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Hello everyone,
I've made it this far in the campaign on Brutal. However I'm finding myself completely overwhelmed at 66% roughly. I chose to fight the flyers and can do ok until kerrigan shows up. Does anyone have a winning unit combination / Defense layout that can save me ?
Thanks!
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Post this in single player forum.
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is awesome32277 Posts
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lol what did you spend all those credit on???
Most people that succeeded chose to fight nydus... It is possible to win vs air without wasting too much time on S/L if you don't care about the only using nova blast once achievement, read the other posts.
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i upped my % from 40ish to 90ish by simply walling in with engineering bays(and mass siege tanks). There is just something about engineering bay size that allows to wall in most effectively. I tried every other building(except for planetary which i dont have- i.d imagine id finish it easily if only i didnt get that stupid flame turret i never used:X) and they all proved to be less effective then ebay.
Yea and those threads are filled with people who did it on sub-brutal difficulty(and some i suspect on sub-hard), so it doesnt help much.
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For those who removed nydus in the last choice mission: Did you get the orange nydus popping all over the map?
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If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions.
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Having about the same problem as you. My max is about 70%. I have wraith and bc upgrades, but sadly no aoe vikings :/
My most succesful tactic so far is:
4-5 Bunkers with marines at each choke and try to block as much as your wallet allows. I don't know this to be true, but based on my experience i find that marines deal damage the fastest vs kerrigan.
Mass Thors at the artifact, they seem to own the packs of mutalisk decent enough. Use their special ability vs Kerrigan, the damage is useless but she will get stunned.
Make a pack of Wraiths to kill the air coming from behind and to deal with stray broodlords. At about 60% like 6-7 broodlords will gather at the east choke and it is very important to kill them very fast, even artifact if possible or else your defenses will be gone.
I upgrade infantry weapons and air weapons mostly. Because the bunkers/block is supposed to take the damage and the wraiths shouldn't take any damage. Vehicle weapons and armor is useful and should be upgraded later.
I still havn't managed to complete it but I feel like i'm making progress at least.
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On July 31 2010 01:17 skyR wrote: If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions. have you tried it both ways? It really seems like dealing with broodlords would be a lot easier then the orange nyduses
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Marines are good vs kerrigan. Its weird but tanks seem to less dps than marines against her. Around 20 stim'd will take her out pretty quickly
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Ugh, broodlords are awful. Basically the problem is that even though your bunkers hold, you cant look at all three attack points at once. So leave your one site alone for two seconds and two bunkers have been killed by broodlords. I have viking splash and it doesn't help AAAALL that much. I got to 80% right now. Btw anyone kill the leviathan? :p I'm debating loading up the save pre-choice and going back to kill the air instead of the nydus worms. Unfortunately I upgraded my thors cannon ability and I dont think it stuns anymore.. But marines + bunkers do seem the most effective.
Edit:
I've also been using specters to stun packs of mutas and brood lords. Very effective.
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All In with Nydus
Just throwing this up here like I have in the other threads. This is with Nydus, though - not sure how to handle air.
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On July 31 2010 01:28 Sfydjklm wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 01:17 skyR wrote: If you remove the nydus, you don't have any nydus popping up but zerglings and hydras still come occasionally. It's a lot easier to deal with nydus than it is with broodlords from 5 directions. have you tried it both ways? It really seems like dealing with broodlords would be a lot easier then the orange nyduses
Easy to say that without trying it. =P There might be 12+ brodlords attacking from 4 different sides and it means you basically can't have any tanks because unless you are really fast and catch them all with vikings you're going to lose buildings to tank friendly fire unless you get the -75% splash damage ting. Massing tanks with mnm to clean up nydus is probably easier tbh. I'd like to be able to try both ways.
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Note: this is long and detailed notes for the flyer version of All In on Brutal. Skip it if you don't want quite a bit of the strategy spoiled.
