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On September 15 2012 05:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:
More Widow Mine buffs please.
Aw yiss.
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I cant get my head around it that they call the BC damage buff a Bugg now and that the "Fixed" it now back to 8 damage.....?
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On September 15 2012 05:16 M7Jagger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:08 trbot wrote:On September 15 2012 05:06 wcr.4fun wrote:
Mech is back where it used to be though. The mine and battle hellions alone aren't enough. The siege tank needs to be stronger! Given that battle hellions completely melt chargelots, I'm not sure this statement is justified, yet... What about the immortal? It rapes everything that comes out the factory.
Battle hellion is a light unit. That means immortals do 20 damage instead of 50 to a battle hellion. Immortals are identical in their DPS to a stalker when attacking light units. You're not saying stalkers rape mech, are you?
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Well well, the Terran nerf hammer hits us again... Why dont they just remove stim?!
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Oracles are acting more and more like Arbiters now, with the phase shield acting something similar to Defensive matrix but AOE and not blocking flat damage.
I like, I like. I kinda wished the oracle had recall on it, instead of the Mothership core to allow for aggressive recalls rather than only defensive ones.
Meh, still really happy with these changes.
I think blizzard saw that mech should be more about mines, map control and tank positioning and that the warhound never really fit the idea, but also giving hellions extra durability later on in the game with battle mode being an upgrade instead of coming with it. I like :D
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
On September 15 2012 05:13 spbelky wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:02 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:57 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 04:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:38 Flonomenalz wrote:
If they would just buff tanks... we could have an amazing game. Tanks don't need any buffs lol. Also, thank god the Warhound is gone. Yes yes thank god the warhound is gone. But there is still a gaping hole in Mech. Does the Siege Tank need a buff? IDK, but if it's not a buff, anti-siegetank units need a nerf, there are too many of them, and they are too good at nullifying tanks. Imo, mech IS viable already but it revolves a lot around being constantly active with banshees/hellions and dumping lots of extra minerals into extra orbitals and strategically placed planetaries. In sc2 mech is simple more complex, it's not nearly as straight forward as it was in BW, which is cool because mechanically (no pun intended) the game is easier. If they were to buff tanks then mech would be way over powered, just imo anyways. We're just now starting to see mech vs zerg, and it has only surfaced because players have figured out that banshees are actually a core unit in the style. I think with more time and experimentation it will be figured out vs toss as well (already it's used often in t v t). Anyways, can't say it enough, thank god the warhound is gone. Every WoL TvZ or TvP mech game I've seen where the meching player wins, is never because mech is a viable "good" strategy. They win because their opponent took early damage from hellions or banshees (in which case bio could have killed then just as well) Or they win because their opponent reacted very very poorly (unfamiliar with mech or didn't scout until 12minutes). The games where the Terran goes banshee heavy early on are primarily successful because of the current metagame (also I'm assuming you're talking about MVP's IEM games?) I just don't see mech working except for one of the reasons stated above, or if the Terran player is just simply a league above his opponent.
We've seen plenty of TvZ games where the hellion banshee gets rebuffed (obviously it did something, but nothing exceptional) but by the time the zerg hits back the terran has 6 gas double upgrades going with a decent tank line, and the terran wins from there.
TvP I'd probably agree with you, but with these changes maybe we'll see something different, if not Blizz will definitely do something, they've stated their intent to make it viable, there's no reason for them to just give up on the idea.
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CAAAAAARRRIIIIIEEEEEERRRRR HAAAAAASSS AAAARRRRRIIIIVVEEEEDD!!
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Carrier has returned? I'm loving it!
And I also love the new Oracle and Tempest changes. I still hope that the Swarm Hosts aren't that strong as before. But maybe they are okay with the new range.
Best thing about the Patch: No Warhounds anymore. Thanks a LOT.
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On September 15 2012 05:16 iHirO wrote:
Is there any point keeping the Void Ray now that the Tempest's role overlaps with it?
