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On September 10 2023 18:33 Mafe wrote:
I'm starting to wonder who could replace Flick. Some of the previous leftfield choices with Völler and Klinsmann did alright in the short term, at least when the real tournament came around. Does anyone of the 2014 wc winners have trainers license by now? Or maybe take a non-german coach for the first time?
I think only Klose has a trainers license. Non-German for 9 months cant work.
DFB needs a quick-fix solution. Imo no Nagelsmann, they need someone who has won a International tournament like 2014 winners like you said or maybe someone who was part of 2006 because Germany really delivered back then at home
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Some experts arw guessing Nagelsmann could do it, also Glasner was mentioned which I find is not a bad coach at all. But I doubt that they want to do it.
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What's going on with Flick anyway? Isn't he supposed to be a passable coach at the very least? He's not necessary a world beater, but still very much capable of taking a bunch of quality players and making them play together on a decent level.
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Northern Ireland27217 Posts
On September 10 2023 21:03 Bacillus wrote:
What's going on with Flick anyway? Isn't he supposed to be a passable coach at the very least? He's not necessary a world beater, but still very much capable of taking a bunch of quality players and making them play together on a decent level.
He’s too good a coach, as counter-intuitive as that sounds, or at least too much of a modern coach vaguely on top of how the top level of club football is.
International football you have fook all time to actually drill anything, so if you’re a coach whose skillset is in that domain you can’t bring it to bear.
I think Klopp could pull it off because of his raw charisma and likeability, but I also don’t think a German side would be playing that coordinated, systemic Klopp-ball either.
The only real exception to this in the modern era is that dominant Spain team, who did play like a top club side and that was solely because the entire spine of the team was just Barcelona with a sprinkling of Real and a a dollop of players from elsewhere.
The football nerd types who are increasingly dominant in the club game can’t bring their strengths to bear in the national arena.
Who’s actually doing good work in the national arena? It’s guys like Deschaumps, or a Lionel Scaloni who set up their teams competently and nail the man-management motivation side of things. Van Gaal did good work by basically giving up on trying to play the traditionally attractive Dutch way, or like his club sides, wasn’t pretty but very pragmatic. I can only really think of Roberto Mancini and Marcelo Bielsa who really built something a bit more ambitious and with a clear imprint from the coach and it both took them quite a while to do it. And I’d argue the only reason they got to do that was Italy had quite a mediocre generation by their standards and lower expectations for instant results, and Chile weren’t a traditional powerhouse and were really lacking any kind of ‘Chilean way’ kind of identity, which Bielsa definitely brought.
Why I’ll continually defend Gareth Southgate, he’s a bit cautious and not a tactical wizard but he’s nailed literally everything else in his tenure. People are quick to forget the days where players brought their club rivalries to the national team, and the national team and the media were frequently at loggerheads.
He’s not a great coach, but he’s a very good England national coach with all the (often non-football) baggage that gig brings.
If Flick is kicked to the curb, and assuming the Germans insist on having a German in charge, their best bet is probably some storied average Bundesliga veteran with a particular skill in man management and motivation, rather than someone like Nagelsman or Tuchel who are both tactical magicians but also spiky characters who fall out with a lot of people.
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Norway28873 Posts
Ancelotti strikes me as the ideal NT manager. Hasn't done any of that though.
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Northern Ireland27217 Posts
On September 10 2023 21:45 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Ancelotti strikes me as the ideal NT manager. Hasn't done any of that though.
Oh yeah he’d be great. I think Zidane with his legendary player status would do fantastic for France too.
Mourinho would probably kill it for Portugal too. He’s kind of fallen off a little as a real elite coach but his charisma and aura would translate very well to that environment IMO
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Aaaaand Flick is gone 
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That happened faster than I expected. Like, about 12 months faster.
