EPTHow does MMR work with unranked/ranked matchmaking
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
Unranked if you lose it doesn't affect your ladder ranking or MMR, if you win and your opponent was playing ranked then he will lose points while nothing happens to you. For your other question, if you played unranked matches for 2 days then back to ranked matches no you will not play new players since your rank will not have gone up or down when playing unranked mode. | ||
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On November 19 2012 17:14 Fliparoni wrote: So I'm guessing that when they do the matchmaking thing for unranked matches they place you against people of similar MMR based on wherever you are in ranked mode? Yes, they just take your MMR and use that to match you. | ||
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Fliparoni
205 Posts
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On November 19 2012 17:21 Fliparoni wrote: So I wonder how it works then if you haven't played any ranked matches and haven't even done any placement matches. They just match you with other people like that? What if you decide to play nothing but unranked and never touch the ranked ladder? How will the matchmaking system work then. I would assume (because of how it works in other games) that unranked has a hidden MMR of its own. So if you haven't played ranked, your unranked MMR is set to some decently low standard value, and as you win/lose games, this MMR changes (not to be confused with your ranked MMR, which isn't affected at all). Really, unranked, just like "normal" in League of Legends, just refers to the fact that you don't know your skill and you're not given a rank. You're still matched against people of similar skill. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On November 19 2012 17:21 Fliparoni wrote: So I wonder how it works then if you haven't played any ranked matches and haven't even done any placement matches. They just match you with other people like that? What if you decide to play nothing but unranked and never touch the ranked ladder? How will the matchmaking system work then. You begin with a default value. As you beginning to win or lose versus players who already have an MMR, your MMR gets adjusted. If you decide then to begin ranked play, you begin with the MMR you had from unranked play. But as you continue to play ranked, that ranked MMR will be seperate. So you can offrace unranked and play your main race ranked. | ||
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SamsLiST
Germany184 Posts
On November 19 2012 19:11 [F_]aths wrote: You begin with a default value. As you beginning to win or lose versus players who already have an MMR, your MMR gets adjusted. If you decide then to begin ranked play, you begin with the MMR you had from unranked play. But as you continue to play ranked, that ranked MMR will be seperate. So you can offrace unranked and play your main race ranked. there goes my plan to place in bronze and slay them for the rest of my days TT | ||
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SoulWager
United States464 Posts
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Iranon
United States983 Posts
On November 20 2012 02:22 SoulWager wrote: Do unranked games affect an unranked specific MMR? Yes, almost certainly there will be two separate MMRs, one mostly hidden for ranked play and one completely hidden for unranked play. They should evolve in isolation, using ranked wins/losses against any opponent to alter your ranked MMR and unranked wins/losses against any opponent to alter your unranked MMR. The first game you play of either type should use your MMR from the other type as a default starting place, with your actual first game ever of either type starting at some reasonably low (but not bottom-of-the-barrel low) starting value. | ||
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SoulWager
United States464 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5219 Posts
My guess is there is two MMRs. | ||
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wUndertUnge
United States1125 Posts
On November 19 2012 19:11 [F_]aths wrote: You begin with a default value. As you beginning to win or lose versus players who already have an MMR, your MMR gets adjusted. If you decide then to begin ranked play, you begin with the MMR you had from unranked play. But as you continue to play ranked, that ranked MMR will be seperate. So you can offrace unranked and play your main race ranked. i think the 2nd half of your statement is incorrect. You begin ranked play with the MMR you had from ranked play. the only time ranked and unranked interact is if you have a white slate of MMR in unranked, it defaults to your ranked but then keeps a separate unranked MMR. For example, when I offrace as terran in unranked, I'll begin with the MMR I have as Zerg in ranked play. My unranked MMR will drop for unranked matches. Then when I go back into ranked matches, it will have an MMR consistent with my last ranked match. ergo, two different MMRs that do not affect each other past the first unranked game. | ||
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Prime Directive
United States186 Posts
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
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TibblesEvilCat
United Kingdom766 Posts
On November 20 2012 02:42 BronzeKnee wrote: I went 16-4 as last season as a Platinum in HOTS. Decided to play unranked this season. I am consistently being matched up versus Masters and Grandmasters players now. When I go back to ranked I'll be curious who I play. My guess is there is two MMRs. i have the same thing, in unnranked it almost always vs masters/gm hots where as in ladder ranked im vs silver/bronze, both of which offer interesting dynamics to the game, both of which dont alwats give me the correct balance of oppoment, but then again i've onlt played like 400 games of hots so far :/ so maybe my mmr is so horribley wrong that who i face is right  | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
