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I agree with Chill 100%.
The story in WoL was just a load of shit. I'm sorry for my vulgarity but I'm not sorry for my description of its quality. The plot drivers in WoL ranged from the uninspired ragtag rebellion against Mengsk to the biggest cheapskate plot device of all - prophecies. When you know that random prophecies are prone to pop out anywhere to explain a significant plot turn, you just completely lose interest in the details of the plot. Analysing events, characters and motivations become meaningless when a random prophecy can pop out and change everything. Dramatic and crucial events in the story so far lose all meaning when the writers are willing to go "oops, Tassader isn't really dead lolol". It's like using the classic "you woke up from a nightmare" cliche.
Starcraft 2 story seems to me as if it's beyond saving. The story of WoL seems not only meaningless (as the main event of Kerrigan's purification seems to be just completely reversed in the HotS storyline) but has also dealt a fatal blow to the credibility of the entire storyline. Furthermore, the "choice" missions are completely incongruous with storytelling. Either the choices you make are meaningless, or Blizzard will have to create alternate universes for the rest of the story.
Sorry for my rant, but the story of WoL campaign was just bad bad bad bad bad BAD!
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I have no issue with the fact that Tassadar might not "truly" be dead, with the whole protoss concept of reincarnation, and the void, and energy and all that jazz. But to have him hanging in limbo with the overmind, and as an another poster mentioned, his sacrifice having actually meant nothing. Pretty much a slap in the face to fans of the Protoss Campaign, Tassadar in general, and the epic SC1 story as a whole.
Not enough time to work out/fix the story? LOL. Give me a break. More browder bullshit. What the hell were they doing the past decade and a half? Blizzard just keeps confirming they don't seem to give two shits about delivering an actual piece of quality, rather than just a manufactured product.
My expectations for HOTS continue to fall.
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Tassadar must return to teach us the most important thing of all. YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS!
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good to know what everyone thinks about the people returning as ghosts in starwars. Well i expected to see khadgar again after he blew up the portal when wc3 was announced or atleast some survivors. Storys won't always be as you want them to be, i really missed the hereos send out in beyond the dark portal in wc3. Well atleast they have their place in new stormwind.
On a side note yay i knew tassadar would come back as a ghost, though i predicted it for bw. (strongest psyonic in the toss army ... what else can you expect if he uses all his might at once and finds out that he made a mistake)
Anyway for me the sc2 story is good considering its a scifi rts. compared to others scifi games ... its probably very good (thinks of mass effect story line)
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I was under the assumption that the internet as a whole disapproved of WoL's storyline.
People actually like that hunk of crap?
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Metzen got too used to operating with World of Warcraft lore- making it up as it goes.
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I'm pretty sure he is dead, he's just like obiwan, and can appear in visions an stuff. Like, they can revive zealots into dragoons, so why can't a high templar have a spirit form and interact with others?
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On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
On June 01 2011 22:47 floor exercise wrote:
"We're not sure about the original game"
- SC2 development team, 2011
This.
What kind of professional gives an answer like that? Seriously? Especially coming from the "oh-we-spend-5-years-building-a-game-to-garantee-that-the-quality-is-perfect-for-the-fans"?
I love SC & BW's storyline, it was full of emotional moments, and Tassadar's sacrifice was one of the best things ever...
And now this...
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Calgary25981 Posts
I think it's a fine answer. How can they know why the team, 13 years ago, didn't kill Tassadar?
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Original Starcraft story was lead by Chris Metzen and James Phinney. Phinney left for GW but Metzen is still in charge of SC lore. He wasnt present at interview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft
Also brings up another point. Usually when fans pitch these lore clarification questions (Blizzcon) its usually Metzen or another creative development dev. They usually try to give their interpretation of events or clarify whats cannon. Dustin and david are more designer devs and Sigaty is a producer. There not the best people to ask.
That said I also felt Tassadar's reappearance cheapened his (and the players) actions in SC1. On the whole I felt that plot "development" took much more from Starcrafts lore than it gave back.
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On June 02 2011 03:32 Chill wrote:
I think it's a fine answer. How can they know why the team, 13 years ago, didn't kill Tassadar?
To me it looked like they were speaking for the whole crew, not the ones being interviewed.