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First good decision by German football since world cup
I rate flick but he was the wrong man
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On September 10 2023 21:31 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2023 21:03 Bacillus wrote:
What's going on with Flick anyway? Isn't he supposed to be a passable coach at the very least? He's not necessary a world beater, but still very much capable of taking a bunch of quality players and making them play together on a decent level. He’s too good a coach, as counter-intuitive as that sounds, or at least too much of a modern coach vaguely on top of how the top level of club football is. International football you have fook all time to actually drill anything, so if you’re a coach whose skillset is in that domain you can’t bring it to bear. I think Klopp could pull it off because of his raw charisma and likeability, but I also don’t think a German side would be playing that coordinated, systemic Klopp-ball either. The only real exception to this in the modern era is that dominant Spain team, who did play like a top club side and that was solely because the entire spine of the team was just Barcelona with a sprinkling of Real and a a dollop of players from elsewhere. The football nerd types who are increasingly dominant in the club game can’t bring their strengths to bear in the national arena. Who’s actually doing good work in the national arena? It’s guys like Deschaumps, or a Lionel Scaloni who set up their teams competently and nail the man-management motivation side of things. Van Gaal did good work by basically giving up on trying to play the traditionally attractive Dutch way, or like his club sides, wasn’t pretty but very pragmatic. I can only really think of Roberto Mancini and Marcelo Bielsa who really built something a bit more ambitious and with a clear imprint from the coach and it both took them quite a while to do it. And I’d argue the only reason they got to do that was Italy had quite a mediocre generation by their standards and lower expectations for instant results, and Chile weren’t a traditional powerhouse and were really lacking any kind of ‘Chilean way’ kind of identity, which Bielsa definitely brought. Why I’ll continually defend Gareth Southgate, he’s a bit cautious and not a tactical wizard but he’s nailed literally everything else in his tenure. People are quick to forget the days where players brought their club rivalries to the national team, and the national team and the media were frequently at loggerheads. He’s not a great coach, but he’s a very good England national coach with all the (often non-football) baggage that gig brings. If Flick is kicked to the curb, and assuming the Germans insist on having a German in charge, their best bet is probably some storied average Bundesliga veteran with a particular skill in man management and motivation, rather than someone like Nagelsman or Tuchel who are both tactical magicians but also spiky characters who fall out with a lot of people.
Huh? Are you saying that Flick is a top club manager like Klopp and Pep? That's quite a stretch. He spent 1 2/3 seasons with Bayern as manager (promoted in end 2019 after Kovac was sacked). Second half of 2019/2020 onward was basically overshadowed by COVID. Before Bayern, he was assistant manager / sporting director for Germany for over a decade. And before that, his club coaching stints were in the lower leagues.
That's not to say he's a bad coach who can't get better. But he's yet to really prove himself as a club manager. And he may even be a better fit as a national coach (if I recall correctly, the main reason he quit Bayern was to take up Low's vacant post).
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I only just watched the highlights, how was the balance of play? 64% possession to Germany says it's not all that bad. Add a lucky first goal, a semi-lucky second goal (that wasn't an assist, or a shot for that matter), then Germany starts to press and gets countered? Not every 1-4 is the same...
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On September 11 2023 03:01 Mafe wrote:
Völler back for now :D
Any opinions from you or our other German friends on this?