+ Show Spoiler +I finally beat this on Brutal with the air still up (i took out the nydus in the previous mission). It took me many, many iterations and changes in strategy. I tried walling with command centers (no PF's unfortunately), walling with bunkers, massing tanks + vikings, using thor drops on kerrigan, massing ghosts to use the laser lash, massing battlecruisers + vikings, etc. Overall to beat this you need fairly decent macro. You have to be on top of your upgrades as they are huge as well as ensure you have builders constantly setting up extra defenses, repairing defenses, replenishing SCV's on your two fronts. On top of that you have to have quick reactions / know when and where broodlords are going to hit so your vikings can take them out before they fuck up your front line. Anyways here's an overview of what I did. Here's screenshots of my base setup, loaded from the auto-save on the kill: http://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-top.jpghttp://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-platform.jpghttp://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-bottom.jpghttp://nkraemer.com/sc/all_in-main.jpg- Started out, immediately started my air damage upgrade and built another armory, built a command center near top and bottom to bring in extra cash & replenish SCV's to my line quicker (you can see them in platform and bottom pics). - I use a lot of the flame thrower towers, I've found these are really amazing on this level for a couple reasons. Broodlords do not attack them unless they are killing things at the time. They shit on zerglings and hydras so hard everything instantly melts. If you're bad like me and occasionally miss brood lords and they kill all your bunkers these things will still kill all the ground for a good amount of time. I still think I would prefer planetary fortress however. - I only have 2 bunkers on each side, they are mostly to cover mutas and a bit of extra damage on ground, the flame throwers generally kill everything. - 1-2 of the defensive slow tower on each side from the top tier zerg tech (these things are amazing) - I have 3-4 scv's in the front lines on each side at all times with 3-4 sitting back behind the tanks ready to run in and take over if the 3 in front die which happens fairly often. - Only 4-5 tanks on each side, flame throwers take care of most of it but it does occasionally get hectec and they help out a lot. - I got the Merc battlecruiser and have him sitting on the artifact slightly in front of the vikings that also hover around there. He tanks the damage from all the air that comes up the middle where as vikings just die over and over if they are out in front for the air waves. 2-3 science vessels to keep everything full health. - I have 4-5 vikings at bottom near my tanks and also 4-5 at the top right platform. These are purely to kill broodlords and I never move them away from here except to kill the leviathan. I also put 4 vikings in the lava area behind the mineral line, those 4 vikings will take out everything that comes from the back with no problems. With regenerative mech units they heal almost to full between waves, just move the lower health ones behind the high ones occasionally. I then have 6-10 vikings sitting on the platform near the end. So much air comes that it's really needed. - I have a squad of ~30 marines sitting in base for kerrigan. You do not need to upgrade any into infantry since she 1 shots them and reduces all damage taken to like 3 or something anyways. When she comes I run the marines out, stim and blast on her. She dies in like 5 seconds with that many marines. When she gets her storm ability throw a few medics in with them, they can survive the storm with it and they will kill her before a second storm lands. - For Leviathan (he comes @69%) you should be at least 3/2 air upgrades when he hits. You should also be getting vehicle damage as well (vehicle armor isn't needed). Just pull ALL of your vikings, you should have ~15-20 around this time to be safe. just zerg them all at him ignoring anything else unless it's a large pack of mutas. If you leave him around too long all the air units he spawns screws up your front lines really badly. Use artifact if you have to however I prefer saving it for the next kerrigan wave. - The kerrigan at 80% is the make or break point which is why I save the artifact for this. She spawns with a bunch of brood lords that also come to the top side. So I use it here and then it's back up again at ~93-95% which is when you need to use it again. - After kerrigan dies I just pulled all my scv's off the minerals and threw them into the defense areas to quickly get them back up and repair. I spammed more flame turrets up top around the platform because they start sending a lot of little drop pods there as well as all the air and they can kill it if your battlecruiser is attacking an air unit. Here's also some % notes I made that helped when it wasn't more backhand knowledge so you know when brood lords are coming: 10% - First time a larger ground force hits bottom, either use artifact or make sure to have flame turrets / something more than what you start with there. 