No no. Overlapping units get taken out only if they're Terran xD
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Its funny, at first blizzard and gamers stated that carrier was usless or dose not fill any role in game, but eventualy players found that in a late late PvZ game carries are a MUST. In hots blizzard added tempest as a replacement of a carrier but its slow with low rate of fire low damage and no splash witch is pathetic. No wonder that carrier IS BACK. Its a great news even though Im zerg :p
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On September 15 2012 05:14 Sroobz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:13 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 05:02 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:57 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 04:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:38 Flonomenalz wrote:
If they would just buff tanks... we could have an amazing game. Tanks don't need any buffs lol. Also, thank god the Warhound is gone. Yes yes thank god the warhound is gone. But there is still a gaping hole in Mech. Does the Siege Tank need a buff? IDK, but if it's not a buff, anti-siegetank units need a nerf, there are too many of them, and they are too good at nullifying tanks. Imo, mech IS viable already but it revolves a lot around being constantly active with banshees/hellions and dumping lots of extra minerals into extra orbitals and strategically placed planetaries. In sc2 mech is simple more complex, it's not nearly as straight forward as it was in BW, which is cool because mechanically (no pun intended) the game is easier. If they were to buff tanks then mech would be way over powered, just imo anyways. We're just now starting to see mech vs zerg, and it has only surfaced because players have figured out that banshees are actually a core unit in the style. I think with more time and experimentation it will be figured out vs toss as well (already it's used often in t v t). Anyways, can't say it enough, thank god the warhound is gone. Every WoL TvZ or TvP mech game I've seen where the meching player wins, is never because mech is a viable "good" strategy. They win because their opponent took early damage from hellions or banshees (in which case bio could have killed then just as well) Or they win because their opponent reacted very very poorly (unfamiliar with mech or didn't scout until 12minutes). The games where the Terran goes banshee heavy early on are primarily successful because of the current metagame (also I'm assuming you're talking about MVP's IEM games?) I just don't see mech working except for one of the reasons stated above, or if the Terran player is just simply a league above his opponent. This isn't true about TvZ. But it's true in Tvp.
This is true in TvZ.
The only Mech victories in TvZ where when the zerg is unprepared.
Give me any Code S zerg who practices and is comfortable vs. Mech against any Code S meching Terran, and have them face off. Can the Mecher win? Yes, but it's very unlikely. maybe 30/70. For mech to be a viablo strategy, it must have a decent success rate against opponents who KNOW EXACTLY what you're doing (this is true for any strategy, like bio or marine/tank).
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what was blizzards reason to nerf the bc/raven back to WoL stats, they got like no end game use in WoL and with the buffs they started to help terran late game a lot in hots, then they go right back to square one.
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On September 15 2012 03:47 partysnatcher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 03:46 FuzzyJAM wrote:
Overall looks to be good, but can Terran get a good replacement for the Warhound please? It was a horrible design from the beginning, but at least it was something. . .can I get some new toys to play with, please? 1) Terran has twice as many toys as Zerg 2) The removal is temporary, and Blizzard are asking for community suggestions of how it should look when they bring it back.
1) False
Go count the units before you make posts like that.
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I'm not surprisesd: I was pretty sure that Blizzard was working hard to make this game better. Nice.
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On September 15 2012 05:16 The KY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:15 SarcasmMonster wrote:
More Widow Mine buffs please. Aw yiss.
Seeing how successful the Carrier+Warhound threads are, maybe it's time to start a 1-supply Widow Mine thread.
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On September 15 2012 05:16 M7Jagger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:08 trbot wrote:On September 15 2012 05:06 wcr.4fun wrote:
Mech is back where it used to be though. The mine and battle hellions alone aren't enough. The siege tank needs to be stronger! Given that battle hellions completely melt chargelots, I'm not sure this statement is justified, yet... What about the immortal? It rapes everything that comes out the factory.
It doesn't rape Thors with 250mm Cannons, nor Widow Mines nor Hellions cost per cost(even though it is hard to talk about cost per cost when Hellions don't even cost gas...).
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On September 15 2012 05:19 ArchAngelSC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:16 iHirO wrote:
Is there any point keeping the Void Ray now that the Tempest's role overlaps with it? No no. Overlapping units get taken out only if they're Terran xD
They don't overlap as much as you think. When you play skytoss PvZ, voids deal with corruptors. This is something tempest doesn't do at all. In fact, if you remove voids, you have no answer to corruptors without switching to ground units. On the other hand, if you remove the tempest, you don't have a seige range unit capable of holding back a broodlord push.
