EPTAnd what's scarier is that shields don't regen in combat while T can repair in combat.
Ground Vikings - Page 10
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Phoenix2003
126 Posts
And what's scarier is that shields don't regen in combat while T can repair in combat. | ||
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Lizarb
Denmark307 Posts
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
I guess it always comes down to Ghostmech. | ||
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rshswe
Sweden40 Posts
But I like the whole "Medivacs are existing, so go ground vikings" thingy  we'll just c | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On September 24 2012 21:27 one-one-one wrote: Yeah, I agree with you. Also, with the "That makes them TWICE as powerful" part you are the one who is wrong. Stalkers do 10 damage with a +4 bonus to armored with a cooldown of 1.44s. Vikings do 12 damage with 1s cooldown. Stalker dps vs armored is 14/1.44 = 9.7222... Stalker dps vs armored is 10/1.44 = 6.9444... Viking dps is trivially = 12. 12/9.7222... = 1.2343... 12/6.9444... = 1.7280... So vikings are 23% stronger vs armored and 73% stronger vs non-armored units assuming no upgrades. Your argumentation is immature, narrow minded and lacks nuance because you take things out of their context and twist and bend facts to fit your theories. You also spread false information and refer to it as facts. We get that your standpoint is that no terran units should ever be considered for a buff. But what are you doing in this thread where we try to come up with constructive ways to slightly modify a terran unit so that it could to some extent function a bit like how the warhound was supposed to ? A slightly buffed viking will not be nearly as bad as the Warhound was. I wasn't comparing stalkers to vikings, i was comparing stalker dps to viking dps in response to right now viking threat on the ground is about the same as sentry without energy. when in fact they have higher dps than a stalker. Obviously a stalker is better than a landed viking, especially with blink. What part of You are totally correct that if anything a 'buff' to vikings should be to their taking off and landing speed relates to We get that your standpoint is that no terran units should ever be considered for a buff.? Half my reply was saying that viking landing speed should be buffed to see how that changes the feel of the unit as a harassing option or an emergency deployment unit. That's a buff. Right there, BUFF. However you need to keep in mind that a big part of the mind games going on in PvT is to try and trick the terran into making too many vikings! You fake out massing colossus while instead getting HT / storm. If Vikings are 'good' on the ground then what happens is the terran builds 12 vikings regardless. That way it doesn't matter how many colossus they have, even if it's 1 you pick it off in 1 volley, land and start tearing apart the gateway army. That's not an interesting game where both sides trying to find an edge, that's terran getting to build exactly the same army regardless what their opponent does. | ||
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EliteSK
Korea (South)251 Posts
On September 23 2012 01:47 Fig wrote: This is not a good idea. The viking is already the best air superiority unit in the game. It takes out anything armored with ease, as well as anything that is massive, since those air units are all armored too. And it does this from 9 range, at a low unit cost. As a protoss, I would kill for this unit even if it didn't even have a ground mode. Now you want to buff the ground damage, so that is deals damage pretty well to everything. Vikings already do this, though it may not seem like it, because people hardly ever use them on the ground (since it's air uses are so amazing). It has 12 ground DPS against everything already, which is a bit less than twice that of a stalker (6.9). The viking is certainly not a unit that needs any more help. Instead you should be focusing on other units that are actually underused. Are you saying this on the basis because you lose your colossus to vikings "as a protoss"...? Vikings have no use after taking out colossus in a TvP. If you land 'em, they usually die in the process of landing or they die so fast on the ground. After the ground vikings die, toss can just spam out colo again because the vikings just get scrapped when they transform. Then again, I have some terran bias too. I just feel like the transform function is more gimmicky than anything right now. Some kind of change feels needed; dunno if this change is the best... | ||
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Fairwell
Austria195 Posts
If the viking was a widely unused unit or terrans would struggle a lot with some kind of unit composition/build where vikings seem to be the answer while not breaking anything else in the game, then these threads would actualy make sense. On September 23 2012 02:26 avilo wrote: This would be a good idea. Vikings on the ground suck right now. I think they originally changed viking armor because...of a terrible map pool and trying to balance the game too quickly. Ever since then vikings on the ground have been bad. Tanks were nerfed mostly because of the map pool in the early stages of SC2 but not vikings, they simply should not be cost efficient on the ground compared to normal ground units. I'd like to know what you would say about corruptors if your main race was zerg. :-) | ||
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sona
Canada52 Posts
- they can compliment mech - in the air for AA and on the ground for mobile fighting (still somewhat sluggish) - it won't effect air-to-air that much - BC/corrupter/mutalisk would deal the same damage to it but phoenix will be stronger but that is ok since Vikings have a much better range. in tvt viking vs viking fights will take a longer duration. -if your concerned that ground vikings after this upgrade will plow through everything, just TUNE the ground attack range As of right now, ground vikings have been nothing but a gimmik ability like the thor. In conclusion blizzard, please experiment will different ideas! P.S. Someone should try this out in unit tester - making viking light and test it against every other unit. | ||
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EliteSK
Korea (South)251 Posts
