EPTAnd its another Ham Ver Bot podium. Merc did a better pit stop strategy this race.
Formula 1 Discussion - Page 52
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LennX
4560 Posts
And its another Ham Ver Bot podium. Merc did a better pit stop strategy this race. | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On May 09 2021 23:40 LennX wrote: Tsunoda had a bad weekend. I hope he can get over it. His skills are there but he is very rough around the edges. It is still too early to tell where he stands. Judging after the mid season break will be better. And its another Ham Ver Bot podium. Merc did a better pit stop strategy this race. Was also quite a bit easier due to the Bottas buffer they had. If Perez would've been in the mix just pitting Hamilton would've been a bit harder for Merc too I guess as Hamilton would've had to get past Perez (although their speed advantage did seem quite big, so who knows if that would've really helped all that much). I felt responding to the 2nd Hamilton pit was never really an option due to Bottas though. Anyway, RB clearly also lacking some pace, hope they manage to get just a bit closer and the tracks (and temps) later on in the season help them a bit. | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4028 Posts
I get that other teams need to be better, they absolutely do. But fuck this number 1 and number 2 bullshit (and I'm not basing this solely on today's race). | ||
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mderg
Germany1740 Posts
On May 09 2021 22:49 Excludos wrote: Mazepin needs to be booted out of F1 already. I'm a Max fan, but the fact that he made Lewis lose a whole second by ignoring blue flags during a critical phase is not how we want a race to be decided. Mazepin let him by as soon as he was shown the blue flags. Toto simply complained because there were no blue flags for Mazepin. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
I wish the broadcasters would show the midfield much more and stop focusing mostly on Hamilton and Verstappen. There was a ton of stuff going on in the midfield this race but they barely showed it until after Hamilton passed Verstappen. Sky Sports in particular has been very bad this year for tunnel visioning and just focusing on Lewis versus Verstappen. Like yesterday in qualifying they completely ignored and didn't even notice that Leclerc went from 7th or 8th to 4th at the end of Q3. After trying to hype Perez's iffy lap up (Croft going "HE'S GONE GREEN IN TWO SECTORS" after forgetting Perez spun his car and never finished a sector at speed on his first lap) they basically went "welp, nobody improved on their second lap" when several cars did including Leclerc and Ricciardo. They need to find someone other than David Croft for Sky. He's so tiring to listen to now. He just yells nonstop and gets so much wrong in the race. Worse still, when it's obvious he was mistaken he doubles down rather than correcting himself (see him saying Hamilton had to slow down for his first Q3 run yesterday because of Perez's spin when Hamilton was in front of Perez and was out of the sector when the yellow flags were shown). When he first started at Sky he was actually kinda decent and didn't really yell that much. But now it's just shouting and trying to hype up things to the point of detracting from the race. I often end up muting the first few laps now because his shouting makes it hard to follow. | ||
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Kaolla
China2999 Posts
On May 10 2021 04:16 Ben... wrote: So far it seems like this season is gonna be the same as last year: mostly Mercedes winning with the odd bit of Red Bull being able to challenge on a race-to-race basis. If Perez doesn't get up to speed soon, Mercedes will easily clinch the Constructors Championship. Bottas isn't blowing anyone away with his performances but he is still mostly getting third place, which is probably what is expected of him. Verstappen is repeating what he did the last two years but Red Bull are still making all of the same mistakes they've been making for two or three years now. They'll never beat Mercedes if they don't clean these mistakes up. I wish the broadcasters would show the midfield much more and stop focusing mostly on Hamilton and Verstappen. There was a ton of stuff going on in the midfield this race but they barely showed it until after Hamilton passed Verstappen. Sky Sports in particular has been very bad this year for tunnel visioning and just focusing on Lewis versus Verstappen. Like yesterday in qualifying they completely ignored and didn't even notice that Leclerc went from 7th or 8th to 4th at the end of Q3. After trying to hype Perez's iffy lap up (Croft going "HE'S GONE GREEN IN TWO SECTORS" after forgetting Perez spun his car and never finished a sector at speed on his first lap) they basically went "welp, nobody improved on their second lap" when several cars did including Leclerc and Ricciardo. They need to find someone other than David Croft for Sky. He's so tiring to listen to now. He just yells nonstop and gets so much wrong in the race. Worse still, when it's obvious he was mistaken he doubles down rather than correcting himself (see him saying Hamilton had to slow down for his first Q3 run yesterday because of Perez's spin when Hamilton was in front of Perez and was out of the sector when the yellow flags were shown). When he first started at Sky he was actually kinda decent and didn't really yell that much. But now it's just shouting and trying to hype up things to the point of detracting from the race. I often end up