EPT
TvP Mech still not viable? - Page 29
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 13 2012 12:44 SarcasmMonster wrote: Every mech unit got direct buffs since the start of the Beta except for Siege tanks They're fine in TvT and TvZ though . They need something ( problably against shields ) that makes them work against Toss reliably. | ||
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On December 13 2012 12:54 s3rp wrote: They're fine in TvT and TvZ though . They need something ( problably against shields ) that makes them work against Toss reliably. How about the Shaped Blast upgrade from campaign? (but lets adjust it for multiplayer usage AND give a good reason to build tanks VS protoss) Have it Give siege tanks a Bonus of +15 VS shields along a 40% reduction in Friendly fire splash damage. Make it cost and build: Cost:150/100 Build time: 110 That way it gives tanks added usage late game in all match ups  | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On December 13 2012 12:54 s3rp wrote: They're fine in TvT and TvZ though . They need something ( problably against shields ) that makes them work against Toss reliably. I know you've recommended an upgrade that does extra damage vs shield but IMO it's too race specific and sloppy design. To make tanks better in TvP, the first change needs to be to the Immortal. My suggestion is to cap the Harden shield. For example, it reduces at MOST 25 damage per invocation. Hence Siege tanks will deal 25 damage when shields are still up. What's also great is that weapon upgrades will actually help tear down the shield quicker, whereas the current Harden shield just negates it. Ultralisks with attack upgrades will also have a easier time vs Immortals. IMO this change makes Immortals less of a super-hard counter. (I chose 25 as the cap because I think it's a fair number, but whatever number works is fine whether it's higher or lower). | ||
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
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starimk
106 Posts
On December 13 2012 13:02 SarcasmMonster wrote: I know you've recommended an upgrade that does extra damage vs shield but IMO it's too race specific and sloppy design. To make tanks better in TvP, the first change needs to be to the Immortal. My suggestion is to cap the Harden shield. For example, it reduces at MOST 25 damage per invocation. Hence Siege tanks will deal 25 damage when shields are still up. What's also great is that weapon upgrades will actually help tear down the shield quicker, whereas the current Harden shield just negates it. Ultralisks with attack upgrades will also have a easier time vs Immortals. IMO this change makes Immortals less of a super-hard counter. (I chose 25 as the cap because I think it's a fair number, but whatever number works is fine whether it's higher or lower). I feel that your proposed change would be too complex for Blizzard's standards, although it would help a lot with the binary nature of the Hardened Shield. I have another idea: what if Siege Tanks (and perhaps even Ultralisks as well) were given something like the Maelstrom Round upgrade from the campaign? This would allow the Tank to deal extra (let's say 20) spell damage to the primary target, while dealing normal splash damage to surrounding units. Spell damage would penetrate Hardened Shields, meaning that with focus fire Siege Tanks could hammer down the Hardened Shields much more quickly. I'm not sure how effective an anti-shield buff to Tanks would be. Maybe Zealot and Stalker shields would take 1 shot instead of 2 shots to bring down now with the upgrades... It feels that the primary problem with Siege Tanks vs. Protoss ground units is the immortal. | ||
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starimk
106 Posts
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s3rp
Germany3192 Posts
On December 13 2012 13:41 starimk wrote: I feel that your proposed change would be too complex for Blizzard's standards, although it would help a lot with the binary nature of the Hardened Shield. I have another idea: what if Siege Tanks (and perhaps even Ultralisks as well) were given something like the Maelstrom Round upgrade from the campaign? This would allow the Tank to deal extra (let's say 20) spell damage to the primary target, while dealing normal splash damage to surrounding units. Spell damage would penetrate Hardened Shields, meaning that with focus fire Siege Tanks could hammer down the Hardened Shields much more quickly. I'm not sure how effective an anti-shield buff to Tanks would be. Maybe Zealot and Stalker shields would take 1 shot instead of 2 shots to bring down now with the upgrades... It feels that the primary problem with Siege Tanks vs. Protoss ground units is the immortal. I disagree Zealots take 5 tank shots to kill and have Charge to quickly cover distances. Immortals surely don't help but Zealots are the main reason in my eyes .The second reason would be the Archon. That kills supposed solution for Zealots the hellbat way too fast thanks to Bio ... It's also extremely fast too reeinforce with those units thanks to warpgate even after a lost battle . | ||
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SarcasmMonster
3136 Posts
