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[Campaign] All-in Brutal

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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krell
Profile Joined July 2010
United States109 Posts
July 30 2010 15:50 GMT
#1
Hello everyone,

I've made it this far in the campaign on Brutal. However I'm finding myself completely overwhelmed at 66% roughly. I chose to fight the flyers and can do ok until kerrigan shows up. Does anyone have a winning unit combination / Defense layout that can save me ?

Thanks!
"you've got to change the world and use this time to be heard"
Papvin
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark610 Posts
July 30 2010 15:52 GMT
#2
Post this in single player forum.
"It's criminally negligent to dismiss Rock's contributions to other people's careers", Dukethegold
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
July 30 2010 15:54 GMT
#3
moved honk
Moderator<:3-/-<
feather6
Profile Joined February 2010
48 Posts
July 30 2010 16:01 GMT
#4
There are many topics on this already. One of them is even on the first page of the forum : |

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139494
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139841
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139222

The summary is 'lol mass vikings, a couple tanks and bc's for kerrigan'. If you're like me and you have 0 viking upgrades, especially splash, and no friendly-fire reduction upgrade for tank, and no splash upgrade for turret, and no mercenary tanks... you're going to want to kill yourself.
Glacierz
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 16:02:39
July 30 2010 16:02 GMT
#5
On July 31 2010 01:01 feather6 wrote:
There are many topics on this already. One of them is even on the first page of the forum : |

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139494
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139841
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139222

The summary is 'lol mass vikings, a couple tanks and bc's for kerrigan'. If you're like me and you have 0 viking upgrades, especially splash, and no friendly-fire reduction upgrade for tank, and no splash upgrade for turret, and no mercenary tanks... you're going to want to kill yourself.


lol what did you spend all those credit on???

Most people that succeeded chose to fight nydus... It is possible to win vs air without wasting too much time on S/L if you don't care about the only using nova blast once achievement, read the other posts.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 16:14:12
July 30 2010 16:12 GMT
#6
i upped my % from 40ish to 90ish by simply walling in with engineering bays(and mass siege tanks).
There is just something about engineering bay size that allows to wall in most effectively. I tried every other building(except for planetary which i dont have- i.d imagine id finish it easily if only i didnt get that stupid flame turret i never used:X) and they all proved to be less effective then ebay.

Yea and those threads are filled with people who did it on sub-brutal difficulty(and some i suspect on sub-hard), so it doesnt help much.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 30 2010 16:15 GMT
#7
For those who removed nydus in the last choice mission:
Did you get the orange nydus popping all over the map?
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
skyR
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada13817 Posts
July 30 2010 16:17 GMT
#8
If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions.
Casta
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark234 Posts
July 30 2010 16:19 GMT
#9
Having about the same problem as you. My max is about 70%. I have wraith and bc upgrades, but sadly no aoe vikings :/

My most succesful tactic so far is:

4-5 Bunkers with marines at each choke and try to block as much as your wallet allows. I don't know this to be true, but based on my experience i find that marines deal damage the fastest vs kerrigan.

Mass Thors at the artifact, they seem to own the packs of mutalisk decent enough. Use their special ability vs Kerrigan, the damage is useless but she will get stunned.

Make a pack of Wraiths to kill the air coming from behind and to deal with stray broodlords. At about 60% like 6-7 broodlords will gather at the east choke and it is very important to kill them very fast, even artifact if possible or else your defenses will be gone.

I upgrade infantry weapons and air weapons mostly. Because the bunkers/block is supposed to take the damage and the wraiths shouldn't take any damage. Vehicle weapons and armor is useful and should be upgraded later.

I still havn't managed to complete it but I feel like i'm making progress at least.

Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 30 2010 16:28 GMT
#10
On July 31 2010 01:17 skyR wrote:
If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions.

have you tried it both ways? It really seems like dealing with broodlords would be a lot easier then the orange nyduses
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
July 30 2010 16:38 GMT
#11
Marines are good vs kerrigan. Its weird but tanks seem to less dps than marines against her. Around 20 stim'd will take her out pretty quickly
krell
Profile Joined July 2010
United States109 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 16:43:41
July 30 2010 16:39 GMT
#12
Ugh, broodlords are awful. Basically the problem is that even though your bunkers hold, you cant look at all three attack points at once. So leave your one site alone for two seconds and two bunkers have been killed by broodlords. I have viking splash and it doesn't help AAAALL that much. I got to 80% right now. Btw anyone kill the leviathan? :p I'm debating loading up the save pre-choice and going back to kill the air instead of the nydus worms. Unfortunately I upgraded my thors cannon ability and I dont think it stuns anymore.. But marines + bunkers do seem the most effective.

