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On December 12 2012 17:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 17:19 Markwerf wrote:On December 12 2012 17:07 dani` wrote:On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. I've heard Banshees do pretty well against Immortals :-) I actually played a game yesterday against a meching Terran and his army was pretty damn scary. Lots and lots of Thors, a handful of Banshees, some Ravens, and of course Tanks and Hellions. Stalkers die so fast, that I feel it really opens up options to look at massing more Banshees and reign supreme when the Stalkers are down. I did win in the end because I identified Goody style early on due to fast Siege Tech + 2nd CC, so I just went 3rd Nexus / double Forge straight of the bat into relatively quick 5 base and massed Carriers while constantly harassing him on 100 workers for a long time but still, I would not say mech is dead. Au contraire, my friend. With the combined upgrades it has a lot of potential imo. My harassment was not very successful (dmg wise, it did buy me plenty of time though) as he had a lot of missile turrets and sensor towers so he was pretty impervious on 3 base while building his death ball. If the guy had the balls to just push out around 140 supply I would probably roll over and die. It would have also helped him if he would try some harassment of his own, he definitely could have done more. I'm at 233 points master league in HotS atm for your reference. My resources lost was waaaaaay higher than his btw, at least before the final battle where my Carriers had a nice high ground position and owned him pretty hard. "mech" can work now but it has little to do with the traditional mech of BW. It's more thor/banshee/hellbat with a few tanks in it. Tanks in itself are just not really interesting to mass against protoss because they are only really effective against stalkers and sentries, a decent protoss will be sure not to continue production in either of those making your tanks if massed just awful. Bio is the far more interesting style in TvP and get's at least a new potential tool in the raven. This new airmech is incredibly boring because it basically consists of some slow a-move units like hellbats, thors and banshee's. What good is it if blizzard get's mech 'working' but it's a stupid version of it that has nothing to do with the BW variant. BW mech has a lot of positional play because it's mostly tanks and has much more action going on with vulture harass and laying mines. SC2 mech has hardly any positional play and no real mines to speak off. BW's goliath vs carrier is also an interesting micro and positional fight, SC2's carrier/tempest vs viking/thor however is just not I agree. If TvP mech is turtle to 200/200 or/and mass Thor/Hellbat then we might as well not have any mech at all. There's no point in having a new strategy if it's boring as fuck to play and spectate.
Yes, except that that doesn't work at all because immortals. Tank/ghost/hellion aka ghost mech is way better than going mass thors imo.
I've played a bunch more mech TvP, lost a few from playing terrible, but also played a few and tempest still sorta hard counters mech. And I experimented with mass thors, and it turns out it's pretty bad if the protoss knows what they're doing aka triple robo immortal + archon + chargelot.
I think the only reason what thorzain did in TSL3 worked the few games he did it because it was very new at the time and Protoss has no developed standard response.
Nowadays if Protoss is competent and sees you are meching they immediately do one of two things (or both)
a) double stargate -> tempest / carriers / void ray to skew your unit comp one way or the other
b) double/triple robo for mass immortal with archon/chargelot as standard army vs army fighting composition
c) robo+stargate and mess with terran's unit comp
It's too early to really say if mech still sux i think because of the last patch vikings essentially were buffed as you'll now have 3/3 vikings when you upgrade mech, whereas before if you go mech (or bio) you will have 0/0 vikings vs 3/3/3 chargelot/archon/immortal. Which was ridiculous to be honest.
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On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked.
That's just... so sad. He should've surrendered out of self-respect for the better player.
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On December 13 2012 04:23 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. That's just... so sad. He should've surrendered out of self-respect for the better player.
I would love to see a replay of this game. I am sure a terrible, terrible engagement proceeded the amazing loss of units. Or a blob of a silly, unreasonable number of tanks.
Also, APM in HotS is totally messed up and not at all accurate. I often have 0 AMP, but totally make at least one action a minute.
