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Someone somewhere posted this suggestion for the Tempest, and I think it's a great idea. Remove the Fleet Beacon requirement and just give it the range upgrade to begin with. However, tune it to be a Tier 2 Stargate Unit instead of a Tier 3 unit, in both stats and cost/build time. That way it feels like the Protoss have a new mid tier unit. Also, you can put the Carrier back in as the Stargate Tier 3 Fleet Beacon required unit.
The Carrier and Tempest have vastly different roles, despite both being "siege range capital ships."
The Carrier is used as a late game money dump to add to the deathball, particularly against Broodlords. Also, we've recently seen MC use it for a very strong two base all in. Clearly, the Carrier is a "direct confrontation" army unit.
The Tempest is a very long range siege unit that can be used to harass expansions, pick off key units such as Infestors before battles, and other random uses.
I say, keep 'em both with these changes!
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On September 09 2012 03:36 MCDayC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 02:03 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 08 2012 22:28 Rah wrote:On September 08 2012 11:11 Belha wrote:
Stupid Blizzard proud. They will never redisign the retarded Warhound.
U.U If they weren't too proud to redesign the retarded immortal and rebalance the tank, they wouldn't need the retarded warhound. Of course not. Why would they? It's one of the most beloved  unit. Poll: Most loved protoss unit?Stalker (76) 27% Immortal (73) 26% Warp Prism (39) 14% Sentry (38) 13% Phoenix (27) 10% Colossus (12) 4% Mothership (12) 4% Void Ray (5) 2% 282 total votes Your vote: Most loved protoss unit? (Vote): Stalker
(Vote): Sentry
(Vote): Immortal
(Vote): Warp Prism
(Vote): Colossus
(Vote): Phoenix
(Vote): Void Ray
(Vote): Mothership
yeah wtf, Immortal is awesome. Immortal and Warp Prism is even better 
Way to make a poll which purposely leaves out most of the cool protoss units. What MCDayC says backs up my point though. If Immortal was designed as a high burst damage/ droppable type of unit (like reaver), rather than a siege tank counter from the start it would be even more interesting than it is today. Blizzard even admitted they were surprised to find the immortal most often being used in a specialized damage role rather than a damage taking role. The shield ability does nothing good, give it more offense instead to compliment warp prism strategies for it. Then tanks can have a role in the matchup without a crazy addition like warhounds to cover up an old design flaw.
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Exchange oracle for a similar unit of the reaver or just give us the reaver itself and take away the oracle....make tempest tier 2 and adjust stats for it to be tier 2 like and bring back carriers...they need to stop poking toss with these half ass units when the other race are getting decent new units...shit now we have blinding cloud+fungal to deal with let alone abduction+ neural parasite, spine+ swarm host rush, warhound, battle hellion+marauder, etc
/rant lol
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On September 09 2012 05:40 ChoDing wrote:
good bye, sc 2 forever
blizzard gotta make new fucking series soon
please dont make Word of Starcraft -___-
BW was the best and they killed it ...now what...
So. Sick. Of. This.
GTFO already with the brood war shit. We're on the topic of HOTS ffs.
That having been said, all I want is something to breakup the Toss deathball. It's neither fun to play or play against.
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On September 09 2012 09:21 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 05:40 ChoDing wrote:
good bye, sc 2 forever
blizzard gotta make new fucking series soon
please dont make Word of Starcraft -___-
BW was the best and they killed it ...now what... So. Sick. Of. This. GTFO already with the brood war shit. We're on the topic of HOTS ffs. That having been said, all I want is something to breakup the Toss deathball. It's neither fun to play or play against.
Deal. With. It.