Edit:

I've also been using specters to stun packs of mutas and brood lords. Very effective.
"you've got to change the world and use this time to be heard"
Kisra
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom466 Posts
July 30 2010 16:54 GMT
#13
All In with Nydus

Just throwing this up here like I have in the other threads. This is with Nydus, though - not sure how to handle air.
:D
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
July 30 2010 17:02 GMT
#14
On July 31 2010 01:28 Sfydjklm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 31 2010 01:17 skyR wrote:
If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions.

have you tried it both ways? It really seems like dealing with broodlords would be a lot easier then the orange nyduses


Easy to say that without trying it. =P
There might be 12+ brodlords attacking from 4 different sides and it means you basically can't have any tanks because unless you are really fast and catch them all with vikings you're going to lose buildings to tank friendly fire unless you get the -75% splash damage ting.
Massing tanks with mnm to clean up nydus is probably easier tbh. I'd like to be able to try both ways.
nickkarma
Profile Joined July 2010
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 21:41:41
July 30 2010 21:35 GMT
#15
Note: this is long and detailed notes for the flyer version of All In on Brutal. Skip it if you don't want quite a bit of the strategy spoiled.

+ Show Spoiler +
I finally beat this on Brutal with the air still up (i took out the nydus in the previous mission). It took me many, many iterations and changes in strategy. I tried walling with command centers (no PF's unfortunately), walling with bunkers, massing tanks + vikings, using thor drops on kerrigan, massing ghosts to use the laser lash, massing battlecruisers + vikings, etc.

Overall to beat this you need fairly decent macro. You have to be on top of your upgrades as they are huge as well as ensure you have builders constantly setting up extra defenses, repairing defenses, replenishing SCV's on your two fronts. On top of that you have to have quick reactions / know when and where broodlords are going to hit so your vikings can take them out before they fuck up your front line.

Anyways here's an overview of what I did. Here's screenshots of my base setup, loaded from the auto-save on the kill:
http://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-top.jpg
http://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-platform.jpg
http://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-bottom.jpg
http://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-main.jpg

- Started out, immediately started my air damage upgrade and built another armory, built a command center near top and bottom to bring in extra cash & replenish SCV's to my line quicker (you can see them in platform and bottom pics).

- I use a lot of the flame thrower towers, I've found these are really amazing on this level for a couple reasons. Broodlords do not attack them unless they are killing things at the time. They shit on zerglings and hydras so hard everything instantly melts. If you're bad like me and occasionally miss brood lords and they kill all your bunkers these things will still kill all the ground for a good amount of time. I still think I would prefer planetary fortress however.

- I only have 2 bunkers on each side, they are mostly to cover mutas and a bit of extra damage on ground, the flame throwers generally kill everything.

- 1-2 of the defensive slow tower on each side from the top tier zerg tech (these things are amazing)

- I have 3-4 scv's in the front lines on each side at all times with 3-4 sitting back behind the tanks ready to run in and take over if the 3 in front die which happens fairly often.

- Only 4-5 tanks on each side, flame throwers take care of most of it but it does occasionally get hectec and they help out a lot.

- I got the Merc battlecruiser and have him sitting on the artifact slightly in front of the vikings that also hover around there. He tanks the damage from all the air that comes up the middle where as vikings just die over and over if they are out in front for the air waves. 2-3 science vessels to keep everything full health.

- I have 4-5 vikings at bottom near my tanks and also 4-5 at the top right platform. These are purely to kill broodlords and I never move them away from here except to kill the leviathan. I also put 4 vikings in the lava area behind the mineral line, those 4 vikings will take out everything that comes from the back with no problems. With regenerative mech units they heal almost to full between waves, just move the lower health ones behind the high ones occasionally. I then have 6-10 vikings sitting on the platform near the end. So much air comes that it's really needed.

- I have a squad of ~30 marines sitting in base for kerrigan. You do not need to upgrade any into infantry since she 1 shots them and reduces all damage taken to like 3 or something anyways. When she comes I run the marines out, stim and blast on her. She dies in like 5 seconds with that many marines. When she gets her storm ability throw a few medics in with them, they can survive the storm with it and they will kill her before a second storm lands.

