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On September 09 2012 05:45 Chaosvuistje wrote:
I like the tinkering with blinding cloud, but I feel that it lacks excitement because of the long range. I think it would bring more excitement if the range was reduced so the viper has to be more exposed, I mean 9 range is a lot for a spell that basically makes tanks useless if they are sieged up.
That way you can have the spell be either used in retreat or in have the viper be more at risk for trying to use it offensively. To have it work more positionally rather than the feel that it can just be cast from everywhere like the abduct spell.
I agree with the warhound and the swarm host change though. While I love the swarm host's concept the locusts were just a little bit too beefy for a free unit. Warhound should really just be removed, see absolutely no room for excitement in that unit.
Well the Thor's air attack has a range of 10 so i guess if they mix some Thors into their composition then they cannot cast without being hit. It would be good if they could make it so that battles come down to micro between vipers and ghosts, but there should be an even playing field for it, so that its purely reaction time and focus fire that determines the outcome, as opposed to the outcome being determined purely by whether or not one side fucks up somehow.
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On September 08 2012 06:29 purakushi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP. Actually, Blizzard's main goal of the warhound is to break the TvT siege tank scan wars. Of course, having a viable mech option versus Protoss is necessary to balance.
I thought that's what we had Battlecruisers and Banshee's for, the TvT siege lines. O_o
Go to the Sky, Terrans. Please. T_T
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On September 09 2012 12:58 734pot wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 05:45 Chaosvuistje wrote:
I like the tinkering with blinding cloud, but I feel that it lacks excitement because of the long range. I think it would bring more excitement if the range was reduced so the viper has to be more exposed, I mean 9 range is a lot for a spell that basically makes tanks useless if they are sieged up.
That way you can have the spell be either used in retreat or in have the viper be more at risk for trying to use it offensively. To have it work more positionally rather than the feel that it can just be cast from everywhere like the abduct spell.
I agree with the warhound and the swarm host change though. While I love the swarm host's concept the locusts were just a little bit too beefy for a free unit. Warhound should really just be removed, see absolutely no room for excitement in that unit.
Well the Thor's air attack has a range of 10 so i guess if they mix some Thors into their composition then they cannot cast without being hit. It would be good if they could make it so that battles come down to micro between vipers and ghosts, but there should be an even playing field for it, so that its purely reaction time and focus fire that determines the outcome, as opposed to the outcome being determined purely by whether or not one side fucks up somehow.
Was watching IdrA use them earlier and if they had any less range they would just get killed before they could get a cast off. They only have 120 HP which isn't a whole lot when Thors and Vikings are pounding away.
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On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP.
How do warhounds make tanks more viable when they're build out of the same structure? "oh look tanks get ripped apart screw building them lets just mass warhounds hellions and vikings and we'll win"
In WoL its zealots counter tanks, hellions counter zealots, stalkers counter hellions/reapers, marauders counter stalkers/immortal (unless you have korean micro)
By looking at HotS its zealots/immortals counter tanks, battle hellions rip apart zealots, stalkers kind of counter hellions, warhounds completely destroy stalkers/immortals and everything else in the way that comes out of robo tech.
With the way haywire missles looks to be there isnt even a need for tanks. People will probably still favour warhounds over tanks as they completely destroy almost every protoss ground unit...
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I personally always thought that warhounds should have been made more like ghosts except instead of cloak, they got speed and durability and instead of snipe they got missiles. Like the one thing I always wanted to see was a spell caster like unit from the factory.
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28095 Posts
Seems like a fair balance patch. Pretty much expected the warhound to get nerfed.