Someone in the crew should know the lore behind the game...
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On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
Me too. And WarCraft, and Diablo. They've just made it so shitty... they don't have the old style they used to. Not to mention WarCraft's story is full of inconsistencies and plot holes.
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On June 02 2011 01:32 tyCe wrote:
I agree with Chill 100%.
The story in WoL was just a load of shit. I'm sorry for my vulgarity but I'm not sorry for my description of its quality. The plot drivers in WoL ranged from the uninspired ragtag rebellion against Mengsk to the biggest cheapskate plot device of all - prophecies. When you know that random prophecies are prone to pop out anywhere to explain a significant plot turn, you just completely lose interest in the details of the plot. Analysing events, characters and motivations become meaningless when a random prophecy can pop out and change everything. Dramatic and crucial events in the story so far lose all meaning when the writers are willing to go "oops, Tassader isn't really dead lolol". It's like using the classic "you woke up from a nightmare" cliche.
Starcraft 2 story seems to me as if it's beyond saving. The story of WoL seems not only meaningless (as the main event of Kerrigan's purification seems to be just completely reversed in the HotS storyline) but has also dealt a fatal blow to the credibility of the entire storyline. Furthermore, the "choice" missions are completely incongruous with storytelling. Either the choices you make are meaningless, or Blizzard will have to create alternate universes for the rest of the story.
Sorry for my rant, but the story of WoL campaign was just bad bad bad bad bad BAD!
Listen to this man: he knows what he's talking about.
The only bit of the WoL storyline I genuinely enjoyed was the cutscene where Tychus was talking to Matt about Kerrigan and Raynor. And that's ignoring the shaky cam bad horror movie Kerrigan kills some random dude footage Tychus was showing us.
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On June 01 2011 20:37 Telenil wrote:Show nested quote +If Tassadar really was just a vision to Zeratul, then yes, that would be kinda cheap. But if what Tassadar essentially said about his immortality and transcendence is going to be the direction Blizz really wants to take it, then that doesn't cheapen his sacrifice in SC1 at all.
Think of it like this; Tassadar really did sacrifice himself. He (most likely) didn't know he was going to transcend into a higher form on impact, he (most likely) thought he was going to die. He (most likely) really was giving his life in a final heroic effort to end the Overmind. So when he opens his eyes and realizes that he's not dead, that he's transcended mortality, he's like, "Oh, cool story, bro. Let's check out this whole immortality/transcendence business." I don't agree. Most characters, from Raynor to Artanis, are ready to die for a cause if they have to. The unnamed protoss commanders who sacrificed themselves to lure Kerrigan's forces out of position while Zeratul killed Zasz are more heroic to me, because they are soldiers who did die. Tassadar is a soldier who, transcended or not, survived. Besides, Tassadar sacrificed himself to destroy the most terrible enemy of the Sector. Now we're told that the Overmind was only a puppet (and an unwilling one) in the hands of The Darkest Voice. If Tassadar sacrificed only his body and not his life, and that the enemy he destroyed was not the mastermind behind the story, then the final scene of the original game loses practically all the strength it had. As far as I'm concerned, I'll be happy if Blizzard just re-retcons the concept of Tassadar being brought or ignore it altogether. Sure, it would weaken the prophecy/vision/DOOOOOOOM™ part of the plot, but in my humble opinion, all the more reason to do it. This entire plot line, including but not limited to Tassadar's survival, is a succession cheap plot devices. It should never have existed, least of all retcon the original storyline.
Valid points, and all the characters who were and are ready to die in the war are all very heroic and noble. Here's the thing about sacrifice, though; it's less about the act itself than it is the willingness to commit the act. Tassadar didn't know at the time what would happen to him. He really was giving his life to the cause. Just because he still has it doesn't change his willingness in that moment. In that sense he is just as much a hero as Raynor, etc.
Re: your point about the Overmind not being the mastermind behind the story, I feel ya there. My very first reaction when I got to that part of the cutscene in WoL was, "Oh, this old plot twist? Sigh. Alright, I'll roll with it." After you've seen the whole The Bad Guy Wasn't Really The Bad Guy and Dun dun DUN, There's Something Worse a few dozen times, the plot twist isn't much of a twist anymore.
