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bluzi
4703 Posts
Both of them seems like the kind of individuals who wont mind the rivalry to be toxic , Lewis was there with Nico for a whole season and years after they are still on bad terms , Max also seems like the "I DONT GIVE A F***K" person. If Bottas was a better driver he could've come from behind and steal some wins in this situation , but alas he is not good enough , he got beat fair and square on pure pace by a mid field ferrari , while Lewis was taking 1+ seconds a lap out of Charles. | ||
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MWY
Germany284 Posts
On July 19 2021 08:17 greenelve wrote: Looking at other sports, wether american football, nba, football aka soccer, if a player gets injured during a match, the winning team is still celebrating and everyone is fine with it. Besides its something really serious like we saw at european championship at one of the first matches with Denmark and Eriksen. From the perspective of Verstappen it is not fair. But i guess that comes more from his inability due to the collision to have not finished the race and lost points in the championship. A few races ago, when he had is tyre failure and was forced to watch the race from hospital too, he said he felt much better once he knew that Hamilton was out too. As a fan im hungry to watch the next races, i doubt it will become less tense now. A bang of some sort was expected for a while to be happen this year. Both are so good and so close in overall performance. We saw it in the past with Prost and Senna or Schumacher and Hill, it will happen at some point if egos met at highest pressure. You cant really compare those sports you mentioned to F1, but let's say you injure half the enemies best players during a match, they can't continue, limp away and you don't know if they're really okay. You get a couple of yellow cards. You win easily. Would you really celebrate afterwards like it's the biggest win of your career and blame the other guys for their injuries basically saying "well, they got what they deserved, it was their fault" even though the mere fact that you were penalized for it states otherwise? And yes, sure crashes happen when two egos collide, but 1. Those examples were different eras and one would hope that things would have advanced a bit by now. 2. Even Schumacher didn't crash his opponents out at 300km/h. | ||
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Aristodemus
England2006 Posts
I thought the penalty was harsh to be honest, both were to blame. Horner embarrassed himself once again. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
Lewis was at fault, but Max put himself in a risky position. The penalty was pretty irrelevant, and I think the 5-10 second penalties for causing a collision might need a revisit. If you gain an advantage from causing a collision, the penalty really needs to be enough to negate that advantage by the next pitstop. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3993 Posts
On July 20 2021 01:44 Aristodemus wrote: Max is an aggressive defender, this type of incident is going to happen if you continually place your rivals with a yield or crash scenario. Lewis bailed twice on that lap alone. I thought the penalty was harsh to be honest, both were to blame. Horner embarrassed himself once again. Only fans from England have your take on it. The car that's in front isn't at fault when it leaves enough room, it's up to the driver that's overtaking to find a different line. Max is certainly an aggressive driver, but in this incident, Lewis was 100% at fault. His driving style in general doesn't change that and doesn't make it right. | ||
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Aristodemus
England2006 Posts
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aseq
Netherlands3993 Posts
On July 20 2021 06:38 Aristodemus wrote: Fans from all over have different opinions on it, I actually like both Max and Lewis, both are great drivers. It definitely wasn't 100% blame on either of them. If you want a fair view of it check out the video Karun Chandok did on the sky website. I pretty much agree with all he said on it. I did watch that, but I don't see how you could label this guy as objective as he's been in England for 20 years and works for Sky Sports. His opinion 'they could both have given each other more room' is true only if Max is constantly watching his rear view mirror to spot that Hamilton is not following the apex, which would be the most natural route (like he did when he overtook Leclerc at the end), but driving into his rear tire. | ||
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
On July 19 2021 23:38 MWY wrote: You cant really compare those sports you mentioned to F1 Sure motorsport has only 1 driver whereas a teamsport has many on the field. Real Madrid vs Liverpool a few years ago, Ramos had a ...confrontation with Salah... it wasnt a tackle but defender against forward struggling for a position, which resulted in an injury for Salah. This was a huge blow to the offense and the chance to win for liverpool as a team. still celebrating Madrid, after they secured the champions league trophy. Or in American Football, tackling a quarterback like Brady resulting in a game decieding injury. Sure, in football one injury isnt that crucial to the outcome as it is in F1. So i only compared a game changing injury and the sportsmanship of celebrating a victory afterwards. Whereas Schumacher never crashing another driver at 300kmh... neither was the intend of Hamilton. Max isnt famous for being shy in driving through corners wheel to wheel. As we saw first corner in Imola this year. Or a few corners earlier this race, where Hamilton backed up to prevent cars touching. Besides fanboy and all that stuff, no one wants to shoot his opponent off the track... | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5298 Posts
On July 20 2021 08:06 aseq wrote: if you look from Maxs' perspective, you can see him turning into Lewis in that corner, trying to close him off, and not going wide. Max knew where Lewis was the whole time.I did watch that, but I don't see how you could label this guy as objective as he's been in England for 20 years and works for Sky Sports. His opinion 'they could both have given each other more room' is true only if Max is constantly watching his rear view mirror to spot that Hamilton is not following the apex, which would be the most natural route (like he did when he overtook Leclerc at the end), but driving into his rear tire. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