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On December 13 2012 04:23 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 17:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 12 2012 17:19 Markwerf wrote:On December 12 2012 17:07 dani` wrote:On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. I've heard Banshees do pretty well against Immortals :-) I actually played a game yesterday against a meching Terran and his army was pretty damn scary. Lots and lots of Thors, a handful of Banshees, some Ravens, and of course Tanks and Hellions. Stalkers die so fast, that I feel it really opens up options to look at massing more Banshees and reign supreme when the Stalkers are down. I did win in the end because I identified Goody style early on due to fast Siege Tech + 2nd CC, so I just went 3rd Nexus / double Forge straight of the bat into relatively quick 5 base and massed Carriers while constantly harassing him on 100 workers for a long time but still, I would not say mech is dead. Au contraire, my friend. With the combined upgrades it has a lot of potential imo. My harassment was not very successful (dmg wise, it did buy me plenty of time though) as he had a lot of missile turrets and sensor towers so he was pretty impervious on 3 base while building his death ball. If the guy had the balls to just push out around 140 supply I would probably roll over and die. It would have also helped him if he would try some harassment of his own, he definitely could have done more. I'm at 233 points master league in HotS atm for your reference. My resources lost was waaaaaay higher than his btw, at least before the final battle where my Carriers had a nice high ground position and owned him pretty hard. "mech" can work now but it has little to do with the traditional mech of BW. It's more thor/banshee/hellbat with a few tanks in it. Tanks in itself are just not really interesting to mass against protoss because they are only really effective against stalkers and sentries, a decent protoss will be sure not to continue production in either of those making your tanks if massed just awful. Bio is the far more interesting style in TvP and get's at least a new potential tool in the raven. This new airmech is incredibly boring because it basically consists of some slow a-move units like hellbats, thors and banshee's. What good is it if blizzard get's mech 'working' but it's a stupid version of it that has nothing to do with the BW variant. BW mech has a lot of positional play because it's mostly tanks and has much more action going on with vulture harass and laying mines. SC2 mech has hardly any positional play and no real mines to speak off. BW's goliath vs carrier is also an interesting micro and positional fight, SC2's carrier/tempest vs viking/thor however is just not I agree. If TvP mech is turtle to 200/200 or/and mass Thor/Hellbat then we might as well not have any mech at all. There's no point in having a new strategy if it's boring as fuck to play and spectate. Yes, except that that doesn't work at all because immortals. Tank/ghost/hellion aka ghost mech is way better than going mass thors imo. I've played a bunch more mech TvP, lost a few from playing terrible, but also played a few and tempest still sorta hard counters mech. And I experimented with mass thors, and it turns out it's pretty bad if the protoss knows what they're doing aka triple robo immortal + archon + chargelot. I think the only reason what thorzain did in TSL3 worked the few games he did it because it was very new at the time and Protoss has no developed standard response. Nowadays if Protoss is competent and sees you are meching they immediately do one of two things (or both) a) double stargate -> tempest / carriers / void ray to skew your unit comp one way or the other b) double/triple robo for mass immortal with archon/chargelot as standard army vs army fighting composition c) robo+stargate and mess with terran's unit comp It's too early to really say if mech still sux i think because of the last patch vikings essentially were buffed as you'll now have 3/3 vikings when you upgrade mech, whereas before if you go mech (or bio) you will have 0/0 vikings vs 3/3/3 chargelot/archon/immortal. Which was ridiculous to be honest.
I hope you are right. I want to see games with Tank based mech like TvT not the borring mass Thors.
Have you found use for mines past the early game? Could they be used to help some against Immortals/ Archons to maybe not have Ghosts as a "must have"?
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I dont mind using ghosts in TvP mech.As we can see in BW there was the SVessel for EMPs and it was gas heavy.The issue here is that P player only must to amove,while T must continue making units,throw EMPs,PDDs,focusing with tanks and at the end of the engagement thay can warp like 20 zealots and kill all your stull.I barelly survived vs mass carriers+tampest and they just warp so many zelots and GG..
