On August 04 2010 09:09 Aznleeman wrote: The ending really wasn't horrible at all. I mean, sure the depth of Kerrigan's development and change from QoB into human could've been better, and Tychus (one of the major characters) could have had a more satisfying end instead of just being shot off screen, but I think we're all just suffering from let-down syndrome. The campaign's game design was superb, and the ending wasn't bad, we just expected a lot more. Nonetheless, I hope the expansion will take fan response into consideration and make the ending more epic.
Well to me here's my thoughts on the ending...
Final 3 missions = omg epic. Just totally what the last 3 missions would be. I even liked the dialog on the final 3 missions (like Raynor's speech). Kerrigan's transformation = I don't have a problem with how this was portrayed, but I don't like that it happened. I liked Kerrigan for what she had become and I don't want to see it just get wiped away. One of the coolest parts of SC/BW was getting to play the bad guys in addition to the good guys. Tychus = A waste of time and space kinda. You knew his betrayal was coming all game (I knew it from the opening cinematic). To have it come in the last 1 minute seemed more like a formality than a good plot point.
Basically the only problem I have with the ending is what it means going forward (big evil hybrids must die, kerrigan is no longer a cool evil character, etc.) Taken alone the ending was incredibly epic and the assault on char is hands down one of the best sequences of missions in an RTS ever (I'd even call it the best outright).
Blizzard can easily win me back over. I'd really want the following though...
1. Something bad happens to Raynor and company at the start while still on Char. Like zerg have taken down the Dominion forces and everything goes to hell except that Kerrigan's control of swarm helps to save her. 2. The hybrid story arc comes to a conclusion in HotS and the Protoss campaign is about something else like a final confrontation with human-but-evil kerrigan or the Protoss' struggle to remain a race as a result of stuff that happens in HotS.
Personally, I was thrilled with Kerrigan's transformation. And if Blizzard goes back into its doom and gloom method of story telling and kills off Raynor or re-zergs her, I won't buy the expansions. I'm disgusted with their normal story telling.
As for the Queen of Blades thing....who says she still doesn't hold the title? Nothing anywhere says that the QoB has to be Zerg, after all.
I agree with everyone who said the ending was lame and that the entire storyline seemed cliche and weak. Things that the characters did was way out of character (like help out psychopaths like Tosh and kill protoss to steal artifacts for money?). I was really hoping to get more into Raynor vs. Dominion action but half the game we just kept killing those asshole Tal'darim.
Tychus could have been an okay character, but really? We only used him for 2 missions so we didn't really care when he bit the dust. Shouldn't we care about characters when they die? At the very least, they should have made Tychus out to be a good guy deep down or something to draw on our emotions. He was just an annoying asshole all game long, and not even a smart coniving one at that.
Kerrigan's behavior was also a huge dissapointment as others said. She was totally outplayed everywhere and seemed to be a stupid peon boss the whole game. They went to Char, homeworld of the zerg, and she was just like, 'well great, they brought me what I wanted!'. Great time to run into battle dear. Her voice acting was also pretty weak.
All in all, the missions were really fun, but the entire story and wtf ending was really weak. Everyone was acting out of character. Oh, they also showed us 95% of the cinematics already in their stupid trailers. Does no one else feel cheated by that?
How some of the plot holes and such could be explained. Blizzard will never do this though. Also, I haven't fully thought this through so there could still be gaping holes.
1. Dead Tassadar Ghost? Overmind is good? Hybrid threat can only be staved off by Kerrigan? A deception. Kerrigan orchestrated this, revealing herself to Zeratul. Note that the protoss prophecy does not name Kerrigan as a saviour or anything... only the Overmind's vision leads him to this belief. She wants Zeratul to believe that she is needed so that he can go to Jim Raynor... 2a. The existence of actual hybrids does not invalidate this. Remember, the best lie has a kernel of truth within it. Kerrigan may have discovered the existence of such hybrids and merely used it as part of her ploy.
2. Lame Duck Kerrigan? An easy invasion of Char? All part of the deception. She was able to read minds as a ghost, she's probably still able to read Jim's mind. She knew of the artifact and what it was capable of (or, she had her own minions within the Moebius corp). She wanted Jim to come 'save' her. Thus she allows him to establish a foothold while easily cleaning up everything else. She wasn't that incapacitated by the artifact. Had Jim intended to let her die, she probably would have had some well protected surviving units shred the marines around her.
