On June 02 2011 09:26 Starkye wrote: Tassadar death only removed his physical form and transcended to a spirit form (like Obiwan). They didn't just add Tassadar to give WoL a more interesting plot. Chris Metzen, author of SC/BW story, explains what happens to tassadar through the starcraft books which fills the backstory of sc/bw and its correlation with sc2.
He explains it in Blizzcon 07' lore panel interview: Tassadar channels both his own psionic energies and those of the dark templar through the hull of his flagship and crashes it into the Overmind. The resulting discharge of energy destroys the Overmind and transcends Tassadar to a new level of spiritual existence; Metzen refers to this transformation as becoming a "twilight messiah".
That's one of my major complaints regarding Blizzard lore. With each passing year they put more and more story into the side materials, which ends up leaving the actual games feel hollow and empty. I always found it strange that Blizzard apparently operates under the philosophy of keeping SC newbies up to date by not bringing up anything that happened in previous games so as to not confuse them, but then they put a crapton of novel-only characters that only a tiny portion of the fanbase would know about. They refuse to mention Fenix, but have no problem shoving Stettman and Matt in our faces.
It's kinda like what happened with the Star Wars prequels. The actual movies are crap because so much of the interesting stuff is packed into the novels and cartoons. Especially the Jedi characters because you basically can't relate to them at all unless you've seen the side material beforehand. Blizzard is pretty much going down the same road with their lore, which I simply can't understand at all because it has such a detrimental effect on their in-game stories. Unfortunately it's a bit too late to reverse the trend now since Blizzard has no shown no indication that they have any problem with it.
On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote: I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
I might have to do the same thing. Some people brought up excuses but I don't know.
Well, in the books and the SC1 movie scene of him flying in to the Overmind, you can kind of make some references to the "ascension" of Adun. Adun tutored, what became the Dark Templars, into how to use their powers in a more acceptable light. By doing this, he began to learn their powers. In protection of the Dark Templars, he used both his dark and "light" (normal, I guess) abilities and he "disappeared" in a ball of light.
The protoss believed this to be a form of ascension. I've always considered Tassadar's combining of the crystals (one dark, one light) in his carrier, followed by his final selfless act, to be that very same form of ascension that Adun had. Adun "ascended" without having any violence inflicted upon him or crashing a carrier in to the ground. Tassadar turned the carrier in to this same "ball of light" that Adun had been during his final act.
Personally, I don't consider this explanation to cheapen anything by having shown his face in one single scene of the game. Personally, I think people are sometimes just looking for things to hate because SC2 wasn't as grimdark as SC1. I expected Tassadar to come back in some light or another after reading the books, before SC2 was even out. I don't really feel its cheapened anything
On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote: I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
yea its pretty lame, after a few interviews about how they came up with the lore i was really disappointed in how little they seemed to care. they'll bs it now just to make something cool.
just like with Warcraft lore, they butchered the hell out of it.
I only hole that Diablo wont be the same... but I won't get my hopes up
And what's worse is that their definition of "cool" isn't even that great. Apparently overloading your game with cliche B-grade action movie dialogue, recycling the WC3 plot, and ridiculously overused prophecy plot devices is "cool".
I just wish Blizzard would stop BSing us over how super dedicated they are to the story and crap. They can make a game, but it's clear that their writing team just makes shit up on the spot regardless of how poorly it's supported by previous lore. HotS doesn't really get my hopes up story-wise since I still hear a lot of corny dialogue, and I really don't believe that they will make it much better than it is now. My confidence in their writing is really that low.
At least the campaign missions should be fun. That's one good thing I can take out of it.
What's funny is that WC3's plot is just SC's plot done badly. I absolutely hated WC3's plot. It was full of non-sequitur, illogical decisions and plain old Deus Ex Machinas.
Watch this video guys. First Tassadar says he speaks from the beyond. Zeratul then asks Tassadar how he survived after he was killed while slaying the Overmind. Tassadar explicitly says that it is a tale for another time, meaning he wasn't just added without back to it, the back story was just excluded from the scene. There is a reason for him being there though. After Tassadar talks to Zeratul, Zeratul says that he cannot bear this vision. This reinforces the point that Tassadar might not have actually been there but rather just been a vision which isn't that uncommon.
On June 02 2011 03:36 Archerofaiur wrote: Original Starcraft story was lead by Chris Metzen and James Phinney. Phinney left for GW but Metzen is still in charge of SC lore. He wasnt present at interview. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft
Also brings up another point. Usually when fans pitch these lore clarification questions (Blizzcon) its usually Metzen or another creative development dev. They usually try to give their interpretation of events or clarify whats cannon. Dustin and david are more designer devs and Sigaty is a producer. There not the best people to ask.
That said I also felt Tassadar's reappearance cheapened his (and the players) actions in SC1. On the whole I felt that plot "development" took much more from Starcrafts lore than it gave back.
was pissed when tassadar reappeared wtf @ that moment completely destroys the significance of his sacrafice if he just comes back. even if he is ascended or whatever fantasy based reason
chris metzen feels like the crazy guy with all these wild ideas that are just nuts and james phinney kept him grounded on earth story writing used to be one of blizzard's biggest strengths now stuff doesn't make sense and is just outright crazy
i was REALLY dissapointed in that hots campaign is just turning out to be the same as WoL. but you talk to a zerg thing instead of hanson or whatever in all the interviews they said that was the most difficult thing to NOT just do the same as WoL i thought they meant they wanted to do something different not to mention the entire zerg storyline so far seems identical to brood war. running around fighting zerg to regain control of them. why are we playing brood war again with worse writing.