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On December 13 2012 04:23 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 17:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 12 2012 17:19 Markwerf wrote:On December 12 2012 17:07 dani` wrote:On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. I've heard Banshees do pretty well against Immortals :-) I actually played a game yesterday against a meching Terran and his army was pretty damn scary. Lots and lots of Thors, a handful of Banshees, some Ravens, and of course Tanks and Hellions. Stalkers die so fast, that I feel it really opens up options to look at massing more Banshees and reign supreme when the Stalkers are down. I did win in the end because I identified Goody style early on due to fast Siege Tech + 2nd CC, so I just went 3rd Nexus / double Forge straight of the bat into relatively quick 5 base and massed Carriers while constantly harassing him on 100 workers for a long time but still, I would not say mech is dead. Au contraire, my friend. With the combined upgrades it has a lot of potential imo. My harassment was not very successful (dmg wise, it did buy me plenty of time though) as he had a lot of missile turrets and sensor towers so he was pretty impervious on 3 base while building his death ball. If the guy had the balls to just push out around 140 supply I would probably roll over and die. It would have also helped him if he would try some harassment of his own, he definitely could have done more. I'm at 233 points master league in HotS atm for your reference. My resources lost was waaaaaay higher than his btw, at least before the final battle where my Carriers had a nice high ground position and owned him pretty hard. "mech" can work now but it has little to do with the traditional mech of BW. It's more thor/banshee/hellbat with a few tanks in it. Tanks in itself are just not really interesting to mass against protoss because they are only really effective against stalkers and sentries, a decent protoss will be sure not to continue production in either of those making your tanks if massed just awful. Bio is the far more interesting style in TvP and get's at least a new potential tool in the raven. This new airmech is incredibly boring because it basically consists of some slow a-move units like hellbats, thors and banshee's. What good is it if blizzard get's mech 'working' but it's a stupid version of it that has nothing to do with the BW variant. BW mech has a lot of positional play because it's mostly tanks and has much more action going on with vulture harass and laying mines. SC2 mech has hardly any positional play and no real mines to speak off. BW's goliath vs carrier is also an interesting micro and positional fight, SC2's carrier/tempest vs viking/thor however is just not I agree. If TvP mech is turtle to 200/200 or/and mass Thor/Hellbat then we might as well not have any mech at all. There's no point in having a new strategy if it's boring as fuck to play and spectate. Yes, except that that doesn't work at all because immortals. Tank/ghost/hellion aka ghost mech is way better than going mass thors imo. I've played a bunch more mech TvP, lost a few from playing terrible, but also played a few and tempest still sorta hard counters mech. And I experimented with mass thors, and it turns out it's pretty bad if the protoss knows what they're doing aka triple robo immortal + archon + chargelot. I think the only reason what thorzain did in TSL3 worked the few games he did it because it was very new at the time and Protoss has no developed standard response. Nowadays if Protoss is competent and sees you are meching they immediately do one of two things (or both) a) double stargate -> tempest / carriers / void ray to skew your unit comp one way or the other b) double/triple robo for mass immortal with archon/chargelot as standard army vs army fighting composition c) robo+stargate and mess with terran's unit comp It's too early to really say if mech still sux i think because of the last patch vikings essentially were buffed as you'll now have 3/3 vikings when you upgrade mech, whereas before if you go mech (or bio) you will have 0/0 vikings vs 3/3/3 chargelot/archon/immortal. Which was ridiculous to be honest.
I think you can add blink stalkers to that list. Haven't had it against me, although did see it being used against morrow, which was very effective. There is just no way I can see that you defend it with mech. Well yeah I can see a way to defend it, but that is completely turtling up in your base with siege tanks/mines at every location. Which should give the toss plenty of oppertunities to make a nice carrier army.
Have you found use for mines past the early game? Could they be used to help some against Immortals/ Archons to maybe not have Ghosts as a "must have"?
Then you pretty much have to pray they hit the correct one (you can only micro them very little). Takes a bit more micro, but late game the current seeker missiles is simply a better version of the widow mine, for the same population cost.