3. Mengsk's dumb villainy. A lot time before the events of SC, Mengsk learns of a prophecy. He scoffs at such things, but recalls it. The prophecy basically states that Sarah Kerrigan will become his greatest asset and his greatest liability. So long as she lives, he will never achieve his goals. This is why he abandons her on Tarsonis, once he thinks he has achieved his goal. This is why he ignores Jim Raynor (an annoyance, but marginalized via his use of media), but sends Tychus to stick around and eliminate Kerrigan.
This resolves three/four annoyances about the plot and characterization, Kerrigan is still badass, everyone is happy.
anyone in here remember the small figure of kerrigan at the bottom of the "new" classic battle.net site which said: "Help me Jim Raynor, you're my only hope!". This was back in 2007 shortly before they revealed SC2 I think.
edit: It's still there: www.classic.battle.net. click that thing at the bottom and rest your mouse above it.
On July 28 2010 17:05 TheTuna wrote: Spoilers ahoy! It might be easier just to add spoilers to the title itself, as that's pretty much all this thread is gonna be. + Show Spoiler +
I feel like Kerrigan will still be controlling the zerg. I doubt she'll still be infested fully, as that would defeat the whole point of Wings of Liberty and make her go all bloodthirsty again. I think instead she'll be controlling the Zerg in her current state and bending them towards taking down Arcturus for vengeance and the Hybrids, who will undoubtedly become a much larger threat.
After all, if the campaign is anything like Wings of Liberty, she'll need other characters to interact with, and since the Cerebrates are all dead that falls to people like Raynor and Valerian. I predict that those two, at least, will play quite a large part in the Zerg campaign.
Pretty good theory. At the end she is not completely human. She still has those protoss-like dreads. The Overmind created her to have increased psionic ability than being human and for some purpose due to the hybrids in his vision. She would have to fully retain her increased psionic ability after going back to human or this whole plot point makes no sense.
I had some issues with the events, but my biggest beef is how cliched the execution was. It's like they focused on doing these cheesy moments rather than trying to tell a solid story, and developing characters. And often the cliched lines didnt even fit and came off forced.
The direct consequence is the lack of significant or memorable characters and moments. There's a couple, but the rest are pretty forgettable. It might be because some characters may or may not have died, depending on your choices, so they really felt like temporary filler characters. Remember what assholes Edmund Duke, or Aldaris were?
semi-related note: Was Tosh modeled after this guy? lol
Maybe it's nostalgia, or the fact that I was a kid and easier to impress when sc1/bw came out haha. I still remember most of the Tassadar speech and Dugalle's letter to his wife, down to intonations. Umm "Lets kick this revolution to overdrive"...? blech
That said, I'm glad they didnt kill Kerrigan off Yeah pretty sure she can still control the zerg. I was thinking partway through that they'd rip off their own Arthas plot, and make Valerian steal zerg control(King of blades?). Its not like they havent recycled and snowballed plots between SC and WC before hehe
On August 01 2010 16:47 Hats Hats Hats wrote: Okay, since a lot of people seem to think that Raynor screwed over the universe with his shenanigans, I'll explain Blizzard's angle here. They want you to think that the galaxy is screwed because of what he does, but it's the complete opposite. Zeratul's prophecy is carefully worded to be interpreted incorrectly. Actually,
If Raynor had not used the artifact on Kerrigan, the universe would be screwed. Allow me to explain. This explanation also covers why Kerrigan's still got head tentacles.
Zeratul knows "the xel'naga are returning," but he wonders if it's "to save...or to destroy?" We're supposed to assume that the latter is going to happen, but both of Zeratul's options are wrong. The xel'naga aren't going to return to save or destroy, they're going to save AND destroy.
What do we know about the xel'naga?
1. They have cyclical lifespans whereby two species, one with purity of form, the other with purity of essence, fuse over millions of years to create a superspecies with both purity of form and purity of essence. (The novels confirm this)
2. They created the Protoss and Zerg as one of their many candidate 'successor' xel'naga; if the P and Z fuse, they might become xel'naga. Keyword 'might.' The xel'naga eventually reached the conclusion that the Protoss weren't good enough - this implies very heavily that xel'nagaization is a delicate and complex process that requires a good margin of luck. After all, the xel'naga created thousands, perhaps millions, of species.
3. Thus, the entire purpose of the xel'naga in this galaxy was to create a successor species.
4. The xel'naga considered the protoss to possess purity of form. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of form' is 'kicks ass and has insane psychic powers' - basically, incredible individual power.
