• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:11
CET 13:11
KST 21:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!44$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon! RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Where's CardinalAllin/Jukado the mapmaker? [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Learning my new SC2 hotkey…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1122 users

Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 36

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
1054 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 53 Next
BerthaG
Profile Joined December 2012
France74 Posts
January 10 2013 09:48 GMT
#701
HOTS order : cancelled. Did they even try the game before lunching patch like that. Free detection lol what is scan for terran??
Never surrender
mannerless
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil86 Posts
January 10 2013 09:49 GMT
#702
On January 10 2013 18:48 BerthaG wrote:
HOTS order : cancelled. Did they even try the game before lunching patch like that. Free detection lol what is scan for terran??


Scanning costs a MULE which are very very valuable early game.
lurking the forums since 2003
Sissors
Profile Joined March 2012
1395 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 09:53:32
January 10 2013 09:51 GMT
#703
On January 10 2013 18:44 mannerless wrote:
EDIT: It's funny that a lot of people are raging when I bet most of them don't even play mech (or even Terran), I think this is a good patch, I don't think mech is super good now but I think it's way more consistant, especially as far as openings go. I can't wait for Lyyna to put up his thoughts on this.

I play mech against toss. I think it is a bad patch. It has some good stuff, but imo blizzard is just really going in the wrong direction. They are boosting thor/hellbat deathballs, not positional tank play.

I do like mech openings become better without free detection for toss, but imo siege tanks just need a flat damage boost.

HOTS order : cancelled. Did they even try the game before lunching patch like that. Free detection lol what is scan for terran??

Something that costs 270 minerals roughly and detects in one area. Tbh I would have decreased the detection time to something like 10 seconds and kept it on the MsC. But right now casting detection on MsC doesnt cost anything, and lasts so long you can sweep half the map from any cloaked units.
SSVnormandy
Profile Joined July 2012
France392 Posts
January 10 2013 09:52 GMT
#704
definitively the remove of tank upgrade will allow to counter 1-1-1 in TvT with that buff 1 rax expo with bunker into double gas bio tank transition seems pretty safe. Tested it yesterday vs 2 consecutive 1-1-1 player and work good. Just tempo with 2 bunkers and your fine
Battlecruisers.... Just Battlecruisers...
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
January 10 2013 09:52 GMT
#705
On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll


Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units.
Cauterize the area
Hattori_Hanzo
Profile Joined October 2010
Singapore1229 Posts
January 10 2013 09:54 GMT
#706
On January 10 2013 08:07 Gamegene wrote:
OH MY GOD. I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING....

REACTOR REAPERS...

why blizzard WHY.


Because late game, bio-Terrans have no way to quickly spend excess gas.
Cauterize the area
Sissors
Profile Joined March 2012
1395 Posts
January 10 2013 09:55 GMT
#707
On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll


Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units.

Which cost a ton of gas and are completely useless against buildings and most units. Honestly the situation must be pretty hopeless before I dump 2000 gas on reapers. At least if I do that in WoL I could level the opponents base.
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
January 10 2013 09:55 GMT
#708
On January 10 2013 18:33 mannerless wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 18:30 TheDraken wrote:
omg it's the return of the 111 with this patch.


Are you stupid or just in wood league? How is it the return of 1-1-1 when you have a 13range Nexus that can snipe tanks?


WOOD LEAGUE! HAHAHAHAHAHA
??
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
January 10 2013 09:56 GMT
#709
On January 10 2013 18:23 neozxa wrote:
Then the absurd Siege Tank change. I don't think that removing the tech upgrade is going to address anything, really. It will only make TvT a LOT more absurd with 1 base tank all ins and make tank timings in TvZ come a lot earlier.


More or less this. The tank will remain below subpar until it gets a damage and/or supply adjustment.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
January 10 2013 09:57 GMT
#710
On January 10 2013 18:54 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 08:07 Gamegene wrote:
OH MY GOD. I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING....

REACTOR REAPERS...

why blizzard WHY.


Because late game, bio-Terrans have no way to quickly spend excess gas.

Reapers without good damage are not combat units, no matter how fast they are. You won't spend tons of gas and supply on something that is completely useless in the late game. You want few of the at the most in the early/mid/late game.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Novacute
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia313 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 10:03:00
January 10 2013 09:58 GMT
#711
On January 10 2013 18:54 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 08:07 Gamegene wrote:
OH MY GOD. I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING....

REACTOR REAPERS...

why blizzard WHY.


Because late game, bio-Terrans have no way to quickly spend excess gas.