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Northern Ireland27217 Posts
On September 11 2023 00:12 RKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2023 21:31 WombaT wrote:On September 10 2023 21:03 Bacillus wrote:
What's going on with Flick anyway? Isn't he supposed to be a passable coach at the very least? He's not necessary a world beater, but still very much capable of taking a bunch of quality players and making them play together on a decent level. He’s too good a coach, as counter-intuitive as that sounds, or at least too much of a modern coach vaguely on top of how the top level of club football is. International football you have fook all time to actually drill anything, so if you’re a coach whose skillset is in that domain you can’t bring it to bear. I think Klopp could pull it off because of his raw charisma and likeability, but I also don’t think a German side would be playing that coordinated, systemic Klopp-ball either. The only real exception to this in the modern era is that dominant Spain team, who did play like a top club side and that was solely because the entire spine of the team was just Barcelona with a sprinkling of Real and a a dollop of players from elsewhere. The football nerd types who are increasingly dominant in the club game can’t bring their strengths to bear in the national arena. Who’s actually doing good work in the national arena? It’s guys like Deschaumps, or a Lionel Scaloni who set up their teams competently and nail the man-management motivation side of things. Van Gaal did good work by basically giving up on trying to play the traditionally attractive Dutch way, or like his club sides, wasn’t pretty but very pragmatic. I can only really think of Roberto Mancini and Marcelo Bielsa who really built something a bit more ambitious and with a clear imprint from the coach and it both took them quite a while to do it. And I’d argue the only reason they got to do that was Italy had quite a mediocre generation by their standards and lower expectations for instant results, and Chile weren’t a traditional powerhouse and were really lacking any kind of ‘Chilean way’ kind of identity, which Bielsa definitely brought. Why I’ll continually defend Gareth Southgate, he’s a bit cautious and not a tactical wizard but he’s nailed literally everything else in his tenure. People are quick to forget the days where players brought their club rivalries to the national team, and the national team and the media were frequently at loggerheads. He’s not a great coach, but he’s a very good England national coach with all the (often non-football) baggage that gig brings. If Flick is kicked to the curb, and assuming the Germans insist on having a German in charge, their best bet is probably some storied average Bundesliga veteran with a particular skill in man management and motivation, rather than someone like Nagelsman or Tuchel who are both tactical magicians but also spiky characters who fall out with a lot of people. Huh? Are you saying that Flick is a top club manager like Klopp and Pep? That's quite a stretch. He spent 1 2/3 seasons with Bayern as manager (promoted in end 2019 after Kovac was sacked). Second half of 2019/2020 onward was basically overshadowed by COVID. Before Bayern, he was assistant manager / sporting director for Germany for over a decade. And before that, his club coaching stints were in the lower leagues. That's not to say he's a bad coach who can't get better. But he's yet to really prove himself as a club manager. And he may even be a better fit as a national coach (if I recall correctly, the main reason he quit Bayern was to take up Low's vacant post).
He’s not on that tier, but he’s of that type.
I don’t think Pep would be a successful national team manager, despite personally thinking he’s the best coach around currently. His teams are so good because of relentless tactical drilling, which is the thing you don’t have time to do.
In the same way Has or sOs aren’t as good at Starcraft as Serral is, but if I was to pick somebody with 10000 dollars on the line to close out a weird cheesy game I’d bet on them
It’s a borderline different managerial skillset these days
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On September 11 2023 02:33 aseq wrote:
I only just watched the highlights, how was the balance of play? 64% possession to Germany says it's not all that bad. Add a lucky first goal, a semi-lucky second goal (that wasn't an assist, or a shot for that matter), then Germany starts to press and gets countered? Not every 1-4 is the same...
Possession doesn't say anything about a game. Japan had record low possession against Spain in the world cup but anyone watching the game knew there was only one team in control (Japan).
Japan had enough chances to score 8 goals (ter Stegen alone blocked a lot), Germany max. 2? Germany was flooded
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On September 11 2023 03:20 RvB wrote:Any opinions from you or our other German friends on this?
It has a nostalgic feeling for sure, that's why I'm positive towards it. He and Klinsmann were some of my childhood football heroes even before they got involved in coaching the national team.
But more objectively I conjecture that also some of the players the tow of them coached grew up watching them and therefore had instant respect for them. 20 years on, this is longer the case. Afaik Völler has no real coaching experience since. I dont think he is a viable solution, but if for whatever reason the result change now, they might just stick with him anyway and the I'd also be okay with that. Anyway I havent read much more yet, and it seems he is intende to only take an interim role.
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This guy's mom still on a hunger strike while locked in a church?
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Well... that's one way to not play again.
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Just saw the Pogba thing. I wonder if it was a dumb attempt to get back to playing after so many recent injuries or if he's been doing it all along
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my thought was the former. hes had so many muscle related injuries that it wouldnt surprise me if he tried something spectacular to get back into fitness
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EPT
