EPTDont think anyone saw these changes comming
Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 17
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4Servy
Netherlands1542 Posts
Dont think anyone saw these changes comming | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:43 Grendel wrote: Really dislike the Siege Tank upgrade removal. Other changes seem to be OK, though they would need testing obviously. I mean, 50% of the people in this thread are saying that tvt will be proxy rax every game, the other half is saying reapers are useless now. Lol. But anyway, this change does nothing to mech, really. Removing one upgrade does NOT increase the overall viability of a gamestyle. The other half, the one that's saying reapers are useless, is simply looking one patch ahead into the future. There's just no way imba proxy Reapers make it into release, so this is all pointless. Either they get returned to patch 10 with tech lab, which means they're useless outside of TvT (and likely get nerfed again to WoL levels), or they stay Reactored but get hit with even more nerf, making them as useless as in WoL. And in all of these cases, the only thing we get out of them is cheese. No midgame/lategame viability. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
HEEEEEEEEY... PROXY REAPER?!?! | ||
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GoodSirTets
Canada200 Posts
Reapers seem kind of useless unless you just build one for scouting :p 9 shots to kill a worker? | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
LOLOOLOLOLOLOLOL like, are you fucking serious dkim+dbrow? too much acid over the xmas break or what? I'm just... ... edit1: what the fucking fuck edit2: so like... let's fix mech sucking against protoss by making shitty siege mode more accessible? what a way to completely dodge fixing the underlying problem. I can't think of a less impactful way to buff mech in tvp. edit3: LOL edit4: so basically reapers can be massed and used to harass for a whopping 4 damage. That's less damage than a worker attack LOL... and made even worse by the fact that it attacks twice, so against buildings it does 2 damage per attack. Np, just 75 shots to kill a cannon. So they are a joke against even speedlings now, even massed... so what are they going to be useful for in the army again? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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CruelZeratul
Germany4588 Posts
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Snusmumriken
Sweden1717 Posts
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
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snively
United States1159 Posts
msc/oracle swap !!! infestor nerf :  )) | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:38 SolidMoose wrote: For the people who can't do math: The "two" buffs of caduceus are the same thing. It heals faster BECAUSE it heals more health per energy. All they did was increase the health per energy from 3 to 5. This means, by definition, the heal rate increases. So if they got rid of the heal rate, it means that caduceus has lost everything and is likely back to good ol +25 energy. Actually the upgrade reduces healing cost by 40%. Before, the upgrade did two things: 1. Heal rate increased from 9 per second to 15 per second. By default, in the editor, if you simply change the heal rate, it also increase the energy cost. If Blizzard changed it simply from 9 to 15 per second, energy cost would be 15 / 5 energy per second (as opposed to the current 9 / 3 energy per second). What the upgrade did was made it 15 / 3. Not only did it heal faster but it healed for less energy per health, making it heal "more" for the same price (healing "more" and healing "faster" are different, in the latter case it might simply mean expending energy faster to heal faster... This is one the complaints I had with Huskar's Tooltip in Dota back when he first came out >.>. It said heal faster instead of healing for more which confused me, I thought it meant like a Clarity potion, instead of healing 100 over 30 seconds, heal 100 over 10 seconds [for example] but it simply meant healing "more". Also they still call it "faster" in Dota 2 >.<). 2. Energy cost from 3 health per 1 energy to 5 per 1 energy. They removed #1. Healing without upgrade is 9 health / 3 energy (3 health per 1 energy). Now healing with upgrade is 9 health / 1.8 energy (5 health per 1 energy). Again, there is a huge difference between healing faster and healing for more. Clarity potion in Dota heals 100 mana over 30 seconds. Healing faster would be it heals 100 mana over 10 seconds (3x faster) but the same amount. Healing faster in WC3 is the Priest heals but instead of a 1 second cooldown, it has a 0.5 second cooldown (similar to BW and SC2 actually). Healing faster in SC2 would be the Medivac heals 3 health per 1 second with a 0.2 cooldown (15 times per second) instead of a 0.33 cooldown (9 times per second). This is what the editor used in SC2 (sort of, it doesn't have any cooldown, the rate is fixed at 30 ticks per second, and it can't be changed). And this everyone... is why Icefrog should change Huskar's tooltip in Dota from "faster" to "more". | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
