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On June 02 2011 23:21 MrHoon wrote: Why can't we ever have a fantasy/scifi storyline without some kind of Gandalf?
I mean is it really that hard? This is so true that its laughable.
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I think I have to agree with some of the above that of all the issues in WoL campaign (the bipolar characters due to the mission structure and the whole retcon of the Overmind) Tassadar is one of the least important (although a bit of the slap in the face.)
Here's hoping HotS digs the game out of some of the holes. At the very least, I'll settle for a better presentation of a mediocre story rather than the uniformly poor pairing we got last time.
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On June 04 2011 02:35 ClysmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 23:21 MrHoon wrote: Why can't we ever have a fantasy/scifi storyline without some kind of Gandalf?
I mean is it really that hard? This is so true that its laughable.
Wow. My mind is very nearly blown, but I realize you're generally right.
Star Trek doesn't have a Gandalf character usually, though. I think it depends if it's trying to be scifi of the epic variety or not.
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On June 04 2011 03:10 nali_us wrote:Show nested quote +On June 04 2011 02:35 ClysmiC wrote:On June 02 2011 23:21 MrHoon wrote: Why can't we ever have a fantasy/scifi storyline without some kind of Gandalf?
I mean is it really that hard? This is so true that its laughable. Wow. My mind is very nearly blown, but I realize you're generally right. Star Trek doesn't have a Gandalf character usually, though. I think it depends if it's trying to be scifi of the epic variety or not. Spok was the Gandalf of the new movie
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Yea, he's still dead his spirit just remains. After all, when templars die they can still be communicated with at the Templar Archives (am I wrong here?) or something with Archons...
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I bet the ghost image of Tassadar is a made up tool of the Dark Voice to manipulate Zeratul. Yeah, if we ever get a Tassadar who laughes and say "come on Zeratul, did you actually believe a random prophecy?" and turns into the Dark Voice, I'd praise the writers' names on every forum, put a picture of them on my wall and bow before it every time I start the game. But honestly, I'm not convinced that will happen.
Off topic: I found the Warcraft 3 plot to be excellent oO There was no actual prophecy in it, Medivh called himself the Prophet, but the only thing he knew was that the Legion would come back. The rest was just for the show. The game even goes out of his way to explain that, although manipulated by the demons, the orcs comitted all their crimes in their own free will. The atmosphere was much darker than the one in SC2 (not as dark as Brood War but still), the humans were the weakest of the four faction by the end of the game, and even the final teamup made sense.
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On June 02 2011 01:55 mattekillert wrote: Tassadar must return to teach us the most important thing of all. YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS! Pretty sure Aldaris taught us enough of that.
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Blizzard hasn't been able to put together a cohesive storyline since the original SC. WC3, WoW and SC2 all use the same plot with the same characters. The only difference is the slight change of setting. It's 2011, mediocrity abounds.
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The funniest thing I find about that comment by Browder is when that he talks about how they had to bring in Tassadar for the big reveal to Zeratul about the Overmind's motivations because otherwise Zeratul wouldn't believe it, Browder is inadvertently touching upon exactly how I felt when I saw that scene - I couldn't believe they actually came up with a plot like that. And unlike Zeratul, having Tassadar magically show up to monologue about it doesn't leave me satisfied.
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On June 04 2011 05:26 Fleebenworth wrote: Blizzard hasn't been able to put together a cohesive storyline since the original SC. WC3, WoW and SC2 all use the same plot with the same characters. The only difference is the slight change of setting. It's 2011, mediocrity abounds.
If they all use the same plot, then they simply expressed it far better in WarCraft 3. It had compelling characters--I mean, Atrus goes full-on evil, but his path up until getting his soul stolen was entirely understandable. The Orc's freedom was compelling, and the humans were relatable but at the same time not perfect good guys to root for. Everyone had a dynamic level.
Needless to say I don't see that in WoL. The plot is ill-defined and full of contradictions, and the characters are largely uncompelling, one-note, or the opposite of what we expected from everything that came before.
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i think it was more of a plot seed - not something they put a ton of thought into when they did it, but they'll probably vamp off it later.
i still wasn't totally thrilled with it tbh, but whatever, i'm trying to roll with it. most science fiction has cheesy plot devices and you just have to suspend belief with those things in order to enjoy the good stuff.