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On December 13 2012 04:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 04:23 avilo wrote:On December 12 2012 17:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 12 2012 17:19 Markwerf wrote:On December 12 2012 17:07 dani` wrote:On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. I've heard Banshees do pretty well against Immortals :-) I actually played a game yesterday against a meching Terran and his army was pretty damn scary. Lots and lots of Thors, a handful of Banshees, some Ravens, and of course Tanks and Hellions. Stalkers die so fast, that I feel it really opens up options to look at massing more Banshees and reign supreme when the Stalkers are down. I did win in the end because I identified Goody style early on due to fast Siege Tech + 2nd CC, so I just went 3rd Nexus / double Forge straight of the bat into relatively quick 5 base and massed Carriers while constantly harassing him on 100 workers for a long time but still, I would not say mech is dead. Au contraire, my friend. With the combined upgrades it has a lot of potential imo. My harassment was not very successful (dmg wise, it did buy me plenty of time though) as he had a lot of missile turrets and sensor towers so he was pretty impervious on 3 base while building his death ball. If the guy had the balls to just push out around 140 supply I would probably roll over and die. It would have also helped him if he would try some harassment of his own, he definitely could have done more. I'm at 233 points master league in HotS atm for your reference. My resources lost was waaaaaay higher than his btw, at least before the final battle where my Carriers had a nice high ground position and owned him pretty hard. "mech" can work now but it has little to do with the traditional mech of BW. It's more thor/banshee/hellbat with a few tanks in it. Tanks in itself are just not really interesting to mass against protoss because they are only really effective against stalkers and sentries, a decent protoss will be sure not to continue production in either of those making your tanks if massed just awful. Bio is the far more interesting style in TvP and get's at least a new potential tool in the raven. This new airmech is incredibly boring because it basically consists of some slow a-move units like hellbats, thors and banshee's. What good is it if blizzard get's mech 'working' but it's a stupid version of it that has nothing to do with the BW variant. BW mech has a lot of positional play because it's mostly tanks and has much more action going on with vulture harass and laying mines. SC2 mech has hardly any positional play and no real mines to speak off. BW's goliath vs carrier is also an interesting micro and positional fight, SC2's carrier/tempest vs viking/thor however is just not I agree. If TvP mech is turtle to 200/200 or/and mass Thor/Hellbat then we might as well not have any mech at all. There's no point in having a new strategy if it's boring as fuck to play and spectate. Yes, except that that doesn't work at all because immortals. Tank/ghost/hellion aka ghost mech is way better than going mass thors imo. I've played a bunch more mech TvP, lost a few from playing terrible, but also played a few and tempest still sorta hard counters mech. And I experimented with mass thors, and it turns out it's pretty bad if the protoss knows what they're doing aka triple robo immortal + archon + chargelot. I think the only reason what thorzain did in TSL3 worked the few games he did it because it was very new at the time and Protoss has no developed standard response. Nowadays if Protoss is competent and sees you are meching they immediately do one of two things (or both) a) double stargate -> tempest / carriers / void ray to skew your unit comp one way or the other b) double/triple robo for mass immortal with archon/chargelot as standard army vs army fighting composition c) robo+stargate and mess with terran's unit comp It's too early to really say if mech still sux i think because of the last patch vikings essentially were buffed as you'll now have 3/3 vikings when you upgrade mech, whereas before if you go mech (or bio) you will have 0/0 vikings vs 3/3/3 chargelot/archon/immortal. Which was ridiculous to be honest. I hope you are right. I want to see games with Tank based mech like TvT not the borring mass Thors. Have you found use for mines past the early game? Could they be used to help some against Immortals/ Archons to maybe not have Ghosts as a "must have"?
Well, they unbuffed vikings again so now we can say mech sucks again tvp (queue waterboy rob schneider "we suck again!") lol, 0/3 vikings on the ground vs 3/3/3 protoss ground...-_- GL to us trying to mech.
As for the thor/hellion/banshee composition you were talking about, it usually worked in wings of liberty when Protoss had no clue what to do, maybe the new version you're doing has potential I have no clue i could be wrong but from my experience mass immortal with archon+chargelot sorta steam rolls "weird" unit compositions from Terran.
The mines? Personally, I've started to try them lategame TvZ and they seem decent to specifically put under vikings vs brood/infestor, or to put in commonly traversed choke points...other than that I don't think they're too good late game TvT/TvP. THey are really good if it's a base trade though (or they have the potential to be in those situations).
Ghosts are a must have still i think vs immortals/templar.
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On December 13 2012 05:28 Dvriel wrote:
I dont mind using ghosts in TvP mech.As we can see in BW there was the SVessel for EMPs and it was gas heavy.The issue here is that P player only must to amove,while T must continue making units,throw EMPs,PDDs,focusing with tanks and at the end of the engagement thay can warp like 20 zealots and kill all your stull.I barelly survived vs mass carriers+tampest and they just warp so many zelots and GG..
yah, exactly this. the zealot warpin just fucking rapes whatever is left of your army.
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Lol,we are nerfed again...Now once again must build 3 armories to be able to die with honor vs the Protoss fleet.Blizzard still making too little steps "trying" to make Mech in TvP viable.
In the late game when I face Tempest+carriers happens this: I stop making hellbats and tanks and only go for Viking+Thor,but both of them attack the Carriers interceptors wasting their shots.Protoss doesnt need to focus fire and they only wait to see if they win or lose the battle to only warpin 50 supply of Zealots or Stalkers.Just cant do this...