Lol. Yep and reapers are terrible late game units. I'm not sure why blizzard is giving us an option to spend our late game gas on a unit that loses alot of its effectiveness (no longer has bonus light damage) for 50 gas each. Might as well just inly spend that 50 minerals for better dps (rine) and with survivalbility. In a late game scenario reapers are the worst units u can pump out 4x2 dmg from a rax.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
January 10 2013 09:59 GMT
#712
On January 10 2013 17:01 Asturas wrote:Blizzard, please, understand: Terran does not need changes in early game. We need to have something for late game!


Without commenting on the changes themselves, early game changes lead to late-game changes. Queen range? Overlord speed buff?

Removing the siege tank upgrade drastically changes your mineral/gas investment early on. Think how big a change gasless openings in ZvX turned out to be - how much more economy Zergs could support. It changes what Terran is capable of in the early game, which imposes new restrictions on your opponent, which feeds through to the rest of the game.

TL;DR: we should probably play the game for more than 5 minutes to see how this patch shakes out

Tangential point: the tone of the HotS forum is very offputting right now: one angry, contemptuous, humourless, bitter post after another (not singling out the post I replied to, by the way). And no, it's not 'justified' because you disagree with the changes or you're struggling to play a particular style. It's rude and selfish and it gets everyone down including yourself. If you're on holiday with friends and it's raining out, you don't bitch about the weather all day.

Speaking for myself, I'd love to read a bit less "Reaper change retarded; thank's Blizzard another nerf for Terran" and a bit more "A friend and I spent last night trying out reaper openers, and we found that while the scouting is still useful, making more than one doesn't induce a big enough deviation to make it worth diverting minerals into gas or gas away from factory / upgrades. Has anyone else been able to make them work? I think they should maybe get their anti-structure grenades back, now that they don't counter light units so hard. With that, and their increased base speed/regen, and the fact you can reactor them out, late-game reaper raids could be really viable too."

Or we can pretend we live in a world where calling people stupid and useless makes them work harder, care more, and listen more closely to what we say. It's never worked before but maybe it will this time.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
BerthaG
Profile Joined December 2012
France74 Posts
January 10 2013 10:02 GMT
#713
Give P scan on nexus and ok then, lol a mule, save you the game instant detection anywhere at any time in the game. Whereas P as to teck to robo with slow detection or stargate for oracle consuming mana i guess sure.... WTF they want so much to make bio viable, why should not be the same with gateway units ??? Again a f-king mine on prob and it is BG, that happen so quick. Really I will just stay on WOL untill this look like to a balanced game. Vortex remove, so now when ability are wrong the just delete it fine delete fungal so... Try it least new ability, lol Mother unique last teck tree for what ? nothing .... I think they made those changes while they were completely drunk from new year.

User was warned for this post
Never surrender
Kryt0s
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany209 Posts
January 10 2013 10:04 GMT
#714
Those changes all seem really strange and random...
drkcid
Profile Joined October 2012
Spain196 Posts
January 10 2013 10:04 GMT
#715
On January 10 2013 18:57 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 18:54 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
On January 10 2013 08:07 Gamegene wrote:
OH MY GOD. I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING....

REACTOR REAPERS...

why blizzard WHY.


Because late game, bio-Terrans have no way to quickly spend excess gas.

Reapers without good damage are not combat units, no matter how fast they are. You won't spend tons of gas and supply on something that is completely useless in the late game. You want few of the at the most in the early/mid/late game.


+1 Nobody is going to waste resources to make a reaper when you can make a way more useful marauder for less gas and less time in mid-late game. You can use the gas excess in ravens.

If reaper is going to be the scouting unit for terran like observers or overseers then give them some detection skill like deploy a small radius detection device to use against widow-mines, burrowed infestor or swarm host, observer or dts. That way the reapers will be usefull the whole game.
Just for fun
Elp
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands86 Posts
January 10 2013 10:09 GMT
#716
On January 10 2013 18:52 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 07:59 BigAsia wrote:
Wait, so reapers do 4x2 damage now? lolll


Yes, this change is to balance reapers being massable in the late game, this gives Terran a very powerful highspeed re-max army. Similar to mass ling past 30min or mass zealot, at 3.8 speed, it is possible for T that keeps up in his production of barracks, to remax 30 or 40 high movement speed, health regenerating units.

Good luck remaxing on reapers, they have a 45 second build time. You can remax on marines twice as fast.

