• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:30
CET 21:30
KST 05:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners8Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1781 users

The next major balance patch - David Kim

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 27 28 29 Next All
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
December 03 2012 18:09 GMT
#1
According to David Kim:

Terran
1. Redesign Thor ability/Raven seeker missile
2. Push early game Reaper a bit more
3. Hellbats better against melee units, not necessarily better vs. Ranged.
4. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability.
5. Buff Bio in the late game - with the addition of new units in HotS, we feel Bio in the late game is a bit weak.
6. Buff mech in general - we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory.

Zerg
1. Hydralisk movement speed upgrade to Lair
2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration
3. Ultralisk changed to be good vs. all ground
4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily
5. Make it easier to unburrow and reposition Swarm Hosts

Protoss
1. Redesign Voidray - we're currently thinking of having the player choose when to activate the charge.
2. Oracle - pulsar beam would now overlap too much with the new Voidray, so we'd like to change the Oracle to be more of a worker harasser.
3. Buff DTs not necessarily for the DT rush case, but to have DTs more often in the late game.
4. Nerf Vortex - we don't like how all or nothing this ability is in Wings, and with new unit adds, we feel we can remove or phase out this ability.
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.
6. Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall.

These are our current thoughts for each of the races. And please remember none of these changes are final. Our hope is to move into the more fine tuning stages if this major patch turns out well.


Source
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
December 03 2012 18:12 GMT
#2
O Dayvie, such good intentions. But does he have the tools and knowledge to pull it off?
sweetbabyjesus
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark168 Posts
December 03 2012 18:16 GMT
#3
Seems good all around.
Crabs
Phoobie
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada120 Posts
December 03 2012 18:16 GMT
#4
These changes, if implemented right, would be absolutely awsome. *crosses fingers*
"Immortal Roach is pretty good against stalkers" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
December 03 2012 18:17 GMT
#5
Sounds perfect
D4V3Z02
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany693 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 18:19:26
December 03 2012 18:18 GMT
#6
On December 04 2012 03:12 spbelky wrote:
O Dayvie, such good intentions. But does he have the tools and knowledge to pull it off?


He's a genious compared to 99% of the balance whiners on TL and he made sc2, so I guess its ezpzlsqz for him.

I like the changes alot!
http://www.twitch.tv/d4v3z02 all your base are belong to overlord
GattAttack
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Canada202 Posts
December 03 2012 18:19 GMT
#7
Overall really nice that they are looking into all of these things, seems like they've finally started to really look at WOL unit problems. The one major thing I would add to the list is to look at the corrupter as it's boring and too effective against capital ships.

Also nerf infestor quite heavily? I hope they don't mean IT eggs...XD
Inf-badguy
Profile Joined July 2003
Canada171 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 18:22:49
December 03 2012 18:22 GMT
#8
4. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability.


Ow my face
Lesrah
Profile Joined November 2010
Portugal110 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-03 18:23:47
December 03 2012 18:22 GMT
#9
Fuck yea, for once i'am fucking happy with the direction the game is taking. FUCK YEAAA im so fucking pumped. hope infestor root is gone. Love that they are messing up with whole metagame. Now a buff to stim research,warpgate research and ling speed research to make early game more agressive and i'am happy
Virid
Profile Joined November 2010
United States130 Posts
December 03 2012 18:24 GMT
#10
I really like the Terran changes going on here, especially the combining of upgrades for air and mech. Vikings will never hold a candle to how strong tempests are against Zerg T3, but this should definitely help with those annoying zerg T3 tech switches that are killing a lot of pro terrans.

On the other hand, widow mine is still an annoyance to both use and play against. I don't see the muta buffs or the DT buffs helping with making these key harassers better against Terran while the widow mine can basically shut down whole branches of tech trees.

Additionally, making Hellbats better against melee just does more to solidify the Zergling's death in the matchup. With infestors gone (hopefully), Hellbats will force Zerg even further into Roach play in order to handle a now much stronger bio force, which I'm going to guess and say that it will lead into a lot of MMM against Roach Hydra Viper even with the "general mech buffs." I'm not sure yet how I feel about this, actually.
Valon
Profile Joined June 2011
United States329 Posts
December 03 2012 18:26 GMT
#11
I like it wish they would provide more info on how they plant to nerf the infestors, obviously the projectile to fungal. Need more info before I decide if I like that one. Especially love the vortex, thor/raven and hydra change.
MyFirstProbe
Profile Joined April 2011
Netherlands294 Posts
December 03 2012 18:26 GMT
#12
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.


