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On October 06 2012 10:44 CikaZombi wrote:
So if the Terran puts 1 mine in front of his base I can't ever sneak in with dts? Like ever? Even observers can retreat from turret fire if they have been hit once. A turret is one thing but an automated mine that sees and targets cloaked...
isnt mine unable to see cloack unit anymore?
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widow mines cost 2 supply, there was no way they could have remained a suicide unit. I think with the way they are now, it's a lot easier to balance, they could bump them up to 3 supply now since they are basically terran locusts.
MsC change is good, oracle? I'm not so certain, I felt like the oracle had more use as an anti-fungal machine but we shall see where they take it.
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On October 06 2012 10:26 Plansix wrote:
On a side note does 3 minerals a second sound like a lot to some people. I mean, its only 5 per work, per trip. What is the math on two of those digging into a building?
Not bothering with the math - it's an ability that costs 50 energy, and I'm not sure that even if it was passive that it would accomplish anything, given even token defense.
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On October 06 2012 10:48 Khalleb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:44 CikaZombi wrote:
So if the Terran puts 1 mine in front of his base I can't ever sneak in with dts? Like ever? Even observers can retreat from turret fire if they have been hit once. A turret is one thing but an automated mine that sees and targets cloaked... isnt mine unable to see cloack unit anymore?
mine can't see cloaked units, but it can attack them. And there is a cool down, if you send in one DT then the mine will go off, then just send in a 2nd one and profit while it's on cool down.
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On October 06 2012 10:48 Khalleb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:44 CikaZombi wrote:
So if the Terran puts 1 mine in front of his base I can't ever sneak in with dts? Like ever? Even observers can retreat from turret fire if they have been hit once. A turret is one thing but an automated mine that sees and targets cloaked... isnt mine unable to see cloack unit anymore?
Nah, they can now target cloaked and burrowed units.
Which is hilarious in TvT, or should I say, mines versus mines.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50978 Posts
so the widow mine is a siege reaver now?
On October 06 2012 10:50 Crawdad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:48 Khalleb wrote:On October 06 2012 10:44 CikaZombi wrote:
So if the Terran puts 1 mine in front of his base I can't ever sneak in with dts? Like ever? Even observers can retreat from turret fire if they have been hit once. A turret is one thing but an automated mine that sees and targets cloaked... isnt mine unable to see cloack unit anymore? Nah, they can now target cloaked and burrowed units. Which is hilarious in TvT, or should I say, mines versus mines.
lol so dumb.
seriously mines should not work on workers and other mines, because one is OP the other is stupid.
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On October 06 2012 10:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 10:29 CruelZeratul wrote:
Phase Shield seemed like a much better ability. This new one is pretty boring. I don't know, 3 minerals a second sounds pretty great. Bring me your supply depots!
I don't deny that it may be pretty effective, but it's just boring. Phase Shiled/Fungal/Blinding Cloud/what-have-you battles could have been sick, instead we get a lame, Mule like ability which does not add any excitement.
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On October 06 2012 10:18 iTzSnypah wrote:
Wait what?! The Widow Mine gets a mini-nuke? Also swarm hosts vs Widow Mines is going to be bonkers now. Going to be a wave of 'zombies' getting nuked and then again, over and over. Appealing eye candy but free vs free just sounds boring strategically.
Swarm hosts can probably beat widow mines since not only can locusts actually survive the splash from a mine hit, but they spawn every 25 seconds while mines "recharge" every 40, giving a window where the mines are vulnerable.
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blizz implemented my ideas posted here.
first, look new patch notes here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794980782
notice the new oracle ability called "void syphon." now look at my post on tl a few weeks ago, describing a new ability which should be added called "resource syphon."
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367215
the name of the ability is almost exactly the same (void syphon vs. resource syphon). the ability is almost exactly the same except they target it to a building instead of a mineral patch. i like my idea of targeting a mineral patch better because it harasses economy, but i'm not against their modification.
secondarily, while we are here, check out my thread on the jokership core: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367795
blizz implemented some of my suggestions here too, such as giving the thing a natural attack. however, it isn't as obvious to me in this case that they read my thread (perhaps ideas like giving it a natural attack were somewhat obvious?). however, it *IS* rather obvious in the first case above, don't you think?
note that i was banned after making these posts, btw. reasons cited by the mods included, of all things, "lack of constructive suggestions/ideas." the bans don't matter at all - i just make new accounts, make new posts, get banned again, rinse and repeat - i just wanted to make the point about how bad tl mods suck.
