EPTWhy Lockdown can fix TvT & TvP - Page 4
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stard1n
50 Posts
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
On September 16 2012 15:40 -NegativeZero- wrote: I don't think lockdown is a good idea because it is literally the most micro removing spell possible, which is what everyone complains about anyway. At least fungaled units can attack, but a locked-down unit just sits there, does nothing, and still takes damage. but the difference here is, lockdown only works on mechanical units, and is single target. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
Some of your points are valid about TvP, but lockdown in SC2 would be too easy to use. It would be very hard to balance properly as it would either be too good or just bad. | ||
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Mataza
Germany5364 Posts
It´s not explained what lockdown is in the op. From the way it was worded I gather lockdown is supposed to be an area skill that stops units from using abilities/attacking. In BW lockdown was a single target end-of-the-tech-tree spell that stunned a mechanical unit for roughly 2 minutes(I remember Ghosts could nibble a tank to death before it ended. 5 damage against 150 HP, slow fire rate, guaranteed kill). But yes, with battlehellions being a good way to hold against zealots, I think Mech lacks a defensive answer to blink stalker the most. (Immortals can be emp'd, just 2 ghosts are probably enough for the entire game.) Maybe a spell that disables no-energy abilities in an area? Would help against charge, blink, siege/unsiege, viking transformation, probably not zergstuff(would be only burrow anyway) I think a factory caster wouldn´t be entirely wrong anyway. | ||
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Ghostdav
Canada129 Posts
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HeeroFX
United States2704 Posts
TvP is retarded. Longer game goes the weaker terran get. Any greed a terran does can be punished with a all in because tanks are shit. Warhoud did help a lot. TvZ I feel like its getting back to being more even. The warhound helps out mech here but the warhound wasn't designed for the TvZ matchup. | ||
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
On September 16 2012 07:00 LgNKami wrote: I agree with avilo. Personally I believe the siege tank needs a buff in damage to make it less forgiving as its supposed to be like that. I agree with this, the seige tank should be feared in all matchups. As is now, a zerg just throws a couple beach balls first before he 1a's his lings and a toss just flat-out laughs when he sees tanks. Makes me sad  | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On September 17 2012 16:17 stard1n wrote: How bout mines do lock down charges instead of damage? O.o That's actually not a bad idea to test at all. | ||
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p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
On September 17 2012 15:35 Acritter wrote: Agreed, and why I felt it should be associated with a fragile unit role like the Ghost or the Raven. Some good points by the way.Strike Cannon is an inherently broken ability, because it allows a unit that has been balanced for combat to instantly kill a unit of its choice. This means that it can defeat its "counter" in straight combat. The choice is essentially between making Strike Cannon viable, at which point it's nearly impossible for Protoss to deal with anything approaching large Thor counts, or making it nonviable, which we have now. Lockdown in BW was balanced (hell, even a little underpowered) because it was stuck on a terrible combat unit. Irradiate and EMP were similarly balanced because they were stuck on non-combat units. You simply can't put powerful spells like this onto serious combat units, or those combat units then become ridiculously hard to stop. If you want another example, look at the SC2 Ghost. It's a legit combat unit, and has had two of its three spells nerfed horribly because if it had those spells along with its autoattack, it would be a unit you mass without ever thinking about it. So no, the Thor is NOT the answer to this. | ||
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osiris17
United States165 Posts
Can someone tell me why blizzard is worried about overloading Terran mech with micro? Ok so you have the siege tank... target fire your tanks. The hellion, in battle this doesn't require a ton of micro just positioning. The thor - positioning and then about zero micro. And the widow mine... perhaps some preliminary micro. And Terran needs warhounds with zero micro in order to go mech, why? How do widow mines fare against blink stalker antics? | ||
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xPrimuSx
92 Posts
On September 17 2012 05:44 p1cKLes wrote: True and I considered this, but I think most people can agree that the 250MM cannons and lockdown on the Thor are completely useless. Maybe it could be tweaked, and I did suggest that in my thread, but I personally think it would be better suited on the Raven and remove the 250MM cannons on the Thor all together. It's a good point, and it did cross my mind. Yeah, I read your OP and I saw that you acknowledged it, but since given Blizzard's past behavior I always feel its better to focus any argument around tweaking an existing ability/unit over making a wholesale change. On September 17 2012 15:05 stard1n wrote: How about changing the widow mine from dealing damage to releasing an electrical charge that locks down a small area for a few seconds? That could allow tanks to unsiege and siege back up in TvP, and would be interesting to watch and micro intensive, as ghosts or vikings would need to snipe observers, while the protoss tries to snipe the mines. Also it would not ruin TvZ i think, and would add interesting features to TvT. Your thoughts? This. I really like this idea. Converting Widow Mines to work as Lockdown Mines would be very cool, but having that be their only ability would probably be a bad idea. Much like the Hellion vs Battle Hellion it would be better if you could swap between damage and disable. | ||
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Acritter
Syria7637 Posts
On September 17 2012 16:12 Falling wrote: The problem with lockdown... is smart casting. I wouldn't mind a niche, mechanically difficult spell like lockdown sans smart-casting. But with smart casting, I feel were just going to get another ff or fg that get's spammed and prevents people from microing. Treat it the same way that the BW team treated strong anti-micro abilities, and stick it on a relatively tough to obtain caster with little to no combat ability. Examples: Arbiter, Dark Archon, Queen (Ensnare), Ghost (oh hey). Lots of people have pointed out the Raven, and I think it would be a brilliant choice. Low enough on the food count that it wouldn't be oppressive to the army, expensive enough that you can't expect people to simply mass them until the late-lategame (at which point it hardly matters, because that's supposed to be the crazyawesome wickedstrange part of the game). Lockdown would probably be balanced at an EXTREMELY aggressive 75 energy, allowing for a different direction in Terran midgame play. In any case, it would revitalize an underused unit and allow Terrans to address Colossi and Mech play in a very different way. I think it would be highly interesting to watch. | ||
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