On November 20 2012 07:29 TibblesEvilCat wrote: i have the same thing, in unnranked it almost always vs masters/gm hots where as in ladder ranked im vs silver/bronze, both of which offer interesting dynamics to the game, both of which dont alwats give me the correct balance of oppoment, but then again i've onlt played like 400 games of hots so far :/ so maybe my mmr is so horribley wrong that who i face is right Maybe these master/GM players came in at the beginning. Now that there are more players, and they couldnt keep up with the skill level, they switched to unranked. I am only theorizing. | ||
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ETisME
12720 Posts
I feel through, their league in HOTS isn't so accurate, some gold players are obviously at least plat level and some diamond is way higher than he should be (no toss deathball micro, whole army a move dealing with drops etc) | ||
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
On November 20 2012 07:19 Deckkie wrote: It is explained here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=slyTsK3hp2o#t=142s This video explains it perfectly. Unranked MMR starts based on your ranked MMR (or from scratch if you have no ranked mmr). As you play more unranked it acts as a separate mmr that is hidden. | ||
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Azoryen
Portugal242 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Cu6tG.jpg) Once you visualize it this way, it's much easier to understand. So, don't listen to anyone saying there are 2 separate MMR lists or that MMRs are frozen when you play unranked, this is how it works: 1) There is only 1 MMR system. The B account has its own independent MMR, but it IS in the same MMR system of A accounts. If the MMR list was public, it would look like this: A Joe: 1762 A Mike: 1748 A Bill: 1735 B Joe 1732 A Nick 1727 B Mike 1722 B Nick 1718 B Bill 1713 2) A and B accounts CAN be paired against each other and they DO win/loose MMR points against each other every game E.g.: B Joe (1732) beats A Nick (1727) and the point variation is +-15. The new MMRs of these accounts are now: B Joe 1747 A Nick 1712 3) The A account alone determines your ladder The MMR of your A account will still determine your league and results count for divisions. Your games with your B account are ignored for everything ladder related. However, the MMR of the B account is changing every time you play with it and if it rises a lot, you will notice you are getting paired against A accounts from higher leagues. So you can estimate the league your B account would be. As a final note, it makes sense that Blizzard is using the word 'Unranked' instead of 'Unrated'. Ranking for Blizzard means ladder: leagues, division. MMR is the Rating of the account, so calling it Unrated play would be incorrect. In case you are somewhat skeptical about this, I recommed this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=slyTsK3hp2o#t=142s Everything I'm saying is directly deduction from Dabiri's words. | ||
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pikey26
United States23 Posts
If that's right, I seem to have understood, very nice/informative post. Thank you. ps. lol maybe I shouldn't have just dropped out of all those Unranked games to go to the bathroom or grab a drink because I queued without really giving a shit. | ||
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doggy
Germany306 Posts
On December 23 2012 20:08 pikey26 wrote: So in short, Unranked is essentially a secondary/'hidden' account that is on the same MMR/matchmaking pool as Ranked, and that you can be queued for an Unranked game and face those who are queued for Ranked games? If that's right, I seem to have understood, very nice/informative post. Thank you. ps. lol maybe I shouldn't have just dropped out of all those Unranked games to go to the bathroom or grab a drink because I queued without really giving a shit. Im pretty sure it works like that. Despite being GM ranked, i got matched with diamonds, masters and plats today once i started a few unranked games. | ||
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Pzl
Denmark6 Posts
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On December 21 2012 09:58 Azoryen wrote: Given that there is a lot of confusion and misleading posts in the forum about this, I made a small jpg to help you visualize how this works: Once you visualize it this way, it's much easier to understand. So, don't listen to anyone saying there are 2 separate MMR lists or that MMRs are frozen when you play unranked, this is how it works: 1) There is only 1 MMR system. The B account has its own independent MMR, but it IS in the same MMR system of A accounts. If the MMR list was public, it would look like this: A Joe: 1762 A Mike: 1748 A Bill: 1735 B Joe 1732 A Nick 1727 B Mike 1722 B Nick 1718 B Bill 1713 2) A and B accounts CAN be paired against each other and they DO win/loose MMR points against each other every game E.g.: B Joe (1732) beats A Nick (1727) and the point variation is +-15. The new MMRs of these accounts are now: B Joe 1747 A Nick 1712 3) The A account alone determines your ladder The MMR of your A account will still determine your league and results count for divisions. Your games with your B account are ignored for everything ladder related. However, the MMR of the B account is changing every time you play with it and if it rises a lot, you will notice you are getting paired against A accounts from higher leagues. So you can estimate the league your B account would be. As a final note, it makes sense that Blizzard is using the word 'Unranked' instead of 'Unrated'. Ranking for Blizzard means ladder: leagues, division. MMR is the Rating of the account, so calling it Unrated play would be incorrect. In case you are somewhat skeptical about this, I recommed this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=slyTsK3hp2o#t=142s Everything I'm saying is directly deduction from Dabiri's words. If I wanted to get promoted to masters from rank 1 diamond where I have a 70%~ winrate, it is not possible for me to grind unranked games to get my MMR up and then play a single ranked game afterwards hoping that it will promote me based on my unranked MMR? I don't have any more bonus pool and if I can retain some of that while still grinding and getting promoted to masters that would be ideal. The above post would indicate I can't do that though as unranked has it's separate MMR despite unranked and ranked accounts being able to play against eachother. (assuming I read this right) | ||