5. The xel'naga considered the zerg to possess purity of essence. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of essence' is 'perfectly unified and endlessly adaptive' - basically, incredible communal power.
The power of the individual turned to the purpose of the whole - that is a xel'naga. Knowing this, we can deduce the purpose of the xel'naga artifact. Why does it deinfest Kerrigan and blow up the zerg? Answer: it's not trying to do that. It's trying to fulfill the purpose of its creators. It's a tool that turns proto-xel'naga into xel'naga. The process is extremely draining; even the immortal Kerrigan is helpless, so mere minions like zerglings and shit just get blown up when the artifact tries to change 'em. Also, due to her immense psionic power, the artifact needs to reach full charge to penetrate her defenses and affect her.
Why does Kerrigan qualify as a xel'naga candidate? Well, she used to kick ass and possessed incredible psychic powers (remember when she meets raynor she effortlessly reads his mind). She qualifies for purity of form. After she's infested, she obviously qualifies for purity of essence. However, because infestation is an imperfect process, her zerg side was way stronger than her terran side; her components aren't in harmony like the xel'naga's were. The artifact balances that out. It doesn't turn her into a terran - it turns her into a perfect fusion of an elite terran ghost and a zerg. A being with both purity of form and purity of essence. A xel'naga.
With Kerrigan's apotheosis, the xel'naga have returned to this universe. Kerrigan is the galaxy's only hope because she is a xel'naga. Raynor didn't subvert the prophecy - he completed it.
Dude... mind = blown. Unfortunately, most of the time, fan speculation is far better than what actually comes. :-\ And where did you get all this info? Besides the games themselves I've only read the game manual. I should check out the books/comics sometime.
Also, what's up with Tassadar becoming more powerful than we can possibly imagine? And in SC1, the Overmind clearly states he wants to go to Aiur to become "perfect" I had assumed he wanted to assimilate the protoss.
On August 02 2010 14:11 writer22816 wrote: Just finished all-in on brutal today. The missions were hella fun but frankly this story was terrible. Literally nothing happens throughout ~75% of the campaign where you're just raiding random planets to get money. Tosh/Hanson was ok but nothing was built on them. In fact as I was trying to beat the final mission again and again, I realized how bad the storyline was because i literally knew nothing before that mission. That final mission + zeratul flashback IS the complete storyline. And not to mention the numerous plot holes of how Tychus is supposed to be employed by Mengsk but still goes around doing all that shit like hijacking the Odin. You can smell his betrayal coming a mile away just from the prologue and his conflicting ideals with Raynor's in the first few missions. Now I begin to understand why people label this game as marketed for 12 year olds.
Basically the entire storyline can be summed up as: Raynor teams up with Mengsk's son to "uninfest" Kerrigan; Tychus is killed because, despite the obvious plot holes, is actually working with Mengsk all along.
The cliffhanger ending is a big problem for me. This is a full game and in my opinion the storyline should be complete even if you only bought that one game. If you look back at BW or WC3, you'll see what I mean. In each game, the story offered a good and complete ending even if you only bought vanilla (Overmind dies/Legion is defeated, world is saved). Here in SC2 I am given a fucking cliffhanger ending as to what Kerrigan's allegiances are, what Valerian's motives are, what happens to Mengsk, and Zeratul's prophecy. WoL may be the length of 3 campaigns but its actual story is pretty much only that of 1. Albeit I expected this to happen because of Activision greed.
Yeah, it seems to me they had enough story for a typical 10 mission terran campaign. When they decided to split it into 3 separate expansions that 10 mission campaign suddenly needed to be stretched... thin. A lot of it was side missions that had little to do with the plot. At least Hanson missions were a direct result of the newly revived zerg invasion.
I'm hoping that when they do the expansions there is more of a sense in urgency in the missions. The delinear nature of the whole campaign just kind of made the story fall flat in some areas as there was never a plot sensitive reason to do a lot of the missions. For instance it’s possible to go rescue the colonists who have been asking for help since the start of the game right before you go invade char and they would be no worse for wear despite the fact that they have been under Zerg attack the whole game.
My hope is when they do HotS they make it more linear so that they can cross reference things that have happened in other missions. Like with the Zeratul missions and piercing the shroud, both contained hybrids but Raynor could never say "That hybrid is just like the one from Zeratul’s memory crystal!" or vice-versa all because it’s possible to do either mission without having done the other
On August 01 2010 16:47 Hats Hats Hats wrote: Okay, since a lot of people seem to think that Raynor screwed over the universe with his shenanigans, I'll explain Blizzard's angle here. They want you to think that the galaxy is screwed because of what he does, but it's the complete opposite. Zeratul's prophecy is carefully worded to be interpreted incorrectly. Actually,
If Raynor had not used the artifact on Kerrigan, the universe would be screwed. Allow me to explain. This explanation also covers why Kerrigan's still got head tentacles.