muting the first few laps now because his shouting makes it hard to follow. What mistakes are Red Bull making other than just not having the pace? Come on man, there is nothing they could have done better today other than what they did. If Perez is not there to give backup there is never any change for them to win this race and even with Perez being there, they would have most likely lost it. You are going along with the media narrtative of Red Bull making the mistakes, while Mercedes had the fastest car in 3/4 races now. Red Bull was lucky to win the 2nd race cause Mercedes fucked up and Merc was lucky Hamilton's huge mistake didn't cost them much in that race, but RB has absolutely not messed up much and they've not been ahead in pretty much any situation. That Crofty was shit in qualifying, yea no doubt, but it doesnt help with the rest of the narrative, namely that RB would be making mistakes. They didn't make that many mistakes. They were mostly in a 1vs2 situation and they had to take a gamble in those situations and it didn't pay off (while even the opposite gamble probably also wouldn't have paid off). Even if it woulda been 2vs2 though, Merc had the faster car in all of those situations. Shit happens, the first race Merc won where they shouldn't have. The 2nd race RB won where they shouldn't have. Other than that, Merc has been on top and it's not RB making mistakes, it's just Merc being the better team once again and Hamilton benefitting of that. I mean he's a top driver, don't get me wrong, but it's not RB fucking up or Merc doing insanely awesome shit, it's just Merc being on top and Hamilton obviously being better than Bottas. We can only hope that soon the tracks/temps/compounds will become better for RB, because if they don't Merc is gonna run away with it once again and the media can spin it to Mercedes doing the right strategical thing or this being a real challenge all they want, but it's not. Today has shown that even a perfect race from one of the RB's didn't get them anywhere near a race win. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
I guess I'm more just frustrated with Red Bull in general. They use to be my favourite team. With Ricciardo and Verstappen they were among the most exciting teams but now they are just a mess to watch and seem like they will never be able to win the Constructor's Championship. All of their recent issues seem self-inflicted. There was some choice they made with their direction in 2017 and 2018 that has messed up what seemed like a winning formula (whatever it was they decided was bad enough to chase Ricciardo away from a race winning team to the midfield). They've burned through two, and it's looking like maybe three, promising drivers when clearly there is something fundamentally wrong with how the second car's side of the garage is operating that hasn't been fixed. Perez has been known for years for his race pace and even he can't keep up with Verstappen and Mercedes. It's like they did the Schumacher/Benetton strategy but haven't had the car to back it up so it's blown up in their faces and left them with one functioning garage and car that is situationally good and another garage and car that is basically left to flail and hope Mercedes DNFs. I'm still not happy with how they handled Albon. He deserved better. The second half of last season was bad for him, but it seemed like there was something going on behind the scenes causing him a lot of additional pressure that was impacting his performances. His results in 2019 were amazing for a rookie (his first 4 races at Red Bull netted the same number of points Perez has scored at Red Bull. Again, this was a rookie who had first driven an F1 car at pre-season testing that year). Now it looks like he has few paths back to F1 despite being clearly fast enough to be in it. Gasly's now trapped at Alpha Tauri unless he finds somewhere else to drive at since he supposedly said something that pissed off Helmut Marko and will never be back in the Red Bull as a result. Perez already having the same consistency issues his predecessors did and that's with a supposedly more stable car. It's all just a mess. edit: just saw Graham Rahal pointed out something similar with regards to Red Bull's strategy. Someone in the replies pointed out to him that Verstappen only had softs left and his response was basically that Red Bull needs to be planning out their whole weekend better since Mercedes is doing so. Someone else pointed out that Red Bull tends to be more reactive than proactive with strategy, and that's part of how they end up in binds like this, which is actually pretty accurate: | ||
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Excludos
Norway8190 Posts
It's easy with hindsight and say "they should have done something!" But that's exactly what they did, they gambled on Hamilton not being able to catch up as quick as he did, and it didn't work out. If they had pitted Max, people would be sitting here going "Omg they should have known pitting wouldn't work! It was obvious he'd get out behind Bottas!!!11oneone" | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4028 Posts
