On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
Terran 1. Redesign Thor ability/Raven seeker missile 2. Push early game Reaper a bit more
How about adding mid/lategame utility instead?
3. Hellbats better against melee units, not necessarily better vs. Ranged.
Can someone explain this one to me? Aren't they already brutal against melee?
4. We'd really like to see more Medivac usage like we saw in Wings for a time in the past. Currently thinking on a cooldown based speed booster ability.
...reverting the change to speed back in the early days. I'm not sure how the result differs.
5. Buff Bio in the late game - with the addition of new units in HotS, we feel Bio in the late game is a bit weak. 6. Buff mech in general - we'd like to maybe test combining the vehicle and air upgrades at the armory.
Zerg 1. Hydralisk movement speed upgrade to Lair 2. Mutalisk buff to speed and/or acceleration 3. Ultralisk changed to be good vs. all ground 4. Nerf Infestor quite heavily 5. Make it easier to unburrow and reposition Swarm Hosts
Protoss 1. Redesign Voidray - we're currently thinking of having the player choose when to activate the charge.
Of all the obstacles to Stargate play, I don't see this as making real progress in changing that.
2. Oracle - pulsar beam would now overlap too much with the new Voidray, so we'd like to change the Oracle to be more of a worker harasser.
Raid unit, right...
3. Buff DTs not necessarily for the DT rush case, but to have DTs more often in the late game.
How about combining Dark Shrine with Templar Archives? It's been shown that the TA doesn't arrive in time to stop the common stim timings on its own (it relies on the Colossus transition, for the most part) - wouldn't having DTs in time for that make a huge difference in how the midgame unfolds? Detection has always been the sticking point, and they can (with Widow Mines) finally put that one to rest.
4. Nerf Vortex - we don't like how all or nothing this ability is in Wings, and with new unit adds, we feel we can remove or phase out this ability.
golf clap
5. Tempest doesn't counter all late tech Zerg. We currently don't like how Zerg can't go Tier 3 units if Tempests are in play.
How wedded are we to the damage boost against massive units?
6. Make Voidray + Phoenix + Oracle combo a viable strat overall.
A good idea for the Void Ray redesign, already been said a few times, is to make it an anti-spell caster.
Move the damage bonus against massive to psionic. Make the unit under the VR attack unable to use spells or abilites. Think about it. No EMP, no Storm, no FF/GShield, no Infested terrans/Fungal, no blink, no phase shift mode, no burrow, no stim... maybe no heal? Carriers and Mommaship being immune ofc, because that would make it too much of a counter.
That sounds very promising. As a Mutalisk lover I'm expecting a hilarious acceleration buff.
I guess the infestor nerf is probably the biggest unknown at this point. I'm calling it now: they'll try something awful that no one else expected, people will hate it, and they will get it right after 2-3 tries.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
My biggest complaint about the widow mine is that it can attack cloaked units without detection. I just don't see how that makes any sense at all.
Sometimes I think of it like an amove version of a burrowed baneling. Doesn't require any micro to use, yet it does massive damage to anything that comes in it's path.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
Your post is garbage. You didn't even respond to him. No one here is arguing about Infestors being op or not. Take your whining elsewhere.
God speed. Looks like the current weeks with no changes to the game will be hit by a big wave. If the intended changes turn out the way they want it i might star sailing on the battle.net.
I am still partially shocked that they've kept (or at least not implied that they're getting rid of) the widow mines auto detection abilities and the MSC having such early detection. Besides that it seems like most of this is good, hopefully we see the patch notes soon
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
Your post is garbage. You didn't even respond to him. No one here is arguing about Infestors being op or not. Take your whining elsewhere.
What exactly is the point of responding to someone who claims something is broken when it manifestly isn't? So you can't blindly harass a terran base by clicking A somewhere behind their mineral line anymore and expect to get away with it. Tough titties. A zerg in particular has no leaway in this argument because their overlord and creep spread when done well gives them TOTAL MAP VISION.
All of a sudden, when your flock of mutalisks can't just waltz into a base and snipe off four or five scvs before running away, this is a bad thing? Welcome to the life of every terran since 2010, when the "muta flock" timing which basically totally shut down drop play has been replaced by the "any number of infestors sat around a spine crawler" timing.
Note, I am only bringing this up in response to this idea that the Widow Mine in its current, useless past 12 minutes form is in any way "OP". This is a static defense which fires once every 40 seconds which I have to infest gas, minerals and SUPPLY into. It should pack a punch. It should punish lazy players.
If you die to it, that is what you are. Lazy. Stop being lazy and pay attention to your harassment instead of just clicking behind a mineral line and only paying attention when the computer screams at you about the hive cluster being under attack and you see a bit of red around your green. Even as a shitty Gold terran I still need to be careful about where I drop. The number of times I've seen a zerg or a protoss just take 10 supply of units and click somewhere behind the mineral line - well it's about bloody time you were punished for it.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
Your post is garbage. You didn't even respond to him. No one here is arguing about Infestors being op or not. Take your whining elsewhere.
What exactly is the point of responding to someone who claims something is broken when it manifestly isn't? So you can't blindly harass a terran base by clicking A somewhere behind their mineral line anymore and expect to get away with it. Tough titties. A zerg in particular has no leaway in this argument because their overlord and creep spread when done well gives them TOTAL MAP VISION.
All of a sudden, when your flock of mutalisks can't just waltz into a base and snipe off four or five scvs before running away, this is a bad thing? Welcome to the life of every terran since 2010, when the "muta flock" timing which basically totally shut down drop play has been replaced by the "any number of infestors sat around a spine crawler" timing.