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The merging of ship and vehicle upgrades is the wrong path to pursue, in my opinion, although it is a valid solution from a game design perspective. The merged upgrades make starport and factory units function together uniformly, which has advantages and disadvantages. On the one hand, it encourages making armories and using all the units upgraded by the armory in conjunction, which is an especially elegant solution with respect to Vikings which are both air and ground units. On the other hand this upgrade structure reduces the differentiation of these units, and causes units such as the Siege Tank to share upgrades with units like the Battlecruiser, which is very likely to be problematic for one or the other. Tanks are most likely going to get the short end of the stick due to their lower tech level and lack of present prominence, especially in TvP. Terrans will make more Starport units, and less Factory units under this structure, especially late game.
Separating the upgrades increases the cost to deploy one or the other, or both, effectively. At least in theory this should tend towards these units being self-sufficient and stronger independent of each other if the upgrades are separate. I prefer this model, where Terrans have to make decisions about which units they are going to use and to what extent. This also means armories may have to spend more time upgrading in order to get both factory and starport upgrades, but the result should be stronger when both are used together, upgraded, as more resources and time has been invested. I think it would be better to make some smart, selective buffs to Factory units, and keep the upgrades separate, rather than merge the upgrades and let the Factory lean on the more expensive Starport.
Partially merging the upgrades is inelegant and lacks the advantages of either purist strategy, and is inferior to either.
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On December 13 2012 09:34 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 04:59 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 13 2012 04:23 avilo wrote:On December 12 2012 17:52 Sapphire.lux wrote:On December 12 2012 17:19 Markwerf wrote:On December 12 2012 17:07 dani` wrote:On December 12 2012 16:36 Buchan wrote:
Just tried a Mech game vs Protoss.... By the end I lost 38000 to his 22000 resources lost. I had 227 apm he had 96 apm. The problem is that immortals are just wayyy too good against mech. So if they identify your going mech and just make a bunch of immortals you cant do anything. Even if you get decent emp's on the immortals you still get wrecked. I've heard Banshees do pretty well against Immortals :-) I actually played a game yesterday against a meching Terran and his army was pretty damn scary. Lots and lots of Thors, a handful of Banshees, some Ravens, and of course Tanks and Hellions. Stalkers die so fast, that I feel it really opens up options to look at massing more Banshees and reign supreme when the Stalkers are down. I did win in the end because I identified Goody style early on due to fast Siege Tech + 2nd CC, so I just went 3rd Nexus / double Forge straight of the bat into relatively quick 5 base and massed Carriers while constantly harassing him on 100 workers for a long time but still, I would not say mech is dead. Au contraire, my friend. With the combined upgrades it has a lot of potential imo. My harassment was not very successful (dmg wise, it did buy me plenty of time though) as he had a lot of missile turrets and sensor towers so he was pretty impervious on 3 base while building his death ball. If the guy had the balls to just push out around 140 supply I would probably roll over and die. It would have also helped him if he would try some harassment of his own, he definitely could have done more. I'm at 233 points master league in HotS atm for your reference. My resources lost was waaaaaay higher than his btw, at least before the final battle where my Carriers had a nice high ground position and owned him pretty hard. "mech" can work now but it has little to do with the traditional mech of BW. It's more thor/banshee/hellbat with a few tanks in it. Tanks in itself are just not really interesting to mass against protoss because they are only really effective against stalkers and sentries, a decent protoss will be sure not to continue production in either of those making your tanks if massed just awful. Bio is the far more interesting style in TvP and get's at least a new potential tool in the raven. This new airmech is incredibly boring because it basically consists of some slow a-move units like hellbats, thors and banshee's. What good is it if blizzard get's mech 'working' but it's a stupid version of it that has nothing to do with the BW variant. BW mech has a lot of positional play because it's mostly tanks and has much more action going on with vulture harass and laying mines. SC2 mech has hardly any positional play and no real mines to speak off. BW's goliath vs carrier is also an interesting micro and positional fight, SC2's carrier/tempest vs viking/thor however is just not I agree. If TvP mech is turtle to 200/200 or/and mass Thor/Hellbat then we might as well not have any mech at all. There's no point in having a new strategy if it's boring as fuck to play and spectate. Yes, except that that doesn't work at all because immortals. Tank/ghost/hellion aka ghost mech is way better than going mass thors imo. I've played a bunch more mech TvP, lost a few from playing terrible, but also played a few and tempest still sorta hard counters mech. And I experimented with mass thors, and it turns out it's pretty bad if the protoss knows what they're doing aka triple robo immortal + archon + chargelot. I think the only reason what thorzain did in TSL3 worked the few games he did it because it was very new at the time and Protoss has no developed standard response. Nowadays