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On September 09 2012 03:48 Smigi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 19:36 Garmer wrote:
the speed of the warhound is crucial, or we have another immobile mech army, they should work in the other department, the speed is perfect I signed in just for this. Are you serious? Do you not understand the fundamentals of mech play? *******MECH PLAY IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMOBILE.******** The issue with 'Mech' in WoL was not its immobility, that is SHOULD be the problem with mech. The issue was, there was no way to deal with charge-lots effectively (hence battle hellion), and the lack of Anti-Air from factory tech. So the battle hellion, and a unit that has a moderate ground attack and a very good aerial attack were the key additions needed. So they fixed part of the issue with the battle hellion. The problem with the warhound is that it does not address any issues with mech. The unit makes mech a mobile composition, which is not what we want, does not provide a aerial attack for terrans to deal with voidray, tempest, phoenix, muta, ect, which is what terran needs. Leave the battle hellion alone. Make tanks siege mode attack a bit stronger. (or something of this sort, don't know how it would effect other match ups) Nerf Warhound ground attack substantially, and add a effective aerial attack. Ideally, the warhound should not be absolutely decimating stalkers, it should be matching up fairly to them. While also having the capability to pew pew some air units.
Let me use two words to describe a solution to your problem: "Goliath online".
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On September 09 2012 14:03 Random_Guy09 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP. How do warhounds make tanks more viable when they're build out of the same structure? "oh look tanks get ripped apart screw building them lets just mass warhounds hellions and vikings and we'll win" In WoL its zealots counter tanks, hellions counter zealots, stalkers counter hellions/reapers, marauders counter stalkers/immortal (unless you have korean micro) By looking at HotS its zealots/immortals counter tanks, battle hellions rip apart zealots, stalkers kind of counter hellions, warhounds completely destroy stalkers/immortals and everything else in the way that comes out of robo tech. With the way haywire missles looks to be there isnt even a need for tanks. People will probably still favour warhounds over tanks as they completely destroy almost every protoss ground unit...
Which is why protoss will go air.... OH WAIT THEY REMOVED CARRIERS! Loloolol. Let me go air without any air units that provide good dps. They tried to make stargate viable by removing the only unit that stargates made that had a good amount of dps. Then threw in a bunch of trash. And gave terran a unit that roflstomps all over every ground composition protoss can make. GG blizz.
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I think it would be good to increase the damage of siege tanks as long as the Zerg counter in the form of vipers is strong enough.
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On September 09 2012 15:24 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 14:03 Random_Guy09 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:25 Jlei wrote:On September 08 2012 06:19 purakushi wrote:On September 08 2012 06:15 Tao367 wrote:On September 08 2012 06:13 purakushi wrote:
I think that the main problem with warhounds is the haywire, not necessarily the main attack. You can just kite stalkers/sentries with its range. I disagree, even on non mechanical units it beats everything. It destroys bio army's extremely quickly and efficiently. Ah, that's true. I guess it needs both nerfs >_< Well, I would mainly like to see haywire be castable, so it at least takes some micro to use. I doubt Blizzard is going to do that, though. Catering to making the game easier... Should haywire still completely ignore immortal shields, though? =\ That's the point of the unit. Make it so Immortal's don't ass rape Tanks. Battle Hellions is so that Zealots don't ass rape tanks. Now that it's DPS is lowered and the Warhound doesn't counter everything, people might actually make Tanks. It's a terribly designed unit but they are trying to make Tanks more viable in TvP. How do warhounds make tanks more viable when they're build out of the same structure? "oh look tanks get ripped apart screw building them lets just mass warhounds hellions and vikings and we'll win" In WoL its zealots counter tanks, hellions counter zealots, stalkers counter hellions/reapers, marauders counter stalkers/immortal (unless you have korean micro) By looking at HotS its zealots/immortals counter tanks, battle hellions rip apart zealots, stalkers kind of counter hellions, warhounds completely destroy stalkers/immortals and everything else in the way that comes out of robo tech. With the way haywire missles looks to be there isnt even a need for tanks. People will probably still favour warhounds over tanks as they completely destroy almost every protoss ground unit... Which is why protoss will go air.... OH WAIT THEY REMOVED CARRIERS! Loloolol. Let me go air without any air units that provide good dps. They tried to make stargate viable by removing the only unit that stargates made that had a good amount of dps. Then threw in a bunch of trash. And gave terran a unit that roflstomps all over every ground composition protoss can make. GG blizz.