On June 02 2011 12:40 Nokarot wrote: Well, in the books and the SC1 movie scene of him flying in to the Overmind, you can kind of make some references to the "ascension" of Adun. Adun tutored, what became the Dark Templars, into how to use their powers in a more acceptable light. By doing this, he began to learn their powers. In protection of the Dark Templars, he used both his dark and "light" (normal, I guess) abilities and he "disappeared" in a ball of light.
The protoss believed this to be a form of ascension. I've always considered Tassadar's combining of the crystals (one dark, one light) in his carrier, followed by his final selfless act, to be that very same form of ascension that Adun had. Adun "ascended" without having any violence inflicted upon him or crashing a carrier in to the ground. Tassadar turned the carrier in to this same "ball of light" that Adun had been during his final act.
Personally, I don't consider this explanation to cheapen anything by having shown his face in one single scene of the game. Personally, I think people are sometimes just looking for things to hate because SC2 wasn't as grimdark as SC1. I expected Tassadar to come back in some light or another after reading the books, before SC2 was even out. I don't really feel its cheapened anything
I guess most people where to young to realize this when they played sc1 and didn't have alot of understanding from the storyline and never read some side material, so they just saw a great boom. And when replaying the campaigns always skipped the mission briefing. Anyway the greatest sacrifice for a protoss is to give up his body and morph into an archon. So it was a great sacrifice from tassader even if he is now still a ghost.
Campaign was awesome but the plot is really lacking and annoying. I found myself wanting to skip most of the cutscenes. Felt too much like warcraft 3. Dark voice and being overrun by this new race of supercreatures from the void? wtf that's like the same damn plot.
Not to mention Jim Raynor being all mopey about his girlfriend, I don't recall any romantic hints in Brood War and Kerrigan had long been zerg'd by that point. So it seems like that also was pulled out of thin air.
Speaking of cutscenes why weren't there any cool ones. The only cool scene was zeratul/kerrigan. I remember SC1 had cutscenes of terran getting zerg'd. One had dragoons being warped in by arbiters and jacking a terran base, that stuff still gives me chills because it's so cool. That one cutscene where Fenix is getting overrun and his psi blades start to fail? $$$
I physically winced when I heard "Tassadar? But... you died!" I loved WoL's campaign gameplay, it was brilliant, but that one scene was so bad, especially from Zeratul's voice actor, that it just ruined the protoss minicampaign for me. The only way of "redeeming" it for me would be for it to have been a trap set by the Overmind to make sure Kerrigan wouldn't be killed.
I agree with the guy who said that the guy who did the graphics should be promoted though - those were beautiful. Especially the fight between Zeratul and Kerrigan, that has GOT to be my favorite cutscene (even if prerendered) of every videogame ever.
I wouldn't worry about this hole until the LoTV story is told. What we are getting from the WOL plotline is one point of view for the most part. They could have something lined up for LoTV that they did not want to spoil, and so they gave the answer that made them look clueless. Blizzard is good at making themselves look stupid, but then all of a sudden everything clicks and it is like "how did they do that?".
Ever since that dude stood up and called out Blizzard on WoW lore at that one Blizzcon I gave up on believing they could keep things straight. I liked the Tassadar character and wanted him to be dead though since he did sacrifice himself but if there gonna bring him back then bring him back and don't be so lopsided on the whole thing lol.
My friend brought up an interesting "possible scenario" that would look like a good save if Blizzard did it. I don't personally know if it would be "good". The idea is that the whole Tassadar thing was actually a fake - a sort of double feint from the Overmind to confuse Zeratul... Oh well, just an idea.
I think it is quite obvious that in Void Tassadar will be revealed as Toss Jesus.
But yeah I wasn't too happy when he was brought back. Unless he isn't really back and that is some sort of Kali or whatever projection of him. But even that doesn't really fit because the character he appeared too shouldn't have any such link.
On June 01 2011 13:42 Arterial wrote: I, like many others, was like "bleh -.-" when Tassadar appeared.
His death in BW was powerful and interesting, reviving him is a real shame.
I'm hoping there's more behind the scene stuff going on than WOL puts on.
You should read the books: Queen of Blades and the Dark Templar book series. There it is essentially revealed that through combining the skills of a High Templar and a Dark Templar, Tassadar somehow managed to reach another level of existence (the same thing happened to or was done by Adun according to Zeratul's suspicions).
so they went the star wars/return of the jedi obi-won kenobi/ yoda another plane of existence via the force route
On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote: I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
Agreed, I feel like whoever developed the plotline and script of Starcraft II didn't give two shits about what happened in Brood War and just wanted to do his own thing :/
On June 02 2011 01:11 Chill wrote: I've given up on the Starcraft story. I enjoy playing the single player but I just don't believe in the storyline anymore.
I really agree with this (except for the single player, I don't have sc2). The story of Starcraft has become warcraft-y for me, this is why I gave it up when I knew how it went. Reading this thread gave some comfort in the fact that I'm not the only one with opinions like these.
I didn't know that Tassadar was confirmed as the Twilight Messiah (Anakh S'un in Nerazim myth). I'm so uninterested at the plot anymore that I didn't bother to know this.
Watch this video guys. First Tassadar says he speaks from the beyond. Zeratul then asks Tassadar how he survived after he was killed while slaying the Overmind. Tassadar explicitly says that it is a tale for another time, meaning he wasn't just added without back to it, the back story was just excluded from the scene.
EPT