On September 25 2012 08:11 sona wrote: Making viking a LIGHT-type unit is a viable solution: - they can compliment mech - in the air for AA and on the ground for mobile fighting (still somewhat sluggish) - it won't effect air-to-air that much - BC/corrupter/mutalisk would deal the same damage to it but phoenix will be stronger but that is ok since Vikings have a much better range. in tvt viking vs viking fights will take a longer duration. -if your concerned that ground vikings after this upgrade will plow through everything, just TUNE the ground attack range As of right now, ground vikings have been nothing but a gimmik ability like the thor. In conclusion blizzard, please experiment will different ideas! P.S. Someone should try this out in unit tester - making viking light and test it against every other unit. you realize phoenixes can shoot while moving right so kiting them is a real pain/not possible...and also have a range upgrade to get 7 range? | ||
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sona
Canada52 Posts
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Zergrusher
United States562 Posts
On September 25 2012 08:25 EliteSK wrote: you realize phoenixes can shoot while moving right so kiting them is a real pain/not possible...and also have a range upgrade to get 7 range? its 6 range after upgrade not 7 range | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On September 25 2012 08:11 sona wrote: Making viking a LIGHT-type unit is a viable solution: - they can compliment mech - in the air for AA and on the ground for mobile fighting (still somewhat sluggish) - it won't effect air-to-air that much - BC/corrupter/mutalisk would deal the same damage to it but phoenix will be stronger but that is ok since Vikings have a much better range. in tvt viking vs viking fights will take a longer duration. -if your concerned that ground vikings after this upgrade will plow through everything, just TUNE the ground attack range But if Vikings were a light unit, SkyToss would actually be good, and we can't have that. | ||
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ThePianoDentist
United Kingdom698 Posts
also making vikings ground mech upgrades would nerf the hell out of skyterran | ||
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Zato-1
Chile4253 Posts
On September 25 2012 01:04 Thrasymachus725 wrote: Rofl, yes please do that... Phoenix don't destroy them enough as is. Also, banelings should blast through them AND battlehellions on the ground. Not to mention hellions need to burn through them like butter. Why do you want the viking to be light? So they can eat Immortal shots? You have the hellbat for that... Are you implying that Phoenix beat Vikings? Because they don't. They can serve as meatshields for your Colossi vs. a Terran that doesn't target fire properly, but that's about all the use you're gonna get from Phoenix in actual engagements... compared to Vikings which are a staple of TvP and ZvT. I can understand Terrans wanting to make mech compositions work in TvP again after the Warhound got nuked, but the Viking's Assault Mode isn't a good place to try to fit in more power because the unit is already so strong. Just let the Viking be, it's in a good place right now; compare that to the Void Ray, which instead of being a specialist unit like the Viking, tries to do everything at once but isn't good at anything. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Oh but if I had to think of a buff if this wasn't enough, it'd be to give them 1 armor. It really doesn't make sense they have 0 when they are such beefy-looking units, anyway. | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On September 25 2012 10:42 Crawdad wrote: But if Vikings were a light unit, SkyToss would actually be good, and we can't have that. This would destroy TvT since thors do bonus damage to light. On a side note, what makes phoenix terrible vs vikings is not a fight over space with pure viking vs pure phoenix. It's that with any sort of support the vikings wreck phoenix due tot he fact that the phoenix need to come within range of marines / turrets / thors to attack the vikings while the same is not true of the vikings. In HOTS I would increase the gas cost of vikings to 100 (same as muta and phoenix) supply to 3 and decrease the landing time to pretty much instant and increase the assault mode HP to 160. maybe give 1ar as well. I feel damage and walking speed are fine. That should be enough to encourage terran to experiment with assault mode more, make them more durable on the ground and discourage people from overmaking them blindly as a 'catchall counter' to everything. I don't know how big an issue the supply cost increase would affect the corruptor / viking wars. If need be I'd be happy to see corruptors increased to 3. BL would stay 4 supply. This might also encourage BCs since currently you can get 3 vikings per BC, where 2 is a much better ratio. | ||
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HypertonicHydroponic
437 Posts
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
On September 25 2012 14:01 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: This is just me thinking out loud based on some of the other comments in this thread, but what if, instead of tweaking the base unit they simply allow the viking to be upgraded by BOTH ground mech and air upgrades? And I don't mean, ground attack upgraded by ground and air attack by air -- I mean, with a 3/3 mech upgrade and a 3/3 air upgrade you would have a 6/6 viking. It seems like it could be decent on the ground, but might be OP in the air. Although with the tempest and hydra buff, maybe it wouldn't be too bad. Thoughts? 6 ar would be stupidly imba. | ||
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Dephy
Lithuania163 Posts
would be kinda epic having this viking though. Maybe zergs wouldnt camp all day long with there imposible to kill army, since 6/6 viking might come and woop your ass. It would also benefit good terran players who have good macro ability and all. And since every race is differnt it could work, right now zergs/toss players on this thread keeps talking about there units, compared to viking and how viking cant be atleast average on ground because its good in air. Thor is good vs air and good vs heavy ground targets, pheonix is good vs air and good at harrasing. Why cant viking have couple or roles is beyond me, because viking is cool unit, that have interesting mechanic, why simple having more a move bio army is more fun for ppl than having fun unique unit? If you keep saying he must suck on ground still, why not remove ground mode altogether and make them cheaper? Since its another case of 250mm strike cannon atm (this ability actually nerf's the unit instead of buffing it). | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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