EPTDid they click "Yes, I agree to the terms of use" when they installed the game? Yes
Do the terms of use say something to the effect of "we can ban you for modifying game files"? Yes
Did these people modify game files? Yes
So where is the problem?
[D] Blizzard Banning for Single Player Cheats - Page 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS |
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
Did they click "Yes, I agree to the terms of use" when they installed the game? Yes Do the terms of use say something to the effect of "we can ban you for modifying game files"? Yes Did these people modify game files? Yes So where is the problem? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:38 floor exercise wrote: People should be allowed to do whatever they want with the game so long as it does not affect others. And no, achievements mean absolutely nothing. If you think they are have an effect on multiplayer you are dumb. Cheating online = bad. Cheating on your own = why should I care? I know why Blizzard cares, money. The problem being allowing hacked exe files and such into their online environment that spans all their games. You are feel to cheat if you play the game offline, which you can. | ||
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ironchef
Canada1350 Posts
Also, even if you think achievements are dumb/useless, it is a part of the experience blizzard is creating-- they are right to defend it. The defense that it isn't directly hurting people and therefore OK, isnt really right. Exaggerated example: wow raiding. These "external games" like achievements, bragging rights etc are part of the experience they're selling. It might not be for us, but some do people care. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:28 Half wrote: So you're essentially arguing that people who purchase digital products are entitled to absolutely no consumer rights and protections? Clauses of the ToS like prohibiting multiplayer exploitation have legal basis. They interfere with the operations of company owned servers, and could, technically, be prosecuted as the distribution of malware. There is no legal legislation that prohibits consumers from modifying the code of there product, so long as no reverse engineering of encrypted information is involved. No that is not at all what I am arguing, you can modify your client fine, and you can go ahead and play offline with your modified client and you will not get banned. When you login to Battle.net this changes, you are logging into a service Blizzard provides for you. There are terms to using this service, part of it is a unmodified client. If you want to modify your client, by all means you can go ahead and mod the game completely and play it offline or on your own service. You are using a modified client with trailers to login to Blizzards Battle.net servers. Clearly breaking their ToS for said service. Furthermore you are now cheating the service to get achievements you did not actually earn. A ban is a legitimate response for Blizzard here. | ||
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tacrats
476 Posts
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DanceDance
226 Posts
An alternative approach by Blizzard could have been to reset the single player achievements of those found cheating in single player. I think this would have been much better than banning people. That is a bit drastic if you ask me. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:39 Sentenal wrote: Did they click "Yes, I agree to the terms of use" when they installed the game? Yes Do the terms of use say something to the effect of "we can ban you for modifying game files"? Yes Did these people modify game files? Yes So where is the problem? The problem is that a company doesn't possess the right to repossess the end consumers of a product on the grounds of technicality. And yes, I'm aware that product was a service. So are a variety of things. Hotels are a service, yet if I were kicked out a hotel for a reason that was deemed "arbitrary", the hotel would face legal repercussions. No that is not at all what I am arguing, you can modify your client fine, and you can go ahead and play offline with your modified client and you will not get banned. When you login to Battle.net this changes, you are logging into a service Blizzard provides for you. There are terms to using this service, part of it is a unmodified client. If you want to modify your client, by all means you can go ahead and mod the game completely and play it offline or on your own service. You are using a modified client with trailers to login to Blizzards Battle.net servers. Clearly breaking their ToS for said service. Furthermore you are now cheating the service to get achievements you did not actually earn. A ban is a legitimate response for Blizzard here. First of all, there is no distinction between Starcraft 2 as a product and Starcraft 2 as a service, the way it has been marketed and sold. A person banned from B-net cannot access Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 is a service. Similar any variety of services. Indeed, most services maintain the right to physical kick you out if you're behaving in a way that detriments other consumers, or the ability of the company to function. However, they cannot arbitrarily kick you out, even if that arbitrary reason was outlined on the TOS. | ||
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holy_war
United States3590 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:43 Half wrote: The problem is that a company doesn't possess the right to repossess the end consumers of a product on the grounds of technicality. And yes, I'm aware that product was a service. So are a variety of things. Hotels are a service, yet if I were kicked out a hotel for a reason that was deemed "arbitrary", the hotel would face legal repercussions. First of all, there is no distinction between Starcraft 2 as a product and Starcraft 2 as a service, the way it has been marketed and sold. A person banned from B-net cannot access Starcraft 2. Starcraft 2 is a service. Similar any variety of services. Indeed, most services maintain the right to physical kick you out if you're behaving in a way that detriments other consumers, or the ability of the company to function. However, they cannot arbitrarily kick you out, even if that arbitrary reason was outlined on the TOS Yes, but Blizzards reasoning is not arbitrary, its very clear and can be mapped out. What is your point? Guy if a reason for a ban is outlined in the ToS, it is by definition not arbitrary. You are trying to delve into the topicethics here. But this is not similar to unlocking an iPhone. When you unlock an iPhone other iPhone users do not suffer. When you cheat to get achievements you are taking away the work and value of other peoples achievements. While I personally think it is silly to care about such things, there exist people who care about such things. What do you want Blizzard to do? Tell them to go fuck themselves for caring about something different than the average player? | ||
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Licmyobelisk
Philippines3682 Posts
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Sentenal
United States12398 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:43 Half wrote: The problem is that a company doesn't possess the right to repossess the end consumers of a product on the grounds of technicality. And yes, I'm aware that product was a service. So are a variety of things. Hotels are a service, yet if I were kicked out a hotel for a reason that was deemed "arbitrary", the hotel would face legal repercussions. So consumers possess the right to lie when they agreeing to the terms of use, but companies don't possess the right to enforce the terms of use the consumer agreed to when the consumer violated the agreement? | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:45 Licmyobelisk wrote: Conspiracy Theory = Get Banned to re-buy the game. Anyway, really absurd of blizzard.. but what's in the EULA we must follow or else.... it's a 14 day ban | ||
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Cade)Flayer
United Kingdom279 Posts
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Half
United States2554 Posts
Not all of them were. So consumers possess the right to lie when they agreeing to the terms of use, but companies don't possess the right to enforce the terms of use the consumer agreed to when the consumer violated the agreement? Only if they violated a stipulation that could be deemed legitimate. | ||
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Deletatron
United States22 Posts
Its not that Blizzard is giving you less control (legally) over the game then other companies, its just they are actually doing something when you break the EULA. | ||
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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tacrats
476 Posts
On October 12 2010 04:45 Licmyobelisk wrote: Conspiracy Theory = Get Banned to re-buy the game. Anyway, really absurd of blizzard.. but what's in the EULA we must follow or else.... its not absurd. it happens all the time when people exploit achievement systems on xbox games too. sure i hate blizzard too, but pointing the finger at them for this is stupid and shortsighted. You think they care about an extra 5k units sold? please. | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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