On May 10 2021 16:09 Excludos wrote: Not sure there was anything RB could have done. If they pitted Max, he'd be behind Bottas, who would have held him up long enough not to be able to catch Hamilton. This is the exact reason why having two cars against one is so dang powerful. You can practically just lock your opponent into the strategies you want them to. Leaving him out was the correct call in the moment, as I don't think anyone expected Hamilton to catch as insanely fast as he did, and still have tires left to overtake as casually as he did. Remember this isn't a track where overtaking is particularly easy in the first place. It's easy with hindsight and say "they should have done something!" But that's exactly what they did, they gambled on Hamilton not being able to catch up as quick as he did, and it didn't work out. If they had pitted Max, people would be sitting here going "Omg they should have known pitting wouldn't work! It was obvious he'd get out behind Bottas!!!11oneone" Exactly, if there was another redbull between Max and Bottas - 100% Max would pit again, but the risk of getting stuck behind Bottas on this track where the dirty air is so bad meant no go for that extra stop. "hands are tied => sitting duck" | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On May 10 2021 17:38 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Exactly, if there was another redbull between Max and Bottas - 100% Max would pit again, but the risk of getting stuck behind Bottas on this track where the dirty air is so bad meant no go for that extra stop. "hands are tied => sitting duck" I think they should trust Max to be able to pass Bottas' and do the faster strategy anyways even if it requires passing Bottas. The only person Max would struggle to pass with a tire advantage is Lewis. Not having the tires to do it definitely screwed them though. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
Where are my Ferraris  , its heartbreaking to see us cheering for 4th place like we won the race ..... super drive from Charles , but still hurts we cant get close to a podium on merit , harsh times. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On May 10 2021 03:24 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: I know i'm being irrational and that's how victories are made, but I certainly blame Toto Wolf and Co for lack of variety in F1. Granted they have the best car on the track and arguably the best driver of all times, but they specifically scouted and recruited Bottas and now they are using him as a dedicated tool to slow down competitors and allow Hamilton to keep winning WITHOUT challenging Hamilton. The last time we had some fun in F1 was when Rosbert challenged Hamilton and we had 2 years of neck in neck fighting. I get that other teams need to be better, they absolutely do. But fuck this number 1 and number 2 bullshit (and I'm not basing this solely on today's race). Actually those are my feelings EXACTLY , they could give us the best show on earth when it comes to F1 and STILL walk out with both championships , Max would've gone to the Mercs , Charles (not 100% sure , but I think he would've) , Daniel , and even Russel , all of them would give Lewis a better fight , most would lose , but it would be much more competitive , Vallteri is stomped , lewis broke him , he cannot keep pace with him , and I think this season was his last chance of beating Lewis , the realization that he cannot beat Lewis has settled in for him , so now we are stuck with a teammate that is off the pace and is lacking the self belief that is needed to win. My only hope now is to have the Mercs lose 2022 somehow , but I don't think that would happen .... sadly I think we are on our way for more of the same , mainly because they will have again , the best in class PU , while Honda and Ferrari are trying to catch up (but cant due to engine freeze). | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On May 11 2021 04:22 bluzi wrote: We can try and make up a reality to better fit your desires or hope , but as Max , who is the straightest shooter on this grid , pointed out several times post race - " we are not quick enough " " we are lacking pace" , its that simple , there was no strategy for RB that could win them this race on merit (i.e without safety cars or mercs breaking down) , if this clear pace advantage mercs are having now wont be mitigated by RB , then Lewis will just coast to his 8th , he is just too good to lose in better machinery to ANYONE , he is too good to lose in equal machinery to be honest , so Max has no chance if he doesn't have an equal car , and I would even say he needs a better car because lewis is a better driver and have a better team behind him. Where are my Ferraris , its heartbreaking to see us cheering for 4th place like we won the race ..... super drive from Charles , but still hurts we cant get close to a podium on merit , harsh times.I mean the last season that looked this close was 2018(maybe even 2017, because after mid-2018, Vettel had the drop in form). This season is kinda shaping up to look like 2017 to a certain extent. Max/Lewis head and shoulders above everybody else, with Lewis having a slightly faster car. Max needs to be perfect to get a title, because Merc(and Lewis because he is #blessed is going to be), and sadly he hasn't quite been there. Imagine if Max nailed the pass on Lewis by not being quite so greedy on the throttle after completing the pass in Bahrain, and didn't go outside track limits last race. He'd now be leading the championship by 1 point. | ||
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greenelve
Germany1392 Posts
The reason to me, that Lewis could catch up the 22 seconds after his second pit stop, was Max saving his tyres to go for 1 stop strategy. By going for a second stop too, Max should have had a better pace to maybe stay ahead after changing to soft. Reminder, Lewis lost time overtaking Mazepin, to the point that Toto was talking to Michael Masi on radio. And we saw at the beginning, how hard it was for Lews to overtake Max on even tyres. If Red Bull could have managed to stay ahead with soft... but thats just my thoughts and heavenly relies on Max staying ahead and his softs endure 20+ laps. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
