Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 18

Belisarius

Australia6233 Posts

January 09 2013 23:53 GMT

#341

Hell yes detection on oracle again! Excellent, wasn't expecting them to do that. I really don't see why they don't just make it a passive detector though. It has an asston of abilities, now.

Other changes are really strange though. Once again, they don't seem to have worked out that access limitations are relevant early game, not late. Giving free siege tech does nothing to make mech viable against protoss. Was there really a major pre-siege timing?

New hellbat damage seems scary as anything. I also have no idea what reapers are supposed to do now.

p14c

Vatican City State431 Posts

January 09 2013 23:54 GMT

#342

It's clear that Blizzard want to make Terran a stupid rush race instead of fixing the end game units.

Puritas

Germany39 Posts

January 09 2013 23:54 GMT

#343

No vortix = no wins in PvZ for Toss.

Reaper buff ist nice.

Tanks buff awesome.

HSM buff is also good for any MU.

Dont really get the hellbat thingy.

Medivac upgrade is for what now? only energy again like in WoL? I am confused

SolidMoose

United States1240 Posts

January 09 2013 23:54 GMT

#344

On January 10 2013 08:49 Goldfish wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually the upgrade reduces healing cost by 40%.

Before, the upgrade did two things:

1. Heal rate increased from 9 per second to 15 per second. By default, in the editor, if you simply change the heal rate, it also increase the energy cost.

If Blizzard changed it simply from 9 to 15 per second, energy cost would be 15 / 5 energy per second (as opposed to the current 9 / 3 energy per second). What the upgrade did was made it 15 / 3.

Not only did it heal faster but it healed for less energy per health, making it heal "more" for the same price (healing "more" and healing "faster" are different, in the latter case it might simply mean expending energy faster to heal faster... This is what the complaints I had with Huskar's Tooltip in Dota back when he first came out, el oh el. Also they still call it "faster" in Dota 2 >.<).

2. Energy cost from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 per 1 energy.

They removed #1.

Healing without upgrade is 9 health / 3 energy.

Now healing with upgrade is 9 health / 1.8 energy.

No. #2 causes #1. The medivac uses 3 energy per second. So if you increase the health per energy, you increase the healing rate. It's pretty simple.

c0sm0naut

United States1229 Posts

January 09 2013 23:55 GMT

#345

the change to infestors damage vs armored affects quite a bit of things no?
voidrays, bcs, thors, siegetanks, vikings, all should take less damage now?

neptunusfisk

2286 Posts

January 09 2013 23:55 GMT

#346

On January 10 2013 08:52 mprs wrote:
100% agree with the P changes
100% indifferent to the Z changes

The siege and reaper changes are a bit weird. Terran isn't having problems teching to siege... they are having late game problems with Mech.

Well, fungal was also nerfed a bit vs armored, so that's good for mech I guess?

syroz

France249 Posts

January 09 2013 23:55 GMT

#347

On January 10 2013 08:49 Goldfish wrote:

Show nested quote +

Ok so now its just way better to feedback

The upgrade is useless now, no need math to understand that.

Jakkerr

Netherlands2549 Posts

January 09 2013 23:56 GMT

#348

So, for this brilliant new expansion protoss now has:
-2 support caster units that in all honesty no1 under master level is gonna use accordingly.
-a flying unit that was supposed to replace the Carrier but blizzard didn't expect the shitstorm so they added the carrier back in. Oh did I mention the unit is boring as fack?

WHY would I buy this expansion as a Protoss player.

Whitewing

United States7483 Posts

January 09 2013 23:56 GMT

#349

On January 10 2013 08:54 SolidMoose wrote:

Show nested quote +

No. #2 causes #1. The medivac uses 3 energy per second. So if you increase the health per energy, you increase the healing rate. It's pretty simple.

Come on now, you know for a fact that blizzard, while their decision making is often questionable, isn't that retarded. Of course the upgrade makes the heals more efficient rather than doing absolutely nothing -_-.

syroz said

Ok so now its just way better to feedback
The upgrade is useless now, no need math to understand that.

Actually it's quite good lategame. How often do you see terran running low on medivac energy because they're dying frequently or he has to make a lot of vikings?

Duncaaaaaan

United Kingdom101 Posts

January 09 2013 23:56 GMT

#350

On January 10 2013 08:56 Jakkerr wrote:
So, for this brilliant new expansion protoss now has:
-2 support caster units that in all honesty no1 under master level is gonna use accordingly.
-a flying unit that was supposed to replace the Carrier but blizzard didn't expect the shitstorm so they added the carrier back in. Oh did I mention the unit is boring as fack?