13% - Wave similar to 10% but this time on top. Same things apply here, use artifact or have more shit there than what you spawn with. 17% - First flyer wave from front - You can purchase the merc vikings now to deal with these easily. 25% - Another flying wave from the front and also 1 brood lord comes to the top. ... - I didn't write anything down between here at 50%... 50% - Large wave of broodlords attacks top. I believe 5-6 of them, kill them quick or your top lane gets hammered. 56% - 3 brood lords attack bottom, then like 20 seconds later 3 more come so don't pull vikings away too quickly. 60% - Kerrigan comes and now has the AoE storm ability 69% - The flying Leviathan comes, zerg him down with all your vikings. Try to spread your vikings out as he has this aoe snare / stun he casts and if he hits a lot of them it drastically increases time to kill him. After he is dead make sure you send and keep 4 vikings in the back behind minerals, 4-5 top and bottom lanes, then 6-8 on platform. Here on out it's all about picking off broodlords quickly since it's too chaotic to know when they all spawn. 80% - Kerrigan comes again, several brood lords spawn top side and will get there about the same time she does or very shortly after. Artifact charge here is essential if she spawns top side otherwise it is a nightmare. 85-100% - Constant flyer waves, constant ground, and drop pods going onto the artifact platform. Pull all your SCV's and just spam defenses anywhere there's slots. Save artifact use until at least ~93%. Hope this helps, this was definitely an extremely challenging mission for me and was a lot of fun despite the many hours and frustrations it held.
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Great post, nick. Thanks!
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One more thing I forgot to mention. If you don't get a good start then just start over again. Don't try to make a bad start work as you just fall behind and it becomes even harder. Get a really good start then save that. Make your own saves in between Kerrigan spawns as well if you feel you performed really well that time.
If you have to, then take this mission 10% at a time. Start the mission, get all the starting things up and upgrades going. Did you do it really well? If yes then save, if no restart right then. Once you have a good save keep going back to it and then build up to another good save point that's like 8-15% past your previous. The first 60% or so requires strong macro which a lot of us probably aren't capable of doing every time so it helps to repeat the same step a couple times quickly in a row to get a really good save.
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Just make 5 bunkers and 4-5 tanks and each choke and none stop make battlecruiser and mass repair on your walls. Yamato the broodlords and when kerrigan comes out i just chain stun her with 3 thors while you yamato her etc. You can keep her stunned for like 15 seconds with 3 thors :D
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can we just use one of the fifty threads already up and let this oen die / lock it?
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A few (3) bunkers with SCVs on hand to repair (with the 2x repair speed upgrade) at each entrance, plus 5 or so tanks will take care of any ground assaults. If there are mutas / broodlords, make 3-4 squads of vikings and spread them out so you can take care of broodlord threats on different locations simultaneously (one squad on your mineral line, one squad on each entrance, and possibly one more squad with the artifact).
With this composition, I got through the stage in Hard without using the artifact even once. The only times I had rough patches were when Kerrigan attacked- she managed to take out a couple of bunkers each time.
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I just did it fighting air... took me about an hour and a half. Had to restart once because I realized my comp was wrong.
I did not use the chokes. I let the outside of my base fall, rebuilt the depots as a wall in the center and consolidated my tank lines to a clump just behind the artifact platform. I had turrent AOE (mandatory) and viking AOE (mandatory) in this mission. I pumped tanks at first, getting the merc tanks for a total of about 10-12. I then pumped vikings and marines with a few medics. I turreted whenever I could but honestly muta pressure after 70% prevented my from throwing down more than 20% turrents succesfully. I also built a couple of thors to stand by the artifact and tank.