Maybe Merc & RB will fight throughout the year and that will let Ferrari to catch up for 2022 ?! yea , I need to wakeup , with engine freeze we wont be getting back to the front But with cars that can follow closer , I think racing should be extremely engaging in 2022 (assuming they nail the aero side of it) even if we still be missing the sharp end competition , as I predict (yea , brave of me) Mercs to dominate the new regulations as well , as they have the best PU , amazing proven engineering staff , amazing team culture - here I will say its easy to have great team culture when you are winning everything , too bad we as the "rest of F1" couldn't really test them. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8190 Posts
On May 11 2021 19:34 greenelve wrote: I wonder what woud had happen, if Max has used his tyres for better pace until, lets say, lap 46 to change to soft and finish the last 20 laps on them. The reason to me, that Lewis could catch up the 22 seconds after his second pit stop, was Max saving his tyres to go for 1 stop strategy. By going for a second stop too, Max should have had a better pace to maybe stay ahead after changing to soft. Reminder, Lewis lost time overtaking Mazepin, to the point that Toto was talking to Michael Masi on radio. And we saw at the beginning, how hard it was for Lews to overtake Max on even tyres. If Red Bull could have managed to stay ahead with soft... but thats just my thoughts and heavenly relies on Max staying ahead and his softs endure 20+ laps. Max would end up behind Bottas, who was on new enough tires that Max wouldn't be able to pass as easily without shredding his own. So no, that strategy would in all likelihood not have worked, and even carried the chance of getting third instead of second. This is the power of having 2 cars competing with one. Merc will always be able to out-strategize Red Bull, because they can always pinch Max out. It is vital to RB that Perez manages to keep somewhat pace with Bottas if they want to have any chance of winning the championship | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
A few other thoughts on the season so far: The midfield battle is great this year. Ferrari and McLaren are evenly matched, Alpine are also on a decent way, even though the last race was setback. Overall, the gaps are really small. Gasly also can deliver good results on his day. Aston Martin's slump was to be expected. They were good last year, because they copied the 2019 Merc. But with the regulation changes, their lack of understanding now shows. While Mercedes has managed to get a grip on the handling issues, AM still struggle. Williams is looking promising, they might get a few points this year. Haas is just... bad. But that's no surprise, as they're basically using last year's car. Schumacher is doing a good job so far, Mazepin on the other hand... He was no slouch in F2, but he has to get up to speed quickly. His daddy's money surely helps, but if he wants to have a career in F1, he needs to deliver. As for the other rookie (Tsunoda): He's quick, but seems a bit hot headed. Overall, I enjoy the season so far. We've had some good races, even Spain was better than usual. Monaco will be boring af, but then the game is on. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On May 13 2021 11:53 virpi wrote: This season just shows how good Hamilton really is. He made ONE mistake in Imola, otherwise he has been perfect. Verstappen is also really good, but there have been a few blunders, both by him and his team. Mercedes just doesn't fuck up that often. And then there's the mystery about the 2nd RB car. Perez is doing well, it takes time to adjust to a new car, but he has to come closer to Bottas, otherwise Mercedes will always win the strategic battle. A few other thoughts on the season so far: The midfield battle is great this year. Ferrari and McLaren are evenly matched, Alpine are also on a decent way, even though the last race was setback. Overall, the gaps are really small. Gasly also can deliver good results on his day. Aston Martin's slump was to be expected. They were good last year, because they copied the 2019 Merc. But with the regulation changes, their lack of understanding now shows. While Mercedes has managed to get a grip on the handling issues, AM still struggle. Williams is looking promising, they might get a few points this year. Haas is just... bad. But that's no surprise, as they're basically using last year's car. Schumacher is doing a good job so far, Mazepin on the other hand... He was no slouch in F2, but he has to get up to speed quickly. His daddy's money surely helps, but if he wants to have a career in F1, he needs to deliver. As for the other rookie (Tsunoda): He's quick, but seems a bit hot headed. Overall, I enjoy the season so far. We've had some good races, even Spain was better than usual. Monaco will be boring af, but then the game is on. Points for the lower class might be a bit hard. RB/Merc and Mclaren/Ferrari are clearly the 1/2 and 3/4 best teams, which leaves only 2 spots up for grabs barring retirements. Alpine/AT/AM also seem to be a bit ahead of williams/Alfa, and Haas is nowhere. You pretty much have 6 teams fighting for 2 points paying positions right now. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
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