- For Leviathan (he comes @69%) you should be at least 3/2 air upgrades when he hits. You should also be getting vehicle damage as well (vehicle armor isn't needed). Just pull ALL of your vikings, you should have ~15-20 around this time to be safe. just zerg them all at him ignoring anything else unless it's a large pack of mutas. If you leave him around too long all the air units he spawns screws up your front lines really badly. Use artifact if you have to however I prefer saving it for the next kerrigan wave.

- The kerrigan at 80% is the make or break point which is why I save the artifact for this. She spawns with a bunch of brood lords that also come to the top side. So I use it here and then it's back up again at ~93-95% which is when you need to use it again.

- After kerrigan dies I just pulled all my scv's off the minerals and threw them into the defense areas to quickly get them back up and repair. I spammed more flame turrets up top around the platform because they start sending a lot of little drop pods there as well as all the air and they can kill it if your battlecruiser is attacking an air unit.

Here's also some % notes I made that helped when it wasn't more backhand knowledge so you know when brood lords are coming:

10% - First time a larger ground force hits bottom, either use artifact or make sure to have flame turrets / something more than what you start with there.

13% - Wave similar to 10% but this time on top. Same things apply here, use artifact or have more shit there than what you spawn with.

17% - First flyer wave from front - You can purchase the merc vikings now to deal with these easily.

25% - Another flying wave from the front and also 1 brood lord comes to the top.

... - I didn't write anything down between here at 50%...

50% - Large wave of broodlords attacks top. I believe 5-6 of them, kill them quick or your top lane gets hammered.

56% - 3 brood lords attack bottom, then like 20 seconds later 3 more come so don't pull vikings away too quickly.

60% - Kerrigan comes and now has the AoE storm ability

69% - The flying Leviathan comes, zerg him down with all your vikings. Try to spread your vikings out as he has this aoe snare / stun he casts and if he hits a lot of them it drastically increases time to kill him. After he is dead make sure you send and keep 4 vikings in the back behind minerals, 4-5 top and bottom lanes, then 6-8 on platform. Here on out it's all about picking off broodlords quickly since it's too chaotic to know when they all spawn.

80% - Kerrigan comes again, several brood lords spawn top side and will get there about the same time she does or very shortly after. Artifact charge here is essential if she spawns top side otherwise it is a nightmare.

85-100% - Constant flyer waves, constant ground, and drop pods going onto the artifact platform. Pull all your SCV's and just spam defenses anywhere there's slots. Save artifact use until at least ~93%.

Hope this helps, this was definitely an extremely challenging mission for me and was a lot of fun despite the many hours and frustrations it held.
feather6
Profile Joined February 2010
48 Posts
July 30 2010 22:25 GMT
#16
Great post, nick. Thanks!
nickkarma
Profile Joined July 2010
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 23:02:02
July 30 2010 23:00 GMT
#17
One more thing I forgot to mention. If you don't get a good start then just start over again. Don't try to make a bad start work as you just fall behind and it becomes even harder. Get a really good start then save that. Make your own saves in between Kerrigan spawns as well if you feel you performed really well that time.

If you have to, then take this mission 10% at a time. Start the mission, get all the starting things up and upgrades going. Did you do it really well? If yes then save, if no restart right then. Once you have a good save keep going back to it and then build up to another good save point that's like 8-15% past your previous. The first 60% or so requires strong macro which a lot of us probably aren't capable of doing every time so it helps to repeat the same step a couple times quickly in a row to get a really good save.
SC2Phoenix
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2814 Posts
July 30 2010 23:03 GMT
#18
Just make 5 bunkers and 4-5 tanks and each choke and none stop make battlecruiser and mass repair on your walls. Yamato the broodlords and when kerrigan comes out i just chain stun her with 3 thors while you yamato her etc. You can keep her stunned for like 15 seconds with 3 thors :D
Who the fuck has a family of fucking trees? This song is so god damn stupid. Fuck you song, fuck you and your stupid trees. -itmeJP
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 31 2010 00:50 GMT
#19
can we just use one of the fifty threads already up and let this oen die / lock it?
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
July 31 2010 01:02 GMT
#20
A few (3) bunkers with SCVs on hand to repair (with the 2x repair speed upgrade) at each entrance, plus 5 or so tanks will take care of any ground assaults. If there are mutas / broodlords, make 3-4 squads of vikings and spread them out so you can take care of broodlord threats on different locations simultaneously (one squad on your mineral line, one squad on each entrance, and possibly one more squad with the artifact).

With this composition, I got through the stage in Hard without using the artifact even once. The only times I had rough patches were when Kerrigan attacked- she managed to take out a couple of bunkers each time.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
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