Zeratul knows "the xel'naga are returning," but he wonders if it's "to save...or to destroy?" We're supposed to assume that the latter is going to happen, but both of Zeratul's options are wrong. The xel'naga aren't going to return to save or destroy, they're going to save AND destroy.
What do we know about the xel'naga?
1. They have cyclical lifespans whereby two species, one with purity of form, the other with purity of essence, fuse over millions of years to create a superspecies with both purity of form and purity of essence. (The novels confirm this)
2. They created the Protoss and Zerg as one of their many candidate 'successor' xel'naga; if the P and Z fuse, they might become xel'naga. Keyword 'might.' The xel'naga eventually reached the conclusion that the Protoss weren't good enough - this implies very heavily that xel'nagaization is a delicate and complex process that requires a good margin of luck. After all, the xel'naga created thousands, perhaps millions, of species.
3. Thus, the entire purpose of the xel'naga in this galaxy was to create a successor species.
4. The xel'naga considered the protoss to possess purity of form. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of form' is 'kicks ass and has insane psychic powers' - basically, incredible individual power.
5. The xel'naga considered the zerg to possess purity of essence. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of essence' is 'perfectly unified and endlessly adaptive' - basically, incredible communal power.
The power of the individual turned to the purpose of the whole - that is a xel'naga. Knowing this, we can deduce the purpose of the xel'naga artifact. Why does it deinfest Kerrigan and blow up the zerg? Answer: it's not trying to do that. It's trying to fulfill the purpose of its creators. It's a tool that turns proto-xel'naga into xel'naga. The process is extremely draining; even the immortal Kerrigan is helpless, so mere minions like zerglings and shit just get blown up when the artifact tries to change 'em. Also, due to her immense psionic power, the artifact needs to reach full charge to penetrate her defenses and affect her.
Why does Kerrigan qualify as a xel'naga candidate? Well, she used to kick ass and possessed incredible psychic powers (remember when she meets raynor she effortlessly reads his mind). She qualifies for purity of form. After she's infested, she obviously qualifies for purity of essence. However, because infestation is an imperfect process, her zerg side was way stronger than her terran side; her components aren't in harmony like the xel'naga's were. The artifact balances that out. It doesn't turn her into a terran - it turns her into a perfect fusion of an elite terran ghost and a zerg. A being with both purity of form and purity of essence. A xel'naga.
With Kerrigan's apotheosis, the xel'naga have returned to this universe. Kerrigan is the galaxy's only hope because she is a xel'naga. Raynor didn't subvert the prophecy - he completed it.
Absolutely dead on. I'm gonna save this out to my Protoss archives, as this will prove out to be the 2nd best prophecy related to SCII.
Kerrigan and Jim are a fated couple, the SCII story tellers basically raped our faces with foreshadowing on the notion that Jimmy will not make it though the series -- and like any great love story Kerrigan, too, will have to fall likely in some symbolic fashion to honor Jim and his love for her. Fear not, Horner will carry the torch on with a heavy heart, as Jim and Sarah will have taught him the true meaning of sacrifice / freedom. In fact, I believe the next SC franchise will be built around the 'sith' and 'jedi' in training (Matt Horner and Mengsk Jr.) -- any guesses as to what will drive a wedge between them so as to create another eipc saga the likes of SC:BW and SCII?
Not sure if this has been mentioned before but does anyone think that the final mission of legacy of the void will be a harder version of In Utter Darkness where you actually have to defeat Dark Voice and the hybrids?
On August 01 2010 16:47 Hats Hats Hats wrote: Okay, since a lot of people seem to think that Raynor screwed over the universe with his shenanigans, I'll explain Blizzard's angle here. They want you to think that the galaxy is screwed because of what he does, but it's the complete opposite. Zeratul's prophecy is carefully worded to be interpreted incorrectly. Actually,
If Raynor had not used the artifact on Kerrigan, the universe would be screwed. Allow me to explain. This explanation also covers why Kerrigan's still got head tentacles.
Zeratul knows "the xel'naga are returning," but he wonders if it's "to save...or to destroy?" We're supposed to assume that the latter is going to happen, but both of Zeratul's options are wrong. The xel'naga aren't going to return to save or destroy, they're going to save AND destroy.