The most cost efficient way to kill kerrigan (didn't think of stun) for me was to use upgraded stimmed marines. A big ball can run in, dodge hte storm and gib her before she can do any serious damage.
The waves that come from the back arn't serious (1 or 2 broodlords and 4 or 5 mutas, eaisly dealt with by 3 vikings and a turrent) until about 90% where 6 broodlords come in. But by that time who cares about the CC. Just keep pumping marines and vikings. Marines and vikings. Replace tanks that die.
To be fair I only beat the mission with 500HP left on my artifact (I actually had to reboot a save where I lost it with 99.9% complete because I blew the nova too early). However, I think that you really don't need the choke if you have the tank upgrades. All the choke did for me was increase the distance my vikings had to run, which ended up being deadly.
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Bio balls are extremely strong vs kerrigan. The problem is just getting a good arc before she gets there so storm doesn't lolwreck you. Outside of the ultra+baneling combos, bio is really damn strong until the very end.
I've done a few strats (best 94%)... engy wall w/ tank/viking or tank/thor/viking both worked till about 80%, then overrun by broodlords. Straight bio balls on each side with bc/viking/sci vessel in middle worked best and got to the 94%. I'm considering trying to pull back to Kerrigan #3 and get a mass of tanks in middle of base below cliff for the end so it'll be easier to deal with the ground waves. I don't have viking upgrades or the slow turret, which is making life rough. Either way, I feel the trick is bio balls on each side for the first half to two-thirds, then working in some heavy hitters to balance out the composition.
For the back of the base, 2 aoe turrets + 1 bunker and 4 rines and 2 vikings w/ 1-2 scvs idle to repair takes care of basically every wave.
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I've played both the version with air and the version with nydus on brutal and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the nydus version is MUCH easier then the air version. I tried all day to finish the air version and failed, restarted and tried it with nydus and practically 1-shot it. The difference in difficulty is astounding.
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I took out the air support but kept the nydus worms. My defense consisted of 3 bunkers on each side, leaving a 1x1 space in between them, 2 phase disruptors on each side (1 on the hill on each side and one at the extremity (max left and max right). A tank and a scv at each phase disruptor, about 4-6 tanks behind the bunkers (i did not have the friendly fire reduce upgrade), and 2-4 scvs near the bunkers and tanks with a few medics sitting about.
Also as many thors and banshees i could afford, banshees to hunt nydus worms and to focus down kerrigan as my thors perma stun her and my tanks shell away at her. Around 95% I started getting overwhelmed so i said fuck the nydus snipe and brough my banshees back to help defend.
(i had the thor immortality up aswell, so even if they die and i dont have gas to revive them, they make a good distraction) So with all my extra cash i started pumping vultures near the artifact and kept taking out any nydus that would spawn there and spam mines all over the hill. When I hit 100%, kerrigan was barely making her way up.
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I did this by completely walling off the chokes with bunkers, had a large pack of vikings flying around made a bunch of missle turrets everywhere and had 4-5 battle cruisers for the leviathan, went down pretty fast. also i made a few bunkers surrrounding the crystal because at the end I got broken with like 96% and it let it finish before they could attack it.
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United States12240 Posts
On August 02 2010 08:22 Robonord wrote: I've played both the version with air and the version with nydus on brutal and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the nydus version is MUCH easier then the air version. I tried all day to finish the air version and failed, restarted and tried it with nydus and practically 1-shot it. The difference in difficulty is astounding.
I'm noticing that many, many more people who have completed this mission have done so by choosing the Nydus version. I'd like to switch to that version to compare difficulty, but when I return to the base I can't select. How did you switch to the Nydus version? I don't want to have to load a save from before I did mission 28 =[
EDIT: Beat the air version. Had to spend all 600k credits I had stockpiled on things like the Thor AoE, the Missile Turret upgrades, the building self-repair upgrade, and I think I got the Goliath double-attack upgrade but never built one. Tanks, Thors, and a handful of Vikings won it for me but it was really close.