On July 20 2021 13:27 xM(Z wrote: if you look from Maxs' perspective, you can see him turning into Lewis in that corner, trying to close him off, and not going wide. Max knew where Lewis was the whole time. He's not on the racing line though, he's leaving a cars width + a bit on the inside through Copse. Lewis had enough room if he slowed down enough for it. Max HAD to turn there to make the corner. Max's problem was that Lewis didn't turn. Max isn't waiting for Lewis to turn in so that he can turn in. He's turning in at the right point to make the corner while leaving room for Lewis to make it around too. | ||
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Aristodemus
England2006 Posts
On July 20 2021 08:06 aseq wrote: I did watch that, but I don't see how you could label this guy as objective as he's been in England for 20 years and works for Sky Sports. His opinion 'they could both have given each other more room' is true only if Max is constantly watching his rear view mirror to spot that Hamilton is not following the apex, which would be the most natural route (like he did when he overtook Leclerc at the end), but driving into his rear tire. By your own rationale you have no ability to be objective, or is it just English people? | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3993 Posts
On July 20 2021 17:02 Aristodemus wrote: By your own rationale you have no ability to be objective, or is it just English people? Haha, this summer it's just English people 😜. Of course I don't know enough about this. He didn't get a penalty for nothing though, and they stressed they don't take the outcome of the incident into consideration when looking into it. | ||
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Penev
28512 Posts
I wish Mercedes wouldn't have been able to repair the car in time so they would’ve both been taken out. We’d still have the “now the gloves have come off” narrative and I would still have some respect left for the current world champion. It was ugly. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
The issue is that Max was punished massively for Lewis' mistake. He is now 25 points down, and his engine is wrecked, netting him another 10 grid penalty further down the year, while the perpetrator won out massively. It just does not feel right. There's no real solution other than massively changing the rules, and even then I can't really see how. Engine swap on a wreck should be a given imo, but you can't really make rules punishing Lewis' here, at least not if you want any actual racing to happen. It just feels so unfair, especially when you add how unreasonably lucky Lewis' is, constantly. Leclerc's engine issues, Norris' slow pit stop, the fact that Lewis would likely have had to retire the car if not for the red flag, which gave them time to fix it in the pits.. the dude is truly #blessed beyond reason Edit: I should also add that the racism we've seen over the last few days is un-fucking-acceptable. Reddit mods have removed over 6000 posts and comments on r/formula1 alone.. a day! Go away dipshits, there are no room for you in F1 | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6804 Posts
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Aristodemus
England2006 Posts
On July 20 2021 17:53 aseq wrote: Haha, this summer it's just English people 😜. Of course I don't know enough about this. He didn't get a penalty for nothing though, and they stressed they don't take the outcome of the incident into consideration when looking into it. I think the one thing everyone in this forum would agree on is that the stewards don't always get it right! Other things to note from the race, how awesome was LeClercs Ferrari on the softer tyre, Lewis couldn't get near him and he was driving away from everyone else. Hopefully Ferrari can get in the mix too, their car seems strange, very fast some weeks and nowhere the following week. They had the best car in Monaco, and looked like contenders at another race (I forget which one). | ||
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
On July 20 2021 20:40 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: Is crazy that hamilton didnt go out or receive more damage. After the race it was reported that Lewis had a tyre / wheel rim damage and without red flag which allowed a free change, they had a scenario ranging from would have needed an extra pitstop early on to take the car out of the race. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
I half agree with it. I think that, given the new red flag standing start rule, any car that undergoes repairs beyond changing the tires when mandated (this is usually done on safety grounds when a crash leaves debris that cars had to drive over) should be required to start from either the pitlane or the back of the field on restart. There are starting to be way more red flags and it's turning each race into a lottery where those who do long stints or damage their car right before a red flag massively benefit through no work of their own while those running the race normally get fucked over for no reason. To put into perspective the impact red flags have had, Hamilton has gained 44 points this season through red flags so far. In Imola after he made a massive error and smashed his car up, a red flag allowed his team to fix his car and put him back in the race where he went on to get second. This last race he crashed into Verstappen, damaged his car, but then was able to repair it and go on to win the race. As an aside, I really don't like how frequent red flags are now. It seems like there's one every other race now whereas there used to be one or two a year in the past. They completely ruin the flow of the race and, as they are, make the races way too luck dependent. It doubly sucks because Masi's specifically said he does them to mix up the race, which makes the whole race just feel artificial and arbitrary. Several of the situations where they red flagged the race this year could have just been a safety car as was done in the past. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
Jolyon Palmer's take on it - racing incident from his perspective with far more camera angles and comparisons to previous years. Lewis was definitely a bit wide, but only a meter or so. Small margins at that speed. Rough result though for Max. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3993 Posts
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