reapers so hard it is suicide to mass them against toss unless he goes nexus first. And then it already works with WoL reapers, and not only that, I rather have WoL reapers where I can take out cannons being built and pylons, than HotS reapers. And imo tank buff will have a larger impact on defense than offense, so I really am not that worried about it. Attacking with 1 tank just isnt a really great idea. By the time you got two tanks, especially at your enemies base, you also got siege tech, and you are limitted in production speed by number of siege tanks. It means you can start stim/combat shield earlier, or another medivac, but I dont see that as earth shattering changes for 1-1-1. On defense however it means you can immediatly siege up your first tank, that is a much larger effect and helps 1 rax FE alot more imo than 1-1-1. Now I can actually open Banshees once again or just get a glimpse of what's going on(thx to Reapers) without auto-dying due to a BO loss because I expected DTs instead of Oracles. Educate me please what this patch does to help your banshee opening vs oracles (so toss air play). | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On January 10 2013 07:44 Chloroplaste wrote: Is this a joke ? Reaper 3.8speed proxy barrack without reactor every game vs low level = insta win. Reaper are better early game and more useless late game what are they doing. They removed the insteresting passive too. Reapers can be massed like lings now? Hmmm... interesting change. | ||
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Henk
Netherlands578 Posts
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Chloroplaste
France281 Posts
On January 10 2013 10:27 ejozl wrote: Oh gush this Balance update is sooooooo good! I've been suggesting for months to remove Tech Lab requirement for Reapers, it really allows for gameplay to sprout forth. Now it's not only an early game unit, but more so a late game unit, totally spicing Bio play up, with even more harass opportunities which Bio is all about and the cost comes from Gas, the resource that always go up to 1-2k in lategame PvT's. For those of you that have seen QXC and Thorzain play around with this lategame, you know what I talk about, when I say it's freaking awesome! Hellbats are now much more maverick units, rather than being only the support that Siege Tanks require. Medivacs were just OP before. Raven we will see, but single target damage spell, was kinda silly. I'm a little weary of the Siege Tank buff, since Mechs only strength vs Toss in WoL is some kind of weird push, this will buff those pushes, but not really help Mech in all the other situations where it just lacks vs Toss. Envision on Oracle, should've been Revelation now detects, but this is great, since atm, we as Toss just don't care if opponent goes invis units. Mothership is now viable again, but not great, which is what they're aiming for, so amazing! Fungal change is kinda big, this means Voidrays are now an even bigger pest vs Zerg, hope people realize this. But it's good that they're nerfing Fungal. So you are the reason of reaper's change, let's all BURN him TT ! That's totally wrong that reaper change is better in late game with 4x2 attack and hellion speed by default. Now you just can have thim really faster, and will be even more a pain to kill. | ||
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mannerless
Brazil86 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:36 Sissors wrote: Educate me please what this patch does to help your banshee opening vs oracles (so toss air play). vs Oracle play? It doesn't help, I get screwed if Toss opens Oracle and I open Banshee, but before this patch opening Banshee was useless in harassing 99% of the situations because MSC shuts it down COMPLETELY, now Protoss needs either a robo OR an oracle to shut it down, instead of a unit that required Cybernetics Core and costs 100/100. And with the new reaper it I can actually scout the Protoss to know what he's doing instead of COMPLETELY GUESSING if he's going Oracles, DTs, or some sort of 1base-all-in with a combination of units, this also means that the protoss can't be safe against EVERYTHING the Terran does early game while still playing as greedy as they wish. EDIT: It's funny that a lot of people are raging when I bet most of them don't even play mech (or even Terran), I think this is a good patch, I don't think mech is super good now but I think it's way more consistant, especially as far as openings go. I can't wait for Lyyna to put up his thoughts on this. | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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submarine
Germany290 Posts
Reaper: -They are far better as scout now and require a lower investment. Maybe we will see them used to snipe creep tumors now. With their new speed slow lings wont catch them even on creep. Good players will be able to have them alive out on the map for quite a long time in every match-up. Tanks: -This change will stabilize a lot of Terran openings, in every match-up. If a terran sniffs out that a timing or all in is coming producing tanks will now always be a good idea. The investment in tanks as early game defense will now be lower and far more effective. Building a single reactive tank will win Terrans quite a few games. The reaper and tank change combined are very similar to the overlord and queen buff in WoL! Early game scouting and defense are far stronger now. This will allow Terrans to cut corners and have a stronger mid- and lategame. Especially now with better Ravens and a far easier transition to them. | ||
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mannerless
Brazil86 Posts
On January 10 2013 18:47 submarine wrote: A few thoughts: Reaper: -They are far better as scout now and require a lower investment. Maybe we will see them used to snipe creep tumors now. With their new speed slow lings wont catch them even on creep. Good players will be able to have them alive out on the map for quite a long time in every match-up. Tanks: -This change will stabilize a lot of Terran openings, in every match-up. If a terran sniffs out that a timing or all in is coming producing tanks will now always be a good idea. The investment in tanks as early game defense will now be lower and far more effective. Building a single reactive tank will win Terrans quite a few games. The reaper and tank change combined are very similar to the overlord and queen buff in WoL! Early game scouting and defense are far stronger now. This will allow Terrans to cut corners and have a stronger mid- and lategame. Especially now with better Ravens and a far easier transition to them. YES! EXACTLY! Finally someone gets it! Yet still people think this stuff is meaningless! I've been meching-only for quite a while and I like this patch a lot, Blizzard did a great job! | ||
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