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These mines aren't really OP. There is a huge window of opportunity when they're on cooldown, and you can force a cooldown cost-effectively, now that the mine is stupid. It's still pretty damn strong, but not OP in my opinion.
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Ohh man I love the widow mine change!! They don't seem op as long as you have detection and send units one by one to absorb mine shots but they are still very good. Mech now seems possible once again!
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On October 06 2012 10:51 ihatezerg2 wrote:
i just wanted to make the point about how bad tl mods suck.
great way to not get ban again
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Void Siphon sounds pretty cool on paper. Not really sure what to make of the new Widow Mine.
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On October 06 2012 10:53 Crawdad wrote:
These mines aren't really OP. There is a huge window of opportunity when they're on cooldown, and you can force a cooldown cost-effectively, now that the mine is stupid. It's still pretty damn strong, but not OP in my opinion.
Agreed. That said, I think there's room to make them more interesting to use/watch. As they are now there's essentially 0 micro. Like... I'm pretty sure literally every unit in the game uses more micro.
For the void siphon ability... the 3 min/s would be great if that was actually a way to MINE... but as it stands I can't really see anyone being able to get more than... 20 or 30 minerals before the oracle gets killed or chased away. And it's not like you're going to make 40 oracles and mine your opponent to death.......
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On October 06 2012 10:51 ihatezerg2 wrote:blizz implemented my ideas posted here. first, look new patch notes here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6794980782notice the new oracle ability called "void syphon." now look at my post on tl a few weeks ago, describing a new ability which should be added called "resource syphon." http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=367215the name of the ability is almost exactly the same (void syphon vs. resource syphon). the ability is almost exactly the same except they target it to a building instead of a mineral patch. i like my idea of targeting a mineral patch better because it harasses economy, but i'm not against their modification.
Wrong, there was already an ability on the Corruptor called Siphon in the battle reports, which did the exact same thing as the new Void Siphon. And its name was probably taken from the old Siphon Life on the Infestor. Blizzard reuses its own ideas, not yours. Even the "repurposed Shredder" idea is similar to the mine drone from WoL alpha.
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On October 06 2012 10:55 Khalleb wrote:
great way to not get ban again
You didn't read this part:
the bans don't matter at all - i just make new accounts, make new posts, get banned again, rinse and repeat...
User was banned for this post.
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Wow, something to look forward to for terran players. : D
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Ok, I'm seeing a lot of dislike for Void Siphon and, unless I'm mistaken, not much love for the Oracle in general. Presumably due to it's underwhelming nature with Entomb lacking any and all micro and the new Void Siphon would only be good if you could just sit there with it for a long, long time. Again, an ability that lacks a dynamic element.
I think this is the right direction, but the wrong implementation for the Oracle.
Void Siphon is the right idea, but it shouldn't be a spell. If you take away the energy cost of it, the oracle becomes a potentially game winning, dynamic, harassment unit. People have argued about how Entomb is effectively shut down with some automated defenses, so the shields have been buffed to last longer. This doesn't have to be the case if Void Siphon becomes an actual attack that only damages buildings and steals minerals.
Entomb the line to stop mineral income, harass buildings to take what minerals your opponent has while occupying your opponent's army between simultaneously taking down the shields and stopping the Oracle itself.
It's like a banshee harass directly to the economy. With the current numbers this might be overpowered, but with a little balancing, I think it could be just what Blizz has been aiming at.
Could someone more experienced way in? I'm admittedly far from an experienced player, but I think this could work very well.
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Imo they need to make the widow mine attackable when it is in the process of attacking. It assures too much damage automatically without any concern of the player. Basically, it just allows you to place it and never look at it again because unless it's killed preemptively it does its damage 100% of the time. That needs to be fixed for the amount of damage it does and how many can be made.
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New widow mine is pretty cool, siphon seems horrible. Easy to shut down, not exciting. And what the hell why does that mean phase shield has to go?! What are we gonna do to protect from abducting mamaships and fungal growthing everything. That was an awesome ability with tons of potential, no clue why it was scrapped.
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EPT
