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Belisarius
Australia6232 Posts
Other changes are really strange though. Once again, they don't seem to have worked out that access limitations are relevant early game, not late. Giving free siege tech does nothing to make mech viable against protoss. Was there really a major pre-siege timing? New hellbat damage seems scary as anything. I also have no idea what reapers are supposed to do now. | ||
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p14c
Vatican City State431 Posts
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Puritas
Germany39 Posts
Reaper buff ist nice. Tanks buff awesome. HSM buff is also good for any MU. Dont really get the hellbat thingy. Medivac upgrade is for what now? only energy again like in WoL? I am confused | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:49 Goldfish wrote: Actually the upgrade reduces healing cost by 40%. Before, the upgrade did two things: 1. Heal rate increased from 9 per second to 15 per second. By default, in the editor, if you simply change the heal rate, it also increase the energy cost. If Blizzard changed it simply from 9 to 15 per second, energy cost would be 15 / 5 energy per second (as opposed to the current 9 / 3 energy per second). What the upgrade did was made it 15 / 3. Not only did it heal faster but it healed for less energy per health, making it heal "more" for the same price (healing "more" and healing "faster" are different, in the latter case it might simply mean expending energy faster to heal faster... This is what the complaints I had with Huskar's Tooltip in Dota back when he first came out, el oh el. Also they still call it "faster" in Dota 2 >.<). 2. Energy cost from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 per 1 energy. They removed #1. Healing without upgrade is 9 health / 3 energy. Now healing with upgrade is 9 health / 1.8 energy. No. #2 causes #1. The medivac uses 3 energy per second. So if you increase the health per energy, you increase the healing rate. It's pretty simple. | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
voidrays, bcs, thors, siegetanks, vikings, all should take less damage now? | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:52 mprs wrote: 100% agree with the P changes 100% indifferent to the Z changes The siege and reaper changes are a bit weird. Terran isn't having problems teching to siege... they are having late game problems with Mech. Well, fungal was also nerfed a bit vs armored, so that's good for mech I guess? | ||
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syroz
France249 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:49 Goldfish wrote: Actually the upgrade reduces healing cost by 40%. Before, the upgrade did two things: 1. Heal rate increased from 9 per second to 15 per second. By default, in the editor, if you simply change the heal rate, it also increase the energy cost. If Blizzard changed it simply from 9 to 15 per second, energy cost would be 15 / 5 energy per second (as opposed to the current 9 / 3 energy per second). What the upgrade did was made it 15 / 3. Not only did it heal faster but it healed for less energy per health, making it heal "more" for the same price (healing "more" and healing "faster" are different, in the latter case it might simply mean expending energy faster to heal faster... This is what the complaints I had with Huskar's Tooltip in Dota back when he first came out, el oh el. Also they still call it "faster" in Dota 2 >.<). 2. Energy cost from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 per 1 energy. They removed #1. Healing without upgrade is 9 health / 3 energy. Now healing with upgrade is 9 health / 1.8 energy. Ok so now its just way better to feedback  The upgrade is useless now, no need math to understand that. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
-2 support caster units that in all honesty no1 under master level is gonna use accordingly. -a flying unit that was supposed to replace the Carrier but blizzard didn't expect the shitstorm so they added the carrier back in. Oh did I mention the unit is boring as fack? WHY would I buy this expansion as a Protoss player. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:54 SolidMoose wrote: No. #2 causes #1. The medivac uses 3 energy per second. So if you increase the health per energy, you increase the healing rate. It's pretty simple. Come on now, you know for a fact that blizzard, while their decision making is often questionable, isn't that retarded. Of course the upgrade makes the heals more efficient rather than doing absolutely nothing -_-. syroz said Ok so now its just way better to feedback The upgrade is useless now, no need math to understand that. Actually it's quite good lategame. How often do you see terran running low on medivac energy because they're dying frequently or he has to make a lot of vikings? | ||