WHY would I buy this expansion as a Protoss player.

You have it far better than terrans.

Duncaaaaaan

United Kingdom101 Posts

January 09 2013 23:57 GMT

#351

On January 10 2013 08:55 neptunusfisk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well, fungal was also nerfed a bit vs armored, so that's good for mech I guess?

Since when has fungal ever fucked over a mech player...

BoggieMan

520 Posts

January 09 2013 23:57 GMT

#352

Its terran time ! :D

I think blizzard went too far with buffing terran actually, they are probably gonna revert some of it.

blade55555

United States17423 Posts

January 09 2013 23:57 GMT

#353

On January 10 2013 08:54 Puritas wrote:
No vortix = no wins in PvZ for Toss.

Reaper buff ist nice.

Tanks buff awesome.

HSM buff is also good for any MU.

Dont really get the hellbat thingy.

Medivac upgrade is for what now? only energy again like in WoL? I am confused

You obviously have absolutely no idea on hots Protoss.

The fact you think vortex means pvz toss can't win is so laughable and incorrect. I would recommend at least knowing what protoss has before saying this.

Bl/corr/infesotr is DEAD in pvz. Protoss air army is the strongest army pvz if they can get it (which they can if they are slowly adding it in all game).

Voidray/tempest/templar = smash bl/corr/infestor hardcore.

That composition isn't viable anymore due to how strong the toss air army is.

one-one-one

Sweden551 Posts

January 09 2013 23:58 GMT

#354

wow.

18 pages in a very short time.
so many warnings and temp bans, lol

better not say what I really think about the siege tank change

The_Darkness

United States910 Posts

January 09 2013 23:58 GMT

#355

On January 10 2013 08:46 Henk wrote:
Funny how +2 range on queens was such a huge deal because apparently it enabled the zerg to play greedy which changed the entire game. But now siege mode is free (and has no research time) terran can do the exact same thing. T thinking it doesn't change anything.

Exactly. This could be a huge change for non-obvious reasons. The analogy you draw to queen range is spot on.

For 50% of the people who post on TL, if the purpose of something is not immediately apparent and obvious (and what they were hoping for), it must be completely stupid and pointless.

Azoryen

Portugal242 Posts

January 09 2013 23:58 GMT

#356

I just want to say that IMHO people are jumping to conclusions too fast.

The siege tank buff in particular, I think it's not that clear how much it will impact TvP. An early research cost/time buff scales into many other aspects of the game. Also, it can't be analysed isolated, it must be tested together with all other changes, in particular hellbat and protoss detection nerf that indirectly buff mines.

Also, Blizzard has clearly expressed that they don't want pure mech. They want to make bio/mech transition/combine better and this buff is clearly in that line.
Terrans need to forget about BW pure mech. That's dead and burried.

SC2 is a very concrete game and practice often refutes theory.

Millet

Sweden143 Posts

January 09 2013 23:58 GMT

#357

I'm getting annoyed that they don't seem to have any information as to why mech is not working in TvP. Teching to mech is not hard at all. However, pulling off mech in the later stages of the game is really hard due to the accessibility of Zealots, the plain counter that is the Immortal and the lack of decent AA in a mech composition.

The only thing that no siege tech will do, is make all-ins better. Sure, this will even out the win rates, but that doesn't mean that they fixed mech.

On January 10 2013 08:49 GoodSirTets wrote:
I like this patch a lot. No more vortex :DDD
Reapers seem kind of useless unless you just build one for scouting :p 9 shots to kill a worker?

Vortex was already nerfed anyway, killing only one unit, which was plain terrible.
The reaper now does 4x2 = 8 damage. Meaning that a reaper kills probes in 5 shots and drones and SCVS in 6 shots.

Larkin

United Kingdom7161 Posts

January 09 2013 23:59 GMT

#358

On January 10 2013 08:44 Bagi wrote:

Show nested quote +

It's exactly what HotS needs. A switch away from massing bio with overpowered medivac healing to other options.

I don't even know why people think 1-1-1 builds will dominate, with protoss having the huge range nexus cannon and zerg never having a problem with them to begin with on larger maps.

Being unable to expand is usually a problem. Ever had tanks outside your main with bunkers and banshees? You have to either throw everything immediately and risk losing there and then, or make enough stuff to break it and hope you can go all the way with a counter. That extra time is huge.