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On June 04 2011 05:13 EchOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:55 mattekillert wrote: Tassadar must return to teach us the most important thing of all. YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS! Pretty sure Aldaris taught us enough of that.
There can never be enough pylons to satisfy the toss race.
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oh right the fun thing of warcraft 3. While in warcraft 2 guldan summons demons and loses control in warcraft 3 the demons suddenly are the ones that made the orks evil, so funny. Guess guldan missed that demons are his bosses by that time hehe. Still sad Lothar died, i played that mission so often until i could save him hehe. Warcraft 1 ki was the best anyway. And Medivh the person ... responsible for the orc invasion, now saving the world was ... Still warcraft 3 was a nice story.
I am happy as long as a game doesn't rewrite history as much as WoW did hehe. (but the books scattered all around are still lovely)
Sc2 ist also a nice story, but there will bugs in the history, i mean 11 years apart from the games hehe.
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Why do people take details in stories so seriously? I mean, I wasnt that far into the SC1/BW storyline, but why is the WoL storyline so bad? I see WoL as kind of a beginning. No big story just booms all the way down. Raynor kinda retired, Tychus showed up and reminded him of the good old times, Kerrigan showed up again and needed to be dealt with, Zeratul showed up and warned not to kill Kerrigan and now with HotS and LotV the fun epic part begins. At least, that is what I expect.
And on the whole storyhole thing: Try to create a whole universe, an epic story with sooo many characters, so many plot lines and not screw up ANYTHING. And: let it be awesome all the time and do not copy anything from what has been there before! Go, try it. There will always be holes in stories. Every series has a lot of them. Some are annoying, some aren´t. Just deal with it dammit. You can´t build a storyline with many people involved and not screw up anything. Calm down, enjoy and wait for the expansions to kick ass.
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I guess y'all have never played wow. In upcoming patch we are killing a boss that we killed 5 years ago, nobody is ever dead according to blizz.
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On June 05 2011 09:39 Macmacmacmac wrote: I guess y'all have never played wow. In upcoming patch we are killing a boss that we killed 5 years ago, nobody is ever dead according to blizz.
Again? Which one is it now? Stopped playing WoW after WotLK.
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On June 05 2011 09:47 Rankath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2011 09:39 Macmacmacmac wrote: I guess y'all have never played wow. In upcoming patch we are killing a boss that we killed 5 years ago, nobody is ever dead according to blizz. Again? Which one is it now? Stopped playing WoW after WotLK. From my SC2 account I've seen old WoW friends in Zul'gurub/Zul'Aman and BWL... they just reuse old content, it's sad.
Also, lol:
World of Warcraft patch 4.2 will offer hardy adventurers an opportunity to turn the tide in the Firelands, a huge outdoor raid of the highest difficulty, with 10-person and 25-person normal and Heroic modes. It will be a scorching opportunity to delve into this Elemental Plane, where six unique bosses stand between you and the reinvigorated Ragnaros.
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they shat on the story line
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The Tassadar thing didn't really bother me at all, what bothered me was the whole "The Overmind was being used". From someone who played the original game numerous times, the Overmind was just so unforgiving and vicious and went to Auir to make his species "Perfect". I can't take the idea he was being used seriously at all.
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If Blizzard wants to fix this plot hole they can just explain it away to be that when Tassadar crashed the Gantrithor into the Overmind he and the Overmind merged into one being, which is the Dark Voice(This theory could be somewhat supported by the fact that the Dark Voice's portrait looks like Tassadar with some zerg affectations). Now the dark voice is still pursuing the Overmind's original goal of merging the zerg and the protoss.The image Tassadar showed to Zeratul wasn't a real foretelling of the future simply a false vision to convince him that Kerrigan needed to be saved, as she is somehow still integral to the Dark Voice's plan.
If they did it that way not only would it be kind of a left field haha gotcha bitches moment when they revealed it, it would also allow them to stick to zerg being a evil bi-organism out to prefect its evolution. Not the hurp derp zerg are gonna be good goise now in heart of the swarm. Which is probably the direction Blizzard is already going in.
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