GTFO im just being realistic and i am also comparing with HOTS
and if you cant breakup the toss deathball, you are playing wrong fucking game
On September 09 2012 07:50 wcr.4fun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 05:42 ChoDing wrote:On September 09 2012 03:48 Smigi wrote:On September 08 2012 19:36 Garmer wrote:
the speed of the warhound is crucial, or we have another immobile mech army, they should work in the other department, the speed is perfect I signed in just for this. Are you serious? Do you not understand the fundamentals of mech play? *******MECH PLAY IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMOBILE.******** The issue with 'Mech' in WoL was not its immobility, that is SHOULD be the problem with mech. The issue was, there was no way to deal with charge-lots effectively (hence battle hellion), and the lack of Anti-Air from factory tech. So the battle hellion, and a unit that has a moderate ground attack and a very good aerial attack were the key additions needed. So they fixed part of the issue with the battle hellion. The problem with the warhound is that it does not address any issues with mech. The unit makes mech a mobile composition, which is not what we want, does not provide a aerial attack for terrans to deal with voidray, tempest, phoenix, muta, ect, which is what terran needs. Leave the battle hellion alone. Make tanks siege mode attack a bit stronger. (or something of this sort, don't know how it would effect other match ups) Nerf Warhound ground attack substantially, and add a effective aerial attack. Ideally, the warhound should not be absolutely decimating stalkers, it should be matching up fairly to them. While also having the capability to pew pew some air units. double post but mech isnt immobile, if you know how to use them correctly they CAN be the fastest and most annoying mofos outhere learn2play bw kthxbye perhaps in your D league mech can be fast, where mech is nothing but vultures? LOOOOL
i got to C+ in iccup thx Xeris_ChoDing
User was warned for this post
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On September 09 2012 09:09 Rah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 03:36 MCDayC wrote:On September 09 2012 02:03 SarcasmMonster wrote:On September 08 2012 22:28 Rah wrote:On September 08 2012 11:11 Belha wrote:
Stupid Blizzard proud. They will never redisign the retarded Warhound.
U.U If they weren't too proud to redesign the retarded immortal and rebalance the tank, they wouldn't need the retarded warhound. Of course not. Why would they? It's one of the most beloved unit. Poll: Most loved protoss unit?Stalker (76) 27% Immortal (73) 26% Warp Prism (39) 14% Sentry (38) 13% Phoenix (27) 10% Colossus (12) 4% Mothership (12) 4% Void Ray (5) 2% 282 total votes Your vote: Most loved protoss unit? (Vote): Stalker
(Vote): Sentry
(Vote): Immortal
(Vote): Warp Prism
(Vote): Colossus
(Vote): Phoenix
(Vote): Void Ray
(Vote): Mothership
yeah wtf, Immortal is awesome. Immortal and Warp Prism is even better Way to make a poll which purposely leaves out most of the cool protoss units. What MCDayC says backs up my point though. If Immortal was designed as a high burst damage/ droppable type of unit (like reaver), rather than a siege tank counter from the start it would be even more interesting than it is today. Blizzard even admitted they were surprised to find the immortal most often being used in a specialized damage role rather than a damage taking role. The shield ability does nothing good, give it more offense instead to compliment warp prism strategies for it. Then tanks can have a role in the matchup without a crazy addition like warhounds to cover up an old design flaw.
The poll isn't mine, it's from around May. The thread was about "What is your favorite new WOL unit" or something like that, so it only included units not from BW.
But calling Immortals retarded and demanding a replacement does not reflect the community's wishes at all.