I don't get what he's trying to say here, does he say it's not a counter to all late tech zerg and he wants it to be just that, or does he not like that zerg can't go air with tempest in play, which I think is not true, but I'm not a game designer.
Inf-badguy
Profile Joined July 2003
Canada171 Posts
December 03 2012 18:27 GMT
#13
Exciting stuff overall. These sound like pretty good changes as a whole. I'm a bit disappointed to see the carrier still isn't being addressed at this point but I guess there's still time to take a crack at it.

I'm a bit curious as to how they are going to design the void ray? It seems like it would be very powerful if you could just activate its high power beam willy nilly.

Oracle locking down workers instead of mineral patches might be a neat idea, I wonder if they will go in that direction?
LOLItsRyann
Profile Joined April 2011
England551 Posts
December 03 2012 18:27 GMT
#14
Sounds good to me. Are they still buffing the Swarm hosts health? I really hope so, I think it's too squishy at the moment.
EG<3
papaz
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden4149 Posts
December 03 2012 18:28 GMT
#15
Great changes, liking what I read about Terran!
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
December 03 2012 18:28 GMT
#16
On December 04 2012 03:18 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 03:12 spbelky wrote:
O Dayvie, such good intentions. But does he have the tools and knowledge to pull it off?


He's a genious compared to 99% of the balance whiners on TL and he made sc2, so I guess its ezpzlsqz for him.

I like the changes alot!


What changes? DK posts ideas and thoughts about the game, not actual changes. This is what I mean. DK is much smarter and more qualified than just about everyone, but that doesn't mean he will succeed. Just because he compiles a list of logical ideas on how to fix the game, doesn't mean it will actually happen or actually work.

On the bright side, at least Blizzard is being a bit more open about the game's development. Hopefully we can see a PTR build in the coming days.
GattAttack
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Canada202 Posts
December 03 2012 18:29 GMT
#17
On December 04 2012 03:26 MyFirstProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.


I don't get what he's trying to say here, does he say it's not a counter to all late tech zerg and he wants it to be just that, or does he not like that zerg can't go air with tempest in play, which I think is not true, but I'm not a game designer.


Ya that sentence is a little awkward, but I believe what he is saying is that they are looking into nerfing the effectiveness of Tempest against late game zerg tech (i.e ultra/broods).

I'm actually quite happy about this because late game templar tempest usage is actually insanely efficient.
spbelky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States623 Posts
December 03 2012 18:30 GMT
#18
On December 04 2012 03:26 MyFirstProbe wrote:
Show nested quote +
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.


I don't get what he's trying to say here, does he say it's not a counter to all late tech zerg and he wants it to be just that, or does he not like that zerg can't go air with tempest in play, which I think is not true, but I'm not a game designer.


If you've played beta you would recognize that most zergs are hesitant to go BL or Ultra due to the ease with with Protoss can swap to Tempests and hard-counter both. DK is suggesting that they want to modify the Tempest so it isn't SO good against BOTH Ultralisk AND Broodlord.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
December 03 2012 18:33 GMT
#19
All of that sound very good. oO

I hope they have good ideas to atteign these goals tho.

Air and Vehicule upgrades being mixed sound already awesome because of the Mech into Sky terran possibilities
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
therockmanxx
Profile Joined July 2010
Peru1174 Posts
December 03 2012 18:33 GMT
#20
I like the way this game is going !!
LoV will become the ultimate RTS game ever !!
Tekken ProGamer
1 2 3 4 5 27 28 29 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LAN Event
18:00
Stellar Fest: Day 1
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
ComeBackTV 853
UrsaTVCanada550
IndyStarCraft 260
CranKy Ducklings241
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
White-Ra 268
IndyStarCraft 260
UpATreeSC 106
JuggernautJason71
Railgan 51
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 175
Backho 53
sas.Sziky 47
Bale 7
League of Legends
Trikslyr52
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1227
pashabiceps989
byalli833
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu372
Other Games
Grubby3270
qojqva1391
Beastyqt763
B2W.Neo444
Mlord418
shahzam399
fl0m379
ToD100
C9.Mang096
QueenE50
ViBE29
ZombieGrub28
OptimusSC210
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL146
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 44
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 17
• 80smullet 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4325
League of Legends
• Nemesis3619
• imaqtpie1883
• TFBlade1022
Other Games
• Shiphtur241
• tFFMrPink 12
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
6h 31m
CranKy Ducklings
13h 31m
IPSL
21h 31m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
21h 31m
BSL 21
23h 31m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 15h
IPSL
1d 21h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
LAN Event
1d 21h
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
1d 23h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.