As for spending gas late game: If the new HSM is any good, people will spend excess gas on Ravens.
gronnelg
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway354 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 10:11:41
January 10 2013 10:11 GMT
#717
[QUOTE]On January 10 2013 18:59 Umpteen wrote:
Tangential point: the tone of the HotS forum is very offputting right now: one angry, contemptuous, humourless, bitter post after another (not singling out the post I replied to, by the way). And no, it's not 'justified' because you disagree with the changes or you're struggling to play a particular style. It's rude and selfish and it gets everyone down including yourself. If you're on holiday with friends and it's raining out, you don't bitch about the weather all day.
[QUOTE]
This.
Lulzez || My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gronnelg
nomyx
Profile Joined June 2012
United States2205 Posts
January 10 2013 10:13 GMT
#718
Next patch: transform hellion ability to the marine. it turns the marine into 2 hellions
Sissors
Profile Joined March 2012
1395 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 10:18:53
January 10 2013 10:18 GMT
#719
On January 10 2013 19:02 BerthaG wrote:
Give P scan on nexus and ok then, lol a mule, save you the game instant detection anywhere at any time in the game. Whereas P as to teck to robo with slow detection or stargate for oracle consuming mana i guess sure....

Sure, then give terran chronoboost, but then dont complain when we might slightly speed up 1-1-1 and similar strats, while your defense is enormously slowed down.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-10 10:21:06
January 10 2013 10:20 GMT
#720
On January 10 2013 18:59 Umpteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 17:01 Asturas wrote:Blizzard, please, understand: Terran does not need changes in early game. We need to have something for late game!


Without commenting on the changes themselves, early game changes lead to late-game changes. Queen range? Overlord speed buff?

Removing the siege tank upgrade drastically changes your mineral/gas investment early on. Think how big a change gasless openings in ZvX turned out to be - how much more economy Zergs could support. It changes what Terran is capable of in the early game, which imposes new restrictions on your opponent, which feeds through to the rest of the game.

TL;DR: we should probably play the game for more than 5 minutes to see how this patch shakes out

Tangential point: the tone of the HotS forum is very offputting right now: one angry, contemptuous, humourless, bitter post after another (not singling out the post I replied to, by the way). And no, it's not 'justified' because you disagree with the changes or you're struggling to play a particular style. It's rude and selfish and it gets everyone down including yourself. If you're on holiday with friends and it's raining out, you don't bitch about the weather all day.

Speaking for myself, I'd love to read a bit less "Reaper change retarded; thank's Blizzard another nerf for Terran" and a bit more "A friend and I spent last night trying out reaper openers, and we found that while the scouting is still useful, making more than one doesn't induce a big enough deviation to make it worth diverting minerals into gas or gas away from factory / upgrades. Has anyone else been able to make them work? I think they should maybe get their anti-structure grenades back, now that they don't counter light units so hard. With that, and their increased base speed/regen, and the fact you can reactor them out, late-game reaper raids could be really viable too."

Or we can pretend we live in a world where calling people stupid and useless makes them work harder, care more, and listen more closely to what we say. It's never worked before but maybe it will this time.


You need to realize that tl.net forums is full of kids that just speak their asses off, especially if it's a balance thread. Everyone is upset they didn't implement changes to their liking. Matured people actually play the game, try new stuff, wait with their verdict. It's just a waste of time trying to explain here anything both for you and them. While I appreciate what you said and I absolutely agree, I have to tell you that only option to not lose your mind is just not read threads touching balance. Now let's jump into beta and try some new Terran mech openings with more useful mines, faster armory, faster 3rd base, 2base pressure against air switching Toss, new HSM, buffed Hellbats and other stuff.. :-)
Prev 1 34 35 36 37 38 53 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group A
WardiTV172
Rex17
LiquipediaDiscussion
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #112
Solar vs KrystianerLIVE!
TBD vs SKillous
CranKy Ducklings192
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 647
MindelVK 26
RotterdaM 25
Rex 17
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 7214
Sea 4796
GuemChi 672
actioN 593
Pusan 481
Barracks 281
Hyun 238
Soma 178
Last 178
Larva 153
[ Show more ]
hero 116
PianO 103
Backho 86
ToSsGirL 51
Sharp 51
NaDa 23
Noble 12
HiyA 11
scan(afreeca) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc7160
singsing1846
XcaliburYe141
League of Legends
JimRising 955
Counter-Strike
zeus539
x6flipin363
edward59
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor192
Other Games
B2W.Neo763
Pyrionflax345
Happy241
XaKoH 111
goatrope33
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2824
• WagamamaTV440
• lizZardDota261
League of Legends
• Jankos4458
• Lourlo920
Upcoming Events
LAN Event
2h 50m
ByuN vs Zoun
TBD vs TriGGeR
Clem vs TBD
IPSL
5h 50m
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
7h 50m
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
OSC
10h 50m
OSC
20h 50m
Wardi Open
23h 50m
Replay Cast
1d 10h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 23h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
[ Show More ]
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
BSL 21
6 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.