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On September 09 2012 09:28 ChoDing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 09:21 Crownlol wrote:On September 09 2012 05:40 ChoDing wrote:
good bye, sc 2 forever
blizzard gotta make new fucking series soon
please dont make Word of Starcraft -___-
BW was the best and they killed it ...now what... So. Sick. Of. This. GTFO already with the brood war shit. We're on the topic of HOTS ffs. That having been said, all I want is something to breakup the Toss deathball. It's neither fun to play or play against. Deal. With. It. GTFO im just being realistic and i am also comparing with HOTS and if you cant breakup the toss deathball, you are playing wrong fucking game Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 07:50 wcr.4fun wrote:On September 09 2012 05:42 ChoDing wrote:On September 09 2012 03:48 Smigi wrote:On September 08 2012 19:36 Garmer wrote:
the speed of the warhound is crucial, or we have another immobile mech army, they should work in the other department, the speed is perfect I signed in just for this. Are you serious? Do you not understand the fundamentals of mech play? *******MECH PLAY IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMOBILE.******** The issue with 'Mech' in WoL was not its immobility, that is SHOULD be the problem with mech. The issue was, there was no way to deal with charge-lots effectively (hence battle hellion), and the lack of Anti-Air from factory tech. So the battle hellion, and a unit that has a moderate ground attack and a very good aerial attack were the key additions needed. So they fixed part of the issue with the battle hellion. The problem with the warhound is that it does not address any issues with mech. The unit makes mech a mobile composition, which is not what we want, does not provide a aerial attack for terrans to deal with voidray, tempest, phoenix, muta, ect, which is what terran needs. Leave the battle hellion alone. Make tanks siege mode attack a bit stronger. (or something of this sort, don't know how it would effect other match ups) Nerf Warhound ground attack substantially, and add a effective aerial attack. Ideally, the warhound should not be absolutely decimating stalkers, it should be matching up fairly to them. While also having the capability to pew pew some air units. double post but mech isnt immobile, if you know how to use them correctly they CAN be the fastest and most annoying mofos outhere learn2play bw kthxbye perhaps in your D league mech can be fast, where mech is nothing but vultures? LOOOOL i got to C+ in iccup thx Xeris_ChoDing
C+ jezus? Next up OSL? lol. No offense, but saying mech is fast was ridiculous. I've seen enough pro tvp to know mech is not fast.
Not to mention you told people to learn2play when you're only C. If you were A on iccup and maybe 1500+ FISH or something your opinion would hold some truth. But for now I'll accept what I see in top korean games and not what a C level player on iccup has to say...
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Hots makes me wish there is a genius who can provide the RTS we are waiting for, CS & DotA were home made afterall, I don't believe in blizzard anymore.
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I hope both mech and bio is gonna be viable for Terran, I play them because I have options, not just to do one strat >.<
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On September 09 2012 10:04 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I hope both mech and bio is gonna be viable for Terran, I play them because I have options, not just to do one strat >.<
Protoss had one viable strat in every match up in the game at one point. Count your blessings already, protoss is already the race with the least options of which to choose. The biggest choice you have to make in pvt for example is which aoe you want first, colossus or storm.
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Is there any change with hydra speed going down to lair tech? I have no seen a lot of HOTS yet but are hydras used more now?
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The real problem I was noticing with the Warhound was the haywire missle, not necessarily the Railgun.
I assume the next patch will address that, because that's the real balance problem (that and its cost).
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On September 09 2012 10:35 Tao367 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 10:04 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I hope both mech and bio is gonna be viable for Terran, I play them because I have options, not just to do one strat >.< Protoss had one viable strat in every match up in the game at one point. Count your blessings already, protoss is already the race with the least options of which to choose. The biggest choice you have to make in pvt for example is which aoe you want first, colossus or storm.
So we should be focusing on giving Protoss more options, not trying to limit what Terrans can do because Protoss is poorly designed that way.
Better idea no?