Protoss needs the tempest to be a big heavy hitter from the air but it's a bit lackluster and almost makes stargate a dead end tech path. I'd like to see a long distance shot that had a projectile animation that was dodgeable. In turn make it much more powerful almost like a reaver but in the air. Distance would give the enemy a 1 to 2 second window to micro his units out of the way or they get blasted.
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I think a tiny patch was just released because when I loaded the HOTS client just showed 100% and made the patch complete sound.
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On September 08 2012 06:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
Haha, viper buffed even more, jesus
To me, it's a nerf, the appeal of Bliding Swarm was its effectiveness at being a large, area of effect cover spell vs Terran and Zerg biological forces, with the exception of Stalkers, everything else was dealt with via Abduct. Now Abduct is more of a niche spell and Bliding Cloud is the go to spell, it's bad game design IMO.
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I always tought when HOTS hits they would revert the suply depot before barracks requirement and maybe buff tanks to what they used to be. With HOTS they have another chance to make the game work like it was originally wanted to be designed (Dustin DID, in my opinion, understand that every race needs to be overpovered, but later made the game boring as fuck with stupid changes for stupid reasons like small maps, 2v2 reaper/voidray abuse, too much micro required etc.) but theyre just building ontop of WoL the way it is now (boring) which is imo a bad thing.
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On September 09 2012 16:24 MoonCricket wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 06:20 Torte de Lini wrote:
Haha, viper buffed even more, jesus To me, it's a nerf, the appeal of Bliding Swarm was its effectiveness at being a large, area of effect cover spell vs Terran and Zerg biological forces, with the exception of Stalkers, everything else was dealt with via Abduct. Now Abduct is more of a niche spell and Bliding Cloud is the go to spell, it's bad game design IMO.
I see it in a different way. Now both spells will be equally useful. If you are fighting slow units, or immobile like Siege Tanks, it is better to use Blinding Cloud even though it has small AoE, but on the other hand, vs. Protoss I would still only use Abduct, since Protoss can just retreat from Blinding Cloud. Then, I would also use Blinding Cloud on Bio army that has to reposition themselves to be able to shoot, and there isn't a unit in a bio that I should use Abduct over Blinding Cloud. On Warhounds abduct, on Thors you can use both. And obviously everybody will be using Abduct vs. Air units, since Blinding Cloud doesn't work on them.
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The Blinding Cloud...affected area is only 1.5? What is the AOE for Fungal Growth, EMP and Psi Storm? I"m asking because I don't actually know. But would it be reasonable for all four of these to have a similar AOE?
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On September 09 2012 16:54 REFLEX_500 wrote:
The Blinding Cloud...affected area is only 1.5? What is the AOE for Fungal Growth, EMP and Psi Storm? I"m asking because I don't actually know. But would it be reasonable for all four of these to have a similar AOE?
It's really small. There is a video where you can see the past-patch Blinding Cloud from Catz I think but I could find it right now.
Btw: EMP has 1.5 radius after patch. - So it's really small :D
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On September 09 2012 16:29 NukeD wrote:
I always tought when HOTS hits they would revert the suply depot before barracks requirement and maybe buff tanks to what they used to be. With HOTS they have another chance to make the game work like it was originally wanted to be designed (Dustin DID, in my opinion, understand that every race needs to be overpovered, but later made the game boring as fuck with stupid changes for stupid reasons like small maps, 2v2 reaper/voidray abuse, too much micro required etc.) but theyre just building ontop of WoL the way it is now (boring) which is imo a bad thing. There is no reason to revert rax change. Early game didn't changed almost at all except for some early warhound rushes.
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When you look at the warhound, you don't feel that the terrans have human technology and the protoss are the advanced aliens. It should be like BW: Terrans having to cover behind mines to avoid direct confrontation with protoss and firing on them with long range weapons. This actual race design really is the opposite: with colossus doing the siege tank's job, and the Forcefields doing the spider mines' job.
Also, the widow mines shouldn't hit air.. I mean seriously, what is this?
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yeah protoss are not anymore what they used to be..terran take their role which is stupid enough
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Just Nerf Warhound with 3 supply, also this units should be a little slower.. atm early warhound in no-ramp maps are just a gg call.
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EPT