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Pzl
Denmark6 Posts
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llIH
Norway2147 Posts
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exKid
United Kingdom118 Posts
On February 22 2013 00:30 Grobyc wrote: Seeing as how this is already bumped, I have a question that I think the below post already answers, but I'll bite.+ Show Spoiler + On December 21 2012 09:58 Azoryen wrote: Given that there is a lot of confusion and misleading posts in the forum about this, I made a small jpg to help you visualize how this works: Once you visualize it this way, it's much easier to understand. So, don't listen to anyone saying there are 2 separate MMR lists or that MMRs are frozen when you play unranked, this is how it works: 1) There is only 1 MMR system. The B account has its own independent MMR, but it IS in the same MMR system of A accounts. If the MMR list was public, it would look like this: A Joe: 1762 A Mike: 1748 A Bill: 1735 B Joe 1732 A Nick 1727 B Mike 1722 B Nick 1718 B Bill 1713 2) A and B accounts CAN be paired against each other and they DO win/loose MMR points against each other every game E.g.: B Joe (1732) beats A Nick (1727) and the point variation is +-15. The new MMRs of these accounts are now: B Joe 1747 A Nick 1712 3) The A account alone determines your ladder The MMR of your A account will still determine your league and results count for divisions. Your games with your B account are ignored for everything ladder related. However, the MMR of the B account is changing every time you play with it and if it rises a lot, you will notice you are getting paired against A accounts from higher leagues. So you can estimate the league your B account would be. As a final note, it makes sense that Blizzard is using the word 'Unranked' instead of 'Unrated'. Ranking for Blizzard means ladder: leagues, division. MMR is the Rating of the account, so calling it Unrated play would be incorrect. In case you are somewhat skeptical about this, I recommed this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=slyTsK3hp2o#t=142s Everything I'm saying is directly deduction from Dabiri's words. If I wanted to get promoted to masters from rank 1 diamond where I have a 70%~ winrate, it is not possible for me to grind unranked games to get my MMR up and then play a single ranked game afterwards hoping that it will promote me based on my unranked MMR? I don't have any more bonus pool and if I can retain some of that while still grinding and getting promoted to masters that would be ideal. The above post would indicate I can't do that though as unranked has it's separate MMR despite unranked and ranked accounts being able to play against eachother. (assuming I read this right) Your right. You cannot boost your Ranked account by playing unranked matches, they are totally independent in that sense. On February 22 2013 00:40 Pzl wrote: I refuse to believe that Ranked and Unranked matches have any effect on each other. That would go against the whole purpose of adding the Unranked option to begin with. Uranked is for practicing or simply fooling around without worrying about the consequences. And Ranked is all business. No? It wouldn't make sense if you could manipulate your MMR. At least not in my opinion Believe what you will. It can clearly be seen that Ranked players gain and lose points when facing Unranked opponents. On February 22 2013 01:03 llIH wrote: For some reason I am meeting total different skilled players when playing unranked. I play ranked for that reason. I found I met a wide variety of opponents also. I put it down to the low population and the fact that its a beta so a lot of people might be using one of their Ranked or Unranked accounts to 'mess around' and smurf a little. | ||
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Pzl
Denmark6 Posts
Believe what you will. It can clearly be seen that Ranked players gain and lose points when facing Unranked opponents. I wasn't making myself clear, because obviously what you just said is true. I simply meant that playing Unranked games will never affect your Ranked MMR. And vice versa | ||
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Schlendrian
49 Posts
quick question on this topic: If I switch races in unranked mode, will I get a new MMR for the new race, or will it keep the one from my main race? I think I read something like this in a David Kim post when they introduced the unranked play, to make it more like a place to practice. But I can't find it anymore...or maybe I was just trippin. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On February 22 2013 02:11 Schlendrian wrote: Hey guys, quick question on this topic: If I switch races in unranked mode, will I get a new MMR for the new race, or will it keep the one from my main race? I think I read something like this in a David Kim post when they introduced the unranked play, to make it more like a place to practice. But I can't find it anymore...or maybe I was just trippin. As far as I know, you will keep the same MMR, so your main race's MMR. If you start losing a bunch of games with your offrace in unranked, it has absolutely no impact on your ranked MMR, so you can indeed practice your offrace until you play against kind of the same level of opponents you were playing with your main, then switch to your ranked account to continue laddering with your new race. | ||
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Pzl
Denmark6 Posts
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