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10387 Posts
On September 09 2012 09:43 wcr.4fun wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 09:28 ChoDing wrote:On September 09 2012 09:21 Crownlol wrote:On September 09 2012 05:40 ChoDing wrote:
good bye, sc 2 forever
blizzard gotta make new fucking series soon
please dont make Word of Starcraft -___-
BW was the best and they killed it ...now what... So. Sick. Of. This. GTFO already with the brood war shit. We're on the topic of HOTS ffs. That having been said, all I want is something to breakup the Toss deathball. It's neither fun to play or play against. Deal. With. It. GTFO im just being realistic and i am also comparing with HOTS and if you cant breakup the toss deathball, you are playing wrong fucking game On September 09 2012 07:50 wcr.4fun wrote:On September 09 2012 05:42 ChoDing wrote:On September 09 2012 03:48 Smigi wrote:On September 08 2012 19:36 Garmer wrote:
the speed of the warhound is crucial, or we have another immobile mech army, they should work in the other department, the speed is perfect I signed in just for this. Are you serious? Do you not understand the fundamentals of mech play? *******MECH PLAY IS SUPPOSED TO BE IMMOBILE.******** The issue with 'Mech' in WoL was not its immobility, that is SHOULD be the problem with mech. The issue was, there was no way to deal with charge-lots effectively (hence battle hellion), and the lack of Anti-Air from factory tech. So the battle hellion, and a unit that has a moderate ground attack and a very good aerial attack were the key additions needed. So they fixed part of the issue with the battle hellion. The problem with the warhound is that it does not address any issues with mech. The unit makes mech a mobile composition, which is not what we want, does not provide a aerial attack for terrans to deal with voidray, tempest, phoenix, muta, ect, which is what terran needs. Leave the battle hellion alone. Make tanks siege mode attack a bit stronger. (or something of this sort, don't know how it would effect other match ups) Nerf Warhound ground attack substantially, and add a effective aerial attack. Ideally, the warhound should not be absolutely decimating stalkers, it should be matching up fairly to them. While also having the capability to pew pew some air units. double post but mech isnt immobile, if you know how to use them correctly they CAN be the fastest and most annoying mofos outhere learn2play bw kthxbye perhaps in your D league mech can be fast, where mech is nothing but vultures? LOOOOL i got to C+ in iccup thx Xeris_ChoDing C+ jezus? Next up OSL? lol. No offense, but saying mech is fast was ridiculous. I've seen enough pro tvp to know mech is not fast. Not to mention you told people to learn2play when you're only C. If you were A on iccup and maybe 1500+ FISH or something your opinion would hold some truth. But for now I'll accept what I see in top korean games and not what a C level player on iccup has to say...
C+ back before SC2 was released, which is like at least B nowadays k. A lot better than you can do, judging from what I can tell eh?
There's a key difference between "fast" and "immobile" .. mech can be "fast", but it's "immobile" when it needs to effectively engage in a fight. So yes, mech is actually pretty fuckin quick, especially when the other player doesn't stall the push by repeatedly engaging (this happens more often than you think in timing push TvP)
IMO part of the solution of making warhound fit into mech, is to give it a transformation mode much like Siege tanks and Hellions.
Also, Protoss having a deathball is not the problem. In fact in BW, Protoss had deathballs in PvZ, and Terran had deathballs in TvP, and Terran/Zerg would have their own deathballs in TvZ. The problem is that in SC2 the interactions against these deathballs are not interesting (i.e. PvZ, where Zerg resorts to Broodlords because it's impossible to beat Protoss deathball otherwise). It also doesn't help that a certain unit (colossus) doesn't make controlling these deathballs very interesting either. It's up to Blizzard to make fighting against the deathball more interesting, and I think Vipers are a good step toward that direction.
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On September 09 2012 05:40 ChoDing wrote:
good bye, sc 2 forever
I don't understand. Why have you posted another half dozen times in this thread since you've said your goodbye? You sure do have an odd definition of "good bye" and "forever".
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On September 09 2012 05:45 Chaosvuistje wrote:
I like the tinkering with blinding cloud, but I feel that it lacks excitement because of the long range. I think it would bring more excitement if the range was reduced so the viper has to be more exposed, I mean 9 range is a lot for a spell that basically makes tanks useless if they are sieged up.
That way you can have the spell be either used in retreat or in have the viper be more at risk for trying to use it offensively. To have it work more positionally rather than the feel that it can just be cast from everywhere like the abduct spell.
I agree with the warhound and the swarm host change though. While I love the swarm host's concept the locusts were just a little bit too beefy for a free unit. Warhound should really just be removed, see absolutely no room for excitement in that unit.
So it would be like a zerg raven???
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On September 09 2012 12:48 StarStruck wrote:
Hello Dark Swarm.
More like disruption swarm :D
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Think the warhound design itself is flawed but they're probably not going to change it this late in production.
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EPT
