EPTThe next major balance patch - David Kim - Page 9
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birchman
Sweden393 Posts
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TeeTS
Germany2762 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:11 blade55555 wrote: BC's are actually a really good unit, it's just the transitioning into it. The unit themselves are good. well, they are very easily countered by units Zerg and Protoss get anyway at the point of time, Terran would be able to build BC... | ||
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wcr.4fun
Belgium686 Posts
On December 04 2012 03:33 therockmanxx wrote: I like the way this game is going !! LoV will become the ultimate RTS game ever !! nop still broodwar. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:32 TeeTS wrote: well, they are very easily countered by units Zerg and Protoss get anyway at the point of time, Terran would be able to build BC... To his point, They ain't easily countered. If you manage to get like 8 BCs with the proper support army, they rape everything. But often, when you want to do these transition, you don't have air upgrades at all. Just imagine with vehicule and air upgrades as one, you could just go Mech and right when you start making BC, they're 3/2 or 3/3 instead of 1/0 in the way to 2/0. The difference is huuuuuuge in how powerfull the unit feel. Don't forget BC is one of these units who beneficit the most from upgrades with a lot of tiny fast shot, and a lot of base armor. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
I don't like it and i also feel it would just buff mech way too much. Mech play only fears air later on mostly and with this you automatically have 3/3 vikings ready to pump out, zerg would be beyond screwed. Just make the air and maybe mech upgrades a little cheaper so you can transition easier, perhaps even reduce research time by a little but mixing them sucks i think. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:31 Seiniyta wrote: I'm sitll a bit confused about the voidray, being able to charge or not? Why wouldn't you want the void ray to charge up? Honestly, the wording is so vague that there isn't much to interpret from it. Perhaps players can switch between a buffed normal attack that doesn't charge or the original charging attack that is weaker at the start and stronger at the end. Perhaps the Void Ray still charges, but the attack doesn't become more powerful until the player chooses to use the stored charge. I'm looking forward to see what they come up with. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
To his point, They ain't easily countered. If you manage to get like 8 BCs with the proper support army, they rape everything. They arent that good. Dont get me wrong, they are nice units and quite powerful, and these days I make them pretty often vs toss. But it really isnt a matter of getting 8 BCs and raping everything. I have often enough lost against toss after getting 8 BCs with proper support (not complaining, just saying it isnt as simple as you claim). Of course if you get 8 BCs, your opponent doesnt have a clue you are getting them and he has no counters, then yeah you pretty much won. But that isnt just the case for BCs. You can say pretty much the same for carriers. If you get 8 carriers with upgrades you got a very nice army, but it wont single handed take out your opponent unless he hasnt scouted it. Tbh imo carriers are one of the most underrated units, and one of the problems with going mech against toss (besides the obvious ones). Marines shred them, which is the result of them having a bad reputation. However if you can make a bunch against a mech army, without him noticing your tech switch, you pretty much won. | ||
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Lovedoll
Japan540 Posts
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Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
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Sworm_MS
17 Posts
Air and mech armor must have been combined decade ago, that's good, needed and pretty obvious change. 2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration How do they think protos should counter mass even-more-speedy muta harassing P economy when even now P hugely struggles on that? I can't understand this approach. 1. Hydralisk movement speed upgrade to Lair 4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily That's great only if infestors take really heavy nerf - won't be able hit air, IT cost 75 energy. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:53 Sworm_MS wrote: 6. Buff mech in general - we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory. Air and mech armor must have been combined decade ago, that's good, needed and pretty obvious change. 2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration How do they think protos should counter mass even-more-speedy muta harassing P economy when even now P hugely struggles on that? I can't understand this approach. Not necessarily speedier. Just an acceleration buff could make them better to control, possibly even including a true moving shot from BW that would make them more effective when microed correctly. | ||
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AndreiDaGiant
United States394 Posts