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On September 15 2012 05:18 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:13 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 05:02 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:57 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 04:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:38 Flonomenalz wrote:
If they would just buff tanks... we could have an amazing game. Tanks don't need any buffs lol. Also, thank god the Warhound is gone. Yes yes thank god the warhound is gone. But there is still a gaping hole in Mech. Does the Siege Tank need a buff? IDK, but if it's not a buff, anti-siegetank units need a nerf, there are too many of them, and they are too good at nullifying tanks. Imo, mech IS viable already but it revolves a lot around being constantly active with banshees/hellions and dumping lots of extra minerals into extra orbitals and strategically placed planetaries. In sc2 mech is simple more complex, it's not nearly as straight forward as it was in BW, which is cool because mechanically (no pun intended) the game is easier. If they were to buff tanks then mech would be way over powered, just imo anyways. We're just now starting to see mech vs zerg, and it has only surfaced because players have figured out that banshees are actually a core unit in the style. I think with more time and experimentation it will be figured out vs toss as well (already it's used often in t v t). Anyways, can't say it enough, thank god the warhound is gone. Every WoL TvZ or TvP mech game I've seen where the meching player wins, is never because mech is a viable "good" strategy. They win because their opponent took early damage from hellions or banshees (in which case bio could have killed then just as well) Or they win because their opponent reacted very very poorly (unfamiliar with mech or didn't scout until 12minutes). The games where the Terran goes banshee heavy early on are primarily successful because of the current metagame (also I'm assuming you're talking about MVP's IEM games?) I just don't see mech working except for one of the reasons stated above, or if the Terran player is just simply a league above his opponent. We've seen plenty of TvZ games where the hellion banshee gets rebuffed (obviously it did something, but nothing exceptional) but by the time the zerg hits back the terran has 6 gas double upgrades going with a decent tank line, and the terran wins from there. TvP I'd probably agree with you, but with these changes maybe we'll see something different, if not Blizz will definitely do something, they've stated their intent to make it viable, there's no reason for them to just give up on the idea.
I'd love to see this miracle game you're speaking of. I just cant fathom that this could happen if the zerg were experienced with mech timings... the style your suggesting has MASSIVE early game holes that can be abused (and it sounds like the zerg was clueless as to how to abuse them).
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Immortal
Immortal Hardened Shield will now reduce the warhound’s Haywire Missile damage.
Warhound
This unit has been removed from the game.
Huh? Isn't this kind of...nonsensical?
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On September 15 2012 05:13 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 05:12 Plansix wrote:On September 15 2012 05:03 Sroobz wrote:On September 15 2012 05:02 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:57 spbelky wrote:On September 15 2012 04:49 AnomalySC2 wrote:On September 15 2012 04:38 Flonomenalz wrote:
If they would just buff tanks... we could have an amazing game. Tanks don't need any buffs lol. Also, thank god the Warhound is gone. Yes yes thank god the warhound is gone. But there is still a gaping hole in Mech. Does the Siege Tank need a buff? IDK, but if it's not a buff, anti-siegetank units need a nerf, there are too many of them, and they are too good at nullifying tanks. Imo, mech IS viable already but it revolves a lot around being constantly active with banshees/hellions and dumping lots of extra minerals into extra orbitals and strategically placed planetaries. In sc2 mech is simple more complex, it's not nearly as straight forward as it was in BW, which is cool because mechanically (no pun intended) the game is easier. If they were to buff tanks then mech would be way over powered, just imo anyways. We're just now starting to see mech vs zerg, and it has only surfaced because players have figured out that banshees are actually a core unit in the style. I think with more time and experimentation it will be figured out vs toss as well (already it's used often in t v t). Anyways, can't say it enough, thank god the warhound is gone. We've seen the top Terrans in the world say that they would NEVER go mech in TvP because it's horrible at the moment. Exactly, now we can Do they have battle hellions, because those sound pretty good? Also untested since the warhound was the cure to cancer. No, it was the cancer to mech. Now mech is free to be tested.
Exactly, get pumped. We need more mech, mines and glory. Watch zealots crash against the wall of flame thrower robots.
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EPT