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:56 Jakkerr wrote: So, for this brilliant new expansion protoss now has: -2 support caster units that in all honesty no1 under master level is gonna use accordingly. -a flying unit that was supposed to replace the Carrier but blizzard didn't expect the shitstorm so they added the carrier back in. Oh did I mention the unit is boring as fack? WHY would I buy this expansion as a Protoss player. You have it far better than terrans. | ||
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Duncaaaaaan
United Kingdom101 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote: Well, fungal was also nerfed a bit vs armored, so that's good for mech I guess? Since when has fungal ever fucked over a mech player... | ||
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BoggieMan
520 Posts
I think blizzard went too far with buffing terran actually, they are probably gonna revert some of it. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:54 Puritas wrote: No vortix = no wins in PvZ for Toss. Reaper buff ist nice. Tanks buff awesome. HSM buff is also good for any MU. Dont really get the hellbat thingy. Medivac upgrade is for what now? only energy again like in WoL? I am confused You obviously have absolutely no idea on hots Protoss. The fact you think vortex means pvz toss can't win is so laughable and incorrect. I would recommend at least knowing what protoss has before saying this. Bl/corr/infesotr is DEAD in pvz. Protoss air army is the strongest army pvz if they can get it (which they can if they are slowly adding it in all game). Voidray/tempest/templar = smash bl/corr/infestor hardcore. That composition isn't viable anymore due to how strong the toss air army is. | ||
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one-one-one
Sweden551 Posts
18 pages in a very short time. so many warnings and temp bans, lol better not say what I really think about the siege tank change  | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:46 Henk wrote: Funny how +2 range on queens was such a huge deal because apparently it enabled the zerg to play greedy which changed the entire game. But now siege mode is free (and has no research time) terran can do the exact same thing. T thinking it doesn't change anything. Exactly. This could be a huge change for non-obvious reasons. The analogy you draw to queen range is spot on. For 50% of the people who post on TL, if the purpose of something is not immediately apparent and obvious (and what they were hoping for), it must be completely stupid and pointless. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
The siege tank buff in particular, I think it's not that clear how much it will impact TvP. An early research cost/time buff scales into many other aspects of the game. Also, it can't be analysed isolated, it must be tested together with all other changes, in particular hellbat and protoss detection nerf that indirectly buff mines. Also, Blizzard has clearly expressed that they don't want pure mech. They want to make bio/mech transition/combine better and this buff is clearly in that line. Terrans need to forget about BW pure mech. That's dead and burried. SC2 is a very concrete game and practice often refutes theory. | ||
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Millet
Sweden143 Posts
The only thing that no siege tech will do, is make all-ins better. Sure, this will even out the win rates, but that doesn't mean that they fixed mech. On January 10 2013 08:49 GoodSirTets wrote: I like this patch a lot. No more vortex :DDD Reapers seem kind of useless unless you just build one for scouting :p 9 shots to kill a worker? Vortex was already nerfed anyway, killing only one unit, which was plain terrible. The reaper now does 4x2 = 8 damage. Meaning that a reaper kills probes in 5 shots and drones and SCVS in 6 shots. | ||
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Larkin
United Kingdom7161 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote: It's exactly what HotS needs. A switch away from massing bio with overpowered medivac healing to other options. I don't even know why people think 1-1-1 builds will dominate, with protoss having the huge range nexus cannon and zerg never having a problem with them to begin with on larger maps. Being unable to expand is usually a problem. Ever had tanks outside your main with bunkers and banshees? You have to either throw everything immediately and risk losing there and then, or make enough stuff to break it and hope you can go all the way with a counter. That extra time is huge. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:56 Jakkerr wrote: So, for this brilliant new expansion protoss now has: -2 support caster units that in all honesty no1 under master level is gonna use accordingly. -a flying unit that was supposed to replace the Carrier but blizzard didn't expect the shitstorm so they added the carrier back in. Oh did I mention the unit is boring as fack? WHY would I buy this expansion as a Protoss player. Really, the guy with MsC asks why he would buy HotS... as opposed to T and Z... who have... ... ... Vipers! | ||
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Young Terran
United Kingdom265 Posts
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