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On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
yea its pretty lame, after a few interviews about how they came up with the lore i was really disappointed in how little they seemed to care. they'll bs it now just to make something cool.
just like with Warcraft lore, they butchered the hell out of it.
I only hole that Diablo wont be the same... but I won't get my hopes up
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On June 02 2011 05:16 PhiliBiRD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore. yea its pretty lame, after a few interviews about how they came up with the lore i was really disappointed in how little they seemed to care. they'll bs it now just to make something cool. just like with Warcraft lore, they butchered the hell out of it. I only hole that Diablo wont be the same... but I won't get my hopes up
And what's worse is that their definition of "cool" isn't even that great. Apparently overloading your game with cliche B-grade action movie dialogue, recycling the WC3 plot, and ridiculously overused prophecy plot devices is "cool".
I just wish Blizzard would stop BSing us over how super dedicated they are to the story and crap. They can make a game, but it's clear that their writing team just makes shit up on the spot regardless of how poorly it's supported by previous lore. HotS doesn't really get my hopes up story-wise since I still hear a lot of corny dialogue, and I really don't believe that they will make it much better than it is now. My confidence in their writing is really that low.
At least the campaign missions should be fun. That's one good thing I can take out of it.
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On June 01 2011 16:23 VorcePA wrote:
Whatever they plan to do with him, they need to get the original voice actor back on him. I cringed when I listened to the "new" Tassadar. He was easily my favorite character from SC1
Isn't the original voice actor deceased? I'm not trolling, I actually thought I read this somewhere. Anyway, I'm as pissed off about Tassadar as the rest of us...but like Chill I've really given up on the story. I just hope the campaign in HotS is more fun than WoL.
Well, I guess what I'm even more pissed at is that Raynor's BEST FRIEND Fenix isn't even mentioned in WoL. He could have at least had a pic of Fenix next to his liquor bottles instead of Kerrigan...I mean, it's because of Fenix he swore he'd have Kerrigan's head on a platter.
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On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
yea it's unbelievably bad... the only good part is the graphics. whoever did graphics deserves a promotion
the storyline is just wow...i've played most of it over again, and the first time was unbearable the next few times i just skipped it entirely halfway..
and tassadar? to have zeratul believe whatever a hologram image from the overmind says? at least try to make it known that protoss have psionic link and psionic signature that cannot be easily duped... at least try to haze zeratul obtain more evidence that the overmind is what "tassadar" says it is... we are all adults and to have logical fallacies (appeal to authority) happen in our games is a severe turn off.
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On June 02 2011 07:17 IzieBoy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote:
I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore. yea it's unbelievably bad... the only good part is the graphics. whoever did graphics deserves a promotion the storyline is just wow...i've played most of it over again, and the first time was unbearable the next few times i just skipped it entirely halfway.. and tassadar? to have zeratul believe whatever a hologram image from the overmind says? at least try to make it known that protoss have psionic link and psionic signature that cannot be easily duped... at least try to haze zeratul obtain more evidence that the overmind is what "tassadar" says it is... we are all adults and to have logical fallacies (appeal to authority) happen in our games is a severe turn off.
Well the Dark Templar cut their nerve cords as a sign of defiance to the Khalai, Zeratul wouldn't be able to feel if it was Tassadar or not.
The thing is that deceased protoss become a part of the psionic network. I'm not sure if they can interact with the living, but they certainly exist and their presence can be felt. This is why Tassadar's sacrifice was seen as such a big thing for the Khalai, and why he was seen as Adun's equal: he was destroyed so utterly that no trace of him remained in the network, and sacrificed himself for the good of his entire race. The fact that he returned as a spirit really is something of a slap in the face.
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Tassadar death only removed his physical form and transcended to a spirit form (like Obiwan).
They didn't just add Tassadar to give WoL a more interesting plot. Chris Metzen, author of SC/BW story, explains what happens to tassadar through the starcraft books which fills the backstory of sc/bw and its correlation with sc2.
He explains it in Blizzcon 07' lore panel interview:
Tassadar channels both his own psionic energies and those of the dark templar through the hull of his flagship and crashes it into the Overmind. The resulting discharge of energy destroys the Overmind and transcends Tassadar to a new level of spiritual existence; Metzen refers to this transformation as becoming a "twilight messiah".
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