On December 13 2012 13:41 starimk wrote: I feel that your proposed change would be too complex for Blizzard's standards, although it would help a lot with the binary nature of the Hardened Shield. I have another idea: what if Siege Tanks (and perhaps even Ultralisks as well) were given something like the Maelstrom Round upgrade from the campaign? This would allow the Tank to deal extra (let's say 20) spell damage to the primary target, while dealing normal splash damage to surrounding units. Spell damage would penetrate Hardened Shields, meaning that with focus fire Siege Tanks could hammer down the Hardened Shields much more quickly. I'm not sure how effective an anti-shield buff to Tanks would be. Maybe Zealot and Stalker shields would take 1 shot instead of 2 shots to bring down now with the upgrades... It feels that the primary problem with Siege Tanks vs. Protoss ground units is the immortal. I don't think it's that complex. Jus change the tool tip to read An Immortal's passive ability that reduces all damage inflicted on the shields that is greater than 10 by 25 or to 10, whichever is less. Something like that. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 13 2012 13:40 EleanorRIgby wrote: void ray and tempest buff vs mech and now the upgrade nerf to air has completely killed mech now. blizz just buff tank damage vs shields and buff bcs a bit and go from there. im sorry....but why do terrans insist that mech works against all compositions | ||
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MugenXBanksy
United States479 Posts
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EleanorRIgby
Canada3923 Posts
On December 13 2012 14:31 SuperYo1000 wrote: im sorry....but why do terrans insist that mech works against all compositions because blizzard said they want to make mech viable in tvp.... | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On December 13 2012 13:44 starimk wrote: Also, I'm not sure if Blizzard has forgotten that the Battlecruiser is a Massive air unit as well... I understand that Blizzard wants to nerf Broodlords into the ground, but it would be nice for Terrans to use their capital air ships against Protoss... You can, Battlecruisers got buffed significantly compared to WoL (yay mech armor and air armor upgrades combined), and while the tempest is decent against them, protoss ground to air is pretty bad. Keep their energy low (yamato some rocks?) so you can't get killed by feedback, and remember their armor is so ridiculous (6 armor!) that they live forever. Adding a couple BC's (not more than 2-3) can really beef your army, because protoss isn't going to want to add tempests just for a couple BCs, and if they do the rest of their army will suffer. It was actually a thing for a while where terran would add 3 BC's to their end game army vs. protoss because protoss anti-air sucks vs. bio. | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On December 13 2012 12:54 s3rp wrote: They're fine in TvT and TvZ though . They need something ( problably against shields ) that makes them work against Toss reliably. I think with blinding cloud tanks are having a tough time even in TvZ now. I guess the problem with buffing tanks in TvP is the 1-1-1, so maybe a lategame upgrade for tanks would be a good fix. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 13 2012 15:47 MugenXBanksy wrote: Is this thread really necessary? Is it the end of the world if mech doesn't work in TvP I mean really does it matter? Since every Protoss can open nexus first and easily get to "late game" against Terran (ahead nonetheless), and at the same time gaining a TREMENDOUS boost to offensive capability early and mid game via MSC, it would make sense that Terran has an option to enter the late game with their balls still intact. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On December 13 2012 15:53 Whitewing wrote: You can, Battlecruisers got buffed significantly compared to WoL (yay mech armor and air armor upgrades combined), and while the tempest is decent against them, protoss ground to air is pretty bad. Keep their energy low (yamato some rocks?) so you can't get killed by feedback, and remember their armor is so ridiculous (6 armor!) that they live forever. Adding a couple BC's (not more than 2-3) can really beef your army, because protoss isn't going to want to add tempests just for a couple BCs, and if they do the rest of their army will suffer. It was actually a thing for a while where terran would add 3 BC's to their end game army vs. protoss because protoss anti-air sucks vs. bio. Sorry but 6 armor means nothing to a range 15 unit. I wouldn't mind if Yamato cannon had at least that range. That would allow at least *some* BC action in the late game, rather than its present flying tank form that everyone focuses down first. | ||
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SheaR619
United States2399 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On December 13 2012 17:29 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Sorry but 6 armor means nothing to a range 15 unit. I wouldn't mind if Yamato cannon had at least that range. That would allow at least *some* BC action in the late game, rather than its present flying tank form that everyone focuses down first. And let's not forget that the Tempest starts with 2 armor, has more effective health per supply, and outranges EVERY SINGLE COUNTER TO THE UNIT. | ||
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Twilight Sparkle
Australia235 Posts
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Dvriel
607 Posts
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