if Protoss is competent and sees you are meching they immediately do one of two things (or both) a) double stargate -> tempest / carriers / void ray to skew your unit comp one way or the other b) double/triple robo for mass immortal with archon/chargelot as standard army vs army fighting composition c) robo+stargate and mess with terran's unit comp It's too early to really say if mech still sux i think because of the last patch vikings essentially were buffed as you'll now have 3/3 vikings when you upgrade mech, whereas before if you go mech (or bio) you will have 0/0 vikings vs 3/3/3 chargelot/archon/immortal. Which was ridiculous to be honest. I hope you are right. I want to see games with Tank based mech like TvT not the borring mass Thors. Have you found use for mines past the early game? Could they be used to help some against Immortals/ Archons to maybe not have Ghosts as a "must have"? Well, they unbuffed vikings again so now we can say mech sucks again tvp (queue waterboy rob schneider "we suck again!") lol, 0/3 vikings on the ground vs 3/3/3 protoss ground...-_- GL to us trying to mech. As for the thor/hellion/banshee composition you were talking about, it usually worked in wings of liberty when Protoss had no clue what to do, maybe the new version you're doing has potential I have no clue i could be wrong but from my experience mass immortal with archon+chargelot sorta steam rolls "weird" unit compositions from Terran. The mines? Personally, I've started to try them lategame TvZ and they seem decent to specifically put under vikings vs brood/infestor, or to put in commonly traversed choke points...other than that I don't think they're too good late game TvT/TvP. THey are really good if it's a base trade though (or they have the potential to be in those situations). Ghosts are a must have still i think vs immortals/templar.
If you're 0-3 on air and using enough supply that would warrant an upgrade by the time protoss gets 3/3/3 then you're probably doing something wrong. I think Protoss is way too efficient against mech at the moment as well but that's just whining for whining's sake lol.
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To be fair, as a Meching Terran, I felt like the armory upgrade buff was far too much and needed to be reverted. With the Infestor nerf Vikings have a lot more potential against Zerg and it made the transition from Mech into Sky Terran way too easy. Of course I still like the insane amount of resources each base gives is a bigger problem, if Mech ever works in SC2 as it currently is it will be either a 2 base timing attack, a 3 base maxed out all-in or a split map and trade cost efficiently all game composition. I wish you had to get 4 or 5 bases to max out properly, would add so much more depth to the game :3
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Regarding Pursuit's comments, another possible solution to the high yield per base is to simply increase the amount of cost needed to max out on some armies. Tanks are a prime candidate for having their supply cost lowered to increase the quantity of resources needed to max out, while still leaving bio armies the same (they just max out quicker and for less cost than mech). SC2 needs to have supply costs adjusted across the board, and one aspect going into that adjustment needs to be that some armies need to be stronger and more expensive per supply than others.
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Regardless of mech being viable, is there a viable late game right now against protoss?
From my experience, hellbats are not that great with bio because they dont DPS quickly enough, and they can't kite. So you are basically left with the original bio composition, which still struggles late vs P.
I'm not sure how they can fix any of this since mine + hellbat are really just marginal against P.
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On December 13 2012 10:58 architecture wrote:
Regardless of mech being viable, is there a viable late game right now against protoss?
From my experience, hellbats are not that great with bio because they dont DPS quickly enough, and they can't kite. So you are basically left with the original bio composition, which still struggles late vs P.
I'm not sure how they can fix any of this since mine + hellbat are really just marginal against P.
make tanks have better attack upgrade scaling?
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Tempests now kill Thors faster D: And vikings have no attack upgrade share. It's just bad
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On December 13 2012 11:32 pOriishan wrote:
Tempests now kill Thors faster D: And vikings have no attack upgrade share. It's just bad
The first part is false.
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Tempests' v.massive bonus is air to air only.
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United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On December 13 2012 11:32 pOriishan wrote:
Tempests now kill Thors faster D: And vikings have no attack upgrade share. It's just bad
No, Tempests don't. Read Balance Update #8
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On December 13 2012 11:26 Zergrusher wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 10:58 architecture wrote:
Regardless of mech being viable, is there a viable late game right now against protoss?
From my experience, hellbats are not that great with bio because they dont DPS quickly enough, and they can't kite. So you are basically left with the original bio composition, which still struggles late vs P.
I'm not sure how they can fix any of this since mine + hellbat are really just marginal against P. make tanks have better attack upgrade scaling?
I don't think this would do the trick. Tanks would need better damage vs Shields maybe with an Upgrade or something to be really effective.
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EPT