Note, I am only bringing this up in response to this idea that the Widow Mine in its current, useless past 12 minutes form is in any way "OP". This is a static defense which fires once every 40 seconds which I have to infest gas, minerals and SUPPLY into. It should pack a punch. It should punish lazy players.
If you die to it, that is what you are. Lazy. Stop being lazy and pay attention to your harassment instead of just clicking behind a mineral line and only paying attention when the computer screams at you about the hive cluster being under attack and you see a bit of red around your green. Even as a shitty Gold terran I still need to be careful about where I drop. The number of times I've seen a zerg or a protoss just take 10 supply of units and click somewhere behind the mineral line - well it's about bloody time you were punished for it.
dont call people lazy and want a 0 apm safe vs everything mine. thats just...well just think before you post. but had to laugh that terran were struggling since 2010 vs zerg. 60% winrate at that times was really hard for terrans lol.
the mine cost too much supply but it shutting down all DT/banshee/muta/dropplay for basically free is retarded.
making ultras good vs all ground is music to my ears
Agreed. Rather than simply buffing ultra's against certain units or general stats I'd like them to utilize their new physics changes to do something similar to the following.
- Stampede: a charge-like ability that crushes opponents units (rather than pathing around) doing AOE damage to all units underneath and tossing them into the air (similar to death animation).
or
- Adding AOE damage to the current burrowed charge when the ultra emerges from the ground tossing the opponents units into air. Imagine an ultra unburrowing under a bunch of marines tossing them into the air causing some level of AOE damage.
This way even if we loose much or all of the AOE from infestors we get some back using much cooler more zergy mechanics. The charge mechanic or burrow mechanic likely shouldn't be a passive ability so that some level of micro is required so that it is not to strong and it is more interesting.
Just a thought on possible methods of Ultra buff that could add something interesting to the game rather than a simple stats buff against units.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
HotS is having much more problem with Vipers and Tempests than Widow Mines. Yes they are strong in early game, but both Z and P have tools to handle it, if they are used offensively. They are good defensively, just like Queens, MSC etc. But they are not contributing anything to the lategame at all, they are only supply sink right now as the game progresses.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
HotS is having much more problem with Vipers and Tempests than Widow Mines. Yes they are strong in early game, but both Z and P have tools to handle it, if they are used offensively. They are good defensively, just like Queens, MSC etc. But they are not contributing anything to the lategame at all, they are only supply sink right now as the game progresses.
Well it shouldn't hit air at minimum (cloaked to) it makes it so terran can defend against that harassment even easier. I think they would have to be buffed or something to compensate maybe, but they do need to lose AA because they make mutalisks not viable right now.
On December 04 2012 04:17 leova wrote: DT and Muta buffs are UNNECESSARY....
JUST FIX THE FREAKIN WIDOW MINE
having it NOT hit Air/Cloaked (since its, duh, and underground unit with no detection abilities) would be an easy fix, and take care of a LOT of problems HotS is having now
The Widow Mine is fine. If you think the Widow Mine is a harsh drop defence you should play against Infestors in WoL. Now that is a comically imbalanced situation.
"Oh, hey, by the way. Here's a unit that's faster than your drop vehicle which can not only root your unit while doing damage, but prevent it from dropping entirely, nuke anything it actually dropped and if that wasn't enough, it can kill it off with spawned, free units BEFORE IT CAN EVEN LEAVE.
Your post is garbage. You didn't even respond to him. No one here is arguing about Infestors being op or not. Take your whining elsewhere.
What exactly is the point of responding to someone who claims something is broken when it manifestly isn't? So you can't blindly harass a terran base by clicking A somewhere behind their mineral line anymore and expect to get away with it. Tough titties. A zerg in particular has no leaway in this argument because their overlord and creep spread when done well gives them TOTAL MAP VISION.
All of a sudden, when your flock of mutalisks can't just waltz into a base and snipe off four or five scvs before running away, this is a bad thing? Welcome to the life of every terran since 2010, when the "muta flock" timing which basically totally shut down drop play has been replaced by the "any number of infestors sat around a spine crawler" timing.
Note, I am only bringing this up in response to this idea that the Widow Mine in its current, useless past 12 minutes form is in any way "OP". This is a static defense which fires once every 40 seconds which I have to infest gas, minerals and SUPPLY into. It should pack a punch. It should punish lazy players.
If you die to it, that is what you are. Lazy. Stop being lazy and pay attention to your harassment instead of just clicking behind a mineral line and only paying attention when the computer screams at you about the hive cluster being under attack and you see a bit of red around your green. Even as a shitty Gold terran I still need to be careful about where I drop. The number of times I've seen a zerg or a protoss just take 10 supply of units and click somewhere behind the mineral line - well it's about bloody time you were punished for it.
dont call people lazy and want a 0 apm safe vs everything mine. thats just...well just think before you post. but had to laugh that terran were struggling since 2010 vs zerg. 60% winrate at that times was really hard for terrans lol.
the mine cost too much supply but it shutting down all DT/banshee/muta/dropplay for basically free is retarded.
It's not for "free". It costs supply. It costs minerals and gas. It costs the same supply as the bloody DT itself!
You tell me why I should have to put down detection everywhere my Widow Mines are so their range 5, 40s cooldown attack can actually do what they are supposed to do. "Oh, is there a turret in the middle of nowhere I see? I WONDER WHAT THAT IS."
I can maybe get some of the arguments that it makes early game defence at a ramp unnecessary against DTs, which I must admit I agree with. However, removing it altogether? Absolute nonsense. If you're committing supply to a harass and I've committed supply to a defence, then the onus is on you to avoid the defence. For protoss, there are no less than 3 or so different ways you can go about doing this, not to mention taking advantage of the fact that the bloody thing fires once every 40s. That's 40s of unmitigated harassment you have. Have fun with it.
EPT