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This is how you beat the last mission without trying:
![[image loading]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1605/allin.png)
Siege tanks are OP vs all zerg troops, they will tear them apart before they can step within 10 feet of your tanks. Marines are OP vs Kerrigan. The small ball I have kills kerrigan in about 2 seconds.
Only requirement is that you should have the +40 siege tank damage. Stim, reduced siege tank damage, and orbital command also help. I didn't have orbital command.
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@Charman Ray, was that in brutal? :o what tec did u get?
EDIT: i just tried the tank tactic, it worked at the second try :DDDDDDDDDDDDD thank you chairman ray, u just made my day!!!! All u should try it, it is defenitly the easiest way evarrrrr
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On July 31 2010 01:54 Kisra wrote:All In with NydusJust throwing this up here like I have in the other threads. This is with Nydus, though - not sure how to handle air.
Thanks, I'll give this a try. I don't have the banshee splash, but doesn't look too important.
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On August 02 2010 12:05 Chairman Ray wrote:This is how you beat the last mission without trying: ![[image loading]](http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1605/allin.png) Siege tanks are OP vs all zerg troops, they will tear them apart before they can step within 10 feet of your tanks. Marines are OP vs Kerrigan. The small ball I have kills kerrigan in about 2 seconds. Only requirement is that you should have the +40 siege tank damage. Stim, reduced siege tank damage, and orbital command also help. I didn't have orbital command.
Did this mean you didn't bother banshee-ing the canals, and just sat waiting for Kerrigan to bio her?
Also, any tips on how many SCVs I should stop at, I think I end up making too many, just churn them out... (spot the noob I know). I have the auto-refinery if that helps, so just needed for minerals really.
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On August 02 2010 08:22 Robonord wrote: I've played both the version with air and the version with nydus on brutal and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that the nydus version is MUCH easier then the air version. I tried all day to finish the air version and failed, restarted and tried it with nydus and practically 1-shot it. The difference in difficulty is astounding.
Well, that general did tell you that taking out the air was better strategically... if you listened to dumbass Tychus then that's what you get.
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do you have hive mind emulators? spam them like mad and they make all in vs air a total joke
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Beat air-version of the All-in mission on brutal difficulty. Was a semi-speed campaign run so didn't have many upgrades. Only had viking (a must for the air-version), tank, and marauder upgrades. Did not have science vessel and did not bother to use zerg psi research. Only tech reactor research is essential, in my opinion. Used the artifact once around the 85% mark overlord drop because I couldn't keep track of everything.
I don't have a replay or any screencaps though because I had to restart my campaign to unlock all the missions for my Kerrigan icon.
Here was my strategy: + Show Spoiler +I made a barracks wall with four bunkers and 10-15 tanks at each choke; each side also had 8-10 SCVs on auto-repair patrol. Had 4-6 battlecruisers and mass turrets on the high ground; 4-6 SCVs on auto-repair patrol were parked here as well. Had 30-50 vikings on patrol or in control groups.
The key to this strategy lies in the fact that Kerrigan's AI is pretty stupid and WILL NOT ATTACK A BUILDING WALL if there are units nearby! Therefore, place your tanks forward enough to kill hydras but far back enough to be out of Kerrigan's attack range. Maelstorm will not one-shot tanks and her drop/kill ability will not burn through your tanks fast enough. Aside from Kerrigan, the ground forces on this mission will melt away quickly.
With a sturdy wall, you only need to maintain a healthy supply of SCVs (build a second command center if you must) and tanks. Your focus should be on finishing your upgrades: ground weapons, mechanical weapons, air weapons, and air plating. You will need good multi-tasking to kill broodlords and prevent them from ruining your wall but otherwise nothing will stop your vikings once you reach a critical mass. Furthermore, with enough turrets and some upgraded battlecruisers, you can even ignore the Leviathan and focus your attention on managing your vikings to kill air waves.