What do we know about the xel'naga?
1. They have cyclical lifespans whereby two species, one with purity of form, the other with purity of essence, fuse over millions of years to create a superspecies with both purity of form and purity of essence. (The novels confirm this)
2. They created the Protoss and Zerg as one of their many candidate 'successor' xel'naga; if the P and Z fuse, they might become xel'naga. Keyword 'might.' The xel'naga eventually reached the conclusion that the Protoss weren't good enough - this implies very heavily that xel'nagaization is a delicate and complex process that requires a good margin of luck. After all, the xel'naga created thousands, perhaps millions, of species.
3. Thus, the entire purpose of the xel'naga in this galaxy was to create a successor species.
4. The xel'naga considered the protoss to possess purity of form. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of form' is 'kicks ass and has insane psychic powers' - basically, incredible individual power.
5. The xel'naga considered the zerg to possess purity of essence. Therefore, we know that their definition of 'purity of essence' is 'perfectly unified and endlessly adaptive' - basically, incredible communal power.
The power of the individual turned to the purpose of the whole - that is a xel'naga. Knowing this, we can deduce the purpose of the xel'naga artifact. Why does it deinfest Kerrigan and blow up the zerg? Answer: it's not trying to do that. It's trying to fulfill the purpose of its creators. It's a tool that turns proto-xel'naga into xel'naga. The process is extremely draining; even the immortal Kerrigan is helpless, so mere minions like zerglings and shit just get blown up when the artifact tries to change 'em. Also, due to her immense psionic power, the artifact needs to reach full charge to penetrate her defenses and affect her.
Why does Kerrigan qualify as a xel'naga candidate? Well, she used to kick ass and possessed incredible psychic powers (remember when she meets raynor she effortlessly reads his mind). She qualifies for purity of form. After she's infested, she obviously qualifies for purity of essence. However, because infestation is an imperfect process, her zerg side was way stronger than her terran side; her components aren't in harmony like the xel'naga's were. The artifact balances that out. It doesn't turn her into a terran - it turns her into a perfect fusion of an elite terran ghost and a zerg. A being with both purity of form and purity of essence. A xel'naga.
With Kerrigan's apotheosis, the xel'naga have returned to this universe. Kerrigan is the galaxy's only hope because she is a xel'naga. Raynor didn't subvert the prophecy - he completed it.
Absolutely dead on. I'm gonna save this out to my Protoss archives, as this will prove out to be the 2nd best prophecy related to SCII.
Kerrigan and Jim are a fated couple, the SCII story tellers basically raped our faces with foreshadowing on the notion that Jimmy will not make it though the series -- and like any great love story Kerrigan, too, will have to fall likely in some symbolic fashion to honor Jim and his love for her. Fear not, Horner will carry the torch on with a heavy heart, as Jim and Sarah will have taught him the true meaning of sacrifice / freedom. In fact, I believe the next SC franchise will be built around the 'sith' and 'jedi' in training (Matt Horner and Mengsk Jr.) -- any guesses as to what will drive a wedge between them so as to create another eipc saga the likes of SC:BW and SCII?
Why does everyone assume that Kerrigan is the one who will stop the hybrids? She isn't the strongest Zerg by any means. In fact there is one zerg who had to be killed because she couldn't retain free will when he existed...the overmind.
Now I know everyone is going WTFBBQ alsowikk that is so stupid! But hear me out on this. The overmind's "corpse" was pulsating when Zeratul visitted it, besides the zerg guarding it when it has no value to them dead. And since Tassadar never used dark energy on it he couldn't really kill the overmind. This is all on top of the fact that the mission briefing for "In utter darknes" is given...by the overmind! I know this sounds wierd but why would these things be happenning if the overmind was a rotting corpse? Why would it understand it's people are being enslaved if it is a dead pile?
This makes me believe that heart of the swarm is about kerrigan reviving the overmind. She has to become more powerfull to fight the hybrids that attempt to take over the swarm and enslave the overmind once again. The Overmind made Kerrigan as a way to find a loophole in his instructions, but since the overmind has revived twice why can't he be brought back and kerrigan is the bodyguard? This would give kerrrigan an interesting role in the story has she will be taking a frontline position most likely as the "field general" of the swarm, and the overmind will provide new species of zerg and upgrades.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8840/asplannedrd3.jpg)
Yeah pretty sure she can still control the zerg.
I should check out the books/comics sometime.
