• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:59
CET 18:59
KST 02:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1108 users

Protoss Harass and Why It Still Sucks - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Maghetti
Profile Joined May 2008
United States2429 Posts
September 14 2012 03:39 GMT
#41
I would say the oracle is an impossible unit to keep around and balance. For one, because of the reasons listed in the op, units cannot just do passive damage as harass. If you give protoss a unit that does passive damage that means it is useless in defense and the enemy can just go fucking kill you. Also, the units abilities, especially entomb is a skill less move. The game needs units and abilities that gains power from better control, not something that can be done equally well by any level of player.
SWPIGWANG
Profile Joined June 2008
Canada482 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-14 04:53:53
September 14 2012 04:46 GMT
#42
An effective straight up combat unit at stargate is very difficult to balance and even harder to make interesting.

Every air combat unit composition resulted in deathballs. Look at SCBW, Muta stacks ruined ZvZ, BC stacks resulted in the lamest semi-stalemates, and even things like Carriers or Sair-Reaver work as a single near-invulnerable stack. Carriers was okay because it was late game and fights very spread out terran bases, while Sair-Reaver worked due to "scourge/burrow counter" as opposed to another air stack deathball. If you remember your SCBW patches, it is interesting that wraith and SCOUTS had their air to ground damage nerfed to prevent them from deathballing up, and mutalisks resulted in TWO counter unit of corsair and valks to prevent them from even more out of control.

In the early history of SC2, things like triple charge void insta win or speed void late game was on the table before getting nerfed out of existence. Even today, the game it'd only take a small shift to make turtle into void-storm-carrier PvZ becoming near standard.

Frankly, I'd rather they play it conservative and make Air transition a late game, win after 25minutes of bitter fighting, thing, then to break it and create another mid game deathball.

Oracle could be made into a support caster instead of harasser if one wants stargate tech to be semi-standard. Something like a flying sentry/medivacs/science vessel/raven/viper that buffs the main army without combat power is a great way to make stargate persistently useful.

As for harass, the protoss main army can simply blink/cliffwalk/warpin onto your weak spot and rampforcefield you to death if your base defense is bad. It is not that protoss lack harass options, but opponents of protoss can not afford to be cheap on defenses, unlike say, TvZ.
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
September 14 2012 06:34 GMT
#43
On September 14 2012 11:25 xPrimuSx wrote:
OK, this could be a pretty crazy idea, but how about offensive cloaking for the Oracle? The Oracle temporarily cloaks enemy units and structures, cloaked objects cannot be targeted, given orders, or attack without detection to allow them to be selected, with any affected objects losing their detection abilities for the duration of the spell. You either wait out the ability or you bring over a detector/use a scan. Turrets wouldn't work since any competent player would make sure they cloak those too.


lol this is a great idea. cloak everything!! (seriously)

Like phase shift but it affects literally everything, although it can be undone by detectors. But if you hit the turrets / cannons / spores / OC / obs themselves, they can't see with those cause they're gone, and can't cast a scan from there. This would be useful in battle as well of course. Imagine cloaking someone's army and they can't even select their units. (Obviously the duration would have to be quite short.)

Ha I love this idea.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#35
RotterdaM811
TKL 373
IndyStarCraft 150
SteadfastSC114
BRAT_OK 103
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 811
TKL 373
mouzHeroMarine 361
IndyStarCraft 150
SteadfastSC 114
Liquid`VortiX 111
BRAT_OK 103
MaxPax 69
DivinesiaTV 22
trigger 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 750
Larva 559
Light 292
firebathero 135
Dewaltoss 113
910 27
Dota 2
syndereN1542
XcaliburYe655
Counter-Strike
adren_tv145
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor221
Other Games
Grubby6917
FrodaN1697
B2W.Neo757
ceh9451
Beastyqt408
Lowko275
ToD155
QueenE106
Mew2King101
Trikslyr47
RushiSC12
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 37
• Hinosc 9
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 10
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV1547
League of Legends
• Nemesis3630
• TFBlade965
Other Games
• Shiphtur243
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Invitational
1d 18h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.