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Hi everyone, I spent 2 days failing all in against air on brutal. This was the number 1 post on the subject on a google search for "all in brutal starcraft 2" so after beating it tonight I wanted to share it here since i had a bit of an different aproach.
First off, the main problem atleast for me was keeping up with so much stuff going on at the same time, I tried tons of different walling in strats, I used planetary fortress sometimes and sometimes bunkers, mc towers sometimes and mass missile turrets sometimes, vikings, tanks and even banshes, at best it got me to around 85% if everything went smooth. In any case I needed to simplify it so here it goes.
Jo's super short strat for All in on brutal vs air for dummies (like myself) + Show Spoiler + -bioball on the sides (4 baracks, 2 engi bay, ~80% marine medics, 20% flame/marauder)
-mc towers at artifact ~6 fast then ~12 when you have time/cash, send mutas to the merc building to heal up while killing those drop pods and broodlords floating above each bioball, put up three extra mc towers at the botom for extra units when I had time.
-nova when kerrigan is close then send the bioball on that side to kill her combined with stimpack
-constantly replenish soldiers
-don't build bunkers/pf (I put up one pf on each side which kindof helped in the start but after that I didn't rebuild if it fell).
-When that class 10 flier comes you steal his spawns until kerrigan comes, then nova to hurt both and take it out with mutalisks (you should have an crazy amount of them by now).
The beauty of this strat ofcourse is that it's extremly robust and easy for old folks like myself who aren't that good with micro. The bio balls tank broodlords just fine for many minutes without requiring attention (I'm looking at you bunkers/pf) at which point you give an direct attack command to your marines or if that side is getting a bit weak/there's 5+ broods you send in the mutalisks. When you see an orange clump of fliers heading for the artifact you can mindcontrol them in peace knowing your sides won't instwipe. When kerrigan comes around you have the perfect army against her and straight access to her (again I'm looking at you bunkers/pf and also myself for not picking hercules). She dies very very fast this way, sometimes I would manage huge portions of a side to her cloud but enough usally survived until your 4 baracks reinforced them, also, you allways have that huge army of mutas to reinforce the sides with.
In summary: Bioball, focus your attention mainly on mc towers at the artifact and spamming out more marines/medics.
This got a bit long but I've read every post I could find trying to beat it and couldn't so thought I would elaborate
Finaly two last thoughts: 1. sending mutas to kill kerrigan will also work but I wanted to have an overwealming amount of them for the flier/emergencies 2. For people that don't have mc towers I'm pretty sure the bioball idea would still make sense and instead of microing mc towers you would micro vikings in the middle (with some science vessels and/or scv's). The idea that there's less to think about still aplies
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Chairman Rays strat is the best and easiest for Nydus. I didn't kill the worms at all but siege tanks with 2 PF's on either side of the artifact with about 10 scvs in the enclave repairing just brutalizes everything. Squad of about 40 medics/marines for Kerrigan, lost alot of them to Ultra's who came in as she did but I had tons of excess cash because I hardly lost tanks. I think the only time I lost tanks was to Kerrigans one shot. Use the 2 BC's you start with to patrol around your CC incase any zerglings get to your mins. I didn't have Raven/Sci vessel or Tech Reactor. Tech Reactor would make the start alot easier, I had to make 5 facts right away and it got a little close at the beginning, but once I got 5+ tanks it was smooth sailing.
Here's a pic to give you an idea of what things should look like. I only had to replace 1 or 2 tanks and a few marines every Kerrigan spawn, and my PF's didn't even get below 50% once.
![[image loading]](http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/5954/allin.jpg)
I initially tried walling the chokes but realized it was pointless quickly. Way easier to just defend the middle.
As for Air, I tried it twice and said fuck that. No point doing it, no achievement or anything. Unless you really wanna be able to say "I DID IT!"
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I found taking control of mutas and broodlords with MC towers was very effective
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