while blizz is figuring their shit out i think everyone on the beta should do the honorable thing and not make reapers i'm being the change i want to see in the beta how about you? | ||
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sYz-Adrenaline
United States1850 Posts
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syroz
France249 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:38 Finnz wrote: I have just realized through all these changes that blizzard forgot to nerf the ultralisks...this is actually comical lol. Oh yeah. RIP Bioball. TT | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
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algue
France1436 Posts
On January 10 2013 08:44 syroz wrote: And ppl, remember that we are part of a beta. We are here to test things, even crazy ones. And give construtive feedbacks then. Test it then talk. Totally agree but what scares everybody is that the release is coming ! 2 months isn't that much and it looks like blizzard has no real plan for the futur. | ||
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Monochromatic
United States1000 Posts
Reapers: Proxy reaper is going to be incredible now. Probably insanely broken, in fact. The damage nerf makes it useless as soon as any armored unit comes out though, and it currently fails at harassing outside of a proxy situation. It now takes 5 shots for a reaper to kill a probe, and 6 for it to kill an SCV or a Drone. Hellbats: Now Terran has a pure mineral roach, which has lower damage, lower speed, lower health, and lower range. On the other hand, it gets + damage against light and has small splash. Medivacs: The old upgrade was so much better, this one is just a decrease in energy usage. This is to help it stop running out of energy, I guess. The only time that this really happens to me is when I make a early medivac push, which hits earlier then I would be able to get this upgrade. Furthermore, the ability is meant to help bio lategame, however, the new upgrade makes them more viable to feedback. This makes high templar, which already counter marines, better against medivac. Due to that, I see this "upgrade" as more of a downgrade. Ravens: WoL seeker missile, but with a decreased energy cost, and a 5 second time with no potential to miss? This sounds like just the thing that the raven needed to be more useful. However, 5 seconds might be a bit much time. Would really have to see how this goes. Siege Tanks: Kinda worthless buff for its intended purpose, yet a massive buff for PvZ. Early game pushes will hit so much faster, it will be really interesting to see how it plays out. I think that a decreased upgrade time and or cost is a better option, though. Protoss Mothership: Seems kinda useless, especially if you can still have only one. Mothership Core: Less detection, means robo or stargate openings only again. I'd say this is a bad move, but I'm not sure exactly. MsC already provides practical immunity to early attacks, so detection might have been to much. Oracles: Stargate got a whole lot more viable. Glad about the removal of time warp, when you use it on mineral lines it had same problem of entomb: guaranteed damage. Will be interesting to see what happens. Zerg Infestors: Any fungal nerf is a good fungal nerf. This doesn't really do much, as in the lategame fungal was mainly used to lock down the opponents army, while Ultralisks or Brood Lords would do the really damage. Will be interesting to see how this plays out. | ||
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spirates
Sweden148 Posts
Anyway I was hoping for some buff to mech lategame since its just not working against toss. The reaper nerf was needed since it forced you to either go Reaper or Maruder in TvT, in TvP and TvZ it was shit, but TvT it was to strong. I was hoping for a nerf to Oracle damage. Just like the reaper before this patch, it does extra damage vs light units. You can get them so damn early, meaning a terran player will only have a few marines max without any upgrades to defend, and a orcale can easly kill alot of scvs in a few seconds or just wipe out your 7 marine army, after all they do about 30 dps to light units. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
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mprs
Canada2933 Posts
100% indifferent to the Z changes The siege and reaper changes are a bit weird. Terran isn't having problems teching to siege... they are having late game problems with Mech. And as for the reaper, I think everyone realizes it's a good scouting tool, but Terran has no problems scouting either. What they need for the reaper to be is a harassment, and to have some form of viability outside of the 5 minute mark. | ||
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Pookie Monster
United States303 Posts
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