The medivac change i think is not necessary and while i think the bio idea is ok, i dont want blizzard to completly forget about mech vs protoss because i think that if seige tanks were improved in someway vs toss, a varitey of compositions would open up that are currently not viable right now. all in all seems good. The mech upgrades seem good at first glance but it could be to strong vs a zerg who trys to go broodlord. imagine 33 vikings vs broodlord curropter with worse infestors. it might eliminate some units from the game. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:45 Sissors wrote: They arent that good. Dont get me wrong, they are nice units and quite powerful, and these days I make them pretty often vs toss. But it really isnt a matter of getting 8 BCs and raping everything. I have often enough lost against toss after getting 8 BCs with proper support (not complaining, just saying it isnt as simple as you claim). Of course if you get 8 BCs, your opponent doesnt have a clue you are getting them and he has no counters, then yeah you pretty much won. But that isnt just the case for BCs. You can say pretty much the same for carriers. If you get 8 carriers with upgrades you got a very nice army, but it wont single handed take out your opponent unless he hasnt scouted it. Tbh imo carriers are one of the most underrated units, and one of the problems with going mech against toss (besides the obvious ones). Marines shred them, which is the result of them having a bad reputation. However if you can make a bunch against a mech army, without him noticing your tech switch, you pretty much won. Way to ignore everything else I said about them tho. If you can have 3/3 BCs at 20 to 25min instead of 40, it's just not the same unit. Even a few BCs force a massive reaction if they get this heavily upgraded this early | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
- the Raven ability that needs a redesign is probably the autoturret, seeker missile is fine design wise. - don't know why they never considered to make the Reaper a T3 bio unit. Balancing it for the early game has always been a nightmare, so just redesign it to buff bio late game. - buff to hellbats, please NO. - mutalisk, medivac and DT: yeah they need a buff because you've implemented a lot of anti-harass in the game (mine, nexus cannon, spores with no evo chamber), so please fix this first. Mines especially. A buff to muta acceleration is welcome though. - I don't think swarm hosts need to be "easier" in any way :D Everything else seems fine. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:55 eviltomahawk wrote: Not necessarily speedier. Just an acceleration buff could make them better to control, possibly even including a true moving shot from BW that would make them more effective when microed correctly. I can't understand why he's saying P struggles vs muta when they don't. How many times in high level zvp do you see mutas work so well that it looks like toss doesn't know what to do or anything? It's only when they don't see it coming that they get destroyed. | ||
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Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25995 Posts
Not sure, what I think about these. Most of them are 'buff something' but without expansion, so I guess I'll wait and see. Protoss changes are great in the most part, there's a kind of clear idea behind most of them, with specific actual buffs that I can decide. I always liked the charge mechanic conceptually, but it kind of didn't work. Creating the micro requirement to kind of balance this out is a great idea, nice creative design to solve potential problems while creating more decision making. First three even fit into a thread I wrote and the kind of ideas I wanted to see, but also the kind of other cool play that having a good stargate tech that transitions more smoothly into other styles would be good. As it is, yeah it's a good tech tree but too frequently leaves us stuck on the Collosus techpath. Air Changes and the Possibilities a robust Stargate tree could open up, potentially Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall. Nice, maybe synergy wise? Redesign Voidray - Great idea to make better players with Voidrays get better results, but maybe buff it's potential to make it more versatile? Oracle - Depends how they want to do the harassment thing. Problem of overlap is acknowledged though. I'd still like to see its role as a kind of 1 or 2 per army auxilliary caster. That's assuming phoenix/void is still good. 3. Love the concept, wonder what form it will take. An upgrade at the Dark Shrine sounds massively expensive though, in terms of overall tech, if you get this new upgrade? 4. Nerf Vortex - Ah a fine decision, but again only going to sort the matchup out if Protoss have more viable other approaches unlocked in HoTS 5. Again, good. I liked the Tempest concept, really slow damage kind of long ranged siege tank equivalent sounds a bit OP when put like that. Really just figured a way to beat BL/Infestor by making the Protoss equivalent of BL/Infestor in T/T is kind of bad, at least imo | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:01 blade55555 wrote: I can't understand why he's saying P struggles vs muta when they don't. How many times in high level zvp do you see mutas work so well that it looks like toss doesn't know what to do or anything? It's only when they don't see it coming that they get destroyed. Plus in HotS scouting will be easier with early access to a flying unit (MsC). I'm not even a Zerg player but if David Kim meant making mutas more microable ala moving shot then I am all for that. I miss the muta micro from BW days. | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
Wait, what? I mean, I always LOVE games where the match ends from a terran not having a scan available with no turrets up. You know, it's great to watch and really reflects skill. It really adds some depth. (sarcasm) | ||
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Big G
Italy835 Posts
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