EPTI will probably never expect them to make a good game ever again.
User was temp banned for this post.
Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 19
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Just_a_Moth
Canada1971 Posts
I will probably never expect them to make a good game ever again. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:24 The_Darkness wrote: To HTOMario, and Lynaa (and other meching pros): thoughts on these changes? Seems like mech is more viable to me (assuming you're ok with using ravens) since it's going to be much easier to hold off all ins (or so it would seem), because of the early availability of siege tanks, and you can use the 100 gas you save on an earlier factory, which in turn means you'll be able to get your production going that much more quickly. In the late game the buff to ravens seems pretty nice although I don't have much (or honestly any) experience using them against Protoss so I'm out of my depth here. Will those changes make much of a practical difference in the late game if youre meching against P? Seems like it could. Also it seems the reaper change will make it easier to scout early on and thus be even safer against Protoss all ins -- since you'll see them coming, in theory at least. Removing the envision ability from the MSC seems to empower mech because widow mines can no longer be detected in the early game unless you have a robo or stargate. (Also this indirectly once again makes cloaked banshees a potential early game threat.) Anyway, these changes make it seem like going a "factory focused" composition will be easier against protoss, which should allow for greedier mech plays, open the possibility for new timings, keep the protoss worried about those timings (and thus indirectly hurt protoss's economy), etc. It will be very interesting to see how it all plays out. They will not make mech viable by the end of the beta because guess what? One step forward, 2-3 steps backwards. Battle hellion in this patch is NERFED, yes, nerfed, because guess what? It's attack rate is decreased and splash decreased. So compare it to a pre-patch blue flame battle hellion. Pre-patch blue flame battle hellion has the radius + faster attack speed and around the same damage. Post-patch battle hellion doesn't need the upgrade, but then is NERFED in radius and attack speed... They need to stop pretending they're buffing mech, when they simultaenously nerf it at the same time every patch they put out. | ||
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:59 Young Terran wrote: no idea where blizzard is going with this expansion my thoughts exactly, idk what the hell this patch is going to do to the game. Its getting a little alarming at this point, they seem to not have any idea what to do and we are rapidly approaching the release date. | ||
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LeafMeAlone
United States301 Posts
tank upgrade makes no sense, he says it's for tvp but getting the upgrade isn't the problem it's the units haha | ||
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stAMy
Norway30 Posts
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
Only two changes that directly relate to mech. One is the Hellbat change, but that's really just the standard sort of change you'd expect Blizz to do as they try to balance a new unit. The siege tank change though... it's not like Terran needs faster siege tech against Toss (or for any mu tbh), tanks are already pretty good against them when you get them early. What they needed was more powerful tanks in the late game against Protoss, and quite frankly they could use a buff in the other matchups as well. I'll have to check out the Reaper change but honestly they sound awful now. First they removed their bonus damage to building, now their bonus damage to light. It's like Blizzard just said "Ok, no one used Reapers in WoL... so let's remove all attack potential that they had and just make them exclusively a scout, then everyone will know how to use them!!!" | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Time warp is now on the mothership I take back everything good I said. That's dumb. Warp on the oracle was really fun, and now it's effectively gone because it's stuck on a unique unit that we're not supposed to build anyway. | ||
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Young Terran
United Kingdom265 Posts
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memcpy
United States459 Posts
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FoShao
United States256 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
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Monochromatic
United States1000 Posts
On January 10 2013 09:03 memcpy wrote: I love the responses in this thread. Half the people are saying "reapers are useless" and the other half are saying "proxy reaper every game or you lose". C'mon guys... Thing is, both are probably true. Reapers will be useless outside of a proxy situation, and that situation would be incredibly difficult to stop. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:54 SolidMoose wrote: No. #2 causes #1. The medivac uses 3 energy per second. So if you increase the health per energy, you increase the healing rate. It's pretty simple. First, healing rate or speed is not the same thing as #2 (which is reducing cost). Let me bust out the WC3 example (which is I edited in my other post). A priest heals 25 health for 5 mana, with a 1 second cooldown (so 25 health per 1 second). However, you can make the priest heal faster if you reduce the cooldown from 1 second to 0.5 seconds. Now the priest is healing 25 health for 5 mana, per 0.5 seconds instead of 1 second. Notice how that means that the priest will end up using 10 energy per second instead of 5 energy per second? His healing rate sped up but the cost speeds up as well since he's just healing faster. In SC2, it's a similar concept with the Medivac. Lets use the WC3 example. Blizzard increased the heal rate by reducing in a way, reducing the cooldown (meaning, more heals per second). Priest heals with a 0.5 second cooldown instead of a 1. Priest heals for 50 health / 10 mana per second. However, Blizzard also made the upgrade reduce the Priest's mana cost from 5 to 2.5. So now, the priest heals 50 health / 5 mana per second. I can understand the problem but in the SC2 editor, there is technically no way (using "Create Healer") to make a unit heal more at the same energy (hence why Blizzard used said wording when describing the upgrade): In the SC2 editor/engine, heal has two separate field boxes: 1. The healing rate. By default, the heal rate runs 9 times (separated to 30 ticks) per second. In the editor, the heal amount is "3". 2. The energy cost per heal is this. "0.33". This meant, healing cost is 1 health per 0.33 energy. When Blizzard added the upgrade, Medivac heal amount increases from 3 to 5. By default, Heal was at 3 energy per 1 health or more specifically, 1 health per 0.33 energy. That would have stayed exactly the same (heal would have cost 1.65 energy per heal because 5 x 0.33 = 1.65). This would mean it healed faster at the same cost. Because it healed faster, the Medivac used up energy faster. However, Blizzard also made it so Medivacs healed for less energy "per" HP. They changed energy cost from 0.33 per 1 health to 0.2 per 1 health. #1 - They changed heal rate (Periodic Vital Rate) from 3 to 5. #2 - They changed "Drain Vital Cost Factor" from 0.33 to 0.2. They removed #1, thus "Drain Vital Cost Factor" is 0.2 cost for 3 Vital Rate. The main reason for this is because it uses the "Create Healer" effect which has links both the heal speed and cost. So that's why changing #2 does not affect #1 (you can change #2 field and not #1). If you change #2, it simply reduces the heal to energy cost ratio. If you change #1, it simply changes the rate (the health to energy cost ratio is the same). tl;dr - Medivac's heal effect uses a "ratio". There are two fields, the heal amount (#1) and the energy cost per 1 health (#2). The upgraded buffed both #1 and #2, but Blizzard (with this patch) removed #1. So the Medivac now uses less energy to heal at the same rate as before. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
On January 10 2013 09:03 memcpy wrote: I love the responses in this thread. Half the people are saying "reapers are useless" and the other half are saying "proxy reaper every game or you lose". C'mon guys... People love to talk before they actually test the changes, I don't get this. Just wait for the server to be up and go play. Then post. Half of what everyone is saying will be proven wrong in a matter of hours. | ||
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Nepgear
Japan14 Posts
<insert threats of not buying hots here> <insert adjectives that is synonymous to stupid here> <insert sigh here> It's like I'm in bnet forums! | ||
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Luepert
United States1934 Posts
The Vortex ability has been removed from the game." Oh Lord yes. I may start playing again. | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On January 10 2013 09:00 avilo wrote: They will not make mech viable by the end of the beta because guess what? One step forward, 2-3 steps backwards. Battle hellion in this patch is NERFED, yes, nerfed, because guess what? It's attack rate is decreased and splash decreased. So compare it to a pre-patch blue flame battle hellion. Pre-patch blue flame battle hellion has the radius + faster attack speed and around the same damage. Post-patch battle hellion doesn't need the upgrade, but then is NERFED in radius and attack speed... They need to stop pretending they're buffing mech, when they simultaenously nerf it at the same time every patch they put out. But don't you think the siege mode change will encourage and permit greedier mech openings? From my theory crafting armchair, it seems like Terran should be able to be very greedy against Protoss now that siege tanks can be out so early. And if you can be greedy and your opponent has to be worried (e.g., about a really early and powerful siege tank push) it should really tilt the balance of tvp in Terran's favor, assuming you open siege tanks. I would have thought the pros would have been a bit happier with these changes. Look at what the queen buff / overlord speed buff did to tvz. It went from clearly Terran favored (the top players were Terran (and DRG) pre-patch) to Zerg favored by quite a bit, all because of a subtle change to something that matters most in the early game. I think there's a good chance that the siege tank change will have this effect. Only time and many games will tell! | ||
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TommyP
United States6231 Posts
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VPVanek
Canada238 Posts
What exactly is the reaper suppose to do now, it doesn't have a role anymore. It can't harass, it can't kill things. I guess it can scout, but whats the point of wasting 50 gas on a scout? The siege tank buff also makes no sense. TvT = 1 base TvP = 1 base TvZ = I don't know , more 1 base play perhaps. Hellions were fine the way they were, no need to change them. Medivac change also baffles me. Blizzard said they wanted bio to have some standing power in the late game, which the upgrade gave, and then they took it away leaving bio the same?.. I really don't understand what they are trying to do, they say they listen to the community, but after this patch its evident that they don't. | ||
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