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On September 08 2012 06:09 purakushi wrote:A nice start to testing balances, I guess, but I wish haywire missiles was not autocastable.  They should leave creep tumours consumable, that's pretty funny. Blinding cloud will barely cover anything now. I think this will be buffed to 2. o.o Are they seriously leaving the haywire missiles doing full damage to immortal shields?
You can abuse the fact that autocast is on. Blink one Stalker in range and let it take the whole volley of missiles. It will be overkill. Then, attack in the cooldown. If you just a-move against it, it won't overkill anything at the same time that Immortals wil lose almost all their shields and some stalkers will die before the real battle even begin. If you memorize the cooldown time well, you can even abuse it again blinking a stalker in the middle of warhounds to absord a whole volley again (Haywire attacks the nearest target).
But that's really hard to do it.
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On September 08 2012 06:27 purakushi wrote:
I don't understand why they would decrease preordain from 2 minute to 1 minute. That is the only thing that gives tempests a chance to attack from long range (observers are easy to snipe, since they have to stay there). I guess they really do not want the tempest to work. lol
Pre-ordain gave me for a long period of time huge amounts of intel of which units were spawning from the hive for example which is incredible useful to react what the Zerg is producing. I can really see why they nerfed it. I also successful have won games by putting preordain on a factory along other production facilities for the terran so I knew for 2 full minutes what they were building was really handy. I think the nerf is reasonable as I actually thought that spell is, at the moment very underutilized but very powerful.
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Oracle
- Revelation has changed from E to R.
- Entomb has changed from R to E.
lol
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I don't think that the warhounds are nerfed enough. The main problems are their ridiculous fast moving speed, the cost of 2 supply and the abit to high hitpoints. At least two of these points must be changed.
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On September 08 2012 06:38 purakushi wrote:
Oracle
- Revelation has changed from E to R.
- Entomb has changed from R to E.
lol
Yeah, I liked that too.
It happens when you make one ability first, give it a key you think is appropriate, then add more abilities.
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The cloud thingy affecting everything seems a bit ridiculous. I guess marine/tank will die completely and it's going to be either pure bio or tankless mech.
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On September 08 2012 06:40 Aenur wrote:
I don't think that the warhounds are nerfed enough. The main problems are their ridiculous fast moving speed, the cost of 2 supply and the abit to high hitpoints. At least two of these points must be changed.
This. It's pretty much the roaches of WoL beta. Except now terran has them. Haywire missiles doing full damage to immortals is incredibly stupid. I understand you needed something to stop zealots and immortals from raping tank lines. But now what does protoss have? Zealots are hard countered. Anything mechnical is hardcountered. We are now forced into air units. There is no ground composition that will beat warhound/battle hellion in it's current state.
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On September 08 2012 06:42 Zane wrote:
The cloud thingy affecting everything seems a bit ridiculous. I guess marine/tank will die completely and it's going to be either pure bio or tankless mech.
1.5 radius is extremely small. It'll take 5 or 6 clouds to cover even a portion of what you're trying to hit.
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On September 08 2012 06:36 Herect wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:09 purakushi wrote:A nice start to testing balances, I guess, but I wish haywire missiles was not autocastable. They should leave creep tumours consumable, that's pretty funny. Blinding cloud will barely cover anything now. I think this will be buffed to 2. o.o Are they seriously leaving the haywire missiles doing full damage to immortal shields? You can abuse the fact that autocast is on. Blink one Stalker in range and let it take the whole volley of missiles. It will be overkill. Then, attack in the cooldown. If you just a-move against it, it won't overkill anything at the same time that Immortals wil lose almost all their shields and some stalkers will die before the real battle even begin. If you memorize the cooldown time well, you can even abuse it again blinking a stalker in the middle of warhounds to absord a whole volley again (Haywire attacks the nearest target). But that's really hard to do it.
Haha, I like that idea, actually. However, the main problem I have with haywire is that you can just run around and kite (with haywire only) lesser ranged mech units and basically take no damage, because haywire is 10 range. Nearly all of the early game TvPs I have seen of HotS, T can just send their first warhound to attack and inevitably do way too much damage for one unit (and the P knows its coming). It would be fixed with a nerf to range or at least made a tad more difficult to do by making it not autocasted. However, the first solution is not what Blizzard is looking for, since warhounds were designed to break siege tank lines, so it basically is required to keep the longer haywire range.
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We need to delay the update till 4:30 PM PDT. Will post with any additional changes. - Blizzard
now they need science vessel against viper
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On September 08 2012 06:15 Plexa wrote:Bosonic core is oracle energy Sigh
Don't sigh. Widow mine costs 2 supply so there will be no mine field like BW anyway. 2 supply you get 6 spider mines.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On September 08 2012 06:47 larse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:15 Plexa wrote:Bosonic core is oracle energy - Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage. Sigh Don't sigh. Widow mine costs 2 supply so there will be no mine field like BW anyway. 2 supply you get 6 spider mines.
That's a bad thing. There should be minefields otherwise what's the point?
Apart from that, pretty good changes for the first patch.
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On September 08 2012 06:48 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:47 larse wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Plexa wrote:Bosonic core is oracle energy - Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage. Sigh Don't sigh. Widow mine costs 2 supply so there will be no mine field like BW anyway. 2 supply you get 6 spider mines. That's a bad thing. Their should be minefields otherwise what's the point? Apart from that, pretty good changes for the first patch.
To intercept warp prisms and deter roach drops?
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On September 08 2012 06:35 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:34 aZealot wrote:
Wow, more steps down towards the abyss of yet more hard counters. :-/ what are you basing this on?
The very mild changes to the Warhound. Zealot/Immortal are both hard countered. As is everything mechanical.
(You want to do X, make Y, and so on - not you want to do X, you do Y. At least that's how I see it.)
To be fair to Blizzard though, it is only the first of numerous beta patches. But...
I haven't really seen any Zerg streams, been watching mainly TT1 and Thorzain, so have no real comment on Zerg.
From what I have seen, Zerg changes look cool though and fun to play.
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United Kingdom12024 Posts
On September 08 2012 06:49 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:48 Qikz wrote:On September 08 2012 06:47 larse wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Plexa wrote:Bosonic core is oracle energy - Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage. Sigh Don't sigh. Widow mine costs 2 supply so there will be no mine field like BW anyway. 2 supply you get 6 spider mines. That's a bad thing. Their should be minefields otherwise what's the point? Apart from that, pretty good changes for the first patch. To intercept warp prisms and deter roach drops?
The whole point of mines is to slow the enemy down so you can reposition your tanks.
They also help against drops but right now they're completely useless for their inteded purposes.
You needed minefields in your own base to defend drops/recall in SC1, now since the mines are even weaker you need morre of them.
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On September 08 2012 06:40 Aenur wrote:
I don't think that the warhounds are nerfed enough. The main problems are their ridiculous fast moving speed, the cost of 2 supply and the abit to high hitpoints. At least two of these points must be changed.
I would not mind leaving the other problems with the warhound you mentioned, but I think Blizzard would be smart to make it cost 3 supply. This will encourage less massing of these units, leading to more variety in unit composition.
I'm all for making haywire missiles not autocastable, though.
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On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP.
If by more viable you mean completely irrelevant...
Why would you ever build tanks when the Warhound is so good?
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I wonder if they will fix the SCV's build icon location on the command card grid. Right now, it's one grid square below where it was in WoL, while Drones and Probes have their command card locations unchanged.
This is really annoying as a player who uses grid hotkeys. I'm used to spamming the 'q' key to build workers for all races. While this is still the case for Protoss and Zerg in the HotS beta, the SCV hotkey is now 'a' which throws me off quite a bit.
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On September 08 2012 06:52 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:49 pmp10 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:48 Qikz wrote:On September 08 2012 06:47 larse wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Plexa wrote:Bosonic core is oracle energy - Widow mines will no longer damage each other with their splash damage. Sigh Don't sigh. Widow mine costs 2 supply so there will be no mine field like BW anyway. 2 supply you get 6 spider mines. That's a bad thing. Their should be minefields otherwise what's the point? Apart from that, pretty good changes for the first patch. To intercept warp prisms and deter roach drops? The whole point of mines is to slow the enemy down so you can reposition your tanks. They also help against drops but right now they're completely useless for their inteded purposes. You needed minefields in your own base to defend drops/recall in SC1, now since the mines are even weaker you need morre of them.
Their purpose was always to manage back-stabs base-trades and flanks.
Ironically they will do it best by countering air units.
On September 08 2012 06:53 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP. If by more viable you mean completely irrelevant... Why would you ever build tanks when the Warhound is so good?
But the other side of that question is why would you build tanks if warhound is not good enough?
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Can't